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Old 07-30-2005, 08:32 PM   #31 (Print)
akaye
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anubys
I thought we settled this argument after the end of last season...you admitted that you were wrong and I was right (that's my story and I'm sticking to it...don't bother with the truth!)...

The agreement they had was a secret agreement...Adama usurped the situation to gain more control/power than he deserved under their constitution...that was made clear by how she took command of the fleet (and gave him orders) at the start of the conflict and how they talked when they made their "deal" to share power...

so as far as anyone was concerned, she was the president and he staged a coup...we "know" that's not true, but the population at large doesn't...


Sounds like you're right on to me. Ostensibly, according to their law, Rosilin has all the power is the commander-in-chief of the miltary. In private, they made some sensible arraingments in the name of practicality and survival.

Adama no more has 'all the power' in a legal sense than any general who's ever staged a coup. It doesn't even seem like he has ALL the military power, because, if the brig corporal's, and even Lee's, actions are any indication, A significant part of the actual fighting force would apparently side with the president over adama if it came down to it. And, while I generaly prefer my fiction to have unambiguos good/evil dichotomy, it's interesting that both Adama and Rosilin are clearly both on the side of good and trying to do what's best to ensure the survival of the fleet.

All that being said...I didn't really like this epsiode.
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Old 07-30-2005, 08:46 PM   #32 (Print)
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If you listened to the podcasts from last season, Moore says that he originally planned for the season to end with Adama taking command and putting Roslin in jail, but for completely different reasons.

Originally he had planned for Roslin to become more and more dictatorial as time went on and she tried to keep a tighter reign on the fleet. It would turn out that Adama was the greater civil libertarian of the two and he would eventually remove her from office when he felt she had gone too far.

There are a couple of hints of this in the early episodes. If you remember, there is one where Roslin wants Adama to assign some troops as security in the fleet and he basically doesn't like the idea. Also, it was Roslin who first says that they need to destroy the ship and everyone on it (Gemimon Traveller? Can't remember.) in "33". (Adama wants to evacuate the ship then destroy it and Roslin says "what if the Cylons are tracking one of the people and not the ship")

It's just interesting that originally Adama was going to be much more unambiguously in the right.

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Old 07-30-2005, 08:53 PM   #33 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akaye

One thing I disagre with you on,
In a previous message you refer to Tigh as being good military man/bad politician. I disagree with you there. He's a disgraceful military man.
AK


I didn't make myself clear...I didn't mean it that way...what I meant is that Tigh is pretty good tactician and strategist in the middle of a battle...throughout the first season, his advice under duress was good (sometimes better than Adama's)...he saw the big picture and had a good sense for fighting and winning a war...he certainly was the only one on the ball when the cylons boarded them...

so when I said "military man", I meant he's good in a fight...

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Old 07-31-2005, 11:06 AM   #34 (Print)
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Anyone notice that one of the Quorum of Twelve (?) was "Kiffany" from Dead Like Me?
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Old 07-31-2005, 11:13 AM   #35 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thom
Anyone notice that one of the Quorum of Twelve (?) was "Kiffany" from Dead Like Me?


Ha! Thanks I knew she looked familiar!

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Old 08-01-2005, 01:44 AM   #36 (Print)
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Presuming that the Colonial system of government is anything similar to our own, Rosslin had the right, as commander in chief, to give an order to Starbuck that contradicted an order given by Adama. The agreement she had with Adama was informal, not constitutional. Breaking her agreement with Adama makes her a liar (but then, she IS a politician), but it doesn't make her a criminal. (BTW, that doesn't mean I agree with what she chose to do.)

Anyway, I agree with those who suggest that Tigh is the wrong guy, in the wrong place, at the wrong time. He's a poor leader, a bad decisionmaker, a drunk and not particularly diplomatic.

My understanding is that Adama will be in a coma for the 1st 5 episodes. He's going to have a lot of work to do when he wakes up...

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Old 08-01-2005, 04:53 AM   #37 (Print)
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Col. Tigh, please report to the airlock. Bring your wife with you.

I figured that Crashdown would get waxed by one of his own. I thought it would be the Red Shirt girl, though. Baltar doing it was theh real surpise. I guess there won't be an autopsy on Crashdown's body - I assume Cylon bullets are different than the ones used by Baltar.

Last edited by cheesesteak : 08-01-2005 at 04:59 AM.
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Old 08-01-2005, 06:04 AM   #38 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevdog
Presuming that the Colonial system of government is anything similar to our own, Rosslin had the right, as commander in chief, to give an order to Starbuck that contradicted an order given by Adama.

I believe the mini established that their system is different from outs in that their President does not have Commander-in-Chief authority like ours.

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Old 08-01-2005, 06:20 AM   #39 (Print)
Anubys
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IndyJones1023
I believe the mini established that their system is different from outs in that their President does not have Commander-in-Chief authority like ours.


actually, the mini established just the opposite...

When Adama gave Apollo a command to return to Galactica at once, Apollo told him he could not because he was ordered by the president not to...the clear implication is that the president's order supersedes Adama's. Then the President got on the phone, identified herself, and gave Adama a direct order...

It was made quite clear that the president of the colonies is the commander-in-chief...

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Old 08-01-2005, 06:22 AM   #40 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cheesesteak
Col. Tigh, please report to the airlock. Bring your wife with you.


Tigh's wife didn't do anything wrong this time...she gave Tigh the correct advice...she had no way of knowing that the president would get some of the medication and would be ok again...

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Old 08-01-2005, 09:17 AM   #41 (Print)
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So, does anyone think that this episode implies that Baltar is drifting away from Six?

Evidence:

-He told Six he didn't want to be the father of the baby.
-He was the only one, for a time, shooting at the toasters....even though he told Six that he couldn't die, as he was the "chosen" one.
-He got on the ship and left Kobol.

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Old 08-01-2005, 09:22 AM   #42 (Print)
Anubys
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 7thton
So, does anyone think that this episode implies that Baltar is drifting away from Six?

Evidence:

-He told Six he didn't want to be the father of the baby.
-He was the only one, for a time, shooting at the toasters....even though he told Six that he couldn't die, as he was the "chosen" one.
-He got on the ship and left Kobol.


all men say they don't want to be the father (especially ones that like to play the field!)

He shot at the toasters because six told him that God will not protect him on Kobol...he was on his own and fought to save his own life

he left Kobol because...see above!

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Old 08-01-2005, 09:28 AM   #43 (Print)
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Quote:
I did like how the President tricked everyone into making sure she was heard. Now THAT was the President I knew and loved from season one.
That was not a trick...saying it's a trick implies she planned it. She did not. She was ill from not having her medication, and she received it just in time to be lucid in front of the press and the 12.

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Old 08-01-2005, 09:40 AM   #44 (Print)
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[QUOTE=cheesesteak]Col. Tigh, please report to the airlock. Bring your wife with you. QUOTE]

Hey, I object. I have a serious case of the hots for Tigh's skanky wife.

-p (hopes Boomer doesn't read this and blow my chances)
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Old 08-01-2005, 09:43 AM   #45 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philw1776
[QUOTE=cheesesteak]Col. Tigh, please report to the airlock. Bring your wife with you. QUOTE]

Hey, I object. I have a serious case of the hots for Tigh's skanky wife.

-p (hopes Boomer doesn't read this and blow my chances)


oh no...your chances of a threesome with the two of them have increased substantially


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Old 08-01-2005, 09:48 AM   #46 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anubys

He shot at the toasters because six told him that God will not protect him on Kobol...he was on his own and fought to save his own life


She did? I don't recall that.....

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Old 08-01-2005, 09:50 AM   #47 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 7thton
She did? I don't recall that.....


yep...he told her that nothing will happen to him because he was God's instrument...Six responded by telling him that God has abandoned Kobol and that he was on his own...

I'm paraphrasing, but that was basically what was said...

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Old 08-01-2005, 10:03 AM   #48 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anubys
yep...he told her that nothing will happen to him because he was God's instrument...Six responded by telling him that God has abandoned Kobol and that he was on his own...

I'm paraphrasing, but that was basically what was said...


Thanks for the info.

Still, I think that Baltar might be shying away from Six a bit....he seemed annoyed with her and said he didn't want anything to do with the baby....

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Old 08-01-2005, 10:09 AM   #49 (Print)
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she warned him that he would not be safe on Galactica...now we know why...the cylons expected to be successful in boarding the ship and killing everyone on board...

still, he's a little miffed at her for putting him on this planet and all the trouble he's going through...I can understand that!

plus, no time for virtual sex...I'm sure he's a little stressed

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Old 08-01-2005, 10:22 AM   #50 (Print)
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I'm kind of torn right now, as I seem to have been at the first episode.

On the one hand, I'm really starting to wonder when the season is going to "pick up"... when Season One started, it hit the ground running and never slowed down. Things were fast paced, but still intricate and engaging. Right now, we're not getting any of that. Things are just progressing SO slowly. I personally think it's because there's so much going on... too much.

At this point, our storyline threads which are left over from the finale of season one include... Roslin being deposed, Adama in a coma, the Cylons AND the Humans finding Kobol, GalacticaBoomer shooting Adama (at this point, I'm not even sure she was trying to kill him), Starbuck/Helo/Boomer on Caprica, Tighe taking command of the fleet, Gaius' choice between the Humans and the Cylons.... and out of all those, the only thing we've really dealt with at length is Tighe taking command, which is (IMHO) the least important out of everything.

I mean, this makes two weeks we haven't seen GalacticaBoomer, and the one time we did see her, it was just for a few minutes. This past episode we didn't even get a glimpse of Helo and Starbuck.

It just feels like there's so much stuff they could be doing with the airtime, but they're not in favor of pacing. I suspect (and hope) that Ron Moore's got a plan.. kinda like the Cylons. I'm really, really hoping he's got an Ace up his sleeve, and that this groundwork becomes a necessary evil as exposition for events coming up.

And at the same time, I'm kind of disappointed how some items have just fallen to the sidelines. Lee's crisis of conscience, in particular, seems to have been glossed over. I would really have liked to have seen a little more of his personal struggle between his sworn duty and conscience. But alas..

On the other hand.... this is Galactica. "Meh" Galactica is better than No Galactica.

REALLY really glad the Kobol Survival storyline is over, as that seemed a bit distracting, though it did establish some interesting character building moments for Gaius... I was pretty surprised to see him shoot Crashdown. I'm just glad they'll be getting back to Galactica in short order, where Gaius can get back to what he does best (political and mental manipulation).

And out of curiosity... how many folks got a little peeved when the Chief's barrage of handgun fire caused all three Cylons to explode in a blinding flash, prior to the camera cutting to the Raptor and Lee saying "You're welcome"?

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Old 08-01-2005, 10:27 AM   #51 (Print)
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so what you're saying is that the story isn't moving along faster, but that there are a lot of stories going on at once...

and you think that they have too many stories, but you'd like them to expand Apollo's story some more...

as long as you're clear on what you want


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Old 08-01-2005, 10:30 AM   #52 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skittles
On the one hand, I'm really starting to wonder when the season is going to "pick up"... when Season One started, it hit the ground running and never slowed down. Things were fast paced, but still intricate and engaging. Right now, we're not getting any of that. Things are just progressing SO slowly. I personally think it's because there's so much going on... too much.

In BSG real-time very little time has passed (even the end of season 1 to beginning of season 2 was only moments), so there's not a lot of opportunity for them to be cutting to other things, since those will transpire over lengthier times. So I think they're just limited to what other threads of the story they can use until the real-time pace picks up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skittles
And out of curiosity... how many folks got a little peeved when the Chief's barrage of handgun fire caused all three Cylons to explode in a blinding flash, prior to the camera cutting to the Raptor and Lee saying "You're welcome"?

The Raptor fired; while it looked like his firing was what destroyed the Cylons, it was the Raptor.
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Old 08-01-2005, 10:36 AM   #53 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dswallow

The Raptor fired; while it looked like his firing was what destroyed the Cylons, it was the Raptor.


I'm pretty sure he knew that...I think he meant that in the split second before you realized that it was Apollo that blew them up, were we annoyed that shooting his gun caused some kind of explosion that killed them all (which would've been pretty lame)...

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Old 08-01-2005, 10:39 AM   #54 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skittles
I'm kind of torn right now, as I seem to have been at the first episode.

...
REALLY really glad the Kobol Survival storyline is over, as that seemed a bit distracting, though it did establish some interesting character building moments for Gaius... I was pretty surprised to see him shoot Crashdown. I'm just glad they'll be getting back to Galactica in short order, where Gaius can get back to what he does best (political and mental manipulation).



I'm sure we're going back to Kobol. At somepoint Starbuck will return with the arrow.
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Old 08-01-2005, 10:42 AM   #55 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danieljanderson
I'm sure we're going back to Kobol. At somepoint Starbuck will return with the arrow.

You mean Caprica...

Lots going on. Very confusing sometimes..

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Old 08-01-2005, 10:43 AM   #56 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hefe
You mean Caprica...

Lots going on. Very confusing sometimes..



Well, both actually. We need to see Starbuck get off Caprica. But, the arrow needs to be brought to a temple on Kobol to point the way to Earth.
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Old 08-01-2005, 10:45 AM   #57 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danieljanderson
Well, both actually. We need to see Starbuck get off Caprica. But, the arrow needs to be brought to a temple on Kobol to point the way to Earth.

Oh, I see what you're saying.

I think the problem with the pacing right now is how much is going on. Now that one sub-storyline is done, maybe we'll get better attention on the others.

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Old 08-01-2005, 10:48 AM   #58 (Print)
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I was REALLY sorry to see CrashDown get shot.

I'm still thoroughly enjoying this show. I do wish we could have seen what was happening on Caprica. It will be interesting to see what happens on Kobol when StarBuck eventually gets back with the arrow.

It's hard to believe, but the actress who plays Ellen looks like she's had even more plastic surgery. She's was scary before, now she's downright frightening.
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Old 08-01-2005, 10:48 AM   #59 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dswallow
The Raptor fired; while it looked like his firing was what destroyed the Cylons, it was the Raptor.
Yeah, I know. But at first, it makes it seem like the Chief is responsible. And I was *so* ready to call Foul.

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Old 08-01-2005, 10:53 AM   #60 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skittles
Yeah, I know. But at first, it makes it seem like the Chief is responsible. And I was *so* ready to call Foul.

So you're just disliking the intentional misdirection.

It might've been more fun if one of the Cylons had survived somewhat from the ship's fire, and we'd learned it was the ship firing by then, and have the Chief fire again and finish off the last Cylon.
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