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Old 04-03-2004, 12:28 PM   #1 (Print)
iandrysdale
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More Intelligent Season Passes, Please!

I find that season passes, even after clicking first run shows only, can be very, very blind about what is recorded.

Thre examples
1) Season Pass to Saturday Night Live. In addition to recording the new SNL each Saturday night, it records the one or two additional, older SNL's that my NBC station runs each Saturday night. I work around this with a manual record, but, since these old shows even have a date- often several years ago- shouldn't there be a way to avoid these old shows and keep my Tivo from recording these old shows at the expense of something new?
2) Capital Gang, other CNN shows. Why does the same show, which runs 3 - 4 times in a weekend, have to be recorded over and over, displacing other recording? The same holds true for Autoweek- same episode is recorded over and over all week, taking up recording time.
3) Cartoon problems- I would like to have one newish Blues Clues available for my kids all the time. Unfortunately, Blues Clues runs 40+ times a week (on the same channel.) The Tivo is constantly recording Blues Clues, often the same episode.

There should be ways around these problems, maybe a record this show once a day / once a week option? The first run only option does not fix the issue. The SNL problem is bizarre. Thanks for your help.

PS I love Tivo and will buy the HDTivo / DTV once available. I have a Sony T60 Tivo today.

Thanks!
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Old 04-03-2004, 08:01 PM   #2 (Print)
Dennis Wilkinson
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Re: More Intelligent Season Passes, Please!

Quote:
Originally posted by iandrysdale
1) Season Pass to Saturday Night Live. In addition to recording the new SNL each Saturday night, it records the one or two additional, older SNL's that my NBC station runs each Saturday night. I work around this with a manual record, but, since these old shows even have a date- often several years ago- shouldn't there be a way to avoid these old shows and keep my Tivo from recording these old shows at the expense of something new?


Not sure what's happening there -- if the Season Pass is set to record "first run only" (as you said you'd tried) the other episodes shouldn't be being recorded, since it sounds as if they have correct guide data.

If the guide data is good (different for each showing and with an original air date in the info,) and you have your Season Pass set to record first run only, this sounds like a bug.

Quote:
2) Capital Gang, other CNN shows. Why does the same show, which runs 3 - 4 times in a weekend, have to be recorded over and over, displacing other recording? The same holds true for Autoweek- same episode is recorded over and over all week, taking up recording time.


That's a guide data issue -- if CNN isn't providing useful guide data, the TiVo can't know whether the show is new or a repeat, and will "play it safe" and record it anyway (since it could be new.) If you do a search for "Daily Show" you'll probably find more discussion about this kind of issue than you'd ever want to read.

Short answer is to use a manual recording, and complain to CNN and/or Tribune about the lack of accurate guide data. Not ideal, but until either correct guide data shows up or TiVo comes up with a clever workaround that's probably the easiest fix.

Quote:
3) Cartoon problems- I would like to have one newish Blues Clues available for my kids all the time. Unfortunately, Blues Clues runs 40+ times a week (on the same channel.) The Tivo is constantly recording Blues Clues, often the same episode.


The same episode thing is probably a guide data thing, but you could set your Blues Clues season pass to "keep at most 1 episode" and "keep until I delete" -- this would mean it would record one episode, then not record another one until you delete it (which you'd presumably do after it had been watched.) If space isn't an issue, you might want to keep more than 1 episode around (2 or 3) so that you really will have at least one episode around most/all of the time.

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Old 04-03-2004, 08:06 PM   #3 (Print)
iandrysdale
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Thanks, I'll try out your tips!


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Old 04-16-2004, 08:16 PM   #4 (Print)
ccwf
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If I recall correctly, some SNL archive episodes have original air dates for the episode, but others don't.
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Old 04-19-2004, 06:06 AM   #5 (Print)
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I wonder whether there would be any benefit to tivo if the community collected information on how much of the guide data is incorrect.

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Old 04-19-2004, 05:55 PM   #6 (Print)
martinp13
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I doubt it... it's well known on this forum that Comedy Central is a big offender, and people have complained, but nothing has ever been done about it. Even worse, sometimes they fill in some data, sometimes they don't.

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Old 04-20-2004, 07:11 AM   #7 (Print)
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That's too bad. I have always wished for a way to go in and edit the data on my tivo. Sometimes
the data is incomplete - just last week the AMC or TCM data caused me to record Samson and Delila
instead of The Maltese Falcon.

However, if Tivo continues to treat this as a trivial problem, then they are going to lose out to
cable systems and sat offerings with on demand programming. I notice that insight cable company
has expanded their on demand offerings beyond movies to cable series offerings.

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Old 04-20-2004, 08:45 AM   #8 (Print)
voripteth
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A simple solution that I wish TiVo would implement is giving the option of NOT recording a program if there is no guide data. Each season pass should have the option of doing this.

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Old 04-20-2004, 11:23 AM   #9 (Print)
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On SNL. I have noticed the very late night showing (Sunday morning) to show up on the To Do list when it is a week away but it disappears by the time the airing rolls around. Is it really recording?

The issue is that since there is no detailed data for the show when it first hits the guide, TiVo errs on the side of not missing the show (easier to delete an unwanted show than to go back in time to get one you wanted that was missed). The data gets more robust as show time nears and Tivo then knows it is a rerun.

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Old 05-12-2004, 05:09 PM   #10 (Print)
tgibbs
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any channel option

The main enhancement I would like to see to Season Passes is an option to record a show no matter what channel it is on. Currently, the only way to do this is to create a wish list.
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Old 05-13-2004, 06:10 AM   #11 (Print)
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Re: season pass vs wishlist

What features do season passes have that make them preferable over a wishlist item?

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Old 05-13-2004, 02:18 PM   #12 (Print)
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Quote:
originally posted by lverden
What features do season passes have that make them preferable over a wishlist item?
The one that occurs offhand, they are more selective about what they records. A while back I used the example of the movie Big (not because it is a good movie, but because it is an extreme case of the problem). If you set up a wishlist for Movies & "Big", there are about 1500 movies with the word Big in their title. Or going to shows, a wishlist for "Friends", there are a ton of shows where the word 'friends' occurs in the show or episode title. A season pass knows that you only want to record 'Friends' NBCs now finished comedy.

Now in both these cases you can use workarounds like including actors to narrow down the wishlists, but the point is a season pass only matches one series, a wishlist might be hard to make that accurate.
[And of course currently a season pass is channel specific and a wishlist isn't, but tgibbs was requesting that be changed]

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Old 05-15-2004, 07:08 AM   #13 (Print)
tgibbs
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Re: Re: season pass vs wishlist

Quote:
Originally posted by lvirden
What features do season passes have that make them preferable over a wishlist item?


The main one is that you do not have to re-enter, character by character, what the TiVo already knows: the name of the show. Not only is this a pain in the ass, but it is potentially subject to error. I'd far rather simply select an "Any channel" option on my Season Pass.
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Old 06-10-2004, 10:31 PM   #14 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by voripteth
A simple solution that I wish TiVo would implement is giving the option of NOT recording a program if there is no guide data. Each season pass should have the option of doing this.


Yes, that is the simplest way for Tivo to address this. It would solve the problem of filtering out the syndicated cable repeats that often have no guide data. A good example is "Monk". A cable channel has recently started running repeats with no guide data. Tivo erred on the side of caution and started recording them. Very lame.

The only work-around I found for this situation is to create a keyword wishlist using 2 of the generic guide description words as the keywords with a category of Drama/Crime Drama. Then set it to record and keep only one episiode. Then put this wishlist/season pass at a higher priority above the original season pass. This traps all the repeats with no guide data and keeps them from filling up the First Run season pass. I've also used this trick on the Simpsons.

It's a rather complicated attempt to fix what Tivo could do much more easily. Add an option to record First Run but ignore shows with no guide data. For the occasional new programs that run with no guide data, like "The Daily Show" simply turn the option off. Everybody wins.

Complaining about the missing guide data isn't the answer. Cable networks really don't care about accurate guide data. They know DVR users are probably skipping the commercials anyway.

Last edited by Tivolition : 06-12-2004 at 05:38 PM.
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Old 06-12-2004, 07:11 PM   #15 (Print)
richinct
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Note Season Pass Button

A season pass button on the remote would be useful. For example, if you are watching a show, you could press it to edit the settings of that season pass.

I also think adding a "category" to the season pass manager would allow for easier "batch" moving of different groups of shows. For example, I would put my season passes into these categories:
"Do Not Erase Until I've Viewed"
"Sports Keywords"
"Reality Junk"
"Favorite Actress Wishlists"
"Keyword Wishlists"
"Reruns"
"Misc."
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Old 06-12-2004, 07:17 PM   #16 (Print)
tgibbs
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tivolition
The only work-around I found for this situation is to create a keyword wishlist using 2 of the generic guide description words as the keywords with a category of Drama/Crime Drama. Then set it to record and keep only one episiode. Then put this wishlist/season pass at a higher priority above the original season pass. This traps all the repeats with no guide data and keeps them from filling up the First Run season pass. I've also used this trick on the Simpsons.


Why doesn't it also trap the real First Run show?
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Old 06-13-2004, 01:59 PM   #17 (Print)
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Quote:
Why doesn't it also trap the real First Run show?
Because (unless you are very unlucky) the keywords you choose from the generic description won't all be present in a normal description, so the wishlist won't match anything with full guide data.

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Old 06-14-2004, 07:21 AM   #18 (Print)
Aybara
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My suggestion would take a page from the Replay and I know it would help me out.

I record Stargate SG-1, which runs new every Friday. But the lovely SciFi channel runs like 5 episodes every Monday, as well as sometimes on other given days. Which, depending on where it is in my Season Pass list, means other things will get dropped due to this (CSI: Miami being one).

If you coulf tell a Season Pass to ONLY look on the days you specify that would help.

On my old Replay you could say, "I want every episode of Stargate that airs on the SciFi channel, but only those episodes that air on Fridays!"
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Old 06-14-2004, 08:32 AM   #19 (Print)
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The only suggestions I can think of for you are:

1. Manual Time and Channel recording - set things up to record Fridays at whatever time pm on scifi channel

or

2. Set up to record only first run episodes. That way, the new showings get picked up but not the replays during the week. If you can't get the first broadcast, you would still pick up one of the subsequent first time broadcasts.

Of course, if there are Friday night reruns you are wanting, you are stuck.

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Old 06-20-2004, 02:01 PM   #20 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jonathan_S
Because (unless you are very unlucky) the keywords you choose from the generic description won't all be present in a normal description, so the wishlist won't match anything with full guide data.


I try pick the two keywords from the generic text that are least likely to show up in an actual program description. For example, with "Monk" I chose 'cracks' and 'disorder'. The odds of those words both showing up in a real program description are pretty small.

If Tivo would just give us a Season Pass option of 'First Run Only - With Guide Data', we wouldn't have to jump through all these hoops.

Last edited by Tivolition : 06-20-2004 at 02:09 PM.
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Old 09-04-2004, 04:24 AM   #21 (Print)
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Heh... the fact that season passes are tied to channels is certainly a problem I'll agree. Take this example: the local Fox affiliate runs two episodes of the Simpsons every weekday. I'm a fan and I want to record them since they really don't overlap with anything else important and on the odd occasion when they do it can be sorted out manually with little fuss. The problem is that it's a Fox affiliate which means that they also show first run episodes on Sundays. Now, my girlfriend would like to record Charmed which runs in the same timeslot as the Simpsons. The Simpsons, of course, has priority. Now in many cases I could simply create a drop-through for this recording The Simpsons as First Run Only and picking up Charmed otherwise. The problem is that I want to also get the re-runs during the rest of the week. Using a manual record for those episodes would technically be possible, but is more of a kludge than should be necessary. Not to mention possible interference with season pass priorities.
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Old 09-04-2004, 01:55 PM   #22 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Belgand
The Simpsons, of course, has priority. Now in many cases I could simply create a drop-through for this recording The Simpsons as First Run Only and picking up Charmed otherwise. The problem is that I want to also get the re-runs during the rest of the week.
Create both a Season Pass and a WishList for The Simpsons. Set one for First Run Only and the other to First Run and Repeats. Make the First Run Only item higher priority than Charmed and the First Run and Repeats item lower priority.
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