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Old 08-17-2005, 10:43 AM   #1 (Print)
Fish Man
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OK Now I'm getting angry! I try to help, and get slapped for it!

I, for one, would like to help smooth things over regarding the forum change.

I would like to assist, if possible, in clarifying the purpose of this new area and possibly suggest a new name for it that doesn't get people as riled up as the current name does.

However, I and others, in a thread started for that purpose, suggest that perhaps a clearer definition of what this new area is really for might help smooth things over and help us all to understand what we should be using the new area for and we all get told to shut the heck up and the thread gets locked!!!

I thought that the people suggesting that David Bott was not open to good faith discourse about this matter were just being stubborn whiners. Now I'm not so sure!

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Old 08-17-2005, 10:45 AM   #2 (Print)
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Bes watch out...I've seen his short temper first hand..and it ain't no fun.

Let's pretend we weren't here.
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Old 08-17-2005, 10:45 AM   #3 (Print)
JayDog
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Obviously it wasn't you that caused the lock of that thread...

David asked for help, and asked for others not to 'crap' on the ideas... that's what he got (for the most part)


I laughed at about every response, but it was not helpful at all for what David was trying to do.
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Old 08-17-2005, 10:48 AM   #4 (Print)
David Bott
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Sorry Fish Man....I did say some and not all. Look at the thread, people used it just as I asked for it not to be used. Should I not have gotten upset by this and closed the thread I had asked to be helpful? I could have just removed the posts but then people would get upset about that.

Regrets you took it as you. I was not going to let it continue like that.

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Old 08-17-2005, 10:50 AM   #5 (Print)
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Maybe Unca Dave should take that as further evidence that he can call it whatever he wants - exiling threads that a few people find annoying without any real scheme or useful purpose for doing so or isn't going to get a happy reaction from the users of the forum. Whatever euphemism he chooses, it's still a Ghetto for unfavored kinds of posts.

He got crap because that's what this decision was. And the total lack of reasonble discourse about the decision by the people who made it only makes it worse. (I'm sorry, "we did it because some people have been complaining for a while and it's now done, so just live with it." does NOT constitute reasonable discourse).
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Old 08-17-2005, 10:51 AM   #6 (Print)
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My bad.

So,

I notice the name is now "The Fun House"

Not bad...

What I think we need is a sticky at the top of it explaining what goes here...

I think I'm starting to understand, but I'm still unsure...

(A "grey area" between the "fun house" and "happy hour" may be unavoidable...)

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Old 08-17-2005, 10:51 AM   #7 (Print)
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Old 08-17-2005, 10:53 AM   #8 (Print)
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Mr. Bott?

You still haven't answered the question.

What's the point of this new subforum, and what criteria will be used in deciding whether or not a thread will be moved into it?
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Old 08-17-2005, 10:56 AM   #9 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AJRitz
Maybe Unca Dave should take that as further evidence that he can call it whatever he wants - exiling threads that a few people find annoying without any real scheme or useful purpose for doing so or isn't going to get a happy reaction from the users of the forum. Whatever euphemism he chooses, it's still a Ghetto for unfavored kinds of posts.


I don't see where David indicated that these threads were "undesirable" or were moved because anyone found them "annoying".

From where I sit, he's simply trying to find a "new category" for them.

I think people reading into this that these sorts of threads are "less welcome" are reading too much in.

Suggestion to David: perhaps the impression that some people are getting that these threads are "undesirable" somehow is caused by the fact that you have the forum set up to not count posts in them toward a member's post count. Perhaps simply letting posts in this area count toward post count would render that objection to the change moot.

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Old 08-17-2005, 10:57 AM   #10 (Print)
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bryce1012...Have you read the description of the new forum? I thought it it sums it up.

As far as what is moved, well, if it kind looks and smells like a thread type game, I guess it would fit.


Fish Man...Same thought on this. The description I think tells what the section is for.

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Old 08-17-2005, 10:58 AM   #11 (Print)
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And if I turn off the post counters in the Happy Hour as also suggested, then will the same thought be made? My bet yes.

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Old 08-17-2005, 10:58 AM   #12 (Print)
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Ok, that is a much better description.

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Old 08-17-2005, 10:59 AM   #13 (Print)
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I hope I wasn't part of the cause of the closure. You could interpret my post as making fun of Bott's new forum, but I really wasn't trying to be fecetious. My post was actually serious, not joking. Well, the first line was a joke, but I couldn't resist - after that it was more serious.

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Old 08-17-2005, 11:01 AM   #14 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Bott
And if I turn off the post counters in the Happy Hour as also suggested, then will the same thought be made? My bet yes.


My vote is to keep the counters exactly as you have them. They count in Happy Hour, but they don't count in the Fun House.

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Old 08-17-2005, 11:05 AM   #15 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Bott
bryce1012...Have you read the description of the new forum? I thought it it sums it up.
Yes, I have. I think it's still a bit ambiguous, though, hence the requests for clarification.
Quote:
As far as what is moved, well, if it kind looks and smells like a thread type game, I guess it would fit.
If it "kind (of)" seems like it? You "guess" it would fit?

Well, I rest my case right there, I think.
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Old 08-17-2005, 11:13 AM   #16 (Print)
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Bryce...We all need to make choices the best we can. We can not set things like this in stone for the stone would end up being broke for not everyone has the same thoughts or views on a topic. We do the best we can. For the most part, I have to believe that people are smart enough to start a thread in an area made for it. But then again, we have people starting threads in an area that does not fit for the sole intent to make for issues.

I do not find the description at all ambiguous. Care to rewrite it. I mean really...no put downs for you do not agree on the change kind of thing...but really word it better.

Thanks

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Old 08-17-2005, 11:22 AM   #17 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Bott
And if I turn off the post counters in the Happy Hour as also suggested, then will the same thought be made? My bet yes.


IMHO.....

Since "frivolous" posts might pop up in any thread in any forum (heck, I have certainly, from time to time, posted an off topic wisecrack in a thread in the "Help forum" or "DIRECTV with TiVo" forum), and enlightened prose might occasionally pop up in an "endless" or "game" thread, I feel that it is arbitrary for post counts to be counted in some areas and not others.

IMHO post counts should count for every post in every thread in every area, or we should not have post counts at all.

And, truthfully, I'd have no complaint whatsoever if you did away with post counts completely, forum wide.

That's my opinion on the subject, for what it's worth. But, if you choose to have post counts in some areas and not others, I won't get all upset and bothered by it, or remove my avatar or outright leave the forum permanently in protest. It's nowhere near that important one way or the other.

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Old 08-17-2005, 11:29 AM   #18 (Print)
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David, you've obviously been here a lot longer than I have. You certainly have a much better perspective on running the forum and I'm sure you're trying to work in TCF's best interest. All the same, I believe there was a fundamental error that was made with this new forum.

I don't dispute the subforum itself - I can see how a thread like that "Word Association" one fits here perfectly. I can see how JediCowboy's game, or the 4-word story fit in here. That's not the problem.

The problem comes when you get to the "never-ending" part. As many people have said, time and time again, there's no way to predict when a thread will take on a life of its own and become the next "What are you thinking?" Francesco didn't mean to start a 300-page thread, he was just commenting on a good-looking weatherlady. Bigcb37 didn't mean to start his own little cult - he just wanted peace and quiet.

These aren't games. They're not clutter. They're off-topic conversations that build the community. This is what I said in my PM last night: have a games forum if you must, but don't disregard thousands of posts that have made this place great just because they happen to be grouped into one or two particular threads.

That said, here's what I'd do. I don't have hundreds of thousands of dollars to buy the forum, but if I did, this is what I'd do. I'd make the description of "The Fun House" as follows:
Quote:
Got some time to kill? Here's the area for silly game threads, movie quotes, and other amusements. We call it "Thread Games"... you will get the idea when you see what some people have come up with!
Next, I'd move the non-game threads back to Happy Hour, where they belong.

That's it. I'd leave post counts off in TFH, because true thread-games (like the chess game Doug mentioned elsewhere) do tend to jack up post counts insanely fast. I've frequented enough forums to know that.

Of course, it's your forum. And I'll stick around, I'm sure, whatever you decide to do, as will most others. We're just asking you to re-think some of the details.
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Old 08-17-2005, 11:31 AM   #19 (Print)
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I still haven't seen a reason from management for having the post count turned off in this area. Good or otherwise. If I've missed it, point me in the right direction.
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Old 08-17-2005, 11:39 AM   #20 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter000
I still haven't seen a reason from management for having the post count turned off in this area. Good or otherwise. If I've missed it, point me in the right direction.


Edit: Never Mind. Found it.
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Old 08-17-2005, 11:40 AM   #21 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bryce1012
David, you've obviously been here a lot longer than I have. You certainly have a much better perspective on running the forum and I'm sure you're trying to work in TCF's best interest. All the same, I believe there was a fundamental error that was made with this new forum.

I don't dispute the subforum itself - I can see how a thread like that "Word Association" one fits here perfectly. I can see how JediCowboy's game, or the 4-word story fit in here. That's not the problem.

The problem comes when you get to the "never-ending" part. As many people have said, time and time again, there's no way to predict when a thread will take on a life of its own and become the next "What are you thinking?" Francesco didn't mean to start a 300-page thread, he was just commenting on a good-looking weatherlady. Bigcb37 didn't mean to start his own little cult - he just wanted peace and quiet.

These aren't games. They're not clutter. They're off-topic conversations that build the community. This is what I said in my PM last night: have a games forum if you must, but don't disregard thousands of posts that have made this place great just because they happen to be grouped into one or two particular threads.

That said, here's what I'd do. I don't have hundreds of thousands of dollars to buy the forum, but if I did, this is what I'd do. I'd make the description of "The Fun House" as follows:Next, I'd move the non-game threads back to Happy Hour, where they belong.

That's it. I'd leave post counts off in TFH, because true thread-games (like the chess game Doug mentioned elsewhere) do tend to jack up post counts insanely fast. I've frequented enough forums to know that.

Of course, it's your forum. And I'll stick around, I'm sure, whatever you decide to do, as will most others. We're just asking you to re-think some of the details.



bryce states it quite well.


I think that following his suggestions would alleviate a lot of the "exile" feeling that this move initially gave off.

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Old 08-17-2005, 11:46 AM   #22 (Print)
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The Beeping House Thread. Ah, I just looked at that. What started out to be a real thing, ended up being a continuing joke as you can see, thus it was caught in the move.

I have just moved it back over to HH section for it was a real thing. But as you maybe can agree, it is no longer like that and it just a fun and games type thread.

I really do not see any others that would not be considered a thread type game. "What am I thinking" for example...It is not a game? A post made just for fun and games?

Thanks

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Old 08-17-2005, 11:54 AM   #23 (Print)
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I look at the 'Whatare you thinking' thread as more of a place where people can do just that, expess what they are feeling and thinking about at the time... I dont see that as a game, but rather a place to consolidate thoughts that could otherwise have been broken into a thousand seperate threads each time someone has a new thought....

It's friendly chit-chat... is this not what Happy Hour is all about?
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Old 08-17-2005, 11:55 AM   #24 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Bott
bryce1012...Have you read the description of the new forum? I thought it it sums it up.

As far as what is moved, well, if it kind looks and smells like a thread type game, I guess it would fit.
.


Ah, the Justice Potter Stewart line.
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Old 08-17-2005, 11:59 AM   #25 (Print)
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I, for one, believe "What are you thinking" is not a game. It is a very very long thread, but it has included so many meaningful discussions it is such a shame it is being pused to a virtual "worthless games, no redeeming value" corner. That thread sums up happy hour to me, and now it is not even in it.

I've made many a friend, been cheered up when I was depressed, learned things about other members I don't think I ever would have, etc all in that thread. Excuse me, Mr. Bott, if I have emotional attachments to it and this whole new area decision.

I understand the thread is still there. It is not gone. But the community will never be the same in those kinds of threads, and it's a damn shame.
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Old 08-17-2005, 02:53 PM   #26 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Bott
The Beeping House Thread. Ah, I just looked at that. What started out to be a real thing, ended up being a continuing joke as you can see, thus it was caught in the move.

I have just moved it back over to HH section for it was a real thing. But as you maybe can agree, it is no longer like that and it just a fun and games type thread.

I really do not see any others that would not be considered a thread type game. "What am I thinking" for example...It is not a game? A post made just for fun and games?

Thanks

Okay, today I was trying to have a better feeling about all this, but this is just totally WRONG.

The "What are you thinking" thread is in NO part a game. I can safely say it's the only part of the forum I still really enjoy (and has been for a while) simply because it's a thread where I can go in and say anything I like. I've metioned that I was feeling crappy-I get support for it. Dansee is right-he's dealt with some MAJOR life issues in that thread, and has gotten support there.

It's the only place here I feel absolutely free to say exactly what I'm feeling, good or bad. If that's a game to you, then perhaps you SHOULD get rid of Happy Hour entirely.

The feeling of community that has grown out of this forum is something you should be proud of. I've been online for many, many years and I've never run across anything like it before. You may hate it, but it's something unique.

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Old 08-17-2005, 03:25 PM   #27 (Print)
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Hi All...

Threads as such as this have runs it's course. As someone stated, beating a dead horse. I have stated the reasons for my choice and some of you really just do not care to even try to look at it.

Sorry you may disagree with the choice that was made. This thread and other like will now be closed for more or less that really have run their course and members are also now attacking other members.

Please note...To those that choose to just continue to attack the choice by making off the cuff remarks, or just want to make for issues over this and something like post counts, well, I am sorry, but I will start to suspend accounts for it does no one any good. I will not subject the site, the mods or myself to anymore of these attacks.

Thank you kindly for the thoughts on the matter. Some of them were helpful and I made changes where I could.

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