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Old 04-26-2002, 04:21 PM   #1 (Print)
GarySargent
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This thread is intended for the discussion of TiVo's support for the Pace 4000 series Digital Cable boxes in ex Cable & Wireless or Telewest areas (not Original NTL areas). You can tell which model you have by examining the sticker underneath your set top box.

OzSat edit: NTL original digital areas have Sky News on channel 121 - NTL ex-C&W digital areas (also known as CoCo regions) have Sky News on channel 120

If you wish to find out about support for other Digital Cable boxes then see one of these alternative threads:

This thread for discussion of Pace 1000 series.

This thread for discussion of Pace 2000 series.

This thread for discussion of Pace 4000 series in Original NTL areas.

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Last edited by ozsat : 12-30-2002 at 06:16 AM.
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Old 09-28-2002, 12:38 PM   #2 (Print)
dogo
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Pace 4000 and Tivo

After upgrading my Tivo to 120 Gigs, I have found that I am no longer able to change channels correct heres what happens

If Im on channel 5 and want to change to Channel 52 Tivo will only enter 5, the LED of front of the NTL box does flash twice? Then I go to change channel again, it remembers the 2 so if I pick channel 26 I will end up on channel 6. if that make sense.. I have replaced the old drive back in.. just to check but that now has the same faultK The only other thing that changed was Im now on NTL new software.. is it this at fault or my Tivo.. I like to think its the NTL Box


Any ideas.. cause the TIVO is really crap with out the channel changing

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Old 09-28-2002, 12:41 PM   #3 (Print)
Robert S
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Which channel is Sky News on in your area?

Which STB codes are you using?

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Old 09-28-2002, 12:53 PM   #4 (Print)
dogo
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Hi Sky new is on 120

and currently using 109 (fast) Seems to be the best.. or it did

Tried using 120 but never worked

Dogo

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Old 09-28-2002, 01:15 PM   #5 (Print)
Robert S
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I think you need a 'dongle' to control a 4000 in your area. Call CS to confirm this and buy one from them.

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Old 09-28-2002, 01:17 PM   #6 (Print)
dogo
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are you sure.. it never need it!
worked fine till this new upgrade from ntl?

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Old 09-28-2002, 01:24 PM   #7 (Print)
Robert S
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Well, exactly. IR control is one of the things the software does, so it's not too surprising if changing the software changes IR.

There is an official thread on the Pace 4000 if you want to wade through it. CS should be able to give you a definite answer quite quickly.

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Old 09-28-2002, 02:59 PM   #8 (Print)
dogo
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Hi Robert

Spoke to Tivo CS they seem to think its a problem with the NTL Box.. and i don't need a "dongle" they will pass it on Monday to the Tech people? and good old NTL said nowt wrong with there equipment.. I leave it for a few days to see if any one from the techs support step forward. if not keep a look out one cheap Tivo coming up 4 sale.. cant see the use for it otherwise..

Again thanks for the help
Dogo

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Old 09-28-2002, 06:10 PM   #9 (Print)
GarySargent
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Channel 52? That doesn't sound like a Pace 4000 in an Original NTL area - channels start at 101 - no two digit channels.

Sounds like you are in the NTL ex C&W area - think you'll need a dongle for that.

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Old 09-28-2002, 08:07 PM   #10 (Print)
Robert S
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Sky News is 121 in original NTL areas (apparently this is a good way to tell if you're in an original NTl area or not), hence the question.

I thought it was that dongle's were not required for 4000's in original NTL areas, but were required for them outside - his experience seems consistent with that (my 4000 is quite happy without a dongle), so why would CS say different?

Is it worth him getting a dongle anyway? It doesn't sound as if either the TiVo or the decoder is faulty.

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Old 09-29-2002, 03:17 PM   #11 (Print)
dogo
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Thanks guy for the reply!

If i was to buy a dongle will it solve my problems.. regardless of what software is on the NTL box

Dogo

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Old 09-29-2002, 03:42 PM   #12 (Print)
Robert S
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Gary and I think it will and don't understand CS's suggestion that there's something wrong with your decoder.

We can't guarantee that the dongle will fix your problem, but you might want to talk to someone different at CS and see if you get a different answer.

Did you read the official thread I linked (I didn't!). Your answer is probably in there somewhere.

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Old 09-30-2002, 08:13 AM   #13 (Print)
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At last, somebody with the same problem as me! I'm in an NTL (ex C&W) area and just recently upgraded to digital. I also have a Pace 4000 box (DI4000-N). I have been unable to change channels correctly since having it installed. The box either misses digits, remembers digits from the previous change or just ignores them all together. I've tried all the possible fixes of siting of the wands, taping them up, shielding the STB from possible external IR, different IR codes, etc etc and all to no avail.

In a last ditch effort to get it working I ordered and tried the dongle (even though TiVo CS didn't think I would need one) and that didn't work at all i.e. not a single flash on the IR receptor on the STB. So now, I am stuck with manually setting reminders on the STB, which is a real PITB!

Please help anybody!
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Old 09-30-2002, 12:53 PM   #14 (Print)
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What IR codes are you using?

Did you use code 20004 with the adaptor? Also try the adaptor again - it is VERY sensitive to positioning.

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Old 09-30-2002, 02:24 PM   #15 (Print)
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I am using 20020 at the moment without the dongle. The IR receptor on the STB does flash when digits are sent but not consistently. Just to confirm my box is a DI4000-N and running code release P3.56.15d.CR3.

I tried for a couple of hours with the dongle (using 20004 and the other codes that were listed with the instructions) but never got the IR receptor to flash once. It's now on its way back to Sky.

Anything else to try? This is very frustrating
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Old 09-30-2002, 03:03 PM   #16 (Print)
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Just to add to fozzie comments.. I'm glad I'm not the only one with these problems. and by set top box is running the same version of software... still waiting for tivo to get back to me :-(

dogo

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Old 09-30-2002, 05:22 PM   #17 (Print)
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It sounds as if you have both got the new version of ntl's software (CR3 in ex-C&W areas), which is currently being rolled out.

This may have done something to the IR codes (didn't a Telewest upgrade do something similar?).

Are there any other ntl ex-C&W users with a 4000 series box, and the CR3 software, whose set up is still working?
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Old 10-01-2002, 03:06 PM   #18 (Print)
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I'm also in an ex-C&W (Nynex) area in Bournemouth and I'm experiencing exactly the same problems with my 4000 STB. It started to go wrong 2 or 3 weeks ago with a software change from NTL. CS deny having heard of the problem and say I'm unique. They are lying obviously. What I can't get through to the morons at CS is that my NTL remote works perfectly. The TIVO is supposed to emulate the remote. It obviously doesn't or it would work. Therefore the fault must lie with TIVO. They even came up with the fatuous sugestion that I should video the IR with a digital camcorder to prove that TIVO was sending channel change codes.
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Old 10-01-2002, 03:15 PM   #19 (Print)
Robert S
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The camcorder trick isn't entirely fatuous. The sensor on a camcorder is sensitive to the near-IR used by the remote controls and is a good test that the blaster is generating a signal. (TiVo's IR blaster setup is quite complicated with both software and hardware variations with the wands and internal blaster - I expect they find getting people to check with their camcorders quite helpful).

Anyway, as you say, in your case and the others, this is the software on the decoder and not a problem with your TiVo.

I just hope Gary and/or TiVo can figure it out before CR3 reaches the original ntl areas!

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Old 10-01-2002, 03:36 PM   #20 (Print)
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OK I'll dig out the camcorder! I'm new to this - who's Gary? What annoys me is the way CS deny everything when it's obviously a not uncommon issue.
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Old 10-01-2002, 03:52 PM   #21 (Print)
Robert S
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If the failure coincided with the CR3 upgrade and you haven't been fiddling with your TiVo's IR setup the camcorder test probably won't tell you anything useful. I just wanted to point out that the test ins't as meaningless as you thought.

And Gary? Sargent? He's one of the UK mods and the guy you have to thank that your TiVo /ever/ worked with your 4000, even if they've gone and broken it now.

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Old 10-01-2002, 03:57 PM   #22 (Print)
Fozzie
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I've definitely already reported this problem with TiVo CS (who also said to me that they didn't know of anyone else with this problem). I shall be chasing them up again tomorrow.

I only had my Digital TV installed a couple of weeks ago and so the STB picked up the CR3 upgrade straight away and so I've never had channel changing with the 4000 STB working

I'm surprised that we are getting the symptoms that we are, due to a software upgrade. Obviously the STBs remote hasn't changed and so it outputs the same signals as before the update. The only change must be the way that the STB decodes them?!

I'm aware of the problem with the Telewest boxes when they were upgraded but wasn't that a switch between IR standards (or something like that) thus necessitating the dongle? As I posted earlier, I have tried a dongle and never got the IR receptor on the STB to flash once, so that would seem to rule out the Telewest scenario (unless of course my dongle was faulty!). But I think I'm right in thinking that this isn't the problem, since the TiVo IR wand does cause the STB IR receptor to flash, albeit causing random channel changes.

If new IR codes are need, then how do we go about getting them implemented? Gary - fancy a weekend down at the Costa del Sol of the south coast? I can recommend an excellent value (free) hostelry with as much beer as you can drink
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Old 10-01-2002, 04:16 PM   #23 (Print)
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Many thanks for all the info. One more pester: Do you know of any way we can be sure that someone is actually looking into this problem? And how can we get updates on progress - if any?
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Old 10-01-2002, 05:14 PM   #24 (Print)
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I've actually just been on the phone to a very helpfull lady at TiVo CS who is going to escalate the problem up to engineering support (in the US?) She also found a note that another customer (in the TW or TN area?) also with the CR3 update, is also having the same problems and that was escalated to engineering support on 28th Sep.

Hopefully if everybody that has this problem does report it to TiVo CS it will be resolved as a matter of urgency. These things normally take more than a day or two to sort out but I have every faith in TiVo. In the meantime, it's back to daily browsing of the To Do List and manual entering of reminders into the STB
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Old 10-02-2002, 03:25 AM   #25 (Print)
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There is little I can do to help at the moment as I don't have the new software - being in an NTL original area.

The IR codes are different to most boxes. The Pace 4000 uses a special bit in the IR waveform which alternates each keypress, so if you press the "1" key on your original remote repeatedly you get pattern X, then Y, then X again etc.

This causes problems as TiVo can not handle these dual patterns - nor can most learning remotes (including the Pronto).

To circumvent this the current TiVo codes output two waveforms for each real digit: the right arrow key, followed by the digit. So if you change to channel 101 TiVo will send: right, 1, right, 0, right, 1. The right arrow key serves to reset this alternating digit to a known state.

The delays between the right arrow and the digit are hard coded - they have to be. Slow/medium/fast does not affect them.

They have been and always will be very suseptible to software changes. The delays might need tweeking, or right arrow might now do something odd (try my example sequence above with your original remote).

I hope this explains some of the difficulties in controlling this box and explains what some of you may be seeing. Unfortunately such problems are difficult for TiVo to deal with being based in the US with no access to a cable box (the box only works when connected to a live NTL feed).

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Old 10-02-2002, 04:52 AM   #26 (Print)
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Thanks Gary. I had read about that in previous discussions and so one of the first things I tried was to use that sequence of key presses on the STB remote. This still seems to work fine.

Obviously the offer of free board and lodging & beer wasn't enough to get you down here. How about one week a year for the next five years - consider it as a sort of free time share type thing

(Could I also ask that we keep this thread out of the main Pace 4000 one for the time being at least, because it is a 'new' problem and I wouldn't like to see it getting lost. Thanks.)

Dave
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Old 10-02-2002, 06:43 AM   #27 (Print)
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I was planning on keeping this thread as is and merging it back to the main thread later.

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Old 10-03-2002, 03:35 PM   #28 (Print)
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I've just had the CR3 NTL upgrade and as a result my TiVo has stopped working with my Pace 4000 series box.

Spoke to CS today and they are going to pass the problem onto TiVo, so hopefully we'll have a new code soon.

TB
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Old 10-03-2002, 03:45 PM   #29 (Print)
mouseymousey
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Its quite amusing that shortly after NTL start promoting TiVo their STBs stop working with it.

Its also quite amusing that for once I dont want the new version of some software. I couldnt wait for TiVo 2.5.5 but Im dreading getting CR3 on my Pace 4000
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Old 10-03-2002, 04:57 PM   #30 (Print)
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Ho ho indeed The time I save by being able to watch what I want, when I want plus the ability to skip through ads is now taken up by manually setting the STB every day! Boo.........
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