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Old 12-30-2004, 11:24 PM   #1 (Print)
KRT
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Leave the buffer alone ...

I have only had Tivo for a few days now (a Humax DRT-800), but immediately came across a flaw so bad I feel, if not cheated, at least misled. Tuesday night, 12/28/04, I was watching 'Navy NCIS' at 8:00. I also wanted to watch 'House' at 9:00. I was running late on NCIS (about 13 min), but fortunately caught up by the time the show was over. That's when I found that it completely dumps the buffer when it changes channels. Basically, you can't watch shows at consecutive times on different channels unless it is in real time. The reason I wanted Tivo in the first place is so I wouldn't have to miss part of a show if I was running late, or had to pause in the middle.

This just seems like such a major flaw I can't believe users haven't been complaining by the thousands. (I saw a few archived posts from a couple of years ago, but nothing recent, and no changes by Tivo.)
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Old 12-30-2004, 11:43 PM   #2 (Print)
balboa dave
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To save the buffer, press the record button. Thousands of people do.

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Old 12-31-2004, 12:22 AM   #3 (Print)
KRT
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I have only been using this for a few days, but wasting disk space to keep a few min of a show because I am changing channels seems rediculous. It seems that it would also require additional housekeeping to get rid of these clips, without inadvertantly deleting something you want. Generally, it's just a lot of added hastle and I don't see the advantage of a buffer dump. I suppose there may be a reason for it, I just can't see what advantage there is while there are a LOT of disadvantages.
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Old 12-31-2004, 01:54 AM   #4 (Print)
balboa dave
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The buffer IS disk space. Relax, you'll get the hang of it.

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Old 12-31-2004, 02:02 AM   #5 (Print)
Rcrew
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There's probably a bunch of reasons why it's not done. It can be annoying, even with dual tuner DTiVos it happens.

Hitting the record button really won't help you much, as your tuner will then be locked. You'll have to plan ahead just a bit more to manage the scenario you described.
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Old 12-31-2004, 02:11 AM   #6 (Print)
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You need to get out of the habit of watching things live that you want to watch; create recordings for them and watch the recording; stay away from watching things live.
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Old 12-31-2004, 02:35 AM   #7 (Print)
Rcrew
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Quote:
Originally posted by dswallow
You need to get out of the habit of watching things live that you want to watch; create recordings for them and watch the recording; stay away from watching things live.


This really is the best way to go. Even if you catch yourself watching, hit record, then go through the NPL to watch.

In the case you sited, be sure to have set a recording for the follow on program.
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Old 12-31-2004, 12:21 PM   #8 (Print)
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Actually, if you are behind live in the buffer and the TiVo changes the channel for a scheduled recording then you don't lose the buffer immediately.

You can continue watching the channel you were on until one of three things happens. You catch up to when the channel was changed, or you leave the buffer (by skipping to live, going to a menu, etc.), or the scheduled recording ends.

But in general the TiVo is built around the idea that you will have it record all the shows you are interested in; even if you plan to watch nearly live and delete them immediately afterwords.

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Old 12-31-2004, 01:50 PM   #9 (Print)
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Im surprised nobody even gave the simple solution if that aggrivated the OP so bad.

You can keep your buffer at all times by using your cable remote instead of tivo's remote. Tivo has no idea your changing the channel when you use the cable remote so the buffer stays through channel changes!

Be forewarned by doing this your tivo has no idea what channel its actually on so dont just hit record or you will get the wrong program description and or wrong timed recording.

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Old 12-31-2004, 05:27 PM   #10 (Print)
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Thanks for the response. I'm sure I'll get used to it, but when I got bit by this about the third day I had the unit, I was a little annoyed. Then, when I found that it was not a mistake by me, but (what I consider) a system flaw, I was pretty ticked.

As to the 'bunch of reasons' it is done this way, I can't fathom ONE. I can see NO advantage to dumping the buffer, and several reasons not to. It would appear that a 'channel change' command is coupled with, or followed by a 'dump buffer' command (I don't know the LINUX command structure or syntax, but I do database programming, so I know general programming layout). Again, maybe there is a reason that this is necessary, I just can't imagine what it would be, or why it is considered an advantage. Two shows following on the same channel aren't affected, why should the unit care if I change channels.

I will try the 'cable remote' suggestion. Other than not being able to program these changes in advance, and having the channels change automatically, I guess it would be tolerable while watching live TV.

Thanks again.
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Old 01-01-2005, 12:28 AM   #11 (Print)
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I would guess the most likely reason is that people would freak if they changed the channel and nothing appeared to happen, because the new video was getting added to the front of the buffer and they were 5 minutes behind.

I guess you could try to work around this by causing the buffer to jump to live when the channel was changed, but not dump the existing buffer. Of course that would require you to rewind back to where you just were if you cared about the preceding show...

Personally I like the way the DTiVos handle it. Pause the current channel, then flip to the other tuner and select whatever else you wanted to watch then flip back and finish watching the first buffer.

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Old 01-01-2005, 08:06 PM   #12 (Print)
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Ok, as I understand the operation (and again, I'm a new user), while you are watching a show, whether you are watching live, or have paused and are running 15 or so min behind, the buffer is still adding the live feed to the buffer. If you are staying with the same channel, it's no problem. The buffer continues writing and the transition between shows is seamless. If you change channels after the first show, it dumps the buffer and starts a new one for the new channel.

If you are watching the first show, and are behind, you can hit the record button and save everything in the buffer, so if you are changing channels, the first show is saved, and you are now buffering the second show. Now, again, as I understand it, If you are watching, and buffering or recording a show, you can't watch anything else that has been recorded. If that's the case, you can't watch the last 15 min of the first show until the second is completed.

Provided that you scheduled in advance, would it not be possible to change channels in the bacground, continue watching what's in the buffer, and the second show would start playing from the buffer after the first is done. It's true that should you want to record the second show, it would start with what was left in the buffer from the first show, but that is the same situation you currently have if you don't change channels between shows. The one real glitch I see is, would this interfere with a scheduled recording, or could it be told to start recording at the channel change?
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Old 01-02-2005, 01:43 PM   #13 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by KRT
Ok, as I understand the operation (and again, I'm a new user), while you are watching a show, whether you are watching live, or have paused and are running 15 or so min behind, the buffer is still adding the live feed to the buffer. If you are staying with the same channel, it's no problem. The buffer continues writing and the transition between shows is seamless. If you change channels after the first show, it dumps the buffer and starts a new one for the new channel.
Right
Quote:

If you are watching the first show, and are behind, you can hit the record button and save everything in the buffer, so if you are changing channels, the first show is saved, and you are now buffering the second show.
Right
Quote:
Now, again, as I understand it, If you are watching, and buffering or recording a show, you can't watch anything else that has been recorded. If that's the case, you can't watch the last 15 min of the first show until the second is completed.
That is incorrect. While the TiVo is recording or buffering something you can certainly watch a previously recorded program. Or watch what is being buffered / recorded. If you want to watch something else, just pause the current buffer, press list (or the TiVo button twice) to get to the Now Playing menu and select whatever it is you want to watch.

The only time you have to be careful if it you are watching behind in the buffer and the TiVo is recording something else. In that case the "orphaned" buffer will only stay while you watch it.

Quote:
Provided that you scheduled in advance, would it not be possible to change channels in the bacground, continue watching what's in the buffer, and the second show would start playing from the buffer after the first is done.
Yes, that it what I described above with watching a buffer while the TiVo is recording something else. The only downside is that the buffer you are watching will go away if you leave it.
Quote:
It's true that should you want to record the second show, it would start with what was left in the buffer from the first show, but that is the same situation you currently have if you don't change channels between shows.
Actually no. The second show would not contain the buffer from the first. When you reached the end of the buffer from the first show it would vanish and you would be a the start of a fresh buffer containing the second show. You couldn't rewind back into the previous show (from the other channel)

Quote:
The one real glitch I see is, would this interfere with a scheduled recording, or could it be told to start recording at the channel change?
I don't understand how scheduling a non-conflicting recording would interfere with a scheduled recording. Unless you told the TiVo to override a conflict with a scheduled recording doing this shouldn't affect any recording you might have scheduled.


All that said, it is still easier to just press the record button and record any show you start watching from LiveTV. That way you are sure that you won't accidentally change the channel and lose the buffer or get distracted by something for too long and run out of 30 minute buffer. You can always delete the show as soon as you finish watching it.

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Old 01-02-2005, 11:58 PM   #14 (Print)
KRT
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Like I said, I'm still a new user. I'll get used to it, and find the most convenient work around for my watching habits. Currently, the best seems to be using the cable remote (see question in 'Help Center') to change channels without dropping the buffer, but I'm still playing with it.

Thanks
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Old 02-03-2005, 01:27 PM   #15 (Print)
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Buffer The History Slayer!

I just got my first Tivo.

I was stunned that it deleted the buffer every time you change the channel. I noted the post about it being a little confusing to some people because the last live channel was being appended to front of the buffer, but that still doesn't seem like sufficient reason for deleting the buffer every time you change the channel.

If you want to show something that just happened on another channel to somebody who just walked in the room, it sure would be nice to have everything you've seen for the last 30 minutes in the buffer.

Since this is the suggestion forum, I'd like to suggest that leaving the buffer intact be one of the options available in setup. I can't imagine any reason in the world why somebody would turn the option off.

BTW, Does anybody from Tivo read these forums?
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Old 02-03-2005, 01:33 PM   #16 (Print)
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Re: Leave the buffer alone ...

Quote:
Originally posted by KRT
I have only had Tivo for a few days now (a Humax DRT-800), but immediately came across a flaw so bad I feel, if not cheated, at least misled. Tuesday night, 12/28/04, I was watching 'Navy NCIS' at 8:00. I also wanted to watch 'House' at 9:00. I was running late on NCIS (about 13 min), but fortunately caught up by the time the show was over. That's when I found that it completely dumps the buffer when it changes channels. Basically, you can't watch shows at consecutive times on different channels unless it is in real time. The reason I wanted Tivo in the first place is so I wouldn't have to miss part of a show if I was running late, or had to pause in the middle.

This just seems like such a major flaw I can't believe users haven't been complaining by the thousands. (I saw a few archived posts from a couple of years ago, but nothing recent, and no changes by Tivo.)


It has been said...but why don't you record the shows you want to watch? Set up a season pass...then you won't miss anything.

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Last edited by Nfuego : 02-15-2005 at 03:20 PM.
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Old 02-03-2005, 01:37 PM   #17 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jonathan_S
Actually, if you are behind live in the buffer and the TiVo changes the channel for a scheduled recording then you don't lose the buffer immediately.

You can continue watching the channel you were on until one of three things happens. You catch up to when the channel was changed, or you leave the buffer (by skipping to live, going to a menu, etc.), or the scheduled recording ends.

But in general the TiVo is built around the idea that you will have it record all the shows you are interested in; even if you plan to watch nearly live and delete them immediately afterwords.


Yes, but his problem was that when 9pm came around, he changed the channel...

He needs Season Passes. That is why they are there. At the end of his viewing, just click to delete the show if he is worried about disk space. Also, the TiVo is ALWAYS recording. Jim, quit worrying about the disk space...

Your life has changed. Quit letting NBC or ABC or whatever tell you when you can watch the show.

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Old 02-03-2005, 01:39 PM   #18 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by KRT
Two shows following on the same channel aren't affected, why should the unit care if I change channels.

I will try the 'cable remote' suggestion. Other than not being able to program these changes in advance, and having the channels change automatically, I guess it would be tolerable while watching live TV.


BUT you CAN program the changes in advance...just tell the TiVo to record the shows you want to watch! That is why you bought the darned thing, isn't it?

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Old 02-03-2005, 09:23 PM   #19 (Print)
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I Bought Tivo Mainly To Back Up Live TV

Actually, if I knew in advance what shows I wanted to record, I would have just bought another VCR.

I bought the Tivo so I could go back while watching live TV & see stuff that I wasn't expecting, but wanted to review.
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Old 02-08-2005, 04:27 PM   #20 (Print)
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There are times that I like the fact that the buffer is dumped. If I'm an hour into a movie I'm watching live and have to leave, I'll quickly change the channel up and back to clear the buffer. Then hit Record. Now my recording starts where I left off and not at the beginning of the buffer. I use this for sports all the time too.
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Old 02-15-2005, 02:40 PM   #21 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joanzen
There are times that I like the fact that the buffer is dumped. If I'm an hour into a movie I'm watching live and have to leave, I'll quickly change the channel up and back to clear the buffer. Then hit Record. Now my recording starts where I left off and not at the beginning of the buffer. I use this for sports all the time too.


I never thought of that! Cool. Although, I rarely watch live TV anymore so it's not much of an issue for me!
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Old 02-15-2005, 03:26 PM   #22 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Racquetballjim
Actually, if I knew in advance what shows I wanted to record, I would have just bought another VCR.

I bought the Tivo so I could go back while watching live TV & see stuff that I wasn't expecting, but wanted to review.


The TiVo is a GREAT device...but, it doesn't read minds...

If the show is something that you definately want to finish watching, record it.

If I plan to watch something "live" like a sports event...I purposely set a season pass or tell the TiVo to record it. Then I start watching 1/2 hour to 45 minutes LATE...

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Old 02-16-2005, 11:05 AM   #23 (Print)
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I'm guessing some of the responders on here must be programmers.

Whenever a user points out a glaring bug, the programmers seem disgusted that the user isn't satisfied accepting the bug by living with some sort of workaround.
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Old 02-24-2005, 08:40 PM   #24 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Racquetballjim
I'm guessing some of the responders on here must be programmers.

Whenever a user points out a glaring bug, the programmers seem disgusted that the user isn't satisfied accepting the bug by living with some sort of workaround.


While it's probably true some are programmers, that's not what they are getting it. New users are just in the old habit of watching live TV - you'll get over it eventually.

Now, the issue with dumping the buffer - like a previous poster said - the Tivo can't read your mind. Nor should it buffer up all the disk space just because people want to keep a buffer - really, what's the difference between hitting record to keep what's already been buffered - which you then have control of deleting, and having the thing indefinitely hold a buffer? It's the same - you keep a recording.

Now, on to the channel switching in Tivo - there is only 1 tuner on the non-DirecTivo's. If you change a channel in Tivo, there is no possible way for it to keep buffering the other channel. Now let's take the next step - say the 30 min buffer was just always there regardless of channel changing - what would be recorded in that buffer is your channel surfing - what good is that? If you wanted to keep that last 15min of a show you just paused but want to jump to another channel, hit record - let it save that show's buffer to disk (assuming the show was already over in live time) and change the channel. If the show isn't over, then change the channel on the TV directly (again, the one tuner thing).

So, welcome to owning a Tivo - have fun with it and quit watching live tv
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Old 02-25-2005, 05:33 PM   #25 (Print)
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I'm a guy (translation - I have to channel surf).

If I've bopped through channels 25 times in the last 30 minutes, all of that data should be available for me to review.

The disk space is dedicated to that 30 minute buffer, so you're not saving any space by not always keeping a full 30 minutes.

There are only two ways to channel surf - either have a Tivo with 100 tuners, or watch live TV.

Until Tivo makes the 100 tuner unit, my only choices are to keep watching live TV or have a sex change operation.
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Old 02-26-2005, 11:37 PM   #26 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Racquetballjim
I'm a guy (translation - I have to channel surf).

If I've bopped through channels 25 times in the last 30 minutes, all of that data should be available for me to review.

The disk space is dedicated to that 30 minute buffer, so you're not saving any space by not always keeping a full 30 minutes.

There are only two ways to channel surf - either have a Tivo with 100 tuners, or watch live TV.

Until Tivo makes the 100 tuner unit, my only choices are to keep watching live TV or have a sex change operation.


I've found flipping through the NPL an acceptable substitute for channel surfing, with the added benefit of always finding something I want to watch!
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Old 10-25-2005, 06:37 PM   #27 (Print)
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I'm going to throw my lot in with the folks who want the buffer to just stay where it is.

I've had many situations where I was watching a show and the channel changed accidentally on me by my fat fingering the remote, trying to turn the volume up with the remote upside down, or someone sitting on the remote, and then immediatly changed back. Now I've lost that peice of the plot.

I didn't want to save the recording, I just wanted to finish watching that show. And most of the time that show won't be back on for a couple of weeks, which means I have to either setup a wish list for it, or download it.

If I inadvertantly change the channel, just keep the buffer, skip ahead to live tv, but give me the option of rewinding back to where i was. Ok, I goofed up and get to miss a couple of seconds. That's better than missing the last 15 minutes where they finally show who killed the guy!!!
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Old 10-29-2005, 09:54 AM   #28 (Print)
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Buffer the buffer!

This MAY be a solution for the people who are worried about accidental channel changes (but probably not for the OP). I AM a programmer, but I don't think everyone has to just accept this design decision (it's not a bug, just a choice when they did it).

1. When the channel changes, start a 15 second (longer?) safety buffer of recording the previous channel.
2. If the channel changes back to the original channel immediately, insert the seconds recorded in the safety buffer where it belongs in the main buffer.
3. If the channel doesn't change again by the time the 15 seconds are up, throw the safety buffer away.

Last edited by blooflame : 11-06-2005 at 11:17 AM. Reason: Change "15" to "15 second"
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Old 10-31-2005, 07:50 PM   #29 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Racquetballjim
BTW, Does anybody from Tivo read these forums?
Yes.

Though, since this (keeping the buffer) has been requested on and off for at least 4 years now, I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for the change. :-)

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