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Old 12-27-2005, 06:29 PM   #1 (Print)
jello25944
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Arrow Pics of my multi-switch cables

Holy cow this looks like a lot of crap. Well, my dish is on the right (you can see the mounting pole. I've got the 4x8 multiswitch there - lets see if I can account for all of the cables...

4 from the dish into the multiswitch
1 supplying 12v DC to the switch from inside the house.
6 to the receivers (I've got 2 HR10-250s and 1 HDVR-2 in the house)
I have 1 occasional-use standard receiver that I use now and again.
1 black cable from roof antenna to the two diplexers for off-air HD.

Yeah, that does it!


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Old 12-27-2005, 06:52 PM   #2 (Print)
Mark Lopez
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It looks like you have decent compression connectors on most of them, but some look like the cheaper crimp on type. IMO, with that many cables (outside), I would invest in a good compression crimper and connectors.
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Old 12-27-2005, 06:53 PM   #3 (Print)
A J Ricaud
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It looks like some of your coax fittings are not of the compression type rated for outdoor use. You might want to check to see if the side crimp-type fittings are designed for outdoor use.
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Old 12-27-2005, 06:55 PM   #4 (Print)
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Wow, Mark and AJ. I think you're both right. I actually just did most of this over the weekend - some cables are a bit too long. I'll tidy things up and get better fittings. I do live in So-Cal, and there's a roof over all of this equipment, however, so I can take my time with that.

Thanks so much for the advice - what a great board.
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Old 12-27-2005, 07:08 PM   #5 (Print)
Mark Lopez
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There are plenty of compression tools out there. I use this one. It's reasonably priced and they are very fast to ship.

http://store.yahoo.com/technicalcon...beitsnnses.html

Connectors for RG6U
http://store.yahoo.com/technicalcon.../thbesnfco.html

Quad shield connectors
http://store.yahoo.com/technicalcon...homandbet1.html
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Old 12-27-2005, 07:09 PM   #6 (Print)
AbMagFab
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Wow, that sucks. Some suggestions:

#1) Get a multiswitch with an antenna input (e.g. 5x8), so you can diplex from that. You could eliminate all three diplexers here (not inside, of course).

2) Do you really need those in-line amps? If so, might want to move them inside. I found them to die quickly when on the outside (although that space looks a little protected). If you're just using them due to cable length, try removing them.

3) As others have said, use all compression connectors. I think you can get tools and connectors at Home Depot now, so they're readily available if you don't have a set up yourself.

4) Is that RG6QS? Looks like regular RG6. If possible, replace as much as you can with RG6QS. It's just better, and you'll have far fewer problems in the long run. At least replace the cable from the antenna with RG6QS, since that's the most sensitive to interference (currently looks like some store-bought junk cable).

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Old 12-27-2005, 08:30 PM   #7 (Print)
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Great suggestions:

I only have 2 diplexers outside - the other thingy is an antenna splitter, to go to both diplexers.

I put those amps on because of the long cable run accross the roof - it's around 250'. I assumed they need to be at the dish side of the run, as the cable is outdoors all the way until the box. Can I really do without them? Never tried that..

I will definitely change out those connectors to compression type.

I dont know if the RG6 is Quad shielded or not.. I figured the signal from the dish is digital, so there really won't be interference that a shield would protect against.


yes, the cable from the antenna is store-bought 100' RG-6. Do you think that a quad-shield cable would give me a better signal for Hi-Def material from my UHF antenna? I get all the LA channels, though sometimes I get dropouts on 4.1

Quote:
Originally Posted by AbMagFab
Wow, that sucks. Some suggestions:

#1) Get a multiswitch with an antenna input (e.g. 5x8), so you can diplex from that. You could eliminate all three diplexers here (not inside, of course).

2) Do you really need those in-line amps? If so, might want to move them inside. I found them to die quickly when on the outside (although that space looks a little protected). If you're just using them due to cable length, try removing them.

3) As others have said, use all compression connectors. I think you can get tools and connectors at Home Depot now, so they're readily available if you don't have a set up yourself.

4) Is that RG6QS? Looks like regular RG6. If possible, replace as much as you can with RG6QS. It's just better, and you'll have far fewer problems in the long run. At least replace the cable from the antenna with RG6QS, since that's the most sensitive to interference (currently looks like some store-bought junk cable).
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Old 12-27-2005, 08:41 PM   #8 (Print)
AbMagFab
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jello25944
Great suggestions:

I only have 2 diplexers outside - the other thingy is an antenna splitter, to go to both diplexers.

I put those amps on because of the long cable run accross the roof - it's around 250'. I assumed they need to be at the dish side of the run, as the cable is outdoors all the way until the box. Can I really do without them? Never tried that..

I will definitely change out those connectors to compression type.

I dont know if the RG6 is Quad shielded or not.. I figured the signal from the dish is digital, so there really won't be interference that a shield would protect against.


yes, the cable from the antenna is store-bought 100' RG-6. Do you think that a quad-shield cable would give me a better signal for Hi-Def material from my UHF antenna? I get all the LA channels, though sometimes I get dropouts on 4.1


More connectors = more problems.

I would first replace the 4x8 with a 5x8, and get rid of the two diplexors and the one antenna splitter. Totally unnecessary, and a Terk 5x8 is available new on eBay for < $50.

Second I would try the long runs without the in-line amps. You probably don't need them, and again more connectors = more problems.

Third I would replace all connectors with compression.

Only if you feel up to it, replace the cable with RG6QS. Yes it's better, but if you have no problems, you should be okay.

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Old 12-28-2005, 01:51 AM   #9 (Print)
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I would stop diplexing altogether. The new MPEG4 Ka band stuff doesn't allow it. It's only a matter of time until separate OTA will be required anyway.

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Old 12-28-2005, 11:33 AM   #10 (Print)
Jello2594
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You mean a seperate OTA feed to each receiver? How annoying.

Quote:
Originally Posted by greywolf
I would stop diplexing altogether. The new MPEG4 Ka band stuff doesn't allow it. It's only a matter of time until separate OTA will be required anyway.
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Old 12-28-2005, 11:54 AM   #11 (Print)
Mark Lopez
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jello2594
You mean a seperate OTA feed to each receiver? How annoying.


Yes, but OTOH since the MPEG4 feeds are 'supposed' to have your HD locals, having an OTA antenna may not be necessary.


Quote:
Originally Posted by AbMagFab
More connectors = more problems.


Ok, let's not claim the sky is falling. More connectors = more possible problems. With the proper connectors properly weater sealed, it should not matter how many you have other than some possible signal attenuation.
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Old 12-28-2005, 03:04 PM   #12 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Lopez
Yes, but OTOH since the MPEG4 feeds are 'supposed' to have your HD locals, having an OTA antenna may not be necessary.


Depends on your market and what stations are important to you. In Chicago they are only offering ABC, NBC, CBS, and Fox. We have three PBS stations (WTTW, WYCC, WYIN), the WB (WGN), WCIU (independent), WPWR (independent), and a few other independents that all broadcast in HD that we can't get off of DirecTV. For me, no local PBS in HD is a real killer. Most of my favorite shows are on PBS.
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Old 12-28-2005, 03:13 PM   #13 (Print)
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When do I have to worry about the new 5-LNB dish in the Los Angeles area? Should I wait till then to change the multiswitch, connectors, etc?
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Old 12-28-2005, 03:18 PM   #14 (Print)
aaronwt
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Even with the crimp on connectores, if they have the rubber o-ring and silicone seal you shouldn't have any problems. Mine are 4 years old and I have yet to notice any problems with the connectors or signal.

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Old 12-28-2005, 07:13 PM   #15 (Print)
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You should sell those pics to a cable tv company, they could totally use that in their advertising.
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Old 12-28-2005, 07:35 PM   #16 (Print)
jello25944
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeDondeEs
You should sell those pics to a cable tv company, they could totally use that in their advertising.


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Old 12-30-2005, 09:29 AM   #17 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jello25944
When do I have to worry about the new 5-LNB dish in the Los Angeles area? Should I wait till then to change the multiswitch, connectors, etc?

In the Bay Area they are ONLY offering the Big4 so why bother for now? The only one I can not get OTA is ABC and so as long as I the LA feed....

What I am wondering is what kind of coax is used for the 5-LNB dish? My coax needs to be replaced and I might as well replace it with the proper coax in preperation for the 5-LNB critter.

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Old 12-30-2005, 11:03 AM   #18 (Print)
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The spec is for all copper conductor RG6 rather than the usual copper clad steel.

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Old 12-30-2005, 01:07 PM   #19 (Print)
A J Ricaud
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RG-6 w/all copper center conductor, as greywolf has stated. Typically quad shield is not necessary unless there is a lot of interference.

I am using Belden 7915a, which is tri-shield and has the same specs for interference rejection as most quad shield coax. I like it because the outer jacket is smooth, unlike quad shield, and is easier to pull. Also, it's easier to put on connectors. Here's where I got mine a while back:

http://www.newark.com/NewarkWebComm...Images=true&N=0
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Old 12-30-2005, 06:24 PM   #20 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A J Ricaud
RG-6 w/all copper center conductor, as greywolf has stated. Typically quad shield is not necessary unless there is a lot of interference.

I am using Belden 7915a, which is tri-shield and has the same specs for interference rejection as most quad shield coax. I like it because the outer jacket is smooth, unlike quad shield, and is easier to pull. Also, it's easier to put on connectors. Here's where I got mine a while back:

http://www.newark.com/NewarkWebComm...Images=true&N=0


But if he's redoing it anyway, why not use RG6QS? It's not like it's that much more expensive, and it's better, even if only slightly.

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Old 12-30-2005, 07:19 PM   #21 (Print)
A J Ricaud
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I think a lot depends on the quality of the cable and the specs. The coax I mentioned above (Belden 7915a) is sweep tested to 3 GHz and compares well against most QS, although it's just as expensive, or more expensive, than most QS. Here's the specs:

http://bwccat.belden.com/ecat/pdf/7915A.pdf
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Old 12-30-2005, 07:50 PM   #22 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AbMagFab
But if he's redoing it anyway, why not use RG6QS? It's not like it's that much more expensive, and it's better, even if only slightly.

It can only be better if you can reap the benefit. Otherwise it is not any better. Quad shield is only better if more shielding is better, and more shielding is better only if you are sharing frequencies with some strong terrestrial signal, such as a CATV company using channel 11 in a market where a channel 11 broadcasts, or using channel 19 in an area that has pagers who's carriers fall on channel 19 or a sub-multiple of channel 19. Then you have the opportunity for ingress, and more shielding helps prevent against this. L-band converted DBS does not share frequencies with anything that has strong carriers, so minimum shielding is just as effective as super-duper shielding. As long as the cable sweeps the frequency of interest (which also proves that the characteristic impedance is within tolerance) any old RG6 will work just as well as the most expensive cable you can buy. If you have it, use it. If you don't, going out of your way to get it is a wasted effort.
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Old 12-30-2005, 11:03 PM   #23 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TyroneShoes
It can only be better if you can reap the benefit.

As long as the cable sweeps the frequency of interest (which also proves that the characteristic impedance is within tolerance) any old RG6 will work just as well as the most expensive cable you can buy. If you have it, use it. If you don't, going out of your way to get it is a wasted effort.


OTOH, if running new cable, why not put the good stuff in the first time and avoid having to replace it if the next generation of whatever you hook up needs it? I had dropped 2 runs of QS RG6 a while back in anticipation of getting Direcway Internet. I ended up going with WildBlue instead and they require 3Ghz rated cable. It didn't cost me anything for them to replace it, but having the better cable to begin with would have saved some time. Especially if replacement would not have been as easy as it was in my case.
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