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Old 07-29-2005, 10:09 PM   #1 (Print)
Jonathan_S
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Battlestar Galactica 7/29/05 (S02E03) "Fragged"

Well Col. Tigh seems to be screwing up by the numbers. It seems like he's a military person to such an extent that he can't deal with the process of democracy. The necessity to make compromises, so it seems like he's breaking the system in frustration. Even though he himself stated that Adama would hate the declaration of martial law.

(Of course the drinking doesn't seem to be helping either).
I wonder if we will see anything from Caprica next week, since there was nothing on the Starbuck, Helo, Boomer thread this week (except for the mention of the arrow by President Roslin).

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Old 07-29-2005, 10:13 PM   #2 (Print)
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Spiraling downward into darkness. Not as much fun as previous shows, but a necessity for the arc, I feel.

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Old 07-29-2005, 10:15 PM   #3 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan_S
Well Col. Tigh seems to be screwing up by the numbers. It seems like he's a military person to such an extent that he can't deal with the process of democracy. The necessity to make compromises, so it seems like he's breaking the system in frustration. Even though he himself stated that Adama would hate the declaration of martial law.

(Of course the drinking doesn't seem to be helping either).
I wonder if we will see anything from Caprica next week, since there was nothing on the Starbuck, Helo, Boomer thread this week (except for the mention of the arrow by President Roslin).


Dude, you totally just hit on all the points I wanted to make. Tigh is so one of my least favorite characters at the moment. What I also thought was interesting was how they used Tigh's story to parallel Crash's story on Caprica. Both are leaders who hate it when things don't go their way...and can't deal when it doesn't. And Tigh's wife? Not helping. Total ship snitch gossip.

I did like how the President tricked everyone into making sure she was heard. Now THAT was the President I knew and loved from season one.

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Old 07-29-2005, 10:17 PM   #4 (Print)
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Originally Posted by Jonathan_S
I wonder if we will see anything from Caprica next week, since there was nothing on the Starbuck, Helo, Boomer thread this week (except for the mention of the arrow by President Roslin).

Well, that's why I suspect we'll see a lot of them next week (especially since they've disposed of the Kobol storyline for now).

Tigh seems to be the type who's great at following orders, but pretty crappy at giving them--and then gets into a downward spiral with the booze, which makes his decisions even stupider, which makes him drink, yadda yadda. He managed to pretty much obliterate the moral high ground that Adama had (Roslin did, after all, violate the terms of the agreement by which she was recognized as President).

What's nice is that the way everything is going to hell is so plausible. And Laura and Balthar's stock certainly went up this week! Which won't help Tigh...

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Old 07-29-2005, 10:20 PM   #5 (Print)
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Originally Posted by Droobiemus
I did like how the President tricked everyone into making sure she was heard. Now THAT was the President I knew and loved from season one.
Yeah, that was nice.
But Tigh misplayed the whole thing. He would have been in a better position to recover if he'd used the angle that he was concerned for her health, and that was why he tried to delay access to her. Didn't want to tire her out.

If she was still delusional it would have made him seem sympathetic, and given him a bigger boost, and if she was better, as actually turned out to be the case it would have left his position less damaged. But basically bragging that she was so messed up, and that the counsel would see how right he was, was just begging for a fall.

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Old 07-29-2005, 11:08 PM   #6 (Print)
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I'm not happy with where things seem to be going. I don't think I've ever been as uninterested in seeing the upcoming episode. Of course, I'm still going to watch it ...

The idea of focusing on governing and politics is worthwhile. But in the current conflict, we have a president with a messiah complex going against a drunk. So everyone is doing dumb things for dumb reasons. If I wanted that, I'd watch reality TV.

Maybe all this prophecy gibberish will pay off at some point, but it feels forced and unnatural. Half the time, the show treats the prophecy like it is a bunch of old stories nobody really believes, and the other half of the time it treats the prophecy like 95% of the colony are true believers. The President hides everything about her cancer because she believes that it will undermine her power, until the point where she announcing it to the world, at which point it is immediately accepted and dramatically increases her power.

I liked it better when she was hiding the cancer, because *that made sense*. Announcing the cancer only makes sense in a society none of the episodes have shown us.

I also would like to see EJO upright sometime soon. Did they write the show this way because he had other commitments or wanted to take a long vacation?

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Old 07-30-2005, 12:07 AM   #7 (Print)
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Tigh is simply a great soldier who is a terrible politician...I think this was very well demonstrated...

the president revealed her cancer because it strengthened her hand...very good timing on her part...

what a twist with Baltar the one shooting crashdown! Excellent job...

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Old 07-30-2005, 12:39 AM   #8 (Print)
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Well, twice in that episode Chief aimed his weapon, and someone else took the shot...he needs to keep an eye over his shoulder.

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Old 07-30-2005, 01:24 AM   #9 (Print)
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I found myself literally saying out loud "Don't kill the chief... don't kill the chief" I really like the character and how the actor is playing him.

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Announcing the cancer only makes sense in a society none of the episodes have shown us.


Rather disagree. That the prophecies state that a dying leader would save them has been well established in previous episodes.
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Old 07-30-2005, 02:02 AM   #10 (Print)
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I know that this business about a dying leader has been brought up before. But, before this episode, the only people who cared seemed to be mystical priest types. Now, the President claims to be someone spoken of in scripture, and the group of 12 leaders ALL bow down and worship her.

Yet Adama and Tigh both seem to think all this talk of prophecy and scripture is bunk. And, at least to me, it seems like many/most people are with Adama on this one.

Even if I'm wrong on this, and everybody believes in the prophecy (and the writers can make up whatever they want on that point), I just don't like where that is probably going to take the show. I used to really like the President, and in the conflicts between her and Adama, who I also really like, there was some ambiguity about who was in the right. They were both pursuing reasonable, defensible, rational courses of action based on interests that partially overlapped.

Now, the President is either delusional (and Adama is right), or the prophecy is true in the sense that everything that has happened and will happen was predicted in the distant past (and Adama is mistaken). Either way, it seems the focus is going to be on this damn prophecy, which at least for me, has zero resonance with reality. It's like talking about using an inverse tachyon beam to close a spatial annomaly.

The idea that she might believe she is fulfilling prophecy, maybe because of the cancer drug, maybe not, but knows she better not tell anyone because they will think she is nuts, I did find interesting. When she tells everyone, and they genuflect, somehow it ruined it for me.

And Adama is still comatose, so the main political dynamic I liked in Season 1 is in bad shape.

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Old 07-30-2005, 02:07 AM   #11 (Print)
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Hopefully Adama will be waking up soon. I will speculate and say he will at the end of next week's ep.
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Old 07-30-2005, 02:25 AM   #12 (Print)
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Something has been missing this season... are Six and Gaius ever going to have (virtual) sex again?
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Old 07-30-2005, 06:13 AM   #13 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwreiner
I know that this business about a dying leader has been brought up before. But, before this episode, the only people who cared seemed to be mystical priest types. Now, the President claims to be someone spoken of in scripture, and the group of 12 leaders ALL bow down and worship her.

Yet Adama and Tigh both seem to think all this talk of prophecy and scripture is bunk. And, at least to me, it seems like many/most people are with Adama on this one.

Well, the prophecies are pretty specific (unlike, say, Revelation), and suddenly she very much fits the bill (previously, only Billy, Adama, and the doctor knew she was dying). If the choice is the Second Coming or a drunken lunatic military dictator...

But I find it interesting that she's now using the prophecy to effectively launch a coup.
Quote:
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Something has been missing this season... are Six and Gaius ever going to have (virtual) sex again?

I think Gaius has grown out of that. Before, sex was the only way Six could control him (almost literally leading him around by his, well, you know). Now, he is starting to have a sense of responsibility, and she's playing on that instead.

It's almost as if she's trying to evolve him...and perhaps succeeding.

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Old 07-30-2005, 06:38 AM   #14 (Print)
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It seems like Adama has been in a coma for a long time, but in show time, it's just been a couple of days since Boomer shot him.

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Old 07-30-2005, 07:10 AM   #15 (Print)
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Y'know, that's two weeks straight with no Boomer fix...

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Old 07-30-2005, 09:33 AM   #16 (Print)
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Are there more podcasts than this???

NEW! EPISODE 202: "VALLEY OF DARKNESS"
EPISODE 201: "SCATTERED"
EPISODE 113: "KOBOL'S LAST GLEAMING,"
EPISODE 112: "KOBOL'S LAST GLEAMING,"
EPISODE 111: "COLONIAL DAY"
EPISODE 110: "THE HAND OF GOD"
EPISODE 109: "TIGH ME UP, TIGH ME DOWN"

I didn't get one for last night's episode. And, can't find any for earlier ones.
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Old 07-30-2005, 11:20 AM   #17 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drumorgan
Are there more podcasts... ?

I didn't get one for last night's episode. And, can't find any for earlier ones.
That's all I have as well. They don't even have anything listed at the Sci Fi channel.

Oh well. Maybe the guy who updates the Podcasts for Sci Fi is on vacation.
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Old 07-30-2005, 11:25 AM   #18 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Helmerichs
But I find it interesting that she's now using the prophecy to effectively launch a coup.


poor choice of words, if you ask me (I know, I know..."who asked you?")

she is using the prophecy to reverse the coup, not to launch it...

plus, she's not "using the prophecy"...she believes it...she truly believes that this is the right path...

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Old 07-30-2005, 11:45 AM   #19 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GadgetFreak
Something has been missing this season... are Six and Gaius ever going to have (virtual) sex again?


Well I suppose if they are going to make this "baby" they will have to have lots of sex.

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Old 07-30-2005, 11:55 AM   #20 (Print)
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also worth noting that each of the 12 tribes seem to have a distinction that makes it different from the others...so it's not just that they each live on a different planet...

the Gemini, at least, are a "sect"...don't know if all the tribes are divided along religious lines or not...but it's worth paying attention to that detail...

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Old 07-30-2005, 12:04 PM   #21 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drumorgan
Are there more podcasts than this???

NEW! EPISODE 202: "VALLEY OF DARKNESS"
EPISODE 201: "SCATTERED"
EPISODE 113: "KOBOL'S LAST GLEAMING,"
EPISODE 112: "KOBOL'S LAST GLEAMING,"
EPISODE 111: "COLONIAL DAY"
EPISODE 110: "THE HAND OF GOD"
EPISODE 109: "TIGH ME UP, TIGH ME DOWN"

I didn't get one for last night's episode. And, can't find any for earlier ones.


As of now, that's all that is up on the feed...

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Old 07-30-2005, 12:15 PM   #22 (Print)
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202 went up a little late, though, didn't it?

Or maybe I just didn't notice iTunes had downloaded it for me...

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Old 07-30-2005, 12:18 PM   #23 (Print)
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Originally Posted by Anubys
poor choice of words, if you ask me (I know, I know..."who asked you?")

she is using the prophecy to reverse the coup, not to launch it...

No, her deposition was lawful--the agreement under which her Presidency was recognized left all military decisions to Adama, and she screwed him over when she effectively stole an important military asset and sent it on a private mission. At that point, her Presidency became illegitimate.

Now that she has removed herself from the lawful governance of the Fleet, she has decided to launch a coup to gain unlawful control. Whether or not she thinks she is right is irrelevent--she is a criminal.

(The ironic thing is that not only does she think she is right, but the storyline seems to confirm her belief. I suspect that the idea of illegal but right vs. legal and wrong is going to play heavily in the next few weeks...)

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Old 07-30-2005, 01:15 PM   #24 (Print)
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Originally Posted by jwreiner
Now, the President is either delusional (and Adama is right), or the prophecy is true in the sense that everything that has happened and will happen was predicted in the distant past (and Adama is mistaken). Either way, it seems the focus is going to be on this damn prophecy, which at least for me, has zero resonance with reality. It's like talking about using an inverse tachyon beam to close a spatial annomaly.


The whole point of the toaster's attack (and Six's motives) is about the differences in the God/gods belief. If you dismiss the spiritual aspects of the show, then you're missing out about half of the overall plot (the other being "humans just surviving").
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Old 07-30-2005, 02:17 PM   #25 (Print)
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No, her deposition was lawful--the agreement under which her Presidency was recognized left all military decisions to Adama, and she screwed him over when she effectively stole an important military asset and sent it on a private mission. At that point, her Presidency became illegitimate.


I thought we settled this argument after the end of last season...you admitted that you were wrong and I was right (that's my story and I'm sticking to it...don't bother with the truth!)...

The agreement they had was a secret agreement...Adama usurped the situation to gain more control/power than he deserved under their constitution...that was made clear by how she took command of the fleet (and gave him orders) at the start of the conflict and how they talked when they made their "deal" to share power...

so as far as anyone was concerned, she was the president and he staged a coup...we "know" that's not true, but the population at large doesn't...

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Old 07-30-2005, 04:23 PM   #26 (Print)
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Originally Posted by Rob Helmerichs
I think Gaius has grown out of that. Before, sex was the only way Six could control him (almost literally leading him around by his, well, you know). Now, he is starting to have a sense of responsibility, and she's playing on that instead.

It's almost as if she's trying to evolve him...and perhaps succeeding.


Sigh...you are right, but this is all about us! Some of us miss those scenes!
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Old 07-30-2005, 06:40 PM   #27 (Print)
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I'm sorry but it is Adama who has the power. He controls the only Military vessel in the fleet. With out the BS the fleet would have been destroyed a long time ago. The government they once HAD is now gone period. If you have to go down like 43 slots to get to her to be president then what government is there? Even here in the US now the president leaves military battlefield decisions to the General who is leading the overall assault. This isn't law by any means but after Vietnam we now have a situation where if we invade Iraq. The military commander will say I need freedom to make independent decisions when it comes to the battlefield and the personal I need.

Last season we had a forming of a new government that is provisional at best. Thats fine for civilian vessels. Now the Battlestar is going to run on military rules, regulations, and orders. Some type of joint cooperation will always be needed if they all want to make it and it's not unheard of to have more then one person share power. I think what we all see coming is the idiot that is now in control doesn't inspire loyalty and the military personal will begin to question there orders similar to what happen in Russia. I'd say there is a good chance we will see Adama wake up and side with the President and Tigh will be horrified at this and mentally break down. We also have to consider that they have just been waiting to set up the VP story line with the doctor.

So we basically have two crazies, a drunk, and a terrorist who could all possibly end up making bids for power. Then we have the only guy that is truly fit to be the top man in charge of this situation in a coma lol. So to me it's a very interesting situation to watch what there going to do. I'm all for Democracy but this is a war situation where the top military commander must be put in charge of military decisions to protect that fleet. Anything and I mean anything that is done to try to subvert that must be stomped out by the top military commander at almost any cost. Any government leader should know this and respect this responsiblity he has to uphold. Now if the situation was that they were on some type of peaceful expedition it would be different.

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Old 07-30-2005, 07:09 PM   #28 (Print)
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Adama does not want the presidency...he does not want to run a military dictatorship...he believes in the government and the separation of the military from governing...

he had no choice given the president's interference with military assets...

we all agree on that...

the debate is: given the situation, is what Adama do a coup or a lawful removal of the president?

I say it was a coup...most around here say it wasn't...

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Old 07-30-2005, 08:13 PM   #29 (Print)
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poor choice of words, if you ask me (I know, I know..."who asked you?")

she is using the prophecy to reverse the coup, not to launch it...

plus, she's not "using the prophecy"...she believes it...she truly believes that this is the right path...


You took all the words right out of my mouth.

One thing I disagre with you on,
In a previous message you refer to Tigh as being good military man/bad politician. I disagree with you there. He's a disgraceful military man. He seems to be serving only by the grace of Adama and is even only moderetly competent when kept by Adama on a short leash. The rest of the time, he's a poor leader and a forgetful, dangerous drunk.

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Old 07-30-2005, 08:17 PM   #30 (Print)
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It's like talking about using an inverse tachyon beam to close a spatial annomaly.


Hey! The tachyon bean WORKED, didn't it!? So I guess Picard and Data know just a LITTLE more about anti-time physics than you, mister. 'kay?
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