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Old 05-02-2001, 03:37 PM   #1 (Print)
xneilj
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Note Digital Cable support (Pace 4000 series)

This thread is intended for the discussion of TiVo's support for the Pace 4000 series Digital Cable boxes in Original NTL areas (not ex Cable & Wireless or Telewest areas). You can tell which model you have by examining the sticker underneath your set top box.

OzSat edit: NTL original digital areas have Sky News on channel 121 - NTL ex-C&W digital areas (also known as CoCo regions) have Sky News on channel 120

If you wish to find out about support for other Digital Cable boxes then see one of these alternative threads:

This thread for discussion of Pace 1000 series.

This thread for discussion of Pace 2000 series.

This thread for discussion of Pace 4000 series in ex-C&W or Telewest areas.

Last edited by ozsat : 12-30-2002 at 06:17 AM.
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Old 05-03-2001, 06:37 AM   #2 (Print)
GHF
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Now we have our very own thread (an excellent idea - thanks xneilj) could someone put us in the picture as to the current state of affairs with the 4000 series box. Having read the previous thread, I'm now trying to get my box going with Tivo. As I understand it you have to;

1. Set up Tivo with a Digital Terrestrial Cable box, choosing NTL as the provider and Pace as the STB manufacturer (fairly obvious).
2. Turn off the front IR blaster and use the control cable.
3. Use one of the IR emitters, rather than both.
4. Put something in between the IR emitter and STB IR receiver so that the Tivo remote does not interfere directly with the STB.

Does this sound correct? So far I have completed step 1 successfully, but the rest does not work. If you do use 1 IR emitter, which one? Are they both the same? TIA.
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Old 05-03-2001, 07:56 AM   #3 (Print)
childe
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Just to preempt any confusion re STB numbering, the 4000 series of boxes currently in use are only available in NTL (and possibly old C&W) areas. I think they have a suffix N after the number (N for NTL presumably). Pace are developing another 4000 series box for use by Telewest some time later this year.

The 2 boxes are very definitely not the same. Telewest use only the 1000 series and just recently the 2000 series boxes.

------------------
Eric
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Old 05-03-2001, 10:01 AM   #4 (Print)
Richardr
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Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by GHF:
[B]
4. Put something in between the IR emitter and STB IR receiver so that the Tivo remote does not interfere directly with the STB.
B]</font>


This sounds wrong. What we did was put something around the STB IR receiver and the IR emitter, so that the STB could not pick up spurious signals from elsewhere, specifically the TIVO remote control codes.

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Old 05-03-2001, 11:47 AM   #5 (Print)
BrianHughes
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Ted

How are the codes progressing? Your last message to me indcated that I was having more problems than I should. Is there something I should be doing or should I just wait for another revision?

TIA
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Old 05-04-2001, 07:29 AM   #6 (Print)
pbar
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Question

I emailed Pace technical support and asked whether it's possible to get the IR input connector on the back of the box working. If we could get the TiVo controlling the Pace box over a wire, and preferably leave the Pace's front IR receiver working as well, then things would be much better.

The reply I got from Pace didn't seem particulalry clueful, but said that "They didn't think it was enabled by the NTL software", and I should talk to NTL.

Has anyone had any dealings with a technically competent person at NTL... i.e. is it worth wasting my time trying to explain the problem to them?
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Old 05-04-2001, 01:24 PM   #7 (Print)
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'NTL' and 'technically competent', you don't often see them mentioned in teh same sentance
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Old 05-10-2001, 05:44 AM   #8 (Print)
BrianHughes
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Arrow

Its gone very quiet on the 4000 series code front. I hope we don't have to wait weeks for Ted to come back and "kick some ass" - Come back soon Ted - we miss you
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Old 05-10-2001, 06:03 AM   #9 (Print)
RobScreene
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Hi,
I have just tried to get my TiVo working with some limited success with a Pace DI4001N from NTL. I was previously using it with ONdigital.

I need some help to get the channel change working. I'm sure I read a few people had it working for suggestions.

Here's what I did to get this far with some success...

1. I repeated guided setup.
2. I entered my postcode as RG6 and chose NTL Thames Valley
3. I selected BASIC as the packege, as the others seem to have (A) for analog.

4. The download and indexing probably took a few hours.

5. I then tried the fast/medium/slow variations of IR Code 20000, Code 20001, and Code 30.
6. The IR blaster has been placed in-front, to the left, right and slightly boxed in.
7. I have tried blaster on and off, leadinbg digitas and enter on/off.
8. I tried restarting TiVo.

My TiVo reports:
Software version 1.5.2-100-023
Ir Database version: 87

On the plus-side the channel line-up and numbers look correct, 101 for BBC1, etc. The RGB scart feed looks clean too, no blocking-up like with ONdigital.

Any help or suggestions appreciated. Was it Beta IR codes some people were using?

Please help as I can't bring myself to go back through guided setup to return to TiVo using ONdigital!

thanks and regards,
Rob.

[This message has been edited by RobScreene (edited 05-10-2001).]
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Old 05-10-2001, 10:42 AM   #10 (Print)
GHF
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Hi RobScreene, I think you are in the same position as the rest of us using the Pace 4000 series boxes. This seems to be as far as anyone has got at the moment. There were reports of a few people getting the box to change channels but they seem to have dried up.

I think we may have to wiat until Tivo_Ted comes back from meternity leave for any further progress! Congratulations Tivo_Ted.
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Old 05-10-2001, 02:23 PM   #11 (Print)
BrianHughes
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Quote:
Originally posted by GHF:
I think we may have to wiat until Tivo_Ted comes back from meternity leave for any further progress!


I hope you meant "paternity leave" or is Ted not telling us something - New conspiracy theory brews.
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Old 05-10-2001, 03:09 PM   #12 (Print)
whitecell
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I am interested in getting a TiVO but have a Pace 4000 STB so won't get full functionality with Digital Cable. Since we watch mostly mainstream channels available on analogue terrestrial is it worth getting the TiVO and setting it up for analogue terrestrial initially, switching to Digital Cable when the Pace 4000 problems have been resolved?
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Old 05-10-2001, 05:22 PM   #13 (Print)
BrianHughes
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Well thats what I'm doing at the moment, but you can also record the digital channels by setting up manual recordings and programming the Cable box to switch channels. All the listings are there so it works very well like that. It even names your manual recordings correctly in the now playing list.

Plus the 4000 IR codes are partially released and work to some extent (some people report good control of the box). I'm only getting about 20% correct channel changes
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Old 05-10-2001, 06:27 PM   #14 (Print)
Marshy
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Whitecell, I found that TiVo would record more telly from UHF than I could sensibly have time to watch. Once the 4000 support comes on line fully I'm going to have a hard time watching all the stuff it records for me.

So, unless you're a /serious/ couch potato, I'd say go for it!
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Old 05-14-2001, 09:20 AM   #15 (Print)
RobScreene
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Good news. I have been using the beta TIVO codes now for about 4 days with my NTL DI4001N.

The channel changing works perfectly for me, all recordings and suggestions appear to have been recorded correctly.

The channel change is slightly quicker than I was getting with the Philips ONdigital box, but only just.

I vote the best codes get released.

Setup - IR blaster off. NTL box is behind the telly, so I haven't worried about shielding it from the TiVo remote (I'm actually using a Marantz RC2000 programmable to work as the TiVo remote).

Here's the placement of the IR control cable sender:
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/rob.sc...01NwithTIVO.JPG

Good luck to anyone else working with this set-up.
best regards,
Rob.
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Old 05-14-2001, 10:08 AM   #16 (Print)
whitecell
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Quote:
Originally posted by RobScreene:
Good news. I have been using the beta TIVO codes now for about 4 days with my NTL DI4001N.

The channel changing works perfectly for me, all recordings and suggestions appear to have been recorded correctly.

The channel change is slightly quicker than I was getting with the Philips ONdigital box, but only just.

I vote the best codes get released.

Setup - IR blaster off. NTL box is behind the telly, so I haven't worried about shielding it from the TiVo remote (I'm actually using a Marantz RC2000 programmable to work as the TiVo remote).

Here's the placement of the IR control cable sender:


Thanks for this encouraging news.

Can I just clarify a few things.

-Is any additional hardware/adaptor/dongel needed as seems to be the case for the PACE1000 series STBs?

-My control cable has two IR emitters. Is it important to place only one of these in front of the SRB?
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Old 05-14-2001, 10:27 AM   #17 (Print)
GHF
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You don't need a dongle for the 4000 series boxes. It's only needed for the 1000 series STB officially but I think a few people have tried it with the 2000 series STB's.

I raised the question earlier in the thread about only one IR emmitter being required but no-one answered it specifically. I don't know why there are 2 emitters. Maybe it's to give better coverage. Is there any difference between the two? Which one should you use?

Also, what are the beta Tivo IR codes? Are these the ones in use in release 87 of the IR database?
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Old 05-14-2001, 10:42 AM   #18 (Print)
xneilj
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There are two emitters so that TiVo can control more than one set top box (although this isn't supported in the UK yet). Both send the same IR signals and the reason you're advised to hide one is just in case using both together causes double digits/other IR problems (although I don't know if this ever actually happens in practice).

Neil.

------------------
See the TiVo UK FAQ at http://www.tivoukfaq.com

[This message has been edited by xneilj (edited 05-14-2001).]
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Old 05-14-2001, 11:19 AM   #19 (Print)
BrianHughes
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Quote:
Originally posted by RobScreene:
The channel changing works perfectly for me, all recordings and suggestions appear to have been recorded correctly.

The channel change is slightly quicker than I was getting with the Philips ONdigital box, but only just.


I'm glad its working well for you. I notice that your stb is set to channel 144. Are double digits working for you? They won't work at all for me.

What speed are you using? fast, medium or slow?

Thanks for the pics, my IR sender is in the same place so at least I know thats not my problem.
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Old 05-14-2001, 01:30 PM   #20 (Print)
RobScreene
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No extra hardware, no dongle adapter.

It's exactly the same way I had it set-up to work with the Philips ONdigital, shown below by-the-way, it's unused at present. We'll probably use it when there's something on non-terrestrial while TiVo is recording using the digitl cable box.

The other IR control cable emmiter is on the floor, way out of sight of the NTL box.

TiVo settings reports:
Software version 1.5.2-100-023
Ir Database version: 87

I think I was initially conservative and used Slow/Medium.
I just re-set it to fast to re-cheack. This appears to works just fine too.

One leading Zero '01'
Enter after chanel change
Internal Blaster OFF

Double digits appear to work, I specifically just re-tested 144 (E4) and 300 (UK Gold) and they are fine, even on fast.

I just went to the NTL box to take a picture of the underside and noticed our Kittens must have recently moved the IR control cable sender and the change still was working fine from this obscure angle, so I don't think the NTL box is very directional, unless the magnolia walls are doing something wonderful!
e.g.
<A HREF="http://homepage.ntlworld.com/rob.screene/NTLPaceDI4001NwithTIVO2.JPG" TARGET=_blank></A>

Brian, perhaps it's because this NTL box is brand new? I wonder if there's any internal revisions gone on? Here's the underside:
<A HREF="http://homepage.ntlworld.com/rob.screene/NTLPaceDI4001Nunder.JPG" TARGET=_blank></A>

regards,
Rob.

[This message has been edited by RobScreene (edited 05-14-2001).]

[This message has been edited by RobScreene (edited 05-14-2001).]
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Old 05-14-2001, 03:18 PM   #21 (Print)
BrianHughes
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Well, I am one happy bunny! Suddenly everything is working like a dream.

First of all I tried to do a test call as you will know there have been 'phone troubles and last nights daily call didn't work. This failed with "phone busy" - progress I thought, better than "phone not answered" so I did it again and the Tivo rebooted - whoops. It came up with the dreaded "green screen." I've never seen this before but I have heard about it. It says "don't turn off your Tivo for 3 hours" - Major panic time.

However now I've got some time to kill so I looked under the PACE stb to see the details and the PACE part number does appear to be earlier than Rob's (ending 7710 - Rob's is 7725). However while doing this I had to unplug the stb. When I powered it up it did a software download. After about 10 mins or so I had pretty new banners and guide.

I switched back to Tivo, this was about 20 mins after the green screen appeared. It was back again - Thank God.

Guess what, now my Tivo controls my Pace stb beautifully!

So it was either the fix that Tivo did on itself or the software download from NTL but it's working - yippee.

Thanks Rob for your help in triggering this chain of events (whatever it actually was)

I've now built a mini fort around the Pace IR detector so that I can still see the channel number. I took off the plastic window and used black insulating tape. The detectors are 2 violet coloured thing that look like LEDS to the top right of the display. I was able to replace the cover with the Tivo IR control inside.

I'm able to use the fast code too so it's nice and responsive.

[This message has been edited by BrianHughes (edited 05-14-2001).]
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Old 05-14-2001, 04:58 PM   #22 (Print)
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yep its working for me too

I have swapped to the setup above (one leading zero, send ENTER after)

Fantastic!

Dave
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Old 05-14-2001, 06:23 PM   #23 (Print)
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This is all good news for me I'm having an extra digital cable box installed on Tuesday and will hook up my Tivo to it and try it out.
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Old 05-14-2001, 07:49 PM   #24 (Print)
gblades
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My pace box has also been updated but I still quite often loose the first digit when the Tivo tries to change channel.

I have leading digits set to '001' but this should not make any difference as all the channel numbers are &gt;100 anyway.
I have enter after channel change turned off but I can't see this making any difference if I change it.

I'll do a few tests when I get home later today.
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Old 05-14-2001, 08:32 PM   #25 (Print)
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The party line from the TiVO helpline is still that Pace4000 STBs should not work.

Top suspect must be that there has been a very recent enabling software update to TiVO and/or NTL STBs.

Three questions:
1. Do we just sit and wait for an update or can one force it somehow?
2. For those that have it working, which IR codes did you select?
3. Is it still necessary to screen the STB IR receiver from the TiVO remote?

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Old 05-15-2001, 12:35 AM   #26 (Print)
gblades
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The Pace codes have not been released so Tivo Support are correctly saying it is not yet supported.

If you wish to test the development codes then email Tivo_Ted and he will send you instructions on how to use the test codes. He has asked that we don't tell others ourselves.

The IR code database has been at version 87 for a couple of weeks so nothing has recently changed on the Tivo.
Possibly the newer 5.14 Pace software has improved things for people.
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Old 05-15-2001, 03:41 AM   #27 (Print)
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How do you check what Pace softeare version you have?
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Old 05-15-2001, 04:45 AM   #28 (Print)
BrianHughes
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Big Grin

Quote:
Originally posted by gblades:
My pace box has also been updated but I still quite often loose the first digit when the Tivo tries to change channel.


Yes mine does that too, that's why I built the "fort" so that the Pace box can only see the IR from the Tivo and doesn't get confused with IR meant only for the Tivo. Once that was done the first digit problem disapeared.
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Old 05-15-2001, 09:23 PM   #29 (Print)
gblades
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Quote:
Originally posted by GHF:
How do you check what Pace softeare version you have?


Press the help button and it's displayed in the bottom right hand corner.

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Old 05-15-2001, 09:28 PM   #30 (Print)
gblades
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I don't think a fort will help because it happens even during timer recordings when there is no other IR source to cause interferance (I don't even use low energy lights). If it was interferance then I would not expect it to just effect the first digit.
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