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Old 05-21-2005, 08:04 AM   #1 (Print)
mikeglondon
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Question Cancel TopUpTV?

I am seriously thinking about cancelling TopUpTV after E4 goes to Freeview on 27 May? What do you other Topups intent to do?

I wanted to add a poll to this thread but can't work out how so if any one knows how then please add one for me.
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Old 05-21-2005, 09:52 AM   #2 (Print)
ndunlavey
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I am cancelling, but was probably going to even before E4 moved.
Annoyingly, although their sales office is open 7 days, to cancel you have to call up between 9 and 5 Monday to Friday.

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Old 05-22-2005, 12:21 PM   #3 (Print)
Captain Scarlet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeglondon
I am seriously thinking about cancelling TopUpTV after E4 goes to Freeview on 27 May? What do you other Topups intent to do?

I wanted to add a poll to this thread but can't work out how so if any one knows how then please add one for me.


I cancelled three weeks ago after subscribing to TUTV from Day one.

Reasons are (a) I have finally got a communal satellite system point installed for this flat and have now bought a secondhand Sky box to get Freesat channel range on my Tivo and (b) disgust that the TUTV channel lineup has never improved or altered while they now waste a whole free channels slot on repeating their other channels via Extraview when this could have been an extra subscription channel.

A Sky box even without a subscription has three free movie channels on in the evening and virtually the only Sky subscription channel I miss not having is British Eurosport during the Paris-Dakar rally. But Sky require me to subscribe to them for a whole year to have this which I refuse to do!

I foolishly assumed that TUTV's initial channel lineup was only temporary. It never occurred to me that they would fail to make a single improvement after over 12 months.
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Old 05-22-2005, 12:24 PM   #4 (Print)
Captain Scarlet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ndunlavey
Annoyingly, although their sales office is open 7 days, to cancel you have to call up between 9 and 5 Monday to Friday.

Or send them an email which is cheaper and you can do 24/7 without paying £1 or more to cancel on their 10p per minute (at all times) 0871 number

If you want to make sure it gets done and that your dissatisfaction with their service is known you can also copy your email to their marketing manager, Matt Seaman at Matt.Seaman@topuptv.com The main email address for cancellations is enquiries@topuptv.com
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Old 05-24-2005, 11:51 AM   #5 (Print)
mikeglondon
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From topuptv terms and conditions:

"Unless we notify you differently in relation to specific channels or clause 3.3 applies, there is no minimum commitment to the Service and you may end your subscription at any time by giving us at least 28 days advance notice. If you end your subscription to the service under this clause then, as soon as we have received your returned Viewing Card, we will refund any part of the Payment you have paid in advance for the Service for the period after this Agreement has ended."

Just in case you don't want to pay their premium rate phone number to cancel their address is:

PO Box 801, Kirkcaldy, Fife, KY2 6WW
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Old 05-24-2005, 12:29 PM   #6 (Print)
Captain Scarlet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeglondon
From topuptv terms and conditions:

"Unless we notify you differently in relation to specific channels or clause 3.3 applies, there is no minimum commitment to the Service and you may end your subscription at any time by giving us at least 28 days advance notice. If you end your subscription to the service under this clause then, as soon as we have received your returned Viewing Card, we will refund any part of the Payment you have paid in advance for the Service for the period after this Agreement has ended."

This is pretty unhelpful information from yet another member of this forum who seems to think that the official contractual terms and condition of a company are always actual practice in the real world. In the real world normal practice applies and it is only if you have to go to court to resolve the situation that the method specified in the terms and conditions will be most relevant.

In practice then you do not have to return the TUTV Smartcard to stop your subscription as its no use to TUTV and they actually want you to hang on to it in the hope that you will be tempted to resubscribe when a program that you want to see is about to be shown.

Also you do not always have to give 28 days to cancel as in practice that is a maximum notice period and not a minimum notice period. This is because the situation in practice with TUTV is that you pay up front each month for the next month of subscription and that if you cancel there is no pro rata refund of your monthly subscription and instead TUTV will simply not rebill you at your next monthly subscription payment date.

This means that in practice if you decide you want to cancel on 3rd May and your next monthly subscription payment is due on 5th May you can call TUTV on 3rd May and your subscription and your card will be deactivated in 2 days time. However if on the other hand you decide on 6th May that you want to cancel your sub then this can only happen on 5th June in 30 days time by TUTV not taking your next subscription payment. So in fact the notice period can be up to 30 days (contrary to the TUTV terms and conditions) but you don't have to return the viewing card.

My advice if you want to cancel is to send them an email giving firm notice that this is your desire and asking for them to diarise it to be actioned on the day your currently monthly subscription payment ends. Do not telephone them as you will then be kept on hold for ages and they will then say that you have to ring them back the day before the subscription is due for renewal. Of course if you really don't mind paying 10p per minute at all times to speak to them and still prefer to phone then ignore the suggestion they will make that you call back again, get stroppy and demand that they diarise your cancellation request and point out they are attempting to obstruct your attempt to cancel. At that point they always back off. It is not by accident that there is no button to cancel the subscription on the TUTV website, even though there is now one to resubscribe.

Last edited by Captain Scarlet : 05-25-2005 at 05:21 AM.
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Old 05-24-2005, 05:45 PM   #7 (Print)
Raisltin Majere
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Captain Scarlet, aren't you rude?
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Old 05-24-2005, 07:04 PM   #8 (Print)
Captain Scarlet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raisltin Majere
Captain Scarlet, aren't you rude?


Do you work for TopUpTv then?
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Old 05-25-2005, 02:55 AM   #9 (Print)
cwaring
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raisltin Majere
Captain Scarlet, aren't you rude?


There was certainly nothing "rude" about his comments. He has a right to hold any opinion he wants.

Whether you agree with his opinion that you are free to break any T&Cs you agreed to when you took any given service is correct or not is another matter

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Old 05-25-2005, 05:23 AM   #10 (Print)
Captain Scarlet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cwaring
Whether you agree with his opinion that you are free to break any T&Cs you agreed to when you took any given service is correct or not is another matter


The official terms & conditions are often there as a worst case in the event of non payment by the customer for a service he has already consumed etc.

But clearly whoever wrote the T&C for TUTV wasn't aware of their actual planned operating practice.
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Old 05-25-2005, 05:47 AM   #11 (Print)
sanderton
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"This is pretty unhelpful information from yet another member of this forum who seems to think that the official contractual terms and condition of a company are always actual practice in the real world. "

Pretty rude reply to someone who was just helpfully pointing out you can cancel at any time and get part of your money back!

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Old 05-25-2005, 08:17 AM   #12 (Print)
Captain Scarlet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanderton
Pretty rude reply to someone who was just helpfully pointing out you can cancel at any time and get part of your money back!


Perhaps I was a bit harsh but I assumed he was just quoting from what was on their website rather than from my actual live real world experience as a customer who has had to cancel the service:-)
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Old 05-25-2005, 01:35 PM   #13 (Print)
Raisltin Majere
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Thanks Sanderton, that was the bit I was referring to (and I came to this thread after reading another one in which CS has posted a lot and may be considered to be rude).

Carl, whether I agree with his opinion or not is neither here nor there - it was a rude way to present that opinion.

And no, I don't work for Topuptv

Raist
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Old 05-25-2005, 01:59 PM   #14 (Print)
Captain Scarlet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raisltin Majere
Carl, whether I agree with his opinion or not is neither here nor there - it was a rude way to present that opinion.

Not much ruder than some of the posts that I have seen our fearless leader Gary make on here.

My annoyance was because these terms & conditions were presented as though they are the normal way to cancel a TUTV subscription when they are not. Anyone who sends their TUTV card back is only going to cost themselves more money in postage and also not going to be able to get reconnected quickly if they suddenly need to do that.
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Old 05-25-2005, 05:41 PM   #15 (Print)
Raisltin Majere
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In all honesty, I don't recall seeing a rude post from Gary.

And I probably over-reacted and had no right to criticize the tone of your post.

However, had the post been in response to a comment of my own, I would have been upset. I don't doubt that it was not your intention to offend.

Raist
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Old 05-25-2005, 06:14 PM   #16 (Print)
Captain Scarlet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raisltin Majere
In all honesty, I don't recall seeing a rude post from Gary.

And I probably over-reacted and had no right to criticize the tone of your post.

However, had the post been in response to a comment of my own, I would have been upset. I don't doubt that it was not your intention to offend.

Raist

I think it was fair enough of you to make the point but just trying to defend my actions really.

Its a very fine line to tread between stopping people from being rude and interfering with their "freedom of speech":-)

I probably didn't mean Gary had been rude as such but that some of his posts could most definitely be quite frank or even a little blunt at times.
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Old 05-26-2005, 06:52 AM   #17 (Print)
mikeglondon
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It is my normal practice in this technological age to check an organisation’s website when I want information. In this case I was interested in finding out how to cancel my subscription. I looked at each web page and found easily accessible information about how to subscribe or re-subscribe but not on how to cancel. The next piece of information I wanted was the address of the organisation so I went to the contact us page, which did not contain this information. I then noticed on the bottom of the web page terms and conditions. This contains, in normal legal-jargon format, what I need to do to cancel and the address of the organisation.

Three points:

1) In my previous post I was providing people with the information that I found. Topuptv’s terms and conditions may or may not reflect their ‘actual practice in the real world’ or the specific experiences of individual member of this forum. I can only go by the information provided on their website.

2) I have nothing against Topuptv! If I think an organisation provides a product or service that I want and I consider it value for money then I will pay for it. Since E4 is no longer provided in the package I no longer want their service or consider it to be value for money. Should they add other channels in the future or change the price I will reconsider re-subscribing. They are a commercial organisation; I am the customer – very simple relationship.

3) Were any of the previous postings rude? – you decide, but I wont lose any sleep
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Old 05-26-2005, 07:01 AM   #18 (Print)
Captain Scarlet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeglondon
It is my normal practice in this technological age to check an organisation’s website when I want information. In this case I was interested in finding out how to cancel my subscription. I looked at each web page and found easily accessible information about how to subscribe or re-subscribe but not on how to cancel. The next piece of information I wanted was the address of the organisation so I went to the contact us page, which did not contain this information. I then noticed on the bottom of the web page terms and conditions. This contains, in normal legal-jargon format, what I need to do to cancel and the address of the organisation.

Regardless of what the Terms & Conditions on the TUTV website that were written by some lawyer to cover his back say in the real world the normal method of cancellation is either a phone call on the 0871 customer service phone number or a cheaper email to enquiries@topuptv.com. In either case they don't want you to send the Smart Card back to them. In the real world pay tv companies almost never want Smart Cards to be returned.

I didn't intend to be rude towards you in my original post but I was possibly a little terse and rather self satisifed in that response. I will try to avoid this in the future.
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Old 05-27-2005, 06:42 AM   #19 (Print)
mikeglondon
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Captain Scarlet,
The terms and conditions specified by an organisation are what you agree to when you buy that service from them. To suggest that the terms and conditions don’t apply is rather Orwellian logic! I appreciate that your comments on your personal experience are earnest but the fact remains that the terms and conditions agreed between an organisation and its customer apply. Should you consider that the terms and conditions are incorrectly stated on Topuptv’s website that perhaps you should inform them of that and not just shoot the messenger.
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Old 05-27-2005, 06:47 AM   #20 (Print)
Captain Scarlet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeglondon
Captain Scarlet,
The terms and conditions specified by an organisation are what you agree to when you buy that service from them. To suggest that the terms and conditions don’t apply is rather Orwellian logic! I appreciate that your comments on your personal experience are earnest but the fact remains that the terms and conditions agreed between an organisation and its customer apply. Should you consider that the terms and conditions are incorrectly stated on Topuptv’s website that perhaps you should inform them of that and not just shoot the messenger.


The legal terms & conditions of a contract frequently do not reflect the day to day operating practice of many companies.

Also since the operating practice of TUTV is to vary the Terms & Conditions verbally in the customer's favour (not having to return the smart card) they why should the customer complain so long as they still terminate the service and he gets his cheque with the refund.

My comments relate to the real world and not to some hypothetical legalistic world as yours apparently seem to.
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Old 05-27-2005, 06:51 AM   #21 (Print)
ndunlavey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Scarlet
Or send them an email which is cheaper and you can do 24/7 without paying £1 or more to cancel on their 10p per minute (at all times) 0871 number

Ta, but I don't know what information they are going to need to cancel me, so I'll need to talk to them anyway. I'll see if I can find the geogrpahical number that the 087x number maps to.

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Old 05-27-2005, 07:03 AM   #22 (Print)
mikeglondon
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Good luck on finding the geogrpahical number. I checked on www.saynoto0870.com (geat site!) but with no luck. Let us know if there is another website that lists it.

mike, from the hypothetical legalistic world
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