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Old 12-26-2005, 08:42 AM   #1 (Print)
Janice805
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National Feed & HDTV Question

Yesterday we spent the day at my daughter's house. She and her husband have been long-time D* customers (as I have), but, they just bought a large plasma TV. Along with that they purchased a D* HDTV Receiver and are paying for the HDTV Service and channels.

While I was wandering through the channels (checking out the good stuff), I noticed a Channel 86, WABC-NY. They have waivers for, and receive, the same channel on 386 (but without HD). Since they do not get the locals, but instead have waivers for and receive the east and west coast feeds of ABC, NBC, and FOX, why can't they receive those same "national feeds" in High Def?

While they were cooking I called D* and absolutely never understood the rep's answers as to why they were not allowed to have those same channels in Hi Def. As a matter of fact I had the rep on "speakerphone" and she was sooo rude, we all finally had to terminate the conversation as she was making us mad.

She kept saying something about yet another "new" FCC rule? But it never made sense to us as to why if they can get those same channels without Hi Def they cannot get them in Hi Def since they're paying for the HiDef Service, and, have waivers for those channels. Any thoughts before we call D* again today or tomorrow?

TIA

By the way. She talked them into receiving (additionally) our "locals" in order to at least get the national FOX feed in Hi Def. I hope that doesn't put them in a position to lose the nationals. What's going on?
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Old 12-26-2005, 09:38 AM   #2 (Print)
scottnsturbridge
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channel 80-88 are all in HD since they are the national feeds from NY and LA. Everyone with D** Hd service recieves these in HD.
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Old 12-26-2005, 09:56 AM   #3 (Print)
maharg18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottnsturbridge
channel 80-88 are all in HD since they are the national feeds from NY and LA. Everyone with D** Hd service recieves these in HD.


Not true.. You either must have a waiver or live in an O&O market to get these channels. There are many, many people who do not qualify for those channels.

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Old 12-26-2005, 10:02 AM   #4 (Print)
Janice805
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Maybe I didn't state the problem correctly above. When we tuned to those channels (86, etc.) it said "FOR ORDERING INFO CALL CUST. SERV X721". When we called D* they told us we are not ALLOWED to access those channels even though we are "allowed" (and pay for) the non-hi-def equivalents (Channels 382, 386, & 388).

My daughter and her husband have "waivers" in order to receive the National Feeds, and, are paying D* for their Hi Def service. I still don't understand Direct TV's position that they cannot access the Hi Def equivalent to those National Feed channels (ABC, NBC, and FOX New York).
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Old 12-26-2005, 11:53 AM   #5 (Print)
btwyx
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By my understanding you should get those channels. Try callling again until you get a rep who will turn them on for you. Just because a rep says something, doesn't make it true.

You may do better asking this sort of question in the HD forum, there's lots of discussion of this sort of thing there.

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Old 12-26-2005, 03:26 PM   #6 (Print)
JimSpence
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A couple of months ago DirecTV turned off half of the national HD feeds based on your location. Since you are on the west coast you can't receive the east coast feeds for network HD, although your waivers allow both coasts for the sd feeds (380-389).

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Old 12-26-2005, 03:59 PM   #7 (Print)
bidger
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When you call DirecTV, ask for the HD-DNS eligibility division. When they shut off the 2 HD feeds I was eligible for back in late Aug., that was the dept. I had to call to get them turned back on.

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Old 12-26-2005, 05:02 PM   #8 (Print)
Squeak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimSpence
A couple of months ago DirecTV turned off half of the national HD feeds based on your location. Since you are on the west coast you can't receive the east coast feeds for network HD, although your waivers allow both coasts for the sd feeds (380-389).


This is the answer -- you are only allowed to have one set of HD Nationals -- either east of west.

Since you are in Cali -- you get West feeds.

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Old 12-26-2005, 07:05 PM   #9 (Print)
Janice805
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Thanks for the input, but they aren't allowing access to the WEST COAST FEEDS either. I find that strange.
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Old 12-26-2005, 07:15 PM   #10 (Print)
TheBigDogs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Janice805
Thanks for the input, but they aren't allowing access to the WEST COAST FEEDS either. I find that strange.


From a DTV and FCC point of view, you must have waivers for both SD & HD feeds. The interesting thing is that your relatives appear to live in an area not covered (or claimed) by any locals. If that's the case, I can't imagine who DTV will petition for your HD waivers.

Please keep the forum informed about what happens, this sounds like it could be very interesting.
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Old 12-26-2005, 09:58 PM   #11 (Print)
Janice805
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BigDogs, you mean you need waivers for the same channels but one for SD and yet another for their HD version??? My daughter, her husband and I are all in Santa Maria, CA. They have D* and so do I, but they now have D* Hi Def.

Let me clarify once more because I tend to ramble and not give enough info.
They do not subscribe to our locals. We BOTH (both families) have waivers on file with D* in order to get the national feeds of ABC, NBC, and FOX. We both currently can get the East and West feeds of those networks (Los Angeles and New York).

My daughter (and I also) have waivers on file with D*. Since they have now added and are paying for HiDef, why can't they get those SAME network channels but in HiDef? I mean, it's the same stations. For example: she gets ABC SD (386) but can't get ABC HD (86)? ... same WABC-NY channel.

Are you saying she needs to get yet another set of separate waivers just to get those same channels, but in HiDef? If so, it's beauracracy gone wild ... LOL.
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Old 12-27-2005, 12:34 AM   #12 (Print)
naijai
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According to rules by the FCC the HD and SD feeds have been seperated so to get either one you will nedd different waivers and because they have had the SD feeds of the east and west coast feeds they are allowed to keeps those feeds but for the HD feeds east and central coast will only get the east coast feed and mountain and pacific will only get west coast feeds//now the answer would be that even though they have the SD feeds unless those channels are part of their local channel line up they will have to get waivers to get those channels and the waivers will have to be sent to their local channel affiliate who will either approve or deny the waiver and its all up to yur local afiliate so dtv is the middle man bringing yu the channels if they are allowed to

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Old 12-28-2005, 02:25 AM   #13 (Print)
collegegrad2006
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There was a recent law that was applied that if you live in an area where dtv offers local channels, they cannot add or request waivers for the la/ny stations...if anyone had the service before the law was enforced, they are grandfathered. for hd la/ny, you have to speak to a special department that only handles the hd la/ny eligibility. dtv has nothing to do with the outcome of the waiver request for the hd networks.
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Old 12-28-2005, 08:05 PM   #14 (Print)
TankBW
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I totally agree with collegegrad2006. I had the same problem as Janice805.
I had previously had waivers for the SD networks E & W coast. Then when D* made the HD networks available on Chan's 80-89, I received all of them. A few months later, I received a notice that D* could only supply the East coast feeds in HD, but a few days later I lost all the HD networks.
When I questioned the CSR about this, he transferred me to the HD-DNS dept, and they told me that the only way I might get the East coast networks back was to, again, request waivers from my locals. (45 day wait)
My local networks all denied waivers except FOX, so my present situation is:
I still get my E & W coast SD feeds.
The only HD network feed I get is Fox.

My overall take on this whole situation is that we would all be better off if they just dropped High Definition completely. All it is, is a scam to sell more (read more expensive) TV sets. Oh, I know, the HD picture is sharper, but if you have a newer HD TV that upconverts the signal, you have to be pretty eagle-eyed, and really pay attention to discern the difference. And once you get engrossed in the program you forget about it after a while anyway.
I know the HD die-hards out there won't agree with this, but once the broadcasters start dropping SD programming, and we have to start replacing all our old TVs, or using converters, it's going to start getting pretty expensive to gain that 8 or 10 % improvement to HD.
And remember, all those TiVo's out there that don't operate on MPEG-4 are destined to become doorstops once the switch is made, and SD is gone. What! You say it's going to be years before that happens? Don't bet on it. If the manufacturers are going to sell any HD TVs in large volume, they cant let SD hang around for much longer.

Well that should generate a few replies.

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Old 12-28-2005, 08:26 PM   #15 (Print)
ebonovic
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I am not even sure how to reply.... 8 or 10% improvement?

The SOUND improvement alone is more then 8 to 10%.....
SD is not going anywhere any time soon.... There are over 200 channels out there, some of which will NEVER push anything in HD.

The laws that are changing have ZERO to do with what the format of the program is... They have to do with the means they are broadcasted to you. Digital vs Analog... There are no laws that are changing for the "format" of what we see.

Ultimately it will only affect those people that have no access to cable or satelite providers, that must get their signal via OTA Antennas.... And hence why there has been three delays in the date, and there isn't one set yet. FCC wants that price of the "convert" box to be less then $50...and the converter box is simply to get the DIGITAL signal, and push it back out in analog form.... And I am sure in there it will have programming to make sure it shows the "middle" segement of a 16:9 program so it looks fine on your older TV's.

The SD-TiVos are going to last a long time... Even the HD-DTivos... The MPEG-2 format for SD is not going anywhere... and yes, eventually the MPEG2 format for HD is going to go away, but right now that is what 8 channels? And that is being done purely for bandwith reason... Everyone wants more and more and more... but you can only fit so much into the "beam"...

YEARS... yes YEARS before you see the HD-MPEG2 streams completely shutdown.
Probably NEVER for the SD-MPEG2 streams to shutdown...

If you look at the broadcasters, it is very straight forward for them to downrez an HD signal to 480i... So once they get their equipment up to HD, there is no reason for them to not provide a 480i (which is SD) version of a program, via one of the digital spectrum channels.... In fact... that would probable end up with BETTER quality for those with just SD...


The confusion for YEARS has been that this change has to do with what you see and hear on the TV... it is not... This is how it gets from the Broadcaster to your TV... nothing more nothing less.

One of the ADVANTAGES of the change is that the digital spectrum opens the door FOR HD broadcasts, where in the Analog band it was nearly impossible.

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Old 12-29-2005, 03:05 PM   #16 (Print)
JimSpence
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IMHO, the whole local HD (and local SD for that matter) is a total waste.
Why do we need 210 versions of national networks being delivered piecemeal to all parts of the country. With today's technology, I'd think they could have come up with a better way.

But, of course it all comes down to advertising $$$$s.

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