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Old 08-01-2005, 02:29 PM   #91 (Print)
akaye
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hefe
I have to say though, that the whole "guy fires or aims at target only to have someone out of frame take the shot" thing is becomeing quite cliche. It happened twice in this episode, and seems to happen in a lot in shows in general. It's to the point that I'm expecting after any shot for the camera to pan toward the "real shooter."


Stuff like that makes the rare REALLY good gun moments in movies very memorable.

The Indiana Jones vs. Cairo Swordsman in RotLA, for one.

Han Solo immediately drawing and firing on Vader in SW:ESB, for another.

Hey...both are Harrison Ford moments...cool....
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Old 08-01-2005, 02:34 PM   #92 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akaye
Stuff like that makes the rare REALLY good gun moments in movies very memorable.

The Indiana Jones vs. Cairo Swordsman in RotLA, for one.

Han Solo immediately drawing and firing on Vader in SW:ESB, for another.

Hey...both are Harrison Ford moments...cool....

The Indy Jones one was classic. It was only done that way because Harrison Ford had dysentery and was too weak to do the scripted fight.

Another good one was Mal Reynolds in the Firefly pilot.

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Old 08-01-2005, 03:00 PM   #93 (Print)
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Originally Posted by hereafter
Also, I'm beginning to think that Tigh's wife is indeed another of the new cylon models and that when (the currently deposed) President Roslin is actually able to detect these cylons when she's not under the influence of the drug she takes to ease the pain, remain lucid, have visions, etc. She complained of this intense ringing in her head when Tigh's wife was visiting her cell. The very second the door closed behind her as she left the brig, the ringing in her head stopped. I think that ringing was her built-in cylon alarm going off in a cylon's presence.

I wonder if she can tell instantly what it would take Baltar 11 hours to determine, whether someone is a cylon or not (and that's assuming his detector would even give the correct results), when she's not hopped up on her hallucinogenic drug, that is...

-hereafter


I love it! Nice theory...

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Old 08-01-2005, 03:13 PM   #94 (Print)
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Originally Posted by getbak
It really made me question if perhaps both Roslin and Ellen are cylons...


I like the idea that Roslin is a Cylon. She could have been programmed to it fit the prophesied roll she is playing.
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Old 08-01-2005, 03:17 PM   #95 (Print)
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I don't think Ellen is a Cylon. She strikes me as too self-serving and reaching for her own personal gains to be a Cylon. In fact, she reminds me very much of Edie, from Desperate Housewives. Sexually charged, personally motivated, and with zero moral restraint.

(Actually, Samsara introduced me to the idea that Ellen isn't a Cylon... but I'm starting to agree with it)

Anyway, I think she's just a Red Herring, and we'll end up finding out she's just plain evil instead of Cylon Evil.

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Old 08-01-2005, 04:53 PM   #96 (Print)
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Coincidence?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skittles
Sexually charged, personally motivated, and with zero moral restraint.


I think you just described 6...
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Old 08-01-2005, 04:58 PM   #97 (Print)
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Originally Posted by tanstaafl
I suggest you go here. All you will ever want to know. (You may have to change the pulldown at the top to "show all episodes" in order to get back to the miniseries.)

The person who covered the miniseries didn't seem to like it much but the one covering the series is definitely a fan.



From that site:

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and Billy figures that a religious nutbar might be just the guy to score some drugs for the Prez.


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Old 08-01-2005, 05:22 PM   #98 (Print)
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I think this point has been made many times:

the cylons have so far not shown any HINT of ability to clone existing people and re-insert them into the population without everyone else noticing it...

the president has been a public figure (minor figure, but public nonetheless) for YEARS...Tigh's wife has been his wife for decades, right?

same with Apollo...

the only cylon we know that was inserted into the population was Boomer and she was inserted as the only child survivor of a disaster that killed everyone she knows...

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Old 08-01-2005, 05:39 PM   #99 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anubys
I think this point has been made many times:

the cylons have so far not shown any HINT of ability to clone existing people and re-insert them into the population without everyone else noticing it...

the president has been a public figure (minor figure, but public nonetheless) for YEARS...Tigh's wife has been his wife for decades, right?

same with Apollo...

the only cylon we know that was inserted into the population was Boomer and she was inserted as the only child survivor of a disaster that killed everyone she knows...


We don't know that Roslin has been around anymore or less than Boomer; or how long the Cylons have been working their plan. Any Cylon plant will have to have a convincing back-story for their own head and for those around them. Also, there was the PR guy who was "inserted into the population" then left behind, and then a copy came aboard as a suicide bomber (who must also have been "inserted" at some point)
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Old 08-01-2005, 06:13 PM   #100 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by getbak
In this episode, did anyone else find the encounter between Roslin and Ellen Tigh to be strange? Roslin got a very strong headache when she was in close contact with Ellen, and it went away almost instantly when Ellen left.

It reminded me of when you put a microphone too close to a speaker and you get a very shrill feedback. It really made me question if perhaps both Roslin and Ellen are cylons, since we know that cylons have some sort of internal transmitter, it's possible that Roslin's cancer is screwing up her transmitter in some way. It's also possible that Ellen knew exactly what was going to happen when her husband allowed the quorum in to see Roslin because it was part of the plan.


I was thinking about the same thing at that point. Although I don't think roslyn is a cylon, ellen very well could be to my way of thinking.

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Old 08-01-2005, 06:51 PM   #101 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PJO1966
I was REALLY sorry to see CrashDown get shot.

I'm still thoroughly enjoying this show. I do wish we could have seen what was happening on Caprica. It will be interesting to see what happens on Kobol when StarBuck eventually gets back with the arrow.

It's hard to believe, but the actress who plays Ellen looks like she's had even more plastic surgery. She's was scary before, now she's downright frightening.



I think she's hot!


Why in God's name would you put Adama in a coma for 5 shows?! I say the whole reason these epidodes have been "meh" is that Adama isn't there chewing up the scenery, the whole show drags. They've got him they should use him.
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Old 08-01-2005, 07:05 PM   #102 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thaed
I think she's hot!


Why in God's name would you put Adama in a coma for 5 shows?! I say the whole reason these epidodes have been "meh" is that Adama isn't there chewing up the scenery, the whole show drags. They've got him they should use him.


Don't forget Starbuck- Her absence is sorely missed. Put both of them together in Adama's wardroom and the heat is incredible!

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Old 08-01-2005, 07:23 PM   #103 (Print)
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I just want to make a side note here:
Has anybody seen the video from NASA in the last week taken by the shuttle to check the insulation (or lack of) on the external fuel tank (big, orange thing) as it fell back to Earth? The way it looked with the clouds rushing by underneath it as the camera tracked the tank and maintained focus looks just like similar shots from BSG.

Either kudos to the SFX guys on BSG for doing such an accurate job on the show or kudos to the SFX guys at NASA!!

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Old 08-01-2005, 08:07 PM   #104 (Print)
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Ellen Tigh, Kate Vernon, did a guest appearance on ST Voyager. She was Valerie Archer from Star Fleet Academy.

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Old 08-01-2005, 09:00 PM   #105 (Print)
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Hey, wassup with the bitch with the ride?
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Old 08-01-2005, 10:31 PM   #106 (Print)
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Here's one reason why I like this show so much: I honestly thought the chief might bite it and it actually suprised me when he didn't.

I also thought Baltar really grew in this episode and as Six said, he became a man. I get this feeling he may come back and smack the president around or something. Basically he won't follow on the Rosilin as prophet stuff like the rest of the leaders.

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Old 08-01-2005, 10:35 PM   #107 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anubys
the president has been a public figure (minor figure, but public nonetheless) for YEARS...Tigh's wife has been his wife for decades, right?
Negatory on that, Ghost Rider. Ellen and Saul broke up long before the miniseries, and she is Col. Tighe's Ex wife (still is). Also, she has a long period of time where she claims to have been unconscious after the Cylon's initial attack, and was then re-inserted into the population.

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Old 08-01-2005, 10:45 PM   #108 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bonscott87
Here's one reason why I like this show so much: I honestly thought the chief might bite it and it actually suprised me when he didn't.
Same here... they even cued up some dramatic "death music", and I told my wife, "well, he's about to die."

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Old 08-02-2005, 06:11 AM   #109 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bonscott87
Here's one reason why I like this show so much: I honestly thought the chief might bite it and it actually suprised me when he didn't.

Huh. That's actually the sign of a good show! If you believe the stable characters are actually in danger of being written out due to the progress of the storyline (as opposed to you heard in the media that the actor wanted to leave), then that's compellnig television.

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Old 08-02-2005, 06:35 AM   #110 (Print)
Anubys
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Quote:
Originally Posted by latrobe7
We don't know that Roslin has been around anymore or less than Boomer; or how long the Cylons have been working their plan. Any Cylon plant will have to have a convincing back-story for their own head and for those around them. Also, there was the PR guy who was "inserted into the population" then left behind, and then a copy came aboard as a suicide bomber (who must also have been "inserted" at some point)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Skittles
Negatory on that, Ghost Rider. Ellen and Saul broke up long before the miniseries, and she is Col. Tighe's Ex wife (still is). Also, she has a long period of time where she claims to have been unconscious after the Cylon's initial attack, and was then re-inserted into the population.


The last war ended 40 years ago...even if the cylons started immediately, they can't grow someone older than 40 years unless they can accelerate growth...all the models we've seen are younger than 40...Boomer also spoke of indoctrination as a child...Nobody knew the PR guy so he was an easy insert...

Ellen and Saul broke up but Saul has known Ellen for a long time...The president has spoken of being a public figure for years...Apollo obviously has Adama, who has known him since birth...these people cannot be an insert (including Adama), they would have to be clones of the real thing since the real thing must have existed and people knew them before the cylon plan was put into motion...

that's all I'm saying, they have not shown an ability to clone an existing person and replace them...they have shown an ability to create a back story of someone that no one knows about and insert them into the population...Boomer and PR guy fit the bill, Ellen and Apollo do not...the jury is still out on the president since we don't know her entire back story yet, but I think she's too old given the time between the two wars...

so unless cylons can clone existing people, Adama, Apollo, the President, Ellen, Tigh, the guy who used to play Apollo in the OS (the terrorist who is now one of the 12 leaders), and the doctor cannot be cylons...

Gaeta, starbuck, the president's aide, the cute black girl he likes, the Chief, the Chief's assistant, the medic that appeared on Kobol,...etc. are all candidates as agents...

did I leave anyone out?

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Old 08-02-2005, 06:38 AM   #111 (Print)
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Whoa, whoa, whoa, big fella. Nothing has been established regarding whether or not Cylons have to grow human models from birth or can form them full grown. You're way out on a limb with all your suppositions there.

In fact, I believe the whole "getting Cylons pregnant" thing is their next step because they can't have babies. They probably can create full grown Cylons. What they want next is babies.

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Old 08-02-2005, 06:45 AM   #112 (Print)
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Originally Posted by IndyJones1023
Whoa, whoa, whoa, big fella. Nothing has been established regarding whether or not Cylons have to grow human models from birth or can form them full grown. You're way out on a limb with all your suppositions there.

In fact, I believe the whole "getting Cylons pregnant" thing is their next step because they can't have babies. They probably can create full grown Cylons. What they want next is babies.


I don't think they make babies, but I do think they make them "young" and need time to "grow" them...the young description can be related to emotional, not physical state...this is what Boomer said to Helo on Caprica...she talked about being young and used the word "indoctrinated" as she questioned her set of beliefs and tried to reach out to him in a moment of self-doubt and soul searching...so this implies some sort of brain washing or "school of cylon" for a lack of a better word...all the models we have seen are younger than the 40 year gap...

so my assumptions are based in fact...still, they are assumptions...

there is absolutely not one shred of evidence or fact that can be extrapolated to assume that cylons can clone existing people...that is all I'm saying (and saying, and saying...)

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Old 08-02-2005, 09:11 AM   #113 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anubys
I don't think they make babies, but I do think they make them "young" and need time to "grow" them...the young description can be related to emotional, not physical state...this is what Boomer said to Helo on Caprica...she talked about being young and used the word "indoctrinated" as she questioned her set of beliefs and tried to reach out to him in a moment of self-doubt and soul searching...so this implies some sort of brain washing or "school of cylon" for a lack of a better word...all the models we have seen are younger than the 40 year gap...

so my assumptions are based in fact...still, they are assumptions...

there is absolutely not one shred of evidence or fact that can be extrapolated to assume that cylons can clone existing people...that is all I'm saying (and saying, and saying...)


I don't think there's any evidence to support the "growing" or "cloning" concepts at all. As far as we know, the Cylons are machines built on an assembly line, can be run off as quickly as needed to to let a dying cylon beam into, and can be built to look anyway they choose. The "only 12 Cylon models" line (who wrote that note anyway?) even if true, can be for any number of reasons (maybe perhaps "model six" has nothing to do with appearence, but with technology...or maybe model 6 is the 6 foot tall female type, but can look any number of ways...we just don't know), and doesn't preclude Ellen being a cyclon. The Prez is less likely if you ask me, but that's just my sense of things. All memories of youth can be fabricated and implanted. We have no way to know, but certainly no reason to to think otherwise.
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Old 08-02-2005, 09:27 AM   #114 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akaye
I don't think there's any evidence to support the "growing" or "cloning" concepts at all. As far as we know, the Cylons are machines built on an assembly line, can be run off as quickly as needed to to let a dying cylon beam into, and can be built to look anyway they choose. The "only 12 Cylon models" line (who wrote that note anyway?) even if true, can be for any number of reasons (maybe perhaps "model six" has nothing to do with appearence, but with technology...or maybe model 6 is the 6 foot tall female type, but can look any number of ways...we just don't know), and doesn't preclude Ellen being a cyclon. The Prez is less likely if you ask me, but that's just my sense of things. All memories of youth can be fabricated and implanted. We have no way to know, but certainly no reason to to think otherwise.

Well, they're not machines, they're human beings. Presumably not born the usual way, but if you have human DNA, and are medically indistinguishable from human beings, then you're some kind of human being. Now, it's possible that human beings could be "built" on an assembly line. Less possible that human beings could be built on an assembly line in a way that makes them medically indistinguishable from natural human beings, since human cells age and break down over time, and thus it would be difficult to explain why the Spylons' cells are minty-fresh.

I'm with those who do not think the Spylons are "built" at all, but rather are artificially conceived, born from an artificial womb, enhanced (either in utero or as they grow) with the additional abilities they possess, and raised as Cylons. I suspect some of the problems they're having (especially with the Boomer and Six models) arise from the Cylons not understanding that human DNA runs pretty deep, and that programming/brainwashing can't always overcome genetic imperatives.

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Old 08-02-2005, 09:41 AM   #115 (Print)
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Well, they're not machines, they're human beings.


Every bit of on on screen information says that is not right. Even after examining them, the humans on the show call them machines, and they should know. The cylons are out to hunt down humans by their own on screen statements, which makes no sense if they are human themselves. They refer to themselves as "models" who's bodies are easiliy replaceable and unimportant. Baltar's scanner identifies synthetic molecules...again...synthetic. i.e., manufactured...not real.

Even in the real world at our current real technology, we know how to rearrange subatomic particle to make new atoms and work with individual atoms to make new molecules, so it is not a fanatastic leap to figure the Cylons do it far, far better than we do.

I've said before that the 'indistigushability' of Cylon MACHINES from humans is my biggest problem with the show, but I'll try to accept until they say something on screen to make it otherwise.

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Old 08-02-2005, 09:56 AM   #116 (Print)
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Huh. That's actually the sign of a good show! If you believe the stable characters are actually in danger of being written out due to the progress of the storyline (as opposed to you heard in the media that the actor wanted to leave), then that's compellnig television.


Excellent point! I know I was saying "they can't be killing off the chief!" I think his character has had to grow after the lesson Adama taught him. When his subordinate went to jail for lying to cover for his affair with Boomer. I think he's become such a strong character since he walked away from her.

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Old 08-02-2005, 10:05 AM   #117 (Print)
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Don't draw too much into the term synthetic, though. They could still be totally human cells but have been synthesized. Much like how we synthesize certain things in petri dishes.

As far as Ellen T. as a cylon... it's true that we don't KNOW that cylons have been able to implant replicas of existing humans, but they also have hinted that it might be possible. When introducing her, we had a lot of thoughts that she might be. She had been missing for a while and mysteriously appeared. She crawled through a vent to kill someone, or at least it was strongly implied that she did.

Also, Helo and Starbuck seem to indicate that they have known boomer for a very long time and that she might have been replaced with a cylon.

So I think it's still possible they will reveal that ellen is a cylon and that there was a real boomer at some point.
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Old 08-02-2005, 10:08 AM   #118 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akaye
Every bit of on on screen information says that is not right. Even after examining them, the humans on the show call them machines, and they should know.

That's simple prejudice (on the part of the colonists). I assume you would agree that there are difference between human beings and machines; the people on the show can't find any except for Balthar's test, which only seems to show that Spylon DNA degenerates faster than baseline human DNA when exposed to radiation.

And I think the prejudice angle is deliberate. These people's reaction to the Spylons is irrational--they hate them, and refuse to accept that some of them might be effectively human. I think that will play a major role down the line.

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Old 08-02-2005, 10:14 AM   #119 (Print)
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If they're humans, how do they have the strength, speed, and glowing spines?

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Old 08-02-2005, 10:17 AM   #120 (Print)
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They stole Roy Jones Jr.'s DNA, that's how. And the glowing spine was because they swallowed laser toys at the factory, because they had the brain capacity of cats when they were 2 seconds old.
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