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Old 10-19-2005, 12:27 AM   #1 (Print)
garyw90
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HME for .NET?

I did a quick search, and did not see any answer to this question.

Does anyone know if someone has implemented HME for .NET? I am interested in integrating the Tivo with the PC using .NET rather than Java. Interfacing with Rendezvous looks pretty easy, so then there is implementing the HME protocol in .NET, which does not look too challenging.

Should I choose to undertake this effort, would anyone be interested in using it?
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Old 10-19-2005, 11:10 AM   #2 (Print)
kb7sei
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You'd probably get some takers. However, one reason people like Java is that it's cross-platform compatible. That makes it easy for users to use Mac and Linux to run it. I know Mono will let you do some .NET stuff on other platforms, but I'm not sure how much.

Honestly, I don't see any reason to bother, but it's your time to use as you wish. Is there any particular reason you want to use .NET? C# is basicly MS Java, C++ has it's advantages, but not enough to make it worth re-writing everything, IMO. VB seems pretty useless here, and IMO, if you can handle VB you should be able to handle Java. So I guess it just depends on your reasons for wanting to do it. All of the above have good and bad sides to writing HME apps in, in balance, I'd say they are no better or worse than Java for it.

Just all IMO. Personally, I wouldn't re-invent the wheel, so to speak.

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Old 10-19-2005, 04:36 PM   #3 (Print)
r34or87r237ab23
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I have been working on it. I have a very, very early version which does the basics.
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Old 10-21-2005, 09:18 AM   #4 (Print)
TivoMike67
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Gary, I would be very interested if you were to move forward with a NET
verion of the HME protocol. I sort of disagree with some of the comments above. Sure, we could all code in Java, but we don't. Some of us prefer what we are used to.

Let me know if you decide to move forward, I could provide some help as well.

Thanks,

Mike
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Old 10-21-2005, 09:38 AM   #5 (Print)
garyw90
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TivoMike,
I'm not going to be discouraged just because some people seem to think that because HME is developed in Java that all other implementations must therefore be based on Java as well.

I agree that one of the big points in Java is that is is multiplatform. I am not going to get into a .NET vs Java war, there are enough of those already. I think that .NET can provide value and certainly a .NET version can open up to the HME developers that work in .NET as well, whether that be (yuck) VB or C# or J# or even Delphi. I personally feel that VB is a bad language, but at the moment I am forced to use it in my current contract. Other than expressing that, I don't want to start language wars, because there are a number of people who d think VB is great.

So the answer is I think I want to investigate this further.
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Old 11-24-2005, 12:58 AM   #6 (Print)
jimox
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garyw90
Should I choose to undertake this effort, would anyone be interested in using it?


I would be very interested in using this if you develop it (I would also be willing to offer as much help as I can in my limited spare time)!
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Old 11-27-2005, 01:56 AM   #7 (Print)
garyw90
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At this point I have accomplished a significant amount of work towards this. I have been thinking about how to build a higher level user interface on top of the lower level interface. I would like this to fit as close as possible to .NET programming, particularly with Windows Forms, but at the same time I am not convinced that this can be done. Especially with how the Tivo have some value added features such as animation. The low level interface might seem more suited as a GDI driver to me, but then the event sent back from the Tivo don't fit well with Windows Forms events.

I can do pretty much everything that is in the HME spec, including animation, True Type fonts, colors, views, etc. Some bugs in large fonts, which I'll get figured out.

I've been a bit quiet on this and sitting on the implementation because I'm just not sure I am ready to release anything yet.
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Old 11-27-2005, 05:01 PM   #8 (Print)
DancnDude
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I just wanted to chime in and say I for one very much appreciate this effort. Being a purely .NET (C#) developer, there is a huge benefit being able to program this in a familiar Visual Studio environment rather than needing to learn a whole new IDE. I have nothing against Java but this will be a great option for those of us who don't work with it.

I do a lot of work in Windows Forms and if this could even be similar (drag and drop "TiVo" controls maybe) would be so cool and easy to develop for. I look forward to your implementation when you are ready for release.

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Old 11-27-2005, 10:36 PM   #9 (Print)
montyvo
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Hi,

I think a .NET version should be possible. I haven't seen anything with the SDK that implies anything that couldn't be done in .NET. And communication to the tivo box gets down to an 'on the wire' format of some kind.

I assume the source is available for the HME SDK. Couldn't the java source be ported to J# and then called from any .net compatible language?

Probably too simple and naive on my part, but it would be easier for me to do C# than re-learn java over again.

]Monty[
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Old 11-30-2005, 11:25 PM   #10 (Print)
garyw90
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DancnDude,
I totally get what you are thinking about the "Drag and Drop" way to create a Tivo application using Visual Studio. A gut feeling tells me that this would be a significant effort... designers to start with, a whole new set of Tivo controls. I have extensive knowledge of .NET and VS and I'm pretty quick on a lot of things, but even so, off the top of my head, this seems like it could take a few weeks to make this work.

As someone who has my own software development company, I am certainly capable of doing this. But as someone who is earning his income as a contractor at the moment, to take the time to do something like that for free doesn't make sense. If Tivo on the other hand was interested in something like this and was willing to compensate me for it, then I would be able to find the time to make it happen.

Montyvo,
If Tivo provided the source code for the SDK, you could run it through one of the several Java-to-C# converters. However, since they so not, that is not really an option. I'm sure you could get a Java decompiler to reproduce the source code, and then try to port that to .NET, but the protocol is relatively straightforward and I have not had a problem implementing it. In fact, using .NET, I was able to take advantage of some of its features such as the events and asynchronous I/O not found in Java. With some of the ideas of creating a higher level user interface, perhaps even Visual Studio designers, the SDK becomes a much smaller part of the bigger puzzle.
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Old 12-01-2005, 12:06 AM   #11 (Print)
F8ster
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Quote:
If Tivo provided the source code for the SDK, you could run it through one of the several Java-to-C# converters. However, since they so not, that is not really an option.


The source is included with the SDK. Unzip the SDK and look for src.zip in the root of the unzipped contents.
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Old 12-01-2005, 01:27 AM   #12 (Print)
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I certainly don't want to imply that you should spend so much work on your own developing that...I know it would be a large undertaking. If you do, more power to you, but I know that wouldn't be my idea of how to spend my free time I was just saying that it would be cool though

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Old 12-01-2005, 03:11 PM   #13 (Print)
montyvo
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garyw90

Yeah, the source is available, but if you've already done the protocol natively, then why waste the time with a port.

I jumped into this thread because I was mistakenly looking at the SDK for doing things like getting a Now playing list and downloading shows to the PC. I now understand that that functionality is done using the web interface and you don't need the sdk for it. Doing the http request etc in .Net should be easy enough.

I'm looking forward to whatever .Net support you guys develop, though.

Thanks
]Monty[
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Old 12-01-2005, 10:53 PM   #14 (Print)
garyw90
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I stand corrected on the source files. Thank you for pointing that out.

If I had done a straight port based on a semi-blind port of the source files, the result would have looked like that. As it is, I took a few liberties in how I implemented some things, such as using classes from the System.Drawing namespace (like fonts, point, rectangles, colors and images), such that the result seems a little more native to .NET.

I'll keep you guys posted on how things are coming along.
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Old 12-28-2005, 10:43 PM   #15 (Print)
asills
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Any updates?

I have been doing some preliminary work on using the VS NET IDE for our company's products so I've been digging pretty deep into creating documents, etc for VS2005

If you're still working on this and have anything to share, I could help
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