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Old 09-02-2005, 10:42 AM   #1 (Print)
6022tivo
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HDTV, Only Sky???

Hello all.

Well I have decided on a HDTV, it will not be out till next month.

Initially I wanted only something to connect my xbox 360 up to. But have now delved too deep, so a quickie question.

We all know Sky HD is on its way, but ...

I hear that BBC are doing something separate to Sky???? Confirm anyone??

Is this going to be a separate Dish based receiver (like a fancy freeview??)

Or is it going to be on Freeview (bandwidth).


Also while I am on, are Telewest, NTL planning a HD box soon?. (Q Carl minus his notes).

Any ideas chaps on the future and dates of this HD banter?

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Old 09-02-2005, 12:10 PM   #2 (Print)
Automan
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Perhaps they will manage it after the prehistoric freeview system is fully rolled out in 2012.

Their only option I imagine in the short term is via a dish.

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Old 09-02-2005, 12:29 PM   #3 (Print)
sanderton
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The BBC will be broadcasting using the Sky HD infrastructure & EPG but free - as they do with SD.


Ther will be HD on cable soon, but don't expect it on Freeview before 2013.

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Old 09-02-2005, 03:27 PM   #4 (Print)
6022tivo
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Hmm, maybe go the SKY HD route and drop to the £15 minimum until the twelve months are up, that if it is possible. I remember the SKY+ extra £10, but free if you sub to a premium channel..

Am I right in suspecting Sky have not yet announced costs and plans???

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Old 09-02-2005, 03:44 PM   #5 (Print)
sanderton
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No announcement.

Expect Sky+ (the SD version) to be the standard install next year, and no non-PVR box available, with HD being the premium - £10 would be my guess, but only available on top of the full Sky World package.

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Old 09-02-2005, 03:49 PM   #6 (Print)
6022tivo
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May just carry on using my tivo, (will get round to the mode 0 stuff)...

Just a shame the new HDTV I am looking at, now I have made my mind up, is a expensive XBOX 360 player..

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Old 09-02-2005, 03:55 PM   #7 (Print)
sanderton
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You may well find that the TiVo created digital artifacts are much more noticeable on your new TV.

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Old 09-02-2005, 04:03 PM   #8 (Print)
6022tivo
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At the moment I use a 100hz TV, that is getting on my b00bs.

For xbox playing the shades are all digital, and grainy.

For example playing Ghost Recon 2 (probably lost most of you??) The rainy maps are just impossible to play due to the digital storage/shading on the screen, hard to explain.

I know some 100hz sets allow 100hz to be turned off, but this will not, unless any one knows of a engineers menu. It is a 32" LG 100Hz, with a Phillips Tube, do not have the correct model No to hand. I am happy with the Tivo output on it, unless it is football, then I try and watch live and use the Aux bypass.

I have briefly read about the Mode 0 fix causing more artifacts on bigger sets??. I will have to read again, and make my mind up.


My new one will be the 6th Generation Plasma from Pioneer, the 436 due out end of Sept, with the XDE media box. Yummy.

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Old 09-02-2005, 04:58 PM   #9 (Print)
Automan
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I see your new TV choice is 1024 x 768 pixels as is my new Panasonic.

With my XBMC hooked up in 1080i it says 1920x1080 1080i 16:9

My question is are our new TV's just reducing the quality from 1920x1080 to 1024x768 pixels?

If yes, have I / are you making a good choice?

P.S.
Tivo does look a bit shabby compared with the picture from Sky+ (I also have not tried mode 0 btw).

Automan.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6022tivo
At the moment I use a 100hz TV, that is getting on my b00bs.

For xbox playing the shades are all digital, and grainy.

For example playing Ghost Recon 2 (probably lost most of you??) The rainy maps are just impossible to play due to the digital storage/shading on the screen, hard to explain.

I know some 100hz sets allow 100hz to be turned off, but this will not, unless any one knows of a engineers menu. It is a 32" LG 100Hz, with a Phillips Tube, do not have the correct model No to hand. I am happy with the Tivo output on it, unless it is football, then I try and watch live and use the Aux bypass.

I have briefly read about the Mode 0 fix causing more artifacts on bigger sets??. I will have to read again, and make my mind up.


My new one will be the 6th Generation Plasma from Pioneer, the 436 due out end of Sept, with the XDE media box. Yummy.
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Old 09-02-2005, 05:17 PM   #10 (Print)
6022tivo
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It is a close call with the panny, like the separate media box with the Pioneer, and I have spoken to pioneer customer relations this week, normal (non 0870 type no). Spend about 20 mins and they are great, help make my mind up.

Re the resolution, I am going to double check this...


Have used sky+ for a year, and yep, quality is much much better in many ways. My time with Sky+ was a bad one. Pushed a 120GB drive in which was ok, then the SW update messed it up with the 17 min fault (I understand this is now fixed??). Also had a engineer out twice for different problems, and they did not know what what they were doing. Also the customer service when speaking to them was really crap... May be tempted with the Sky HD??. We will see. I have read on another forum that the BBC show some programs in the US in HD already and have been recording this way for ages, so people who are expecting very little HD at first may be surprised.

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Old 09-02-2005, 05:59 PM   #11 (Print)
sanderton
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The TV will be downscaling the 1080 signal. Whether it is better to have the TV do that or set the XBox to 720p I don't know, but I'd guess it would be better to have the XBox set lower res.

I'm curious about how these 768 line TVs are going to del with 720 line broadcasts. Will they scale 720 to 768 or run letterboxed (or give you the option).

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Old 09-03-2005, 05:00 AM   #12 (Print)
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So, to get a maximum quality picture from a 1080i signal you need a TV panel / monitor that is 1920x1080 pixels native mode.

I see 1920x1080 Plasma & LCD monitors are now common in the USA with fairly low prices.

Infact, my brother in the USA just got one to out do me

ADDED Link
http://www.beststuff.com/articles/7987/

Automan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sanderton
The TV will be downscaling the 1080 signal. Whether it is better to have the TV do that or set the XBox to 720p I don't know, but I'd guess it would be better to have the XBox set lower res.

I'm curious about how these 768 line TVs are going to del with 720 line broadcasts. Will they scale 720 to 768 or run letterboxed (or give you the option).

Last edited by Automan : 09-03-2005 at 05:12 AM.
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Old 09-03-2005, 06:17 AM   #13 (Print)
6022tivo
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I did have a post in a AV forum, a reply is below. Will have to read it again, to get my head around it.

1920x1080 pixel Plasma Displays are a while away yet - and likely to cost a small fortune to begin with.

1920x1080i is an Interlaced signal and as such you will always have to 'process' that signal to display it on whatever Plasma Display you decide to purchase as Plasma Displays are inherently 'Progressive' devices so show Frames not Fields.

There are a few large format (42" and above) 1920x1080P Display devices on the market - though they are either LCD or DLP. The LCD models are pretty expensive compared to the DLP models.

I take it your looking at 43" PlasmaTV as your discussing 1024x768 pixel arrays - many of the 50" PlasmaTV/Displays have 1366x768 or 1280x768 pixel arrays.

1920x1080P source signals will be pretty rare for a while yet (and there are variations on that signal anyway) so very few of the Display manufacturers are rushing to fill that market just yet.

A 1920x1080P or 1920x1080i source signal looks very good when Input and converted for display on 1366x768, 1280x768, 1280x720 and even 1024x768 pixel arrays.

The Pioneer 06 XDE range (50" and 43") will accept and display 1920x1080i 60Hz, 1920x1080i 50Hz and also 1920x1080P 24fps signals on both of its HDMI Input sockets - which should cover you for the foreseeable future.

Whilst LCD can now deliver 1920x1080P pixel arrays they still have a bit of catching up on Plasma in terms of contrast and fast motion video processing - the latest 1080P DLP 'SmoothPicture' RPTV's may be worth investigating (though please note many of the 1920x1080P DLP RPTV's wont actually accept a 1920x1080P Input signal - perversely they only work with 1080i signals).

Its very simple - really

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Old 09-03-2005, 06:26 PM   #14 (Print)
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Along with the channels Sky have announced (Sky One, Sky Sports, Sky Movies, Sky Box Office and Artsworld) - which are all now Sky operated - Discovery have also apparently announced an HD mixed genre channel (presumably like Discovery Theater HD in the US)

The BBC haven't made a public announcement yet - though most expect something like an HD version of BBC One (at least in peak time) or a "Best of BBC HD" service. Initially this would have to be provided in a form that Sky HD viewers would be able to watch.
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Old 12-01-2005, 10:13 AM   #15 (Print)
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HDTV arrives in the UK via Telewest

Telewest unveils new PVR and UK's first high definition TV service
"Britain's first high definition (HD) TV service is now available to selected Telewest households, as the cable company today begins installing its HD-ready personal video recorder (PVR) - called TVDrive - into the first paying customers' homes."

Full details on my site.

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Old 12-14-2005, 12:26 PM   #16 (Print)
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I was just reading 6022tivo's post (yeah, I'm a slow reader).

It mentions refresh rates of 50Hz and 60Hz.

Would HDTV benefit from a 100Hz refresh rate?

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Old 12-15-2005, 04:44 AM   #17 (Print)
sanderton
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No. 100Hz is the solution to interlace flicker for CRT TVs; HDTV (in the UK) are all progressive panels.

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Old 12-15-2005, 04:57 AM   #18 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanderton
No. 100Hz is the solution to interlace flicker for CRT TVs; HDTV (in the UK) are all progressive panels.


Hmm - 100Hz is not really designed to reduce 25Hz interlace flicker, it is designed to reduce 50Hz large-area flicker, which would be just as prevalent with a 50Hz progressive CRT display.

It is true that the 100Hz field-rate doubling process, that creates a 576/100i display on most 100Hz CRT displays also usually increases the interlace flicker to 50Hz, thus also reducing its visibility. However interlace flicker is not deemed as much of a problem as 50Hz large area flicker - so 100Hz is usually promoted as a large area flicker reduction solution!

Most HD displays use progressive rather than interlaced panels certainly - however the lack of 100Hz refresh rate being a requirement isn't because they are progressive, it is because the display technologies don't have the same characteristics as phosphor-decay / persistence of vision based CRTs. (LCDs have inherent lag, DLPs don't scan in the same way, Plasmas run at much higher refresh rates using sub-fields - though this can still register as flicker in my experience)
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