To the people who say they are going to give the networks a "heads up," I'm sure TiVo has already done that.

From my understanding, it is the network that has the opportunity to buy, from TiVo, the right to put an iPreview over a commercial the network is airing, just like the iPreviews that exist today to promo future episodes of shows. If the network doesn't authorize it, it won't happen. Because the network is running the show, you can be sure you won't see a Pepsi overlay over a Coke commercial, or anything like that.

Of course, the network can tell its advertisers that they're free to negotiate with TiVo directly, instead. But there won't be any overlays unless authorized by the network and/or the advertiser of the real-time commercial. So, no need to alert their copyright attorneys.

The only things new here appears to be a) the iPreview may be bigger than before, and b) what happens when you press "thumbs up" will be different (your info will be sent to TiVo (probably after at least one confirmation screen), who will bring you further information later).

LOL You obviously don't read all the fine print in your credit card mailers either... or your phone service... you probably don't know this but your credit cards can up your interest rate even if you are late with a different creditor.

Terms of Service change all the time...

this article is also much less inflammatory and realistic sounding...

If this makes you as angry as it does me then I suggest you give Kimber a call and let her know. Here is here number from the Tivo website

Advertise on TiVo
Kimber Sterling
Phone: (408) 519-9396

The Intellectual Property Protection Bill is the real enemy here, not Tivo deciding that banner ads during commercial fast forwarding is a good idea. Right now, many DVDs are being made with previews that it is very difficult to skip through. Menu buttons and chapter buttons are disabled in software, leaving only the fast forward button to spare you the agony. Have business models come to this? Is it necessary for a DVD to have mandatory ads for other products of the movie company in order to be profitable? And three years from now, doesn't having a Shark Tale in the theaters clip on the Shrek 2 DVD seem a little dumb?

I'm amazed that this little provision of the bill is even up for discussion since the right for companies to bombard you with ads is hardly a civic duty. People have always had the right to speek and to ignore speech. Laws like this take away the latter, and I can't imagine it could survive a constitutional challenge. Unfortunately, it may come to that since Congress apparently seems to be in the back pocket of the media companies these days and the consumer electronics companies have not been able to lobby hard enough to stop it.

I'm sick of all advertising. Advertising has cropped up everywhere, all the clutter makes us rather numb to whatever they're selling, advertisers realize that but can't figure out a way to change their business so that they connect with us again. Desperate for our attention, they now are trying to force it on us. TiVo putting up banner ads, legislation being proposed that would make it ILLEGAL to fast forward through commercials on dvd's etc. Um, excuse me, I paid for that dvd, I shouldn't have to continually pay again and again by watching commercials.

The problem is with the whole industry. And I hope it will backfire on advertisers. If they pass legislation making it illegal to fast forward, I won't buy or rent anymore dvd's. Any advertiser that puts a banner ad up when i fast foward on TiVo, I will make special note NOT to buy that product or shop at that store. I don't care if it's GM, or Best Buy, or whatever. I can get what I want elsewhere.

And TiVo putting up the ads.....well if there's another DVR out there that doesn't force me to watch an ad, I'll be going with them

Do you not buy anything from any advertiser that has an add during shows that you watch?

Because, IT'S THE SAME F%$@*&G THING!

McCain is fighting H.R. 2391 -- and H.R. 4077 -- but Hatch is certainly a powerful guy. Utah isn't too far from Idaho. Maybe I should make a spot for him in my Tivo Pride Power bunker and give him a few ammo clips to defend our land from those pesky Communist FBI agents and the other non-Americans fouling up our pure Tivo land.

Or I could just voice my support for http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d108:h.r.00107:

The CEA still has some clout and its fighting words can be found here: http://www.ce.org/press_Room/press_...il.asp?id=10609

Plenty of room in my bunker for all loyalists.

_ITV

Everyone, just calm down. Count to 10. Deep Breath. Ok. You can now continue your rants and raves. They are actually really fun to read

TiVo loses its MoJo
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/1...vo_no_skipping/
By Andrew Orlowski in San Francisco
Published Thursday 18th November 2004 09:20 GMT

Time shifting DVR pioneer TiVo will soon display pop-up ads when users attempt to skip commercials, the LA Times reports today. TiVo owners will still be able to fast forward, but will be forced to watch a billboard style ad on screen.

It's the latest in a series of compromises that threaten to leave the highly-regarded company offering little more than a generic set-top box UI.
Click to Visit

Increasingly broadcasters are introducing restrictions on their programming. In recent weeks HBO announced that it will be locking down all its content to a specific device from next June, forbidding any copies to be made.

TiVo's jumped the gun, introducing similar copy controls on pay-per-view and VoD programming. TiVo general counsel Matthew Zinn defended the company's decision to incorporate potentially more restrictive DRM from his provider Macrovision, and acknowledged it was "a slippery slope".

"I think content owners are beginning to recognize that if you make things too restrictive, then consumers will find nonlegal ways to achieve what they want," he claimed. There's no evidence on offer to support this position, but plenty of evidence that, faced with ineffective political lobbying by the computer industry which has failed to alert an apathetic public, the freedom to copy material for personal use will disappear without too many objections.

Did TiVo ever stand a chance? Time shifting functionality, like many conventional computer innovations, turns out to be a feature of an existing product rather than a horizontal industry in itself (PodCasters, please note), and time shifting is now being built into newer TV sets. Nor were cable providers ever really likely to give control of something as strategic as the UI - and TiVo's is warmly regarded as the best - to a third party.

The company has an alliance with NetFlix to serve VoD to broadband-equipped households, and there's plenty of scope for this alliance to prosper. It might rue that with more effective lobbying from the computer industry, or digital rights advocates, it might have made good on its initial promise.

I'm not sure a Tivo employee has read all the way to page 13. I've got two comcast HD boxes and two Tivos. The Tivo's are now second class DVR's because they only record SD programs. If I no longer can easily fast forward through commericals, they will go in the closet and I will cancel my two Tivo accounts.

Me thinks a cyber petition should be generated and sent to the powers that be at TiVo. This is str8 up b.s. I don't want ads...that is why I pay $12.95...for convenience to program my TiVo automatically so I can ff through the ads. Who is a good writer? Sign me up AGAINST this!

The issue of commercial skipping is also playing out on Capitol Hill.

The Senate is expected to vote on the Intellectual Property Protection bill in this lame-duck session. The bill has a provision to prohibit technology that skips commercials during a DVD or televised movie; opponents, including advocacy group Public Knowledge, say the provision would make it a crime to fast-forward through a commercial.

In criticizing the bill last month, Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., said: "Do we really expect to throw people in jail in 2004 for behavior they've been engaged in for more than a quarter century?"
--------------------------------------------------------

This is indeed worse than anything Tivo is working on. Jail for missing a commercial msg? Has it come to this? The legislative market, yes its a market alas, can only pass these kinds of laws that ONLY benefit private interests when there is no public AWARENESS or dialogue. You better speak up. Imagine going from you can't skip commercials to you can't skip the federal msg of the day to "George W Bush is God!" to 'How many fingers do you see Winston?'

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-v...threadid=206536

They're coming out of the woodwork...

One characteristic all trolls share - the ability to make themselves look "important" and anonymous at the same time. They threaten "action", anything from starting a class action lawsuit (one word) to clogging the phone lines of TiVo executives.

Well, if this ticks you off enough, vote with your feet. There's this neat little Web site called "eBay"...maybe you've heard of it. You won't get retail value on your TiVo box, but I'm sure there's a lively market for them, and you'll get at least a good chunk of your money back if your box is in good shape.

I'd particularly be interested if our HD TiVo owner/troll here decided to do that...and then he finds out that these banner ads aren't slated to be pushed out to DirecTV users.

that's the best part...

Did you read the article?

Obviously not.

Hmmm - if mentioning the law implies an invocation, then I suspect you just broke Godwin's Law! Congratulations!

I think you need someone who can do better reading first. Please point to the part in the subscription service that said it was for FF commercials. If that is what you wanted a VCR can do that. granted you said it was for the convenience of scheduling recordings automatically but still there was no talk of FF commercials. Still I will give you this one because

Now here is what seems to be the bigger challenge - where in this icon or ad displaying news did you find that you can not FF through any part of a TiVo recording ?? You will watch the TiVo exactly the same as before except to notice an extra static image now and then during commercials on the recording.

I'm just amazed at how upset people are getting about this. Here's another vote for BFD. I'm one of those people who see being able to FF through commercials as a nice feature, but not the primary reason I bought my Tivo. Maybe it's heresy to say this here, but I don't always FF through commercials. Sometimes I forget, and sometimes I'm just doing other stuff. But I still manage to ingore the commercials if they dont' interest me. I don't see the difference between what Tivo is proposing, and those stupid little bottom of the screen animations that advertise one show while I'm watching another. Sure, it's annoying, but I've learned to ignore them too.

As far as Tivo telling the advertisers what I'm watching, I'm ok with that too. The Nielsens don't give a damn about what gets watched in my household. Maybe if Tivo tells them what I'm watching I'll get to see more of the stuff I like and less of the crap that the Nielsen families seem to love.

If Tivo (or any other service) only made changes that were okay with 100% of their users, nothing would ever change...for the better or the worse. Any change - even those that most people would consider insignificant - will irritate some users. No way around that.

I agree with those who label this a non-issue.

Of course, knowing Coffee House, it won't do an ounce of good...

Yes, I'm glad I've stuck with the Series 1 SAT-T60. Our children at our house are getting a real education in marketing, and about advertising generally, because (or in spite of) our TIVO. Does TIVO realize we actually dissect advertisements at our house?!
May we have budding advertising execs in our midst. And, to actually be able to replay a funny or outrageous ad is something TIVO, the advertisers and Madison Ave should all be thrilled to hear - and they do read our posts! So we don't always skip ads, and I'd bet this is true for most people with TIVO.
How many of us can honestly claim, when we signed up for TIVO, that we'd didn't suspect that TIVO would be an evolving PRODUCT. This is the same as, and yet distinct from a SERVICE. Folks, this is America. Services and products are driven by market forces, so some of us, me included, are going to have to adapt. Mr. Murdoch and others do survey the field and value input (no, I don't work for him or any of his operating companies) from people like us, just as they mine the hackers forums and other sources to refine and adapt their product and services.
But that we could all spend as much time suggesting improvements to TIVO as there are many software driven solutions being cooked up across the country that could leave the competition to TIVO in the dust and improve that item that, yes, has improved my quality of life.

I record Letterman m-f. There are three other shows during various times of the day that I record m-f. (I just watched a Letterman show from last May that I had saved---I watch some entirely---some for a specific interview). My vcr is programmed on a weekly basis for a lot of shows---there is about one night a week where something special is scheduled that I must program. I also have a dvd recorder with an 80 gig hard drive---and I use a vcr on Tuesday night at nine, because I have Law and Order on the dvd, Amy on the tivo and nypd on the vcr, which I can later dub to the dvd or the tivo.

Apparently there is a feature on the tivo you have not figured out how to use. If I want to go to a nine oclock show from 7, I click fast forward once, and then while it is fast forwarding at the slowest rate, the little button below fast forward will move it to 7:30, then 8, nice neat 30 minute jumps. To go from 7 to 9 in a 3 hour block takes 1 click on fast forward, 4 clicks on the button below it. (there is a similar technique for moving in 15 minute jumps)

I can record anything I want, any time I want. Recording and playing on the tivo is still far superior to the two backup recorders.

Turn on CNBC right now (2:30 EST) they are about to do a thing titles

"commericals on tivo, so now whats the point?"

quick!

WTF ARE POP-UP ADS!!!!!!

Screw this, i going to best buys and throwing my 3 year tivo at them.

Just to recap, as this is a long thread (and we've had people admit they haven't read the entire discussion)...

Contrary to what a quick skim might suggest, TiVo is not removing fast forward. You can still zip through your program, same as before.

The tags mentioned in the article exist today, and have been in use for a couple of years now (including during fast forward).

Rather than generic thumbs-up tags, the new tags can be larger, and display both branding and new options for interactivity (contests, surveys, etc).

Nothing is full screen, nothing blocks your ability to control your television.

The displayed tags are tied to the broadcast commercial. No Coke ads over Pepsi commercials. The tags are only there if the advertiser or broadcaster includes them in the broadcast.

There's no concept of a 'pause ad', like the competition had (or has?).

TiVo does not know, or report, what you are watching, to anyone. TiVo subscribers, as a population, can be measured, but no individual information is available. And, if aggregate and anonymous information is still not something you're comfortable with, you have the option to opt out of data collection altogether.

Those who feel that they've been 'sold out', I can understand that, particularly if it's based on what you read in the press yesterday. If I thought a product I loved was being thrashed, I'd be upset as well. That's simply not the case here. The changes are small, and can be very useful.

Admittedly, it would be much easier to just plaster advertisements all over the guide, or the other in-your-face ads our competitors have done. We've always taken a more careful approach to this topic at TiVo. I believe we've done well to date in striking a balance between making advertising non-intrusive and yet more useful.

Either way, we appreciate your opinions on the subject.

Cheers,
Pony

May you live long and prosper