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Old 12-24-2005, 11:56 PM   #1 (Print)
Jasoco
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Question Why doesn't stand-alone TiVo have Component?? Or is it no biggie?

I used to use my TiVo with RF. My old TV didn't have nothing except RF and RCA. And there was no difference between them, so I figured (Ignorantly) that I was getting the best picture from my TiVo.

Then in August I got a brand new (Non-HD) 27" Sylvania flat TV with S-Video and Component.

So one day I decided to hook my Series 2 (Old style black front vertical lights) to the S-Video for the hell of it.... man was I glad I did that. For hours (Hyperbole) I sat there switching between channel 3 (RF) and the S-Video channel amazed at the amazing difference and clarity in the picture. Not the best picture, but hell, the letters were actually white and clear on the S-Video! I had never noticed it or knew what I was missing.

But now I'm curious... why doesn't the regular TiVo have Component out? Not HD mind you, I don't have HD at all, won't for years, but would like to know if I'm really missing a better picture. I have my DVD player hooked to the Component now and it looks amazing. I can't help wonder what my TiVo would look like on this specific TV.

Plus, I'd just like to use the S-Video for my video game consoles, so I'd love the free input.

Any technical reason? I'm not talking about Component In on the TiVo, just output. I'd love to see. Who knows, there might not even be any real difference, but how can I know unless I see for myself?
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Old 12-25-2005, 02:59 AM   #2 (Print)
litzdog911
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You wouldn't see much if any difference between SVideo and component video using standard definition (480i) video. Component video is essential, though, for higher definition sources at 720p or 1080i. That's why some DVD players (which can upscale to 480p or higher) include component video, as do most all HiDef video sources.

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Old 12-25-2005, 05:12 AM   #3 (Print)
Justin Thyme
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There are component outputs on the Toshiba DVD recorder Tivo as well as (I believe) the humax. For Tivo Recorded material, I didn't see any difference between component and SVideo. However, when TivoBack came along, I was able to play 720x480 files out on the Component video lines and the video was stunning. Perhaps it was the test video itself- it was a graphics workstation generated simulation of the Mars Rover, and the detail in the original was exagerated- impossibly crisp focus on all details. Anyway- huge difference between SVideo and Component.

I suppose when we get a lot of excess video processor muscle in future Tivos, we will see much more appreciation for Component because such a Tivo would be able to do nicely upscaled video, and cleanup of compression and transmission artifacts.
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Old 12-25-2005, 07:39 AM   #4 (Print)
pdhenry
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin Thyme
There are component outputs on the Toshiba DVD recorder Tivo as well as (I believe) the humax.
Not the Humax.

http://www.humaxusa.com/T800_FINAL.pdf

RCA and S-Video.
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Old 12-25-2005, 09:42 AM   #5 (Print)
davezatz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pdhenry
Not the Humax.


The Humax DVD models have component and optical. Atleast the one that FedEx brought to me yesterday does.

My new Humax burner is ugly on the outsite, but it trumps the Toshiba DVD player it is replacing on the inside. Took about at least half a dozen tries, but I finally got through guided setup using my Vonage line... and now I'm up on my insecure WEP network. Once everyone gets back from the holidays, the Tosh hits ebay and I should break even with swapping models.

Back to the original topic, another Toshiba player briefly powered my (former) home theater projector using component. DVD's (and maybe the TiVo menus?) looked very good, but the standard def analog TV looked the same (ie: tolerable, not good) as using SVideo.
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Old 12-25-2005, 10:58 AM   #6 (Print)
retired_guy
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The Pioneer DVD burner TiVos have component output also. I assume its part of the specification for a TiVo burner.

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Old 12-26-2005, 07:47 AM   #7 (Print)
pdhenry
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Granted, but the OP is asking about stand-alone.
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Old 12-26-2005, 01:31 PM   #8 (Print)
Justin Thyme
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To the OP's question- my educated guess is that there is no technical reason for not providing component out. The DVD burner Tivos use nearly identical circuitry and provide Component output. Further, I know from studying the literature on the chip that does the Mpeg decoding that it does provide Component output.

But although it is possible, Litzdog rightly pointed out that it doesn't matter because it wouldn't provide any improvement for the stuff you recorded. Since the Tivo is recording using inputs (RF, SVideo, or Composite) that are lower resolution that component, you aren't going to get a picture that is any better than what your input signal was.

You could see a difference for the rare case of folks playing high resolution video downloaded from the internet. But the software available to play such content ("TivoBack" feature in 7.2) has only been available for 3 months. This video can be higher resolution than the Tivo's inputs allow, and it would be theoretically crisper along the horizontal, but I assume this would not be the case along the vertical, since the SA Tivo does not have the software option to enable output of progressive video as does the DVD burner Tivos. And it makes sense you don't have that option since the SA only has output connectors that do interlaced. So is really splitting hairs. There is (at least to my eyes) a slight difference when you send 720x480i output via SVideo versus Component but you couldn't see it on typical TVs even if they did have component inputs because they typically do not resolve detail greater than what corresponds to a physical resolution of 600 dots on the horizontal. There is a great deal of debate about effective resolutions amongst videophiles on avsforum.com.

In the future? Because you can get Hidef video on the net, and because chips capable of high definition decoding are relatively inexpensive, from a technical perspective you could see Component outputs on even the least expensive Tivos.

But they might not appear for a while because it would be useless capability until higher definition video (at least 480P) becomes available. I'd settle for a SD content for now.

Last edited by Justin Thyme : 12-26-2005 at 01:39 PM.
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Old 12-26-2005, 02:52 PM   #9 (Print)
ZeoTiVo
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yep, as Justin Thyme pointed out the SD stand alone TiVo without a DVD in it does not warrant a component output as it would provide no better picture than Svideo. The HUMAX stand alone is the same thing.

now the TiVos with DVD in them have component out for the better picture of a DVD player and the TiVo recorded shows will play over same output so you do not need two hookups to the TV. I have the Toshiba DVD burner TiVo and hooked up via component but the recorded shows are the same as svideo on my SD TV.

the new cable card TiVos will most likely have component out and will benefit the digital copy straight to the hard drive. drool.

PS - wonder if Dave is liking the playback of a DVD on his new Humax DVD TiVo ?
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Old 12-26-2005, 03:51 PM   #10 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeoTiVo
the new cable card TiVos will most likely have component out and will benefit the digital copy straight to the hard drive. drool.


HDMI too.

Quote:
PS - wonder if Dave is liking the playback of a DVD on his new Humax DVD TiVo ?

Yep, most definitely! It feels like complete, unified software/interface... compared to the SD-H400 DVD integration which is flaky and unpolished. Haven't burned any DVD's yet, but I'm sure I will before too long. I do miss the Toshiba remote... other than the odd placement of the zero it's superior to the peanut. (Especially when playing WordGrid.)
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Old 12-26-2005, 08:29 PM   #11 (Print)
Jasoco
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Yes, I am talking about stand-alone. But it seems that my question has been answered. With the TV I have, I'm already getting as good a picture from my TiVo as I'm going to get with S-Video. Which is still much nicer and clearer than RF and RCA were.

Thanks, guys.

Hopefully, in like 20 years when I finally am able to afford a HD TV, I will also have an HD TiVo. For now, I'm content.
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Old 12-27-2005, 03:27 AM   #12 (Print)
etsolow
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davezatz
Yep, most definitely! It feels like complete, unified software/interface... compared to the SD-H400 DVD integration which is flaky and unpolished.

I often yearn for the Tivo interface while I'm watching DVDs. Do you get the full trick-play functionality on DVDs? I'd almost consider buying one of these and running it un-subbed as just a DVD player, is that possible?
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Old 12-27-2005, 07:29 PM   #13 (Print)
Jasoco
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I've wondered that myself. Why the heck don't DVD remotes have an instant replay button? I want to see the last 6 seconds again. And I don't want to have to press reverse, hit play, hope it is in the right place, hit reverse again because it wasn't far enough, hit play, hit forward because it was too far, hit play and find out I missed it again, hit reverse, hit.. you get the idea.
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Old 12-27-2005, 07:40 PM   #14 (Print)
ZeoTiVo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by etsolow
I often yearn for the Tivo interface while I'm watching DVDs. Do you get the full trick-play functionality on DVDs? I'd almost consider buying one of these and running it un-subbed as just a DVD player, is that possible?


I know it does on ones that aslo come with TiVo basic. I do not know exactly about the HUMAX model that does not come with TiVo baisc. My guess is the DVD playback would still work. On any of the DVD burner TiVo DVRs it is completely like the TiVo interface. I am not sure it is an 8 sec skip back though as it depends on how the key frames are done, but it is a very handy thing to skip back 6 to 10 secs. (I think Hitch was one where skip back did not work due to some funky way they did the key frames.)

one of the best things about the Toshiba RS TX20 I have

NOTE - the Toshiba SD H400 does not have the TiVo interface of DVD plaback but the basic kind of playback you see on most DVD players. A careful read of Dave's post will show this.
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Old 12-28-2005, 09:41 AM   #15 (Print)
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the Humax offers the same controls in tivo mode as dvd mode - ff, ffx3, 10s back, etc.
Quite nice

And the dvd's burned from the Humax have menu's that mimic the tivo interface as close as it can. Pretty nice.

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Old 12-28-2005, 06:38 PM   #16 (Print)
petew
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pdhenry
Not the Humax.

http://www.humaxusa.com/T800_FINAL.pdf

RCA and S-Video.


This is a link to the T800, Humax Brand SA Tivo without DVD recorder. The DVD Recorder model is the DRT800, which, as has already been stated, has component output.

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Old 12-28-2005, 07:23 PM   #17 (Print)
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One of the nice things I've found with my Pioneer burner is that probably 99% of the blank DVDs burn OK (and I always buy the cheapest blanks that Frys sells and have burned hundreds of them). And the component interface supports 480p as well as 480i, so that movies, etc. that were recording in 480p look really good. Anything burned on the box itself, however, only burns at 480i. In "high" mode, you can only burn two hours on one blank (although you can burn extra minutes on additional blanks) and in "best" mode, one blank only holds one hour. "Basic" and "medium" burn longer shows, although I never use these modes due to their reduced video quality which hurts too much for me on a 62" set.

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Old 12-28-2005, 08:03 PM   #18 (Print)
pdhenry
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petew
This is a link to the T800, Humax Brand SA Tivo without DVD recorder. The DVD Recorder model is the DRT800, which, as has already been stated, has component output.
As intended.

Since the thread title was about outputs on the stand-alone TiVo, I had read Justin Thyme's mention of
Quote:
as well as (I believe) the humax
to refer to the Humax stand-alone T800.
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Old 12-28-2005, 08:04 PM   #19 (Print)
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I have an SD-H400 and I would be in TiVo-Heaven if the DVD player just supported the 8-sec replay. That's the only thing I really want.
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