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Old 11-22-2005, 07:45 AM   #1 (Print)
TiVoEvan74
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7.2.1 burning mystery... is the case solved?

Using 7.2.1. Didn't have any burning problems until the other day. Toshiba RS-TX60. Here's the mystery and a possible clue to what's going on. Appreciate any insights or observations about my saga.

Had failures trying to record twelve 1/2 hour exercise shows.

2 DVD-Rs failed (TDK 8x). A DVD-RW failed (Riodata 4x). The very same DVD-RW disk then worked to record some movies!

Tried recording 11 of the 12 exerecise shows. DVD-RW failed (Riodata 4x).

Tried turning off Keep Until I Delete on some of the shows. DVD-RW failed (Riodata 4x). The same disk then worked on some hour long TV shows!

Then tried recording 10 of the 12 shows, but starting with a 1 hour show on Jefferson. DVD-RW SUCCEEDED without any problem (Riodata 4x).

Tried the exact same burn with a DVD-R disk and it WORKED, TOO! (TDK 8x).

All this suggests that there is something problematic in recording 12 30 minute shows. OTOH, a month or so ago, I recorded 12 different ones of these Body Electrics without any problem on DVD-RW and another 12 on a TDK DVD-R under 7.2!! Did 7.2.1 create a problem?

Or, perhaps, what this indicates is that shows #11 or #12 have a glitch of some sort that makes recording them trouble (that's TROUBLE) for the DVD burning. And makes me wonder if there's something going odd with signals and recording glitches that affect others.

Also, I noted with some alarm, that the Toshiba makes outrageous noises (the whooshing fan ? noise) while burning, and do so almost continuously with the TDK -R disks, but does very little of that with the -RW disks. That has me concerned, especially as the fine print in the TDK label says only use on 8x certified machines or you risk damage to the disk OR THE HARDWARE!
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Old 11-23-2005, 04:11 AM   #2 (Print)
sweetspirit
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I haven't been able to burn DVD's, except one, since the 7.2 upgrade. Same thing happened with the 7.2.1 upgrade. I burned one and thereafter couldn't burn anything. I have a Pioneer 810. It may be that the series of 30 minute shows is the problem, so I'm going to try burning something longer, especially looking for something that is 60 minutes first. I've wasted almost 20 blanks already, trying to figure out what the problem is - whats one more??? Thanks for the hint/suggestion.
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Old 11-23-2005, 11:38 AM   #3 (Print)
TiVoEvan74
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Hope it helps. Let us know. It would be another data point in this continuing Miss Marple, WhoDunIt saga...
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Old 11-23-2005, 04:04 PM   #4 (Print)
DarkShadows
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Yesterday I had luck all day burning episodes of Bonanza two one hour episodes per disc, did about 10-12 disc without a problem, then 2 errors in a row.

Looked at the internal temp to see what the unit was running at, it was 40c a bit warmer than when I started at 37c, but thats not an issue I am sure.

If I could find some 4X discs for cheap I would try them but the 8x are always on sale for around the 8 dollar mark for a 25 pack and if i can get 20 outta 25 I dont mind the $1.80 loss per spindle.
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Old 11-25-2005, 04:59 PM   #5 (Print)
miketx
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I've noticed my DVD burning time has increased since 7.2.1. I've got a Humax DRT800. Maybe it's just perception, but I wasn't looking for anything.....just noticed it the day after I received 7.2.1. I've also had a couple of strange "lock-ups". I was watching a DVD yesterday while Tivo was recording another show; all of sudden the picture "froze", but the audio continued. After about 5 mins, the DVD video "unfroze" and continued. Please note: I was watching a DVD, not a Tivo recorded show. I don't think a HD problem should cause a DVD problem.

Mike
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Old 11-29-2005, 04:19 PM   #6 (Print)
generalpatton71
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I've had a similar problem with my humax for a certain series. I fill up the DVD with all 30min shows and it always errors out. I also just want to point out it;s always did this though. Nothing has ever changed because of a software upgrade.

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Old 11-29-2005, 10:44 PM   #7 (Print)
sweetspirit
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The half-hour shows ARE the problem

Sorry for the delay, I was ill with the flu.

I am SO thankful that you took the time to make your initial post. Yes, I can successfully burn longer shows, but CANNOT burn a series of 30 min shows. Mind you, this has ONLY been a problem since the software upgrade.

Now I'd like to know how all our problems can get to someone at TIVO who cares and will do something about it. My experience has been that TIVO blames the DVR Manufacturer. . . .
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Old 11-30-2005, 02:57 AM   #8 (Print)
aizjanika
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I have a Humax DRT800. I just checked and I have the 7.2.1 upgrade.

Very suddenly (today) I am unable to burn any shows. I was trying to burn two one-hour shows to one disk. Just a few days ago I was having no problems at all. When I first bought the unit a year or so ago, I had occasional failures, but since then, I've had no failures at all. None. I'm using a 75-pack of disks and have burned many DVDs from this open pack already. Now I've had five failures in a row.

One thing I noticed, too, is that it seems to be taking a longer time to read the blank disks. It does read them (and says "blank disk inserted), but just takes maybe 10 - 20 seconds longer than it usually does.

I also tried things mentioned here. I tried taking off the "keep until I delete" thing and that didn't work. I tried recording different shows and that didn't work either. I'm already a bit upset because I need to get these recorded and off the drive so I will have room for other shows.
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Old 11-30-2005, 08:34 AM   #9 (Print)
TiVoEvan74
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aizjanika-- what kind of DVDs are you using? DVD-RW or -Rs?

The great thing about -RWs is that if you have a failure, you can simply try again!

By the way, I did have success with 12 30 minute shows under the previous OSs.

A mix of 1 hour show plus 10 30 minutes ones worked.

We should all let TiVo know about this. Does anyone know where to send such problems/issues to TiVo electronically?

Here's where I've send suggestions for features... which might just work as well as anything

http://research.tivo.com/suggestions/2web519.htm

Does TiVo Jerry have any suggestions or ideas on what's going on or how to fix this?
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Old 11-30-2005, 12:11 PM   #10 (Print)
aizjanika
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TiVoEvan74
aizjanika-- what kind of DVDs are you using? DVD-RW or -Rs?


I have a 75-pack of DVD-Rs.

Quote:
The great thing about -RWs is that if you have a failure, you can simply try again!


I'll see if I can get a few of those at the store, but aren't they more expensive? The 75-pack I have was under $30 at Sam'S Club (for Maxell, I think--they are the ones that are pre-labeled white so you can print directly on the disk). They're the same dsks I've been using for a year. I don't understand why I would suddenly have problems now.

Also...are RW disks less compatible with DVD players?

Quote:
By the way, I did have success with 12 30 minute shows under the previous OSs.

A mix of 1 hour show plus 10 30 minutes ones worked.


I record everything at "best" quality, so I've only ever tried to fit four 30-minute shows on one disk. I've done it many times just fine. Most of the time, though, it's two one-hour shows. That's what I'm trying to do now and what keeps failing. Currently I can't burn *any* DVDs.


Thanks for the info on where to send complaints.
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Old 12-01-2005, 09:34 AM   #11 (Print)
TiVoEvan74
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Don't know about -rw compatibility... yes, they are more expensive (I found a great deal at amazon 50 for $28, but they charged shipping)

What speed are the -Rs? If you check the manual, they only rate them as good up to 2x I believe, but those are hard to find. But I've recorded plenty of 8x -Rs just fine.
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Old 12-01-2005, 11:56 AM   #12 (Print)
aizjanika
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TiVoEvan74
Don't know about -rw compatibility... yes, they are more expensive (I found a great deal at amazon 50 for $28, but they charged shipping)

What speed are the -Rs? If you check the manual, they only rate them as good up to 2x I believe, but those are hard to find. But I've recorded plenty of 8x -Rs just fine.



I know, but my point is that I've been using the same disks for a year without any problems at all until just a couple of days ago. I've burned well over 200 disks without a problem--including many out of the package I'm currently using. It makes no sense to me unless there's a problem with the machine or the software. Since many others seem to be having the same problem quite suddenly--all of us just after or shortly after we got the latest update--it seems that's a likely culprit.
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Old 12-01-2005, 12:22 PM   #13 (Print)
TiVoEvan74
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Right! Didn't mean to imply the update wasn't responsible in some way... After all, it was my original post which started the entire thread!

But here are 3 other thoughts:

1) suppose that the update switched a flag that is sensitive to the speed of the media! We'd be on better ground complaining to TiVo if 2x or whateverdisks are certified also failed repeatedly!

2) the problem is clearly not universal... not everyone's affected and not in the same way (e.g., my problem was only trying to burn 12 30 minute shows--everything burns as it did before--in fact, I've burned just as much stuff afterwards as before)

3) coincidence? timing? perhaps it really is DVD hardware failing over time... after all, there are burn report probs from 7.2, others didn't have probs until 7.2.1... hmm... the counter-evidence is that 7.2.1 solved the probs for some, at least for a while (coincidence again?)
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Old 12-01-2005, 11:41 PM   #14 (Print)
FrankNL
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DVD hardware issues

Hi

It may be dying hardware as well.... I just got my Toshiba TX-20 back from Toshiba repair. For a while I had had problems with recording programs to disk, it would just not record, or say that there was not enough space. Just over a month ago I tried to record a DVD, and it would not recognize the disk (it kept on saying 'no disk' despite the disk being there. The same happened with prerecorded DVDs. Sent the unit back to Toshiba, who repaired it. Great service, only missed the unit for about eight days and they repaired it under warranty.

Surprisingly, apart from the new DVD recorder, they also mounted a new 120 Gb hard disk. I never thought anything was wrong with the HD in the first place, but I noticed this one makes a lot less noise than the old one.

Frank
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Old 12-04-2005, 12:15 PM   #15 (Print)
TiVoEvan74
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Hmm... I wonder if there have been quality control issues in the Toshiba line!

A refurbished unit, given a new DVD recorder and hard drive, sounds like a much better deal than a new, possibly poor QC one! Congrats!

Now, how is the burning going?
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Old 12-04-2005, 04:29 PM   #16 (Print)
FrankNL
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Burning after repairs

Quote:
Originally Posted by TiVoEvan74
Hmm... I wonder if there have been quality control issues in the Toshiba line!

A refurbished unit, given a new DVD recorder and hard drive, sounds like a much better deal than a new, possibly poor QC one! Congrats!

Now, how is the burning going?


Tried it, I burned two episodes of Mythbusters (high quality) to a Sony DVD-RW (1-2x) without any issues whatsoever. It took about 1 hour to burn, and while it was burning I watched TV through the Tivo to give it a bit of a workout. There were no issues and the burned DVD worked on my PC and on my TV/DVD combo.

Needless to say I am very happy!

Frank
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Old 12-04-2005, 05:20 PM   #17 (Print)
TiVoEvan74
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That's great! Where are you getting the DVD-RW 2xs?

Also, report sometime on whether it can burn a bunch of 1/2 hour shows... I'd be real curious how that's working. Oh wait, wait until things are upgraded to 7.2.1!!
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Old 12-05-2005, 03:47 PM   #18 (Print)
sweetspirit
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I had NO problems burning DVD's till the 7.2 update. I was able to burn ONE after that update and none thereafter. Along came the 7.2.1 update - again, I was able to burn ONE - and that's all.

After reading that some people had success when burning shows longer than 30 minutes, I successfully burned five. NOW, the DVR doesn't even RECOGNIZE the disk. Simple entry of the disk into the DVR causes failure!! It tries to load FOREVER, then I get the message "invalid or unsuppported disk". It's the same FFFXXX@#* disk that I've used since I got the stupid machine, new in April this year. I'M SICK OF THIS!

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Old 12-06-2005, 06:55 PM   #19 (Print)
Braden
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I initially thought (maybe "hoped" is a better word) that 7.2.1 resolved the burning problems that I've been experiencing since the upgrade to 7.2. After a few weeks, it's only gotten worse. The time to record is horrible; rebooting occasionally resolves the recording errors, but not all the time, and only for one or two burns; and not filling up a disc when recording also only occasionally works. I've got a Pioneer 57H that I bought ~ two months after it first came out in 2003(?), and based on the posts on this board, this problem is definitely not limited to certain manufacturers. It's possible the hardware could all be dying, but at the same time, with all of us experiencing many of the same errors and behavior? And how does that explain some people having the problem initially, and now not? I, and it seems many others on this board, didn't have any noticeable issues before the 7.2 upgrade, and now every other topic seems to be discussing this problem. TiVo needs to step out in front of this issue and get it resolved, as those who are making new purchases are going to start experiencing these issues, and won't be happy when their brand-new burner can't burn a disc.
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Old 12-07-2005, 04:34 AM   #20 (Print)
aizjanika
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I finally called Humax (well, my husband did) and they said they'd send us a new unit to replace this one. They were very nice over the phone. We didn't even have any warranty information or anything. They also said to call them any time with any problems or questions.

What I'm wondering is...we already paid the lifetime service fee. Since this is a replacement unit, I'm hoping we won't have any problems setting it up. I've also read on other threads that people have had trouble actually receiving their units (but I think they were dealing with Tivo and not directly with Humax)

I'm hoping the replacement doesn't do the same things.

I'm also starting to wonder if it was the disks I was using. I'd used the cheapie Verbatim ones from Sam's Club exclusively so far until maybe a month or two ago. I bought a new printer--the kind that can print directly on the white disks, so I bought that brand of disks. I've burned maybe 25 or 30 disks from that package successfully, though. Once we get the unit, I may call Humax and ask them about the type of disks. It would really suck if I can't use these disks--not only because I already bought them, but I bought a new printer and software, too, so that I would be able to do this.

Is it possible that it's the disks? Should that even make a difference? In another thread I read a ways back that people were having trouble with some brands of disks and not with others.
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Old 12-07-2005, 09:07 AM   #21 (Print)
lajohn27
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One interesting idea.. is that something in the new software doesn't agree with older versions of the hardware.

A family member recently got the Humax DRT-400 and of course the software upgrade to 7.2.1 .. but has had no problems burning... whatsover.

So perhaps it's a previous revision of the hardware that doesn't play well with the new software. Has anyone started comparing the motherboard revisions or manufacturing dates?

That might be an interesting thread - to start listing the manufacturing dates of machines that flat out fail or refuse to burn now. The manufacturing date can usually be found on the sticker with the TiVO service ID. (usually)

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Old 12-07-2005, 09:22 PM   #22 (Print)
DarkShadows
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I don't know if this issue will ever be fully resolved I have had on again off again problems that are well documented on here in regards to burning.

Last weekend I went out and bought the 50 pack of DVD-r's of Staples brand for $7.94 and have not had a single bad burn and I have burned 20 now.

They are rated at 1-8x and burn a little slower but I have been burning primarily 2 one hour shows with no problems and 2 30 min shows as well.

At least if they fail at this price i am only out .16- .20 cents a disc.
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Old 12-10-2005, 11:33 AM   #23 (Print)
lajohn27
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I have been burning 2x 1 hour shows every two days... and no problems so far.

Actually since I got the unit - knock on wood - I have yet to make a coaster.

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Old 12-10-2005, 05:33 PM   #24 (Print)
jasapp
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After having had my Humax Series2 DVR for less than a month, and having been able to record programs using three different brands of 4x DVD-RX dvds during that period..all of a sudden yesterday I could no longer record. I received the "Your programs could not be saved because of an internal error". Note that I could put all my previously recorded dvds in and play them just fine..it was only when I tried to record new ones that things went south fast...sometimes it would even fail to try recording them...sometimes it would record and appear to almost finish when it would fail. I called TIVO (from whom I bought the recorder) and they passed me on to Humax - the manufacturer. Humax told me to 'boot' my recorder by disconnecting it from the electric plug in the wall and from the phone plug in the wall, wait two minutes and then plug everything back in. I spent the afternoon doing that..and reading this thread I would 'reboot' - try and write a 30 minute program to the dvd - resulting in failure...reboot, try and write an hour program to the dvd - resulting in failure...reboot, try and write multiple programs to the dvd - resulting in failure. And then go thru the whole sequence of events again with another brand of dvds. At the end of all that, I call Humax back and they agree to send me a new Human, but they won't tell me whether that would be a new or reconditioned machine. Well, after less than 30 days I just wasn't willing to accept a reconditioned machine. And they weren't willing to take it back without my agreeing to their terms. So, I called TIVO back - since they were the ones I had bought the machine from. After getting tossed around thru various departments, I finally got passed on to the TIVO Store - from whom I had originally bought the machine. Their answer - we don't sell those any more but we will take it back. BUT, now you have to call customer service and cancel your service since we can't take the order to do that. So, thats my experience. A machine that worked for less than a month, would no longer record, and six phone calls later - I AM FREE. Its a shame though, I really liked the ability to record the programs - but there didn't seem TO ME to be in viable options. I can't just sit here and reboot my machine and continue buying different brands of DVDs and hope that sometime in the future I would find some media I could record onto.
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Old 12-11-2005, 07:55 AM   #25 (Print)
TiVoEvan74
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jasapp, oh my gosh, that's a major hassle and headache. It's really a nuisance getting caught between two companies. So, will you get you $ all back? Sounds like it.

So, what are you going to do next? TiVo plus a separate DVD recorded from another company? skip the DVD burning?
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Old 12-13-2005, 11:59 AM   #26 (Print)
lajohn27
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There does seem to be a higher than normal 'failure rate' with the Humax machines.

Not all of them are like this tho.

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Old 12-13-2005, 12:40 PM   #27 (Print)
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Cool

Well, I'm getting kind of nervous now after reading all of these horrible experiences with the Humax Tivo/DVD-R combos...

I bought the DRT400 as a Christmas Present for my Wife and I'd hate myself if I got her a Lemon...

(I'd post a link to our local message board, showing just how much she wants a Tivo BUT...


Quote:
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... the sucky rules won't let me... )


I almost can't wait for Christmas to try it out... I'm about ready to unwrap the thing and see if it works!

Last edited by Xenophod : 12-13-2005 at 12:53 PM.
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Old 12-14-2005, 12:05 PM   #28 (Print)
TiVoEvan74
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Actually, my casual browsing suggests it's the Toshibas that have more problems, but that may be because more have been sold. Without knowing sales data, it's impossible to gauge extent of problems based on the number of complaints on boards.
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Old 12-14-2005, 02:17 PM   #29 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TiVoEvan74
Actually, my casual browsing suggests it's the Toshibas that have more problems, but that may be because more have been sold. Without knowing sales data, it's impossible to gauge extent of problems based on the number of complaints on boards.



The wife and I opened it up and the Fan was all funky.

Waiting for a replacement...

AND I'm really pissed off about the "No Firewire" support in the DRT400... Thanks Tivo for that false advertising...
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Old 12-16-2005, 11:35 PM   #30 (Print)
subtvdan
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Smile

I have the humax drt800 with 7.2.1 software and have had no problems at all burning any programs. Multiple 30min shows I do on a regular basis. Does your quality level of your recording effect outcome? Or try not filling the burn disc to the maximum. Just some different things to try. Using maxell dvd-r 8x blanks.
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