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Old 11-29-2004, 11:10 AM   #121 (Print)
Kimt
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Quote:
Originally posted by ZeoTiVo
if you want to escape DRM and advertising then go to Sage or stick with an older DVR you do not plan to update ,within a few years all upto date DVRs will have both of these.



Did you have to reprint my entire post as your quote.

AS to your answers

I'm not trying to escape drm I'm just stating a fact. Why is it when someone mentions DRM in a negative way everyone jumps to the conclusion you want to pirate something, drm implemented correctly can be positive, DRM implemented badly can only be a hinderous to innovation.

DNNA has some real plans for replaytv, just because they haven't released a new product and have lost market share is no reason to discount them. If you read their most recent statements they are moving quickly to the centralized media server technology I'm talking about. DCT-TCIP. which will allow secured distribution within a local nat but not outside the subnet. Will tivotogo allow this. One huge negative I didn't mention is it is neither mac or linux compatible, You want to talk about the future, ok , your assuming Windows is going to continue to dominate the desktop, that may not be so, some are predicting that Longhorn will be MS biggest blunder. There is nothing technically preventing apple from releasing a version of osx that will run on Intel platforms. Will tivo offer any diskless solutions. howabout NAS compatable products.
One or more encoders feeding multiple soft clients both tv based or portable solutions.

Microsoft is headed in that direction.
Replaytv aka DNNA is headed in that direction.
I don't see Tivo headed in that direction. Rather they are counting on aligning themselves with web services such as cinemaNow etc.. there is no proof that that business model is viable.


Usb solutions are far less desirable than built in ethernet support, even pcmica solutions are better. And it appears the Tivo only supports usb 1.1 right now. not 2.0. (or at least my particular model)

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Old 11-29-2004, 11:35 AM   #122 (Print)
hawk4hire
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Tivo deleting things...

So... does this mean the prediction of the early demise of the VCR is incorrect?? You can fast forward through the commercials w/out annoying things from TIVO - you can save your PPV movies.....
Hmmmmm wonder if Tivo is shooting themselves in the foot with this idea... Time to bring out my VCR.... nah... just get my DVD burner opporating more... lol

hawk
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Old 11-29-2004, 01:04 PM   #123 (Print)
ZeoTiVo
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kimt
Did you have to reprint my entire post as your quote.

AS to your answers

I'm not trying to escape drm I'm just stating a fact. Why is it when someone mentions DRM in a negative way everyone jumps to the conclusion you want to pirate something, drm implemented correctly can be positive, DRM implemented badly can only be a hinderous to innovation.

DNNA has some real plans for replaytv, just because they haven't released a new product and have lost market share is no reason to discount them. If you read their most recent statements they are moving quickly to the centralized media server technology I'm talking about. DCT-TCIP. which will allow secured distribution within a local nat but not outside the subnet. Will tivotogo allow this. One huge negative I didn't mention is it is neither mac or linux compatible, You want to talk about the future, ok , your assuming Windows is going to continue to dominate the desktop, that may not be so, some are predicting that Longhorn will be MS biggest blunder. There is nothing technically preventing apple from releasing a version of osx that will run on Intel platforms. Will tivo offer any diskless solutions. howabout NAS compatable products.
One or more encoders feeding multiple soft clients both tv based or portable solutions.

Microsoft is headed in that direction.
Replaytv aka DNNA is headed in that direction.
I don't see Tivo headed in that direction. Rather they are counting on aligning themselves with web services such as cinemaNow etc.. there is no proof that that business model is viable.


Usb solutions are far less desirable than built in ethernet support, even pcmica solutions are better. And it appears the Tivo only supports usb 1.1 right now. not 2.0. (or at least my particular model)


you put "Heavy DRM" down as a CON - I repsonded to that directly by saying that TiVo was implementing DRM correctly "macrovision on PPV and VOd to abide by agreed upon viewing constraints when getting the PPV content" I never even mentioned the word pirating nor implied you wanted to do that. Also I was pointing out that every commercially sold DVR product will have DRM so that evens out. Open source will be the only ones without DRM if they can avoid it.

Plans for replay do not make me hold my breath - they never even got cooperative scheduling between two replay units working with bugs. So the plans for replay sound swell ( I have even posted how TiVo should do the same with thin players for each TiVo to a backend server etc..) I would bet my money on TiVo making it actually work long before replay makes it ACTUALLY work.

TivoToGo was demoed working on a MAC. next year people will be running TiVo desktop on a MAC . No idea about linux - but again that will be a small part of the customer base. And yes TiVoToGo will work on the total local subnet not just one PC. It will most likely in the future even work to specific small set of PCs off the local subnet. Do you think DNNA will bring that feature back for replay

do you seriously think you have a valid counterpoint on why the TiVo may porpose a security risk by saying windows is going away. Do you really think most homes will not be running windows come 2009 or even 2014.

and how does NAS solutions or diskless or sattelites even counter my biggest PRO of TiVo being an extremely simple user appliance to setup and use. If you want to dig in and setup all the possibilities then great, go to AVSfourms and knock yourself out. Most consumers do not want to do that - they buy a PC from Dell or a retailer fire it up and use it. They get a cable company DVR , fire it up and use it, or they find out about TiVo fire it up and use it. That is what Microsfot is not getting - fire it up and use it - they should sell a Home Media appliance that looks nothing like a PC. Let the technically inclined open it up and see the PC inside if they want.

and what good is a media server if you can not go to a menu item and use it, a la netflix downloads - you ironically point out cinemanow which biggest downfall after charging too much is that the content ends up on a PC with no way to play it on the TV unless you understand PCs.

so anyhow I am done working through your ramblings - if you want to actually respond to the counterpoints I made per CON I might react otherwise have fun in your own little world view.
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Old 11-29-2004, 01:24 PM   #124 (Print)
Kimt
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Everytime someone disagrees with the "expert" opinion in this forum its rambling or ranting. Or wanting to get something without paying for it.

1) seting up the replaytv, was taking it out of the box, pluging in a ethernet cable to supplied internal rj45 connector and going through a setup wizard. The units work with any tv, even the oldest because they pass through the video signal to the coxal connection, so it works even if your old clunker does't have av inputs. Which was my coaxal comment you did not understand.

2) Although not sanctioned by replaytv, there are several solutions for getting content off of the replay box on to a server. Future plans for replaytv want to legitimize that, abiet with some drm, but thats as you correctly pointed out is inevitable.

3) Room to Room streaming on a replaytv is nearly perfect, it gets better with each software update (and there are firmware updates), and replay to replay scheduling is getting better too.

Your absolutely right, I am one of the tech heavy folks from the avs forum, who sometimes pokes there heads out to see what other folks are doing.

Over their people are running terabyte servers with multiple thin clients, fed by several different encoding methods. Most of it opensource, but you know what it works...

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Old 11-29-2004, 01:42 PM   #125 (Print)
interactiveTV
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kimt
Everytime someone disagrees with the "expert" opinion in this forum its rambling or ranting.
Ummm, no...

going on about lawyers, judges, blue states, and attempts to remove God are all rants and have nothing to do with Tivo. It wasn't your disagreement, it was your tangent BS that I not only found offensive and insulting, I also found it to be seperatist (though I know how much you dislike that I guess it's not nearly as offensive or dangerous as the Shakespeare quote you alluded to).

Don't spread BS. Ranting about judges and lawyers and blue states is ranting, not opinions on Tivo -- regardless how ill-informed or inaccurate the base assumptions that form those opinions happen to be. You got flamed by me for flaming me on something else, not Tivo. If you can give it, take it.

I'm also sure, since you are so techie, that you know all about Palladium. Good luck with your HTPC based PVR in the future.

Anyone can do anything illegally but that doesn't mean it's right or widespread. I'm sure you'll retort about hacking Palladium and the somewhat accurate theory that every scheme can be broken. I guess it just depends on the cost to break it or go around it.

_ITV

I thought you weren't going to post in this forum anymore? FLIP-FLOP much?
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Old 11-29-2004, 02:10 PM   #126 (Print)
Kimt
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Actually I think a lot of people do a lot of ranting and rambling in this forum.

Palidium is another example of microsoft trying to rule the desktop, its another reason that many technical folks are predicting longhorn and its future incarnations are going to fail. Microsoft is trying to kill anything linux or unix based I don't think it will succeed.

Lets get something in the open. I do not condon or do any of the following:
Download shows or music from the internet
Use p2p , except for valid science related data or legit program distribution
I do not share content over the internet
I don't even copy shows to dvd anymore , its not worth it, the time frame between season ending and dvd release has shrunk considerably, I'd rather have a dvd than a show copied on dvd or vhs. I've become addicted to the little extra features on most dvd's, like the commentaries.

I do archive shows on to my internal server, because harddrive's are much cheaper than pvr's. There is nothing in the law that says you cannot do that.

I did not invent the ideas of blue states vs. red states, I'm sorry I mentioned that, it was detracting from the issues.

I do believe Tivo is taking a wrong direction, I understand that market pressures are drving them to it.

I DO have a legitimate gripe with lawyers, I have had several bad experiences in my life that have mediated that position. Although in retrospect the remark I made was off base.

Now some questions for a change:

I was under the impression from some posts in pvblog that tivotogo would not support the mac because it was based on wmp 10's drm technology which is not supported on the mac. If this is incorrect that is good news.
Not everyone in the world is a windows person.

Also someone mentioned tivotogo would be able to transfer shows amoung the private nat, any provision for soft clients. Many of us use the connected dvd players, it would be great if tivotogo could stream shows to similar devices, I know of a couple players that support wma and windows media connect. (not the best solution but certainly acceptable)

Everyone is aloud a little flip-flop, just for the record I didn't hold it against Kerry.

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Old 11-29-2004, 02:12 PM   #127 (Print)
ZeoTiVo
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kimt
Everytime someone disagrees with the "expert" opinion in this forum its rambling or ranting. Or wanting to get something without paying for it.

1) seting up the replaytv, was taking it out of the box, pluging in a ethernet cable to supplied internal rj45 connector and going through a setup wizard. The units work with any tv, even the oldest because they pass through the video signal to the coxal connection, so it works even if your old clunker does't have av inputs. Which was my coaxal comment you did not understand.

2) Although not sanctioned by replaytv, there are several solutions for getting content off of the replay box on to a server. Future plans for replaytv want to legitimize that, abiet with some drm, but thats as you correctly pointed out is inevitable.

3) Room to Room streaming on a replaytv is nearly perfect, it gets better with each software update (and there are firmware updates), and replay to replay scheduling is getting better too.

Your absolutely right, I am one of the tech heavy folks from the avs forum, who sometimes pokes there heads out to see what other folks are doing.

Over their people are running terabyte servers with multiple thin clients, fed by several different encoding methods. Most of it opensource, but you know what it works...


if you are going to make it a CON that TiVo does not pass the signal through the coax then I see this as another CON that only effects a small percentage of viewers.

again Replay had issues making what they had work completely right and who knows who they have been able to hire to work on it now(. So I would not hold my breath on exciting new replay units.)

So you can keep on spreading the vaporware on Replay units if you want. My comment on rambling is that you keep going off on tangents -such as Windows being replaced for home users in reaction to my comment on your CON of TiVo being an unknown security risk.


Also since you have not repsonded more specifically to any of my rebuttals to the CONS that you concede they were really not CONS after all.
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Old 11-29-2004, 02:25 PM   #128 (Print)
Kimt
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Quote:
Originally posted by ZeoTiVo
if you are going to make it a CON that TiVo does not pass the signal through the coax then I see this as another CON that only effects a small percentage of viewers.

again Replay had issues making what they had work completely right and who knows who they have been able to hire to work on it now(. So I would not hold my breath on exciting new replay units.)

So you can keep on spreading the vaporware on Replay units if you want. My comment on rambling is that you keep going off on tangents -such as Windows being replaced for home users in reaction to my comment on your CON of TiVo being an unknown security risk.


Also since you have not repsonded more specifically to any of my rebuttals to the CONS that you concede they were really not CONS after all.


Two comments:

The windows stuff was in respose to the post from InteractiveTv about Microsoft's Palladium initiative.

DNNA is a very large company, and they do have plans for replaytv. I have two replaytv units and have had no problems.
Most of the streaming issues reported are do to poor network configuration not the equipment.

I have not been able to get a clear direction were tivo is going. And I do think there is a growing trend toward litigation vs. innovation.

I will attempt to stay on topic from now on.

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Old 11-29-2004, 02:36 PM   #129 (Print)
Rkkeller
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How about we just unplug the phone line from our Tivos so it gets no future upgrades ?



Rich
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Old 11-29-2004, 02:45 PM   #130 (Print)
ZeoTiVo
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Quote:
You want to talk about the future, ok , your assuming Windows is going to continue to dominate the desktop, that may not be so, some are predicting that Longhorn will be MS biggest blunder. There is nothing technically preventing apple from releasing a version of osx that will run on Intel platforms. Will tivo offer any diskless solutions. howabout NAS compatable products.

this came up before ITV's post on Palladium.

How about a link to all these great plans from DNNA for the replay unit. Since you seem so certain of what is soon to come then surely there is an official press release or even a website listing these plans. Google seems to not be able to find it though

basically your timing of coming here and posting on the plans for replay is very suspect, it being in the midst of holiday shopping.


As for TiVo's plans . they have copying between units which works very well on a good network adn will probably be better once TiVoToGo is released. TiVoToGo will be even easier than DVDarchive and you can count on its future functionality as it is an authorised part of TiVo's plans. iVo has spoken officially of plans to include web content downloaded directly to the TiVo adn it has HMO that allows music and jpegs to be played on the TiVo. the only part missing from the plan is the streaming or copying of Video from the network to the TiVo. What products was Replay including in their units on the store shelves to rival this ? Oh wait what units are on the store shelf at my Best Buy ?

anyway seems like the CONs as they relate to a Replay are fairly solidly rebutted.

As for the HTPC the CONS are similarly rebutted save that obviosuly you can do more with a PC if you care to take the time to set it up and integrate everything together. A superior DVR that my family would end up never using. I might also point out that HTPCs do not occupy much space on BEst Buy shelves unless you count going around the store with a shopping cart and picking up the parts.

let me know if you have something new to say in your not posting here.
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Old 11-29-2004, 02:47 PM   #131 (Print)
Kimt
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rkkeller
How about we just unplug the phone line from our Tivos so it gets no future upgrades ?



Rich


Your not serious are you? tivo's, replaytv's and every other dvr have to stay in touch with a mothership to get guide updates and to maintain their subscription.

I'm not questioning wether they should get updates, I'm just having trouble seeing how a tivo fits into a home networking scheme. Tivo's seem to get along only with other tivos. and maybe pc's.

Kind of makes all the media adaptors being sold useless..... at least with a Tivo. I' m sceptical of tivotogo because similar claims were made by microsoft with windows media connect, it was supposed to integrate everything.. and it turned out to be a real dog in terms of features and especially performance. (this is on topic because it is in the framework of discussing concerns about tivotogo's claims)

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Old 11-29-2004, 02:54 PM   #132 (Print)
Kimt
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Quote:
Originally posted by ZeoTiVo
this came up before ITV's post on Palladium.

How about a link to all these great plans from DNNA for the replay unit. Since you seem so certain of what is soon to come then surely there is an official press release or even a website listing these plans. Google seems to not be able to find it though

basically your timing of coming here and posting on the plans for replay is very suspect, it being in the midst of holiday shopping.


As for TiVo's plans . they have copying between units which works very well on a good network adn will probably be better once TiVoToGo is released. TiVoToGo will be even easier than DVDarchive and you can count on its future functionality as it is an authorised part of TiVo's plans. iVo has spoken officially of plans to include web content downloaded directly to the TiVo adn it has HMO that allows music and jpegs to be played on the TiVo. the only part missing from the plan is the streaming or copying of Video from the network to the TiVo. What products was Replay including in their units on the store shelves to rival this ? Oh wait what units are on the store shelf at my Best Buy ?

anyway seems like the CONs as they relate to a Replay are fairly solidly rebutted.

As for the HTPC the CONS are similarly rebutted save that obviosuly you can do more with a PC if you care to take the time to set it up and integrate everything together. A superior DVR that my family would end up never using. I might also point out that HTPCs do not occupy much space on BEst Buy shelves unless you count going around the store with a shopping cart and picking up the parts.

let me know if you have something new to say in your not posting here.


I've make an attempt to stop the ranting and stay on topic, please do the same.

I'm not sure I can link to the documents you wish, but if you search the replaytv and showstopper forum on avsforum.com you will find what you are seeking.

Dnna imediate plans are to sell there inventory of standalone rtv's, and move to the new hd-pvr . (yea, it might be vaporware but we will see)

Not best buy but try compusa.

Microsoft media center is available at most electronic outlets, some web based companies sell htpcs preconfigured with sage.tv.

I'm not bashing tivo here, I'm jist trying to figure out how we are going to use it. I was actually looking for a replacement for our replays and I just haven't found it yet... next try the cable companies dvr's.

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Old 11-29-2004, 02:57 PM   #133 (Print)
ZeoTiVo
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kimt
Now some questions for a change:

I was under the impression from some posts in pvblog that tivotogo would not support the mac because it was based on wmp 10's drm technology which is not supported on the mac. If this is incorrect that is good news.
Not everyone in the world is a windows person.

Also someone mentioned tivotogo would be able to transfer shows amoung the private nat, any provision for soft clients. Many of us use the connected dvd players, it would be great if tivotogo could stream shows to similar devices, I know of a couple players that support wma and windows media connect. (not the best solution but certainly acceptable)


since you asked --

TiVoToGo will support the MAC, I jsut do not expect it soon since they made the switch from a USB dongle to hold the keys to a software based solution. Seemed the quick way to switch was windows Media DRM - someone is probably working on MAC version of this but I would think it will take some time to accomplish.

Soft clients have been mentioned by TiVo as the future - no idea if that is in any official statement - but at the very least they should be able to do it in Windows OS players. Since they will have burning to DVD to be played in any DVD then getting the files to play in a portable video player is not far behind that. I am sure those who want to "extend" TiVoToGo functionality will be playing files in PVRs.
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Old 11-29-2004, 06:02 PM   #134 (Print)
Kimt
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Mac and pc , that would certainly convince even me that my Tivo purchase wasn't in vain. Be nice to have a solution that didn't involve "extending", would be even nicer if it had a open (even limited) api we developers could work with.

I program in vb, c++ and java, but my passion is networking, I've been moving video around local networks since before someone even thought of the idea of media extenders.
Unfortuantely most of this stuff would be considered a "no no" in todays climate, much like any talk of going to Mars was in the Clinton Administration,, Now thats open to discussion so maybe there's hope along these lines too.

I haven't seen any hard numbers, but how many people actually take the time and risk to pirate movies over the internet, it must be a relatively small percentage. Why restrict technology because someone might do something illegal with it.

OK, I hope tivotogo comes out soon and is worth the wait, and just let me add I and some of my friends would be more than happy to beta test a Mac OSX version.

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Old 11-29-2004, 06:35 PM   #135 (Print)
interactiveTV
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kimt
Unfortuantely most of this stuff would be considered a "no no" in todays climate, much like any talk of going to Mars was in the Clinton Administration,, Now thats open to discussion so maybe there's hope along these lines too.
Can we PLEASE leave the politcal references alone already? Yeesh, it's like you can't help yourself. A thousand other similis would have made your point yet it's like you just can't stop.

Quote:
Originally posted by Kimt
I haven't seen any hard numbers, but how many people actually take the time and risk to pirate movies over the internet, it must be a relatively small percentage. Why restrict technology because someone might do something illegal with it.
http://www.dailynews.com/Stories/0,...2554352,00.html

That was film88.com, by the way.

http://www.mpaa.org/anti%2Dpiracy/ gives a number but (a) it's suspect in my mind and (b) it includes all forms including VCD sales in China

Obviously though, your logic is somewhat falty in that if the industry waits UNTIL it's a problem, then it is too late (see MP3). You're right though that the number in hard terms is probably pretty small still but that's a function of bandwidth and storage costs, both increasing. Get that Verizon 30Mbit service and some cheap 400GB drives and I would bet you that movie piracy explodes.

The real game is the HD DVD (or Blu Ray) as the MPAA has already stated privately that DVD is unprotectable as the cost to crack is too cheap and easy. They know whatever is next won't be foolproof but the hope is to make as expensive and clumsy as possible to go around.

The real game is also for HD TV, not NTSC. The Macrovision product is just that, a Macrovision product trying to do whatever it can in the meantime but it has no force of law really. DMCA -- even with recent court rulings -- is what the MPAA and the TV industry is counting on.

Yes, today's rules, products and enforcement seem to make little sense in today's world but that is shortsighted. They are taking the longer view in creating a system that protects high definition version (either broadcast/cable /dbs or on a physical disk or streamed) that people will be migrating to in the next few years.

Toshiba's announcement of 4 studios and a HD DVD player by holiday 2005 will be the start as will the July 1, 2005 Broadcast Flag kick-in.

They want to clamp down on "open" Internet distribution before HD truly kicks in. The "shared in-house" stuff, for the most part (and especially with broadcast) won't be an issue at all. When that stuff starts to get cracked is when problems will occur.

This is a long-term game and we're early in the first quarter.

_ITV

P.S. Who cares about Mars? I'd rather my drinking water was drinkable than trying to find water on Mars. Kill the Space Station/Shuttle and NASA has money. So glad NASA got a nice budget chunk while the NJ seaports are still unprotected. Wonderful priorities. Keep sending Homeland Security money to Idaho where they REALLY need it. point? Don't make political references and cheap shots unless you REALLY want the discussion. So don't come back saying you want a truce then do this BS again.
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Old 11-29-2004, 06:53 PM   #136 (Print)
Kimt
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Quote:
[i]P.S. Who cares about Mars? I'd rather my drinking water was drinkable than trying to find water on Mars. Kill the Space Station/Shuttle again. [/B]


Wasn't a cheap political shot, my two passions are computers and the space program. Of the later I am very politically active in that movement. don't get me started this is not the forum for that.
try www.newmars.com or www.space.com. I'd be more than happy to debate the issue.

As for truce, I think I'm finally seeing were your coming from, and I've learned more about tivotogo than I did before, and now I am excited, especially if it works on a Mac. passion number 3 I love Macs and Cats.

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Old 11-29-2004, 11:51 PM   #137 (Print)
ZeoTiVo
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kimt
Mac and pc , that would certainly convince even me that my Tivo purchase wasn't in vain. Be nice to have a solution that didn't involve "extending", would be even nicer if it had a open (even limited) api we developers could work with.
OK, I hope tivotogo comes out soon and is worth the wait, and just let me add I and some of my friends would be more than happy to beta test a Mac OSX version.


there is an SDK for the current Tivo desktop for HMO. It is in Tivos best interest to provide an SDK for TivoToGo as well, I am fairly sure their will be one.

Since TivoToGo has not come out yet , I would bear in mind that MAC has not been in recent press releases and may even be what is holding it up. You may have to be patient on the MAC side.
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Old 11-30-2004, 12:13 AM   #138 (Print)
joeonsunset
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FYI--- someone eariler in this post said that this wouldn't really be a loss in functionality since Tivo never said you could record PPV movies and watch them for an unlimited amount of time in the first place.

This is NOT true. Since Tivo advertised its functionality as being able to record television and watch store it for an unlimited amount of time ("Save Until I Delete" !!), it's Tivo's burden to specifically exempt certain television content in their advertisements (PPV and it looks like soon HBO.) This IS a loss of service and is taking away functionality that I paid for when I bought my Tivo. I'm not going to get up in arms about pay-per-view, but if HBO ever really starts doing this it sounds like a lot of people should be getting their money back!
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Old 11-30-2004, 12:26 AM   #139 (Print)
dgh
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Quote:
Originally posted by joeonsunset
but if HBO ever really starts doing this it sounds like a lot of people should be getting their money back!


There's always ebay. I could sell my lifetime service there now for $50 more than I paid for it even after using it for four years. Perhaps if the HBO thing happens and becomes well-known, then I'll have to sell it for only what I paid.
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Old 11-30-2004, 12:31 AM   #140 (Print)
joeonsunset
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That's true--- I might do just that especially in Moxi turns about to be viable. I mean, I'm sure Moxi'll be clamped down by the cable company, but if Tivo is too, who cares?
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Old 11-30-2004, 09:09 AM   #141 (Print)
Kimt
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Quote:
Originally posted by ZeoTiVo
there is an SDK for the current Tivo desktop for HMO. It is in Tivos best interest to provide an SDK for TivoToGo as well, I am fairly sure their will be one.

Since TivoToGo has not come out yet , I would bear in mind that MAC has not been in recent press releases and may even be what is holding it up. You may have to be patient on the MAC side.


I wouldn't expect it to roll out with mac support initially , but at least someone is thinking about it.

I have a suggestion, you can just ignore it if you like. A lot of us are hoping for some kind of thin client support. I know that could have some impact on Tivo sales, but that is the direction your competetors (or potential competetors eg. pinnalesys medicenter ) are going.

I've been doing some exploring of the mce media extender sdk, its .net based, but it also appears these things are capable of running java applets. They also appear to support wmv 9 codec , and probably 10 natively with full drm support. and mpeg 1 and II.
I suspect somekind of tivo remote scheduling could be done, and just maybe TivoToGo. Just something for you to think about.

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Old 11-30-2004, 09:27 AM   #142 (Print)
interactiveTV
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Quote:
Originally posted by joeonsunset
This is NOT true. Since Tivo advertised its functionality as being able to record television and watch store it for an unlimited amount of time ("Save Until I Delete" !!), it's Tivo's burden to specifically exempt certain television content in their advertisements (PPV and it looks like soon HBO.) This IS a loss of service and is taking away functionality that I paid for when I bought my Tivo. I'm not going to get up in arms about pay-per-view, but if HBO ever really starts doing this it sounds like a lot of people should be getting their money back!
No. You're wrong. Your facts are wrong, your logic is wrong, your conclusion is wrong.

Tivo never advertised as store for an unlimited amount of time (which is not protected under the Betamax ruling anyway and is NOT a right you have ever had).

Tivo has no such burdon in its advertisments just as a camera company need not put in a disclaimer that I do not have the right to use my camera anywhere I want. From a customer expectation standpoint, in the future, it would probably behoove Tivo and the rest of the PVR industry to ensure the consumer is educated. Legally? Nope.

No one would have any chance in hell of getting their money back.

Read the service agreement. You agreed to it. Here is a portion:

http://www.tivo.com/5.11.2.asp

4. We Don't Control Third-Party Content!
The TiVo service gives you the ability to access audio, video, and other media over which TiVo exercises no editorial or programming control ("Third Party Content"). You understand that: (a) TiVo does not guarantee the access to or the ability to record, display, or transfer any particular program; (b) programming is not under TiVo's control; (c) programming providers may restrict or limit the ability to record, display, view or transfer particular programs by using a variety of copy protection mechanisms; (d) content providers may restrict or revoke access to their content at any time; (e) TiVo is not responsible for and has no editorial control over any Third Party Content; and (f) TiVo has no control over the distribution of such content. You agree that TiVo will have no liability to you, or anyone else who uses your account and TiVo DVR, with regard to any Third Party Content.
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Old 11-30-2004, 09:33 AM   #143 (Print)
ZeoTiVo
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there will be some sort of key to the media you get off the TiVo - this key willbe software based and probably tied to something in the "PC" running it via registry settings. these kinds of things usually use some variable like a NIC MAC address.

so if TiVoToGo follows that route then if you stream a a file as it is from TiVoToGo you have to account for this in the thin player to decrypt the file for playback. This would probably be the hard route to go.

instead it is probably easier to create something to use the PC that has TiVoToGo on it to open up the file using TiVos DRM setup and then stream out a MPEG2 stream to whatever.
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Old 11-30-2004, 12:55 PM   #144 (Print)
Kimt
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Quote:
Originally posted by ZeoTiVo
there will be some sort of key to the media you get off the TiVo - this key willbe software based and probably tied to something in the "PC" running it via registry settings. these kinds of things usually use some variable like a NIC MAC address.

so if TiVoToGo follows that route then if you stream a a file as it is from TiVoToGo you have to account for this in the thin player to decrypt the file for playback. This would probably be the hard route to go.

instead it is probably easier to create something to use the PC that has TiVoToGo on it to open up the file using TiVos DRM setup and then stream out a MPEG2 stream to whatever.


It would make more scense to do what apple does with itunes, allow limited connected clients within the same subnet. That would be cool, and quite secure.

If Tivotogo is tied to a single pc, I don't think it will have much of an influence on generating new revenue, The competition is way ahead, eg. Latest version of pinnacle showcenter is now integrated with there mediacenter 100 encoder (creating a diskless pvr), newest version of mce2005 has similar functionality, New versions of pc software beyond tv and sage.tv have integrated upnp servers.
Copying to dvd was last years technology, this year its NAS, PPM's, media adaptors, Large media centric harddrives. Not going immeadiately after the mac market is also bad, yes the mac does not have the user base the pc does, however I suspect more powerbooks are used for multimedia than pc notebooks.

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Old 11-30-2004, 01:55 PM   #145 (Print)
ZeoTiVo
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TiVo has stated a limit of 10 devices including TiVos. they are trusted by fact of TiVos being on the same account and the PCs being on the same subnet as the TiVo they get shows from.

The one feature not mentioned in press releases is copying/playing video back to the TiVo from the PC but it was the most requested feature in surveys of what people wanted.

so in a sense I use my SDH400 as a client and gets shows off the Stand alone to watch on my main TV - the Stand Alone becomes my second tuner for conflict resolution. Not as agood as a thin client - but you could use a PC as a thin client to TiVo when TiVoToGo comes out, and as you talked about before - once the SDK comes out for TiVoToGo you can probably write some cool stuff to gussy up the thin client.
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