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Old 08-22-2005, 11:03 AM   #91 (Print)
TAsunder
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Every once in a while I see HBO series for $50 for a short period of time. But $70 is more typical, so it's not a bad deal per se.
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Old 08-22-2005, 11:06 AM   #92 (Print)
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These are snippets of peoples lives and in fact at the end of your days when your reflecting on your life, most people want to know two things: Have I been loved and did I love well. They typically dont focus on all the crap. So I think the ending was appropriate. I also kind of think the ending was from Claires point of view as she was reflecting on all the things in her life such as the death of her family while she was waiting for her turn at passing. The final scene of her traveling that road to her future ALONE was brilliant as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TAsunder
Well, I thought it was very inventive but disappointing. My main problem is that the basic premise of the clever ending is the characters all pretty much stayed the same until they died. For a show full of dramatic character changes and arcs of mental growth, it just seemed a little too "fairy tale ending" to me.

It basically equated to a hollywood movie ending where all character summaries printed with digital printout noises were something like:

David Fisher lived happily ever after.
Claire Fisher lived happily ever after.

etc.

I think it would have been better ended at the end of last week's episode, even though ruth did not have her epiphany yet.

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Old 08-22-2005, 11:18 AM   #93 (Print)
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Loved the finale. Two things bothered me (that's pretty good!!): one was mentioned already: Keith is the owner of the security company AND he's what, 50 or so (I forget his dates)? And he's humping security bags out of the back of a truck? Please. They could still have had him be killed but with a more realistic scenario.

Second, I didn't like the resolution of the Brenda/Willa arc. To me there was just no lead-up to it and not enough work done to fill in the transition between Brenda being berated by Nate to accepting Willa without worrying anymore. I know she had that talk with Ruth but it just wasn't there, IMO.

Minor things though! I loved it overall. I did catch that Anthony was gay, and I also mentioned to my wife that Billy talked Brenda to death... that was too funny.

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Old 08-22-2005, 11:29 AM   #94 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madscientist

Second, I didn't like the resolution of the Brenda/Willa arc. To me there was just no lead-up to it and not enough work done to fill in the transition between Brenda being berated by Nate to accepting Willa without worrying anymore. I know she had that talk with Ruth but it just wasn't there, IMO.
.


I thought about that. My guess is because its all in her head is that it has to do with Ruth accepting her just like Ruth essentially gave Maggie forgiveness in her phone call and let them move on. Brenda essentially did in kind by saying Ruth could be part of their lives.

If you pay subtle attention in the final dinner scene Brenda wasnt exactly all healed in toasting Nate. I think she still feels he was a jerk but is now able to put it aside.
You might bring up the dream sequence with the baby and assume things are better. I am going to just assume it meant she wishes Nate's father could have seen his grandchild and that she is going to put him aside much as any women who deals with their spouse after they cheat.

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Old 08-22-2005, 11:38 AM   #95 (Print)
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Did anyone ese notice taht everytime someone was watching TV in this episode, they were watching "Just Shoot Me"? I thought i symbolized the way Ruth was feeling while dealing with Nate's death...ideas?

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Old 08-22-2005, 11:40 AM   #96 (Print)
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Yeah, I noticed that, and thought the exact same thing... that's exactly how Ruth was feeling... but I did think it was a strange way for Alan Ball, et al to get that point across.

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Old 08-22-2005, 11:43 AM   #97 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phluffhead
Did anyone ese notice taht everytime someone was watching TV in this episode, they were watching "Just Shoot Me"? I thought i symbolized the way Ruth was feeling while dealing with Nate's death...ideas?



Claire: What are you watching?
Ruth: I don't know, it's always on.

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Old 08-22-2005, 11:49 AM   #98 (Print)
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The web site obit for David states that the park he died in was Echo Park. He seemed happy and at peace that final day, there with his new partner, and I believe other members of the family.

As I recall, Echo Park was one of the places that the mugger guy took David. That is where he scored the crack and some of the other brutalizing took place. So I found it touching that David was able to go there years later and have a happy day with his family.

I read that the final montage was only six minutes. I had thought it was longer. I would have loved to see it go on for longer and see what happened to some of the other second tier characters (the second generation, Vanessa, Kathy Bates, etc.) I would have loved to have seen mugger guy get killed in prison.

I also came to understand and care for Claire too. How sad that she went blind (I assume that is what the opaque eyes meant) when her passion was so visual. And how sad to die alone, but then people who die very old and/or the youngest siblings might in fact be the last survivors. Since Claire was 102, it's possible even her nieces and nephews might be dead of old age.

Last edited by TeighVaux : 08-22-2005 at 11:54 AM.
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Old 08-22-2005, 12:26 PM   #99 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madscientist
Loved the finale. Two things bothered me (that's pretty good!!): one was mentioned already: Keith is the owner of the security company AND he's what, 50 or so (I forget his dates)? And he's humping security bags out of the back of a truck? Please. They could still have had him be killed but with a more realistic scenario.


I took it as a wrong place, wrong time situation. He owns the company, and based on his struggling to get up and out of the truck, I don't think he does that job everyday. Maybe someone didn't show up for work, maybe business is bad and he has to make some runs... When you own your own business, there's lots of things that for one reason or another, you end up doing yourself! I also feel like this fits well with the act of random violence - if they had chosen another random day to rob the truck, Keith wouldn't have been there.

Jeff
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Old 08-22-2005, 12:41 PM   #100 (Print)
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I took the eyes to be glaucoma, but then again I don't have any idea what glaucoma would look like so it was just conjecture.
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Old 08-22-2005, 12:47 PM   #101 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TAsunder
I took the eyes to be glaucoma, but then again I don't have any idea what glaucoma would look like so it was just conjecture.



They looked like cataracts to me.

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Old 08-22-2005, 01:01 PM   #102 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zalusky
You might bring up the dream sequence with the baby and assume things are better. I am going to just assume it meant she wishes Nate's father could have seen his grandchild and that she is going to put him aside much as any women who deals with their spouse after they cheat.
No, I don't buy that. Nate was being so horrible to her (in her mind of course) that I can't accept that he would be so nice in that scene unless she had come to terms with many things: it seemed to me that her visions of Nate were a combination of many complex things: Nate's cheating on her, his death, her worries about Willa's health, etc. I'm willing to believe she got over these things and I have no problem with the final denouement. My only comment is that it didn't seem to have a good basis in the show. One minute she's being berated by a vindictive and nasty Nate; the next she's accepting Willa from a smiling calm Nate.

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Old 08-22-2005, 01:05 PM   #103 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PJO1966
They looked like cataracts to me.


Whoops, that is what I was thinking of. For some reason I get them confused.
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Old 08-22-2005, 01:05 PM   #104 (Print)
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I thought it was pretty clear... Ruth eased her fears about Willa. Since Nate was coming from her worst fears, and her fears were not as strong as they were, she was able to see an accepting Nate.

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Old 08-22-2005, 01:09 PM   #105 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jautor
I took it as a wrong place, wrong time situation. He owns the company, and based on his struggling to get up and out of the truck, I don't think he does that job everyday. Maybe someone didn't show up for work, maybe business is bad and he has to make some runs... When you own your own business, there's lots of things that for one reason or another, you end up doing yourself!


It also fits with Keith's character. He's a good guy, hard worker. Even if he owned the company, I could see him doing the real work with the rest of his employees... not lounging and barking orders from behind a desk.







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Old 08-22-2005, 01:32 PM   #106 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fofer
It also fits with Keith's character. He's a good guy, hard worker. Even if he owned the company, I could see him doing the real work with the rest of his employees... not lounging and barking orders from behind a desk.


It seems to me that the scene was also meant to show that his company didn't become hugely successful ... it essentially was a small business, with all that entails.

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Old 08-22-2005, 01:37 PM   #107 (Print)
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Well, I'm clearly in the minority here. Good, not great finale, but the death montage was way cool-- watched it 4 times!

Another big nit- there is NO WAY that Fisher and Sons (or Fisher and Diaz) owned the property! That would be owned by Ruth and Nate, Sr's estate. Conceivable if Ruth were a major shareholder in the company (since she'd have inherited Nate's portion in all but some fairly atypical scenarios). The business itself would only be worth, I dunno, a few hundred $K. How much did Rico plow into the biz? $50K? Not even the Fishers would be dumb enough to give him 25% of their family's asset for that! They would have borrowed against their massive equity when they needed that small chunk of cash. No sweat.
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Old 08-22-2005, 01:42 PM   #108 (Print)
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I watched the death montage about 10 times.


I think I'm obsessed with these characters. I want to keep them alive.


If I write fan fiction about them, would it still be considered "slash?"

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Old 08-22-2005, 01:43 PM   #109 (Print)
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I thought there was an episode some time back where the sons were given the property? Maybe I'm imagining it.
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Old 08-22-2005, 01:44 PM   #110 (Print)
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We dont know but one could consider that in her mind Nate would be a totally different person introducing the child to his father then he would be if it was just him and Brenda. Classic spousal abuse. However it does imply things arent always wrapped up neatly in a happily ever after scenario.


Quote:
Originally Posted by madscientist
No, I don't buy that. Nate was being so horrible to her (in her mind of course) that I can't accept that he would be so nice in that scene unless she had come to terms with many things: it seemed to me that her visions of Nate were a combination of many complex things: Nate's cheating on her, his death, her worries about Willa's health, etc. I'm willing to believe she got over these things and I have no problem with the final denouement. My only comment is that it didn't seem to have a good basis in the show. One minute she's being berated by a vindictive and nasty Nate; the next she's accepting Willa from a smiling calm Nate.

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Old 08-22-2005, 01:46 PM   #111 (Print)
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Even so, no WAY that they would tie it up w/ the company. If they did, no need for Rico's loan-- his contribution was pennies compared to the worth of the property!

Note from the obits: Apparantly Brenda was buried with Nate.
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Old 08-22-2005, 01:46 PM   #112 (Print)
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Come on, the business could have bought the property from the individuals decades ago, or it's quite possible that Nate Sr. bought it as an existing business, and they never personally owned the property, and lived in it as tenants of the business. Highly probable, and most likely IMHO. And it doesn't matter what Rico invested originally, if he bought 25% of the business, he's entitled to 25% of the share, no matter what. Perhaps it was David and Nate's fault for not accurately valuing the business to sell 25% to Rico. Remember, they had a simple choice- let Rico invest his share for 25%, or close down or sell the business a couple of seasons ago... Given the choice, it's not surprising they sold 25% for pennies on the dollar in order to save the other 75%.

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Old 08-22-2005, 01:49 PM   #113 (Print)
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I thought the finale was excellent, it just should have happened 2 1/2 years ago before the rudder fell off the series!

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Old 08-22-2005, 01:57 PM   #114 (Print)
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Wow - I've missed the whole current season and half of the last (not worth paying for HBO for one measly show, however good!) ... can't wait for the DVDs. I had no idea the Series was ending!

And I skimmed the spoilers - sounds like an apt ending

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Old 08-22-2005, 02:31 PM   #115 (Print)
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In the minority...

Well I found the whole final montage to be a bit cheesey and at times unintentionally humorous. Especially Brenda being "talked to death" by Billy, maybe it was suppose to be funny but it was still uncomfortably amusing. David keeling over backwards brought a chuckle from me as well.

I did like the song however.

Keith's death seemed the most unrealistic to me. The guy is 61, he's the owner of the business and he is lugging the heavy bags out of the back of the armored truck then gets shot and killed and he is not wearing a bullet-proof vest?

Ruth dies at 79, so that means she is 59 when Nate dies at 40, so Ruth was 19 when she had Nate? Certainly possible and I can understand her urging Claire live her life to the fullest. That I thought was a nice touch.

I do like that everyone seemed to finally find some happiness. What bothered me the most about this show over the last several seasons was that nothing, and I mean NOTHING ever good happened to any of these people. And they were such whiners and caused most of their own problems that I didn't really care.

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Old 08-22-2005, 02:37 PM   #116 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oski87
Note from the obits: Apparantly Brenda was buried with Nate.


Do we know that Nate was in fact buried at the "Deep Creek Nature Preserve?"


No, I think it just means she had a "green burial" too.
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Old 08-22-2005, 02:37 PM   #117 (Print)
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So Ruth was 19 when she had Nate?


Yes, that was established seasons ago.. Nate Sr and Ruth married very young, and had Nate thereabouts.

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Old 08-22-2005, 02:59 PM   #118 (Print)
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"Breathe Me" by Sia.


Thank you! I'm sad that iTunes only makes it available to buy the entire album. Grr...
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Old 08-22-2005, 03:07 PM   #119 (Print)
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<sigh>

I miss the show already.

I'm now seeing the first four seasons on DVD for $280 on Amazon.

Anyone seen the set for less? Or should I wait a few weeks, maybe they'll come out with a complete set (seasons 1-5).

Just a heads up:

I was at Costco today. They already have the HBO boxsets, inclusing SFU, at a pretty good price, maye $60/season or so. But this week, they have a coupon for $20 off each set, which is by far the best price you'll see on Six Feet Under for the foreseeable future. (I wouldn't count on Season 5 being released for a few months, at least. I think Season 4 was just released)

Dunno if you or a friend is a member at Costco, but if you are this is a really good deal. The coupons were also good for The Sopranos, Deadwood and Carnivale.
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Old 08-22-2005, 03:09 PM   #120 (Print)
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Brenda being "talked to death" by Billy, maybe it was suppose to be funny but it was still uncomfortably amusing


"Uncomfortably amusing" describes about 50% of the entire series, and that was by design.

I didn't understand why somebody moving from LA to New York would (a) take a car to New York City (not exactly car-friendly) or (b) drive ALL THE WAY from California, taking ~5 days, when she could fly there in 5 hours.

David was neurotic, borderline mentally ill ... and his idea of getting better is to move in with Ruth Fisher. Not such fine therapy, I'm thinkin'. And then he gets better awful quick.

But I'm willing to let it all go for the sake of dramatic closure. Great episode and season. Amazing last 10 minutes.

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