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Old 11-19-2005, 12:10 PM   #1 (Print)
rtaheri
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Waiver denied by KSBW in San Jose

I live in San Jose, where the local NBC station, KNTV, just moved their antenna to ~50 miles away. The new antenna being in a slightly different direction than Sutro Tower, which broadcasts most of the other local stations, and being a VHF signal, I no longer have HD reception for NBC.

So, I called D*, and asked to get their HD NBC feed from LA. They said they would start the process for a waiver. On my own, I contacted KNTV, which, being an NBC owned and operated station, granted the waiver immediately. I faxed the waiver to D*, but they said "not so fast; you also have to get a waiver from channel 8 KSBW." Now, that's a station is Salinas, on the other side of Santa Cruz mountains. I sometimes notice a ghost on channel 8, but that's about it. I donít know of anyone in my area that watches KSBW. We are not really in their market. But it looks like they figure these things out by the distance as the crow flies.

So, I called KSBW the same way I had contacted my real local station. But KSBW didn't want to talk to me, and told me to just wait for the process to go through.

Well, I just got a post card from D*, telling me that the waiver was denied by my local TV station. Has anyone else gotten screwed by KSBW? Any recourse?

Thanks,
Reza

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Old 11-19-2005, 01:36 PM   #2 (Print)
leftcoastdave
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KSBW refuses all waiver requests. Locals here in the Monterey Penninsula have never been successful in getting them to grant waivers even though a significant percentage of our folks are in blind canyon blocked locations. The only people I know who were granted waivers were those who contacted the station engineer, Jim Grimes, and asked for a site survery. Given that you do not live in the Salinas Valley you might have more success with a direct call to Grimes. All internet requests are routinely denied.

Good luck.

Dave
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Old 11-19-2005, 05:25 PM   #3 (Print)
midas
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Also keep in mind, just because you can't get their SD station doesn't always mean that you can't get their HD station. It's worth trying, especially if it's a UHF station and you can't get their VHF SD station.
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Old 11-19-2005, 05:56 PM   #4 (Print)
1999cobra
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Yup - but ...

Well - same story different part of the Country. I live in Vermont we have hills, valleys, mountains, rivers, lakes, gorges - you name it.

I live North of Burlington and have been turned down twice for waivers (no way I'm getting any OTA broadcast worth anything). As a matter or record both managers at the closest Circuit City and Best Buy both told me not to waste my time or theirs buying any OTA anntenna because anyone who has ever attempted to mount and capture OTA signals in the area where I live have always promptly returned same for a full refund as it's impossible to do.

Now armed with that information I called D* and attempted a second round of waivers - yup you guessed it - turned down again. They simply could care LESS.

So D* is sending out a form I have to complete and then they will send out an independant signal tester to determine my signal strength - after I fail to get any signal worth anything then THEY will be forced to give me the waivers BY LAW....
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Old 11-19-2005, 10:46 PM   #5 (Print)
ChofuHS
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Local channel folks are total jerks. They are losing their fiefdoms and trying to hold everyone hostage. I will love the day when locals eat dust! This whole issue about needing an antenna, not getting waivers when you still can't get their channel, and my locals who transmit most of the day and some evenings in low power. jlkahoidshiodhoieihoe!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 11-20-2005, 03:53 AM   #6 (Print)
NoCleverUsername
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According to http://www.theksbwchannel.com/ksbw/3379119/detail.html, DirecTV started carrying KSBW on June 4, 2004.

Maybe they automatically denied the request because they assumed you should already be able to get their station via D* in the first place?
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Old 11-20-2005, 01:59 PM   #7 (Print)
litzdog911
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoCleverUsername
According to http://www.theksbwchannel.com/ksbw/3379119/detail.html, DirecTV started carrying KSBW on June 4, 2004.

Maybe they automatically denied the request because they assumed you should already be able to get their station via D* in the first place?


But DirecTV does not carry their HiDef channel. Some local broadcasters are just butts.

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Old 11-20-2005, 05:49 PM   #8 (Print)
bigpuma
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoCleverUsername
According to http://www.theksbwchannel.com/ksbw/3379119/detail.html, DirecTV started carrying KSBW on June 4, 2004.

Maybe they automatically denied the request because they assumed you should already be able to get their station via D* in the first place?


That is not the issue. In San Jose you get KNTV NBC station. No one around here watches or wants to watch KSBW, but that doesn't stop them from denying these waivers. I am not sure what they hope to gain but it sure is a pain in the arse.

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Old 11-21-2005, 09:51 AM   #9 (Print)
patrickthickey
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KSBW - small fish in a small mud puddle

The KSBW waiver denial process is legendary. It is automatic. So, we (and many, many others) don't watch them or whomever is stupid enough to advertise on their channel).

We're in a blind canyon, and refuse to erect a 100 foot tower to get their flea-powered transmitter. Their attitude is pure arrogance, and ultimately will do them more harm than what they perceive they are protecting.

We're talking about a really small market, an insignificant presence, and on top of it - a very poorly engineered station. 50% of the time they don't flip the 16:9 switch, etc. because their target demograph is not high definition owners.

There is NO WAY the original poster can get KSBW's feeble transmission when we on the correct side of the coastal range cannot. He should be able to get waivers, and should press hard to do so. Light those people up and expose them for the protectionist, Luddite small town goobers they really are.

regards,

patrick

Last edited by patrickthickey : 11-22-2005 at 08:52 AM.
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Old 11-21-2005, 03:59 PM   #10 (Print)
1999cobra
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just got...

Just got my DNS signal testing letter today -

Can you believe these $ss$oles (TV stations) have the right to dispute the company choosen to do the testing - Good God - when will it end ...!!!
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Old 11-24-2005, 02:45 AM   #11 (Print)
hoffa
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Anyone had any luck with FOX. All my waivers got granted except FOX. Any ideas??
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Old 11-24-2005, 02:55 AM   #12 (Print)
Tricket
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Fox not only denied my request, they sent a couple denials a few weeks apart, just to be sure I got them I haven't had the energy to poke 'em again, but I'll wish you the best if you do!
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Old 11-24-2005, 04:27 AM   #13 (Print)
hoffa
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I am trying. I will let you know how it goes.
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Old 11-24-2005, 03:08 PM   #14 (Print)
1999cobra
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actually-

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricket
Fox not only denied my request, they sent a couple denials a few weeks apart, just to be sure I got them I haven't had the energy to poke 'em again, but I'll wish you the best if you do!


Fox was the only approval I got - ABC, CBS, NBC denied TWICE... Now the signal strength test will proceed...
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Old 11-29-2005, 08:50 PM   #15 (Print)
hoffa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1999cobra
Fox was the only approval I got - ABC, CBS, NBC denied TWICE... Now the signal strength test will proceed...


How did you go about getting FOX? Where are you located?
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Old 11-29-2005, 10:16 PM   #16 (Print)
JHunt
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No luck with KTVU ( FOX ) with HD...here in Newark,Ca......All the other Big 3 in HD from L.A...OKAY

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Old 11-29-2005, 11:05 PM   #17 (Print)
hoffa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JHunt
No luck with KTVU ( FOX ) with HD...here in Newark,Ca......All the other Big 3 in HD from L.A...OKAY


Try a Zenith Silver Sensor indoor antenna. I picked up KTVUDT the Oakland station. It comes in on channel 2.1. It works perfect.
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Old 12-03-2005, 05:43 PM   #18 (Print)
1999cobra
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoffa
How did you go about getting FOX? Where are you located?



I live in Northern Vermont just moved here from MA - not sure why I got Fox they just gave it to me - D* CS said Fox up here doesn't care...
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Old 12-28-2005, 02:21 PM   #19 (Print)
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1999Cobra

How did the Signal Strength test go?
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Old 11-30-2005, 12:14 AM   #20 (Print)
tenthplanet
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Excuse me if this sounds ignorant but can't the FCC put a little pressure on these unreceivable stations that are denying waviers in various parts of the country. The stations hold a public license. It would seem that if they are going to claim you as being in their service area then it is their responsibility to make sure that you can recieve their signal. If the topography doesn't allow that then THEY have a problem and if they can't supply you then they can not legally claim you. Any lawyers out there care to comment?
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Old 11-30-2005, 12:30 AM   #21 (Print)
hoffa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tenthplanet
Excuse me if this sounds ignorant but can't the FCC put a little pressure on these unreceivable stations that are denying waviers in various parts of the country. The stations hold a public license. It would seem that if they are going to claim you as being in their service area then it is their responsibility to make sure that you can recieve their signal. If the topography doesn't allow that then THEY have a problem and if they can't supply you then they can not legally claim you. Any lawyers out there care to comment?


I think that is part of the problem. We CAN receive their feed, just not in HD on DTV and that is not their fault. So they are not forced to grant us waivers because we make the choice to have DTV amd we could get them in HD if we went with Comcast or something. I am not a lawyer but that is what I understand is the issue.
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Old 11-30-2005, 12:22 PM   #22 (Print)
bollwerk
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As a side note, I read in another thread that the Bay area FOX station KTVU is locally owned and the owners are in bed with Comcast, so it isn't likely anyone will get a waiver from them.
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Old 11-30-2005, 07:29 PM   #23 (Print)
elbodude
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rtaheri
I live in San Jose, where the local NBC station, KNTV, just moved their antenna to ~50 miles away. The new antenna being in a slightly different direction than Sutro Tower, which broadcasts most of the other local stations, and being a VHF signal, I no longer have HD reception for NBC.

So, I called D*, and asked to get their HD NBC feed from LA. They said they would start the process for a waiver. On my own, I contacted KNTV, which, being an NBC owned and operated station, granted the waiver immediately. I faxed the waiver to D*, but they said "not so fast; you also have to get a waiver from channel 8 KSBW." Now, that's a station is Salinas, on the other side of Santa Cruz mountains. I sometimes notice a ghost on channel 8, but that's about it. I donít know of anyone in my area that watches KSBW. We are not really in their market. But it looks like they figure these things out by the distance as the crow flies.

So, I called KSBW the same way I had contacted my real local station. But KSBW didn't want to talk to me, and told me to just wait for the process to go through.

Well, I just got a post card from D*, telling me that the waiver was denied by my local TV station. Has anyone else gotten screwed by KSBW? Any recourse?

Thanks,
Reza


I am also in SJ and in the same boat. KSBW says all waiver requests must go through D*. Hmmmm......
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Old 11-30-2005, 07:57 PM   #24 (Print)
TheBigDogs
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There is no recourse, your best bet is to get in line for the LiL that's being rolled out in the Bay Area and get your HD signal that way.

The only alternative is to find out if there are any mutual advertisers for KSBW and KNTV, notify KNTV and those advertisers that you are organizing a boycot of the mutual advertisers until KNTV leans on KSBW. If one or more of those advertisers happens to be a car dealer, visit the dealership and pretend to make a deal, at the last minute, walk and tell them it's because of their support for KSBW.

For some reason, car dealers scare TV folks (they scare me too, but that's another issue).

BTW, I was the person that mentioned the COX-Comcast relationship as one reason why KTVU doesn't give waivers - the term "the owners are in bed with Comcast" is incorrect - the Cox sisters are so old and ugly, only a necrophiliac would be found in that position. :-)
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Old 11-30-2005, 08:22 PM   #25 (Print)
jrinck
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I live in Hollister, and KSBW has always come in strong here (due to their tower on Fremont Peak, no doubt), so I always understood when they denied me my waiver requests.

I'm surprised that you're being held hostage in San Jose, though. If I lived in San Jose I would have no desire for KSBW. As it is, the main differentiator for any local station and their parent company are the local newscasts, and all KSBW ever seems to focus on are gang shootings in Salinas. They do run ads for businesses in Hollister, but big whoop, we all have DVRs. Who watches commercials anymore?

So I watch KSBW for the NBC content and nothing more. I'm sure 99% of those in its signal range do the same.

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Old 12-02-2005, 12:22 AM   #26 (Print)
rtaheri
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An update to my original post. A few days after receiving a postcard that said "the local NBC station" had denied my request, I got another postcard that said the NBC, CBS, and ABC stations had granted the waiver, and the local Fox station (KTVU) had denied it. Weird because I only asked for the NBC feed (I was receiving the other two already, and knew Fox wouldn't grant it). I am not sure what happened. Did they get confused and thought I only needed the KNTV waiver? Did KSBW actually grant the waiver? You can bet that I didn't call to find out just in case it was a mistake!

BTW, someone mentioned that D* is now carrying KSBW, but not for my zip code. And that brings up an interesting point: if the station is not local enough for D* to carry for my zip code, why would D* ask them for a waiver?

Watching Law and Order in HD again,
Reza

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Old 12-02-2005, 02:16 AM   #27 (Print)
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KSBW 8 is carried by DirecTV as part of the Monterey locals.

Interestingly, since the Monterey area has no ABC to speak of, we get San Francisco channel 7.

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Old 12-02-2005, 07:13 PM   #28 (Print)
hoffa
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Finally got a response from KTVU,

"Dear Mr. Hoff,
KTVU does not grant HD waivers to viewers in our market area which covers 11 counties from Mendocino to Santa Clara. We have received emails that DirecTV has the gear necessary to view local HD and that viewers are quite satisfied with the quality of local HD signals.

Sincerely,
Patricia A. Macholl
KTVU Research Director"

Yah, show me a DTV viewer that is "quite satisfied" wtih HD. I am going to keep trying. Maybe if I bug her enough.

Last edited by hoffa : 12-02-2005 at 07:24 PM.
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Old 12-03-2005, 01:37 PM   #29 (Print)
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Note KTVU HD Waiver petition -- Sign now!!!

Hi,

Perhaps if we present a more unified request to KTVU we can get some more attention and change their mind. I'm happy to help organize something like this and present the results to them. To that end I've created a petition at petitiononline.com for DTV HD DVR customers who have been denied the KTVU waiver request. If you want to help out, just sign up!

<http://www.petitiononline.com/KTVUHDDT >
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Old 12-03-2005, 05:30 PM   #30 (Print)
hoffa
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#2

Not sure it will work but its sure worth a try.
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