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Old 06-05-2005, 04:42 PM   #211 (Print)
ZeoTiVo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Milhouse
Did someone say death spiral?


not me, TiVo deal with Comcast, Porfit very likely by year end, Intel and AMD putting TiVoToGo on their chips, HME about to come out, use of microsoft Plugin to move tivo shows to portable devices - anything but a death spiral
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Old 06-05-2005, 04:47 PM   #212 (Print)
kcm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeoTiVo
not me, TiVo deal with Comcast, Porfit very likely by year end, Intel and AMD putting TiVoToGo on their chips, HME about to come out, use of microsoft Plugin to move tivo shows to portable devices - anything but a death spiral


oh yeah, just like Mac support, DirecTV contracts, working hardware, dual tuners, HDTV support, CableCard, and everything else we've ever been promised.

I'll believe it when I see it. until then, my TiVo is holding out until I go HDTV. at this point I would select another product out of spite even if TiVo had managed to regain a technological and/or price leadership role by then, because I feel deceived, ignored, and flat out lied to.
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Old 06-05-2005, 04:55 PM   #213 (Print)
ZeoTiVo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kcm
oh yeah, just like Mac support, DirecTV contracts, working hardware, dual tuners, HDTV support, CableCard, and everything else we've ever been promised.

I'll believe it when I see it. until then, my TiVo is holding out until I go HDTV. at this point I would select another product out of spite even if TiVo had managed to regain a technological and/or price leadership role by then, because I feel deceived, ignored, and flat out lied to.



all bad for you but I doubt TiVo is losing so many subs as to be in a death spiral.

My hardware is working fine and so is the vast majority of TiVos, dual tuner HD TiVo will be what comes out for Comcast - that will cover a lot of users, The lack of a ratified cableCard II standard sucks big time but TiVo can now wait for a good cable card while they put out lots of Comcast Dual Tuner HD boxes.

meanwhile lots of new features are coming out via HME and they will work with Mac or Windows OS. Mac users have a right to be pissed off over lack of support for their OS but that is not a death spiral
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Old 06-05-2005, 05:45 PM   #214 (Print)
Milhouse
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Zeo - when are TiVo ever going to make a profit?

They pulled back from the UK 2.5 years ago but have kept up the pretence they may come back "as soon as they find a manufacturer" when the reality is that they can't afford to come back - why not be honest and tell us, eh? TiVo will not now be developing a Mac version of TTG despite all the promises - why's that, lack of cash for development? Is the expense argument really to be believed when it's simply a case of overcoming their own DRM on Mac OS?

Perhaps calling the situation TiVo is in "a death spiral" is OTT, but the transformation of TiVo over the last few years, from an open, listening and invoative corporation that cared about it's customers to an unresponsive, deceitful and morally bankrupt company is somewhat telling. The fact it now has substantial competition eroding it's potential market doesn't improve the future for the company.

Frankly, the TiVo technology deserves to be in better hands than with the current shysters who will tell you anything but the truth, just to string you along that little bit longer...

The double speak from TiVoPony only serves to underline the contempt with which TiVo seem to hold it's customers, to actually think that sop of a post would answer the questions that were being asked of TiVo Corp.

The silence ever since suggests the truth is exactly as posted by the reporter. Which suggests lie upon lie from TiVo?
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Old 06-05-2005, 06:49 PM   #215 (Print)
ZeoTiVo
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well to sound like a broken record - what Lie ?

no timeline for TTG on Mac is no Timeline. They said they needed another manufacturer to sell in the UK - they have no other manufacturer so it will be too expensive to deliver TiVos in the UK VAT taxes and all that. why would they sell in the UK just to loose money on each and every subscription ?

So please reference the specific lies you claim lead to a morally bankrupt TiVo.

now the fact that they Mac support has lost ground while TiVo is silent is not good and definitely a new direction form TiVo , but one many other companies have made and is most likely a business decision dealing with resources and ROI. I seriously doubt this is making a big dent in TiVos bottom line. It sucks for those directly affected by this and could be handled with more openess but I bet if TiVo told the actual facts of Mac support vs saying nothing there would be just as many threads complaining about that as well.

anyway the profit will come from the money they are getting now for development of Comcast DVR which will cover a good bit of development costs and then the discontinuation of rebates and other marketing expenses so that they get the full impact of the SA subscriptions they have built up. Also don't forget that despite the DirectTV contract expiring in the future the DirectTiVo susbcriptions are still going up at little extra cost to TiVo at this point.

the "shyster" has said in his investors call that TiVo will most likely show a profit by the end of this year. I am comfortable with the overall direction of the company and where they are headed to add value to my SA TiVos

Last edited by ZeoTiVo : 06-05-2005 at 06:58 PM.
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Old 06-05-2005, 07:01 PM   #216 (Print)
Milhouse
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What I would suggest is that the lack of a UK manufacturer is simply putting spin on the financial plight of TiVo. While I don't have any issue with TiVo deciding they can't make money from the UK and that investing further in the UK would be a bad idea, I would rather TiVo just came out and said this rather than spin the lie that they are indeed seeking a new manufacturer, when they're not!

I don't believe after all this time that not one single CE manufacturer has stepped up to the plate and said "We'll make a UK Series 2!" It's quite possible this has indeed happened (Humax?) but TiVo don't want to go that route right now, so it won't happen. But hey, they never gave a timeline for returning to the UK, so why worry... We'll get a new UK TiVo about the same time that Mac TTG is released!

Haven't TiVo declared they will make a profit by the end of 2002? And 2003? And 2004...
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Old 06-05-2005, 07:17 PM   #217 (Print)
ZeoTiVo
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well you can believe what you want, but I doubt TiVo has morally bankrupt reasons for not getting back in the UK market, most likely is a bunch of complex business reasons that they feel they would rather not explain in public and give away the business strategy to any UK or US competitors. Same goes for support on the Mac platform. everyone wants this Black and white truth of the matter in a public statement from TiVo when TiVo most likely sees it as many shades of gray and wrapped up in business strategies they would be wise not to talk about in public until it is time to execute on a strategy.

I will wait for the next SEC filing from TiVo rather than just repeating myself.
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Old 06-05-2005, 07:25 PM   #218 (Print)
rog
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Milhouse
What I would suggest is that the lack of a UK manufacturer is simply putting spin on the financial plight of TiVo. While I don't have any issue with TiVo deciding they can't make money from the UK and that investing further in the UK would be a bad idea, I would rather TiVo just came out and said this rather than spin the lie that they are indeed seeking a new manufacturer, when they're not!

I don't believe after all this time that not one single CE manufacturer has stepped up to the plate and said "We'll make a UK Series 2!" It's quite possible this has indeed happened (Humax?) but TiVo don't want to go that route right now, so it won't happen. But hey, they never gave a timeline for returning to the UK, so why worry... We'll get a new UK TiVo about the same time that Mac TTG is released!

Haven't TiVo declared they will make a profit by the end of 2002? And 2003? And 2004...


Lack of UK development could be adding extra "spin" onto a downward financial spiral -- but it's certainly not causing the spiral itself. And I don't even buy the notion anyway. TiVo seems to be doing okay despite all the negative speculation that has surrounded the company for years.

I don't know what the management has said in their quarterly meetings in 2002-2004. I do know what they said as to the 2005 and 2006 fiscal years -- and they were on target.

2005 was all about increasing the subscriber base. They did. In record numbers.

2006 is about achieving profitibility. They're getting closer.

All in all, I'd have to agree with ZeoTiVo on this. I look at the Comcast parternship, the recent Intel deal, and the HME tools coming out, and I see a lot of potential. I just don't see a death spiral.

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Old 06-05-2005, 07:29 PM   #219 (Print)
Milhouse
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I didn't say they were morally bankrupt because they weren't returning to the UK - I'm sure they have their reasons, and they're no doubt very valid.

Where I do question TiVo's morality is when they spin this nonsense about seeking another manufacturer, when they keep up this pretence that they are actively looking to return - when they are not. Sure, you can say that being economical with the truth is purely to protect their business (surely not the one they had in the UK) but as a customer I don't want to be lied to, thanks.

It seems that the truth from TiVo only emerges when an exec shoots his mouth off, or as you say from what they file with the SEC... whatever happened to the old corp we knew and loved that was in touch with it's user base?
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Old 06-05-2005, 07:29 PM   #220 (Print)
kcm
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it's all nice and good that tivo MIGHT be coming out with yet more (as yet vaporware) product, but does it matter if they discontinue support for anyone who buys it two years from now as they did with the 140- units and 7.1x? the lack of faith I have from the concrete actions tivo has taken UNTIL this point leaves me no enthusiasm for anything they will do FROM this point.
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Old 06-05-2005, 07:46 PM   #221 (Print)
dgh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Milhouse
whatever happened to the old corp we knew and loved that was in touch with it's user base?


I think they have too much positive attitude to fit in here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TiVoBill
For now, I'm choosing to not be around here as much for my own well being.
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Old 06-05-2005, 07:47 PM   #222 (Print)
ZeoTiVo
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in regards to the 140
Microsoft has discontinued support for 486 CPUs and for that matter you might as well inlcude Pentium II and almost Pentium III CPUs in windows XP - hardware gets old and software demands more power as more features are added. This does not denote a bad approach by a company but just the natural evolution of technology
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Old 06-06-2005, 01:54 AM   #223 (Print)
juanian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kcm
it's all nice and good that tivo MIGHT be coming out with yet more (as yet vaporware) product, but does it matter if they discontinue support for anyone who buys it two years from now as they did with the 140- units and 7.1x? the lack of faith I have from the concrete actions tivo has taken UNTIL this point leaves me no enthusiasm for anything they will do FROM this point.
What about 140 units?!? I have an "old" 140- unit, and it is currently at 7.1b-01-2-140. (I do envy those who have newer units that support throughput at USB 2.0 speeds.) Are there any rumors (outside of this thread) that support might be dropped? Seems pretty unlikely to me if you ask.

One other item about $$$ income for TiVo - is it just me, or have all of the showcases disappeared? There used to be a dozen or so under "Showcases & TV Guide", and now there is just 1 (TiVolution) - not even TV Guide! I assume that there was cash coming in for those showcases, and they all seemed to disappear quickly. (I used to check some of the channels (like Discovery, TLC, and NBC), but they're gone now (not the channels, just the Showcases ).) That must have made some impact in the bottom line (unless it was too expensive for TiVo to maintain, which seems far-fetched).

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Old 06-06-2005, 07:20 AM   #224 (Print)
davezatz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juanian
One other item about $$$ income for TiVo - is it just me, or have all of the showcases disappeared? There used to be a dozen or so under "Showcases & TV Guide", and now there is just 1 (TiVolution) - not even TV Guide!


Mine have been gone for a few weeks too... I think there is thread about this. It makes the Tivo look "broken" and/or the company look imcompetent when you go to a menu item and find nothing there. Whatever!
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Old 06-06-2005, 08:08 AM   #225 (Print)
Fofer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davezatz
It makes the Tivo look "broken" and/or the company look imcompetent...



Things that make you go "hmmm...."
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Old 06-06-2005, 08:26 AM   #226 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fofer
Things that make you go "hmmm...."

Yup, that's exactly what my fiance did (hmmmm) when she pulled up that menu and saw all the blank boxes and wondered "what happened to the Tivo."
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Old 06-06-2005, 09:30 AM   #227 (Print)
ZeoTiVo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davezatz
Yup, that's exactly what my fiance did (hmmmm) when she pulled up that menu and saw all the blank boxes and wondered "what happened to the Tivo."



I think the HME release later this year will fill the gaps on this and in a better way since there will be more options for displaying and interacting with it.

I think TiVo saved money by the move since they did not have to use late night TV to fill in the blocks that are not there. I am not sure TiVo ever got paid for the stuff being there but the key phrase is "not sure"
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Old 06-06-2005, 01:31 PM   #228 (Print)
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Well, Apple just announced Macs will be switching to Intel chips starting next year. Could this have any effect on this situation?
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Old 06-06-2005, 01:56 PM   #229 (Print)
ZeoTiVo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mec1991
Well, Apple just announced Macs will be switching to Intel chips starting next year. Could this have any effect on this situation?


in "a couple of years" you will see the results of this.
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Old 06-06-2005, 02:03 PM   #230 (Print)
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from PPC to Intel

I can't see this making that much of a difference until they stop requiring Windows-proprietary technology in order to run the DRM. No number of Intel processors will run DirectShow on OSX.

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Old 06-06-2005, 02:10 PM   #231 (Print)
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http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000157045779/

Steve’s just finished up delivering his keynote, but it looks like all those years PC nerds spent debating Apple fanboys about x86 vs. PowerPC performance weren’t exactly for nought—at today’s Apple WWDC in SF, Jobs declared the PowerPC has been “living a secret double life.” We know it’s more than just getting 15 “integer perf units” per watt to Intel’s 70—like, say, having consistant troubles getting to that magical 3.0GHz marker, or those pesky heat issues. Steve’s solution? Go Intel. And just as everyone had been expecting, a secret Intel build of OS X had been kept in house for the past half decade, just waiting for a reason to be loosed upon the world. They expect the full transition to Intel-based machines to be complete by 2007, as speculated, but we’re still in the dark about how Mac is going to make OS X beige-box PC-proof—or if they even are.

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