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Old 12-16-2004, 10:48 AM   #271 (Print)
rvaniwaa
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dan Collins
FWIW, according to one of my sources, if and when DirecTV supports the MRV features (and he said he could not comment on a time frame) it will work with EITHER standard multiswitches and ethernet adapters (wired or wireless) OR this new systems which would connect the USB port to the coax and operate the network over the RG-6, using the hub built into this new hybrid multswitch.


EXCELLENT! This also leaves open the possibility of more HMO than just MRV. This is also the reason I ran an extra line CAT-5 to every tv-phone outlet in my new house. I much prefer being able to use the current setup and be able to MRV with 100 base-t...

--Ron

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Old 12-16-2004, 10:58 AM   #272 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dan Collins
I don't know how many people here remember the days before ethernet ran on twisted pair, but the old coaxial ethernet was a simple buss network that ran on RG-57 with BNC connectors and T-connectors at each computer (aka thin ethernet - as opposed to thick ethernet which used external transceivers and "vampire" taps). Looks like everything old is new again.


Oh lord...I remember... Finding terminators for the T-connectors...I think I'm going to be ill...
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Old 12-16-2004, 11:07 AM   #273 (Print)
ebonovic
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Or god forbid you need to add a new unit to the chain, you had to inform eveyone on the "backside" of the chain they where going down for a minute or so.

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Old 12-16-2004, 11:09 AM   #274 (Print)
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My first Ethernet card had an AIU connector on it. What a piece of whooey that was.

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Old 12-16-2004, 11:11 AM   #275 (Print)
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Or you cheesed off somebody upstream and they disconnected the downstream cable. (or they were just idiots and didn't know the consequences)

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Old 12-16-2004, 11:13 AM   #276 (Print)
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[OT]I'm staring at one right now at work. IBM 800 system, in all it's green screened glory. I work for a local municipality, and it's the main source of property owner information as well all accounting and payroll functions for the entire Township. [/OT]
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Old 12-16-2004, 11:16 AM   #277 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by DTV TiVo Dealer
quote:Originally posted by DTV TiVo Dealer
You can stack multiple satellites.

-Robert



I can not point you to any diagram or single product that shows you how to stack multiple satellite as none exists that I know of. Here's how it works:

Using a older 18x24 dish or the GainMaster 36" dish, stack the 101, then use a Sat C kit, for the 110 satellite (from a DIRECWAY upgrade kit) with the 119 LNB and stack them. Then de-stack the 101 (to get 2 coaxes with the H/V polarization) and de-stack the stacked 110/119 so you get a total of 4 coaxes and connect them to a 5x8 switch and your done. Works with all DIRECTV IRD's and even DVR's that are narrow band receivers.

Before I started ValueElectronics.com I was a senior RF systems engineer in the TV Broadcast industry for many years.

-Robert

I'm sure he was intending the use of a single coaxial cable, not two.

What you describe is available commercially from Sonora -- the TSAT242; you can get it from 9thTee (and it's something you should consider carrying ).

http://www.9thtee.com/dssstuff.htm
http://www.9thtee.com/SonoraTSAT242.pdf
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Old 12-16-2004, 11:18 AM   #278 (Print)
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Another question would be is DirecTV/TiVo planning to make available a thin client that provides for just playing back recorded material from other DVRs in the home, both HD and SD?
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Old 12-16-2004, 11:19 AM   #279 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by amgqmp1
Oh lord...I remember... Finding terminators for the T-connectors...I think I'm going to be ill...

Somewhere I've got a bag of 'em if you need any.
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Old 12-16-2004, 11:30 AM   #280 (Print)
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There are products like this now. It wouldn't be like the old daisy chain.

http://www.coaxsys.com/assets/product_brief_TVnet.pdf
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Old 12-16-2004, 11:31 AM   #281 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by dswallow
Another question would be is DirecTV/TiVo planning to make available a thin client that provides for just playing back recorded material from other DVRs in the home, both HD and SD?
The question is how much cheaper could they make such a device than a basic DirecTiVo? You'd still need the MPEG decoder, the AV output, the communications interface, etc. At $49 for a DirecTiVo, you might as well put one at each TV. Granted, an all wireless solution would be nice - take a TV onto the deck and watch playback from a TiVo, but I'm just not sure how they make such an item commercially viable given the existing pricing structure.

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Old 12-16-2004, 11:34 AM   #282 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dan Collins
The question is how much cheaper could they make such a device than a basic DirecTiVo? You'd still need the MPEG decoder, the AV output, the communications interface, etc. At $49 for a DirecTiVo, you might as well put one at each TV. Granted, an all wireless solution would be nice - take a TV onto the deck and watch playback from a TiVo, but I'm just not sure how they make such an item commercially viable given the existing pricing structure.

At minimum a SD DirecTV DVR which had the power to decode HD recorded material (or even additionally view the HD channels from DirecTV) and downconvert it for the SD display would be nice. I suppose that just combining it functionally with the DirecTV DVR would provide the monthly revenue stream in the form of the mirroring fee to justify it's existence.
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Old 12-16-2004, 11:37 AM   #283 (Print)
Dan Collins
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Quote:
Originally posted by kbcrowe
There are products like this now. It wouldn't be like the old daisy chain.

http://www.coaxsys.com/assets/product_brief_TVnet.pdf
Actually, this is almost exactly like the original IBM PC-Net product (the predecessor of Token Ring). They used RG-59 cable with F connectors attached to splitter-like hubs. Each cable connected directly to the respective PC. You could even interlink the hubs to support upto 255 PCs. The only difference is data rate - PC-Net ran at 1 Mbps (plenty fast when the PCs were 8/16 bit units only running at 4.77 Mhz).

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Old 12-16-2004, 11:40 AM   #284 (Print)
Dan Collins
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Quote:
Originally posted by dswallow
At minimum a SD DirecTV DVR which had the power to decode HD recorded material (or even additionally view the HD channels from DirecTV) and downconvert it for the SD display would be nice. I suppose that just combining it functionally with the DirecTV DVR would provide the monthly revenue stream in the form of the mirroring fee to justify it's existence.
Other than the ability to downconvert HD to SD, you're descriping a Series 2 DirecTiVo with MRV activated. Hmmmm....the HD TiVo can downconvert, perhaps it could do the conversion and then send the downconverted data to the SD DirecTiVo, in which case, you'd have everything you need.

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Old 12-16-2004, 11:46 AM   #285 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dan Collins
It depends on who you talk to....my sense is that the operations, technical support and marketing people all want to stick with TiVo. The business folks are concerned about TiVo's long term viability, and see NDS as a better option since it is in house.

Why don't they just have NDS buy TiVo and then they will accomplish 2 things: 1) It will now all be in-house and 2) NDS will have a viable product without the R&D.
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Old 12-16-2004, 11:47 AM   #286 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dan Collins
Other than the ability to downconvert HD to SD, you're descriping a Series 2 DirecTiVo with MRV activated. Hmmmm....the HD TiVo can downconvert, perhaps it could do the conversion and then send the downconverted data to the SD DirecTiVo, in which case, you'd have everything you need.

Umm, no MPEG encoder; and even if it did, overhead of MPEG encoding and there being only one.
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Old 12-16-2004, 11:47 AM   #287 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dan Collins
Other than the ability to downconvert HD to SD, you're descriping a Series 2 DirecTiVo with MRV activated. Hmmmm....the HD TiVo can downconvert, perhaps it could do the conversion and then send the downconverted data to the SD DirecTiVo, in which case, you'd have everything you need.


Actually, I wondered about this too but someone else pointed out that, AFAIK, the downconversion is d->a. You would need to have another a->d conversion to ship the downconverted signal to another DirecTiVo. I could be wrong and there is a d->d converter that converts to 480I internally and then does a d->a to ship this out the s-video connection in which case, the downconversion could take place at the HDTiVo before it is shipped out to the SD TiVo.

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Old 12-16-2004, 11:56 AM   #288 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rkkeller
For many like me with only 1 DirecTiVo what will HMO and MVR do for us ? This forum is mostly hardcore Tivo addicts that want it all but I would guess the majority of DirecTV households would only have 1 DirecTiVo. What in it for us ?


Rich


I also only have 1 DirecTivo (for now), but I've been following this thread because while I've been debating whether to upgrade my hard drive or add another DirecTivo. Eventually, I will probably do both but for now if MRV would actually happen in a couple months, I would add the second DirecTivo so I would have 4 tuners to record. With the deals now, you can get a DirecTivo for $49 (40 GB) or $99 (80 GB), I'm still leaning that direction.

Also, the other HMO options like viewing pictures from a computer or scheduling recordings over the internet would also be cool to have. So that's what I think is in it for us....
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Old 12-16-2004, 12:00 PM   #289 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by rvaniwaa
Actually, I wondered about this too but someone else pointed out that, AFAIK, the downconversion is d->a....
Hmmmm.....I suppose that's possible, but it's actually easier to convert, say, a 1080i datastream to a 480i datatstream and then decode the MPEG than it is to convert a HD analog component signal to an NTSC composite or S-video signal. The first just requires software and CPU time, the second requires dedicated hardware. Of course, if the CPU is already near 100% utilization, and the dedicated hardware is cheaper than the required CPU upgrade....

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Old 12-16-2004, 12:00 PM   #290 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dan Collins
FWIW, according to one of my sources, if and when DirecTV supports the MRV features (and he said he could not comment on a time frame) it will work with EITHER standard multiswitches and ethernet adapters (wired or wireless) OR this new systems which would connect the USB port to the coax and operate the network over the RG-6, using the hub built into this new hybrid multswitch. Effectively, the coax and multiswitch/hub hybrid implementation simply piggybacks the network onto the satellite cable infrastructure to avoid the need for installing a seperate network where one does not already exist. The only change to the software required was a driver for the USB/coax device.

I don't know how many people here remember the days before ethernet ran on twisted pair, but the old coaxial ethernet was a simple buss network that ran on RG-57 with BNC connectors and T-connectors at each computer (aka thin ethernet - as opposed to thick ethernet which used external transceivers and "vampire" taps). Looks like everything old is new again.


My buds said it has been hinted that using a network would be an option along with the multiswitch but your the first person to actually pretty much say that they will allow networking. Now my buds have said its planned for first half of 2005 but your contact said they have no time frame. Just curious on this.
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Old 12-16-2004, 12:02 PM   #291 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by LonghornXP
...Now my buds have said its planned for first half of 2005 but your contact said they have no time frame. Just curious on this.
I said he could not comment on a time frame - not quite the same thing.

I offered up your time frame and he would neither confirm nor deny.

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Old 12-16-2004, 12:04 PM   #292 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by LeeG
Well I tried this. I called, got put on hold multiple times, got disconnected once, each time having to rattle off my account phone number, etc...Finally got a second level CSR who gave the party line "we have not announced anything like this, and I do not know of any plans to do this in the near future."

I was also told they didn't have an ext 827.

Lee






ask for the tivo specialty group when you get a directv csr.



here is how the call goes down the first time i called


her: thank you for call directv can i your name and phone number

me: i give her my info

her: how can i help you
me i heard about something about the directv is going to add hmo

her: i have never heard of it what is it

me i tell her what hmo is

her: i never heard of that

me: is there a specialty group that deals with tivo

her:she said yes

me:


so she transfer's me

this time i get a man
him: thank you for call extened support can i get your name and phone number
me i give him my info

him: thank you for call extened support how can i help you

me: heard about something about the directv is going to add hmo on tivos

him: yes it will be added in the next 2 months

me: ok

are you going to need a new to buy anything

him: we do not know yet

me: ok thank you for all your help

i hangup

:

Last edited by lee espinoza : 12-16-2004 at 01:59 PM.
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Old 12-16-2004, 12:59 PM   #293 (Print)
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Not that I don't believe you, I just don't have the stomach to sit on the phone with CSRs again, unless I have to. I'll take your word for it - me calling won't make it happen any faster.

I am so psyched...I won't get my hopes up though, perhaps sometime in 05 we'll see it come...

Maybe CES will shed light on this-

Lee

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Old 12-16-2004, 01:08 PM   #294 (Print)
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Assuming we do not know before, 1/6/05, the opening day of CES, I will post what DIRECTV is demonstrating and saying about HMO, MRV and or anything else newsworthy.

-Robert
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Old 12-16-2004, 01:09 PM   #295 (Print)
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thank you dtv tivo dealer
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Old 12-16-2004, 01:57 PM   #296 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by lee espinoza
ask for the tivo specialty group when you get a directv csr.



here is how the call goes down the first time i called


her: thank you for call directv can i your name and phone number

me: i give her my info

her: how can i help you
me i heard about something about the directv is going to add hmo

her: i have never heard of it what is it

me i tell her what hmo is

her: i never heard of that

me: is there a specialty group that deals with tivo

her:she said yes

me:


so she transfer's me

this time i get a man
him: thank you for call extened support can i get your name and phone number
me i give him my info

him: thank you for call extened support who can i help you

me: heard about something about the directv is going to add hmo on tivos

him: yes it will be added in the next 2 months

me: ok

are you going to need a new to buy anything

him: we do not know yet

me: ok thank you for all your help

i hangup

:


I suggest keeping his name and extension.
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Old 12-16-2004, 01:58 PM   #297 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dan Collins
I said he could not comment on a time frame - not quite the same thing.

I offered up your time frame and he would neither confirm nor deny.


I see sorry my mistake.
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Old 12-16-2004, 02:03 PM   #298 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by herdfan
Why don't they just have NDS buy TiVo and then they will accomplish 2 things: 1) It will now all be in-house and 2) NDS will have a viable product without the R&D.


I have no inside knowledge, but I like the theory about there being an internal battle between those that support TiVo and those that support NDS. A decision to do something as significant as purchasing TiVo would be fought tooth and nail by the NDS group/supporters. It looks to me as if the TiVo group is winning the war at the moment.

I wonder if a direct license of the TiVo technology (DirecTV/NDS obtaining copy and full use of the TiVo code base) by DirecTV with an agreement that that DirecTV/NDS would only use this in their Satellite system (and may or may not be allowed to be billed as “TiVo” technology) is more likely???

Basically a split much in the same way that MS and IBM split (over OS/2 and Win NT) and MS and Sybase split (over SQL Server). With each going their separate ways. I can’t see that this would be that good of deal for TiVo, but it might be better than the NDS guys winning out and TiVo getting shut totally out over the long haul.

That is my 2 cents.

Oh, and I think this is the best thread I have read in a VERY long time.

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Old 12-16-2004, 02:36 PM   #299 (Print)
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Combining some interesting thoughts I have seen here, how's this for a business plan:

1) DirecTV buys TiVo

2) Standardize the hardware - ALL tivos should include the standalone MPEG converters, AND the satellite receivers. (Adding an ATSC dual tuner as the prices for ATSC comes down). MPEG and SAT receivers shouldn't be too much - heck they're selling directivos for $49. Make it a $99 or $149 and include both - the cost savings are seen in standardizing the hardware, and volume. Always assume a year long commit for subsidized boxes - not unreasonable.

3) The above will do 2 things: first, it will be less of a deterrent to those who do not want to buy their own hardware for satellite, they can still use the box if they decide to not stay with sat, and those who don't have sat, have an EASY in to get it - they already own the box.

4) DVRs are really starting to become mass market, especially as the cablecos are offering them. Non-tech people know about them. This would allow DirecTV to offer a 'Premium' DVR product. Continue to to charge the subscription fee for those who want to use it as a SA, and roll it into the directv charges - free for sat subs. Imagine an ad - $120 a year for a cableco dvr...I don't think so...Free TiVo with directv. Lets face it, NO ONE makes money on one time box sales - recurring revenue stream (ie SUBSCRIBERS) are what directv ultimately wants. Enhance the directv experience by assuming DVR as a baseline receiver. Directv also lowers the cost of offering tivo for free by not having to pay tivo.

5) Maximize the work TiVo has already done - include features like HMO/MRV standard, and anything tivo is working on for the future becomes prop of D* also. DirecTV can advertise a single install (with their -quite creative- router/mutliswitch) with whole house veiwing, music, pictures, etc. A full whole house digital solution - that cable cannot offer. Eventually everyone will offer this technology. DirecTV can use what tivo has already done TODAY to leap years ahead of others.

6) Profit.

Who knows, but as a Tivo stockholder, I'd love to see some movement, even the rumor of a buyout would be great for the price. And as a directv fan, this would really enhance their offering. Or they could just keep limping along with tivo as is, but please add HMO SOON!!

Lee

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Old 12-16-2004, 02:38 PM   #300 (Print)
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Jumping in feet first....

After following the thread for the last week and taking in all of the information from the sources (Longhorn, Dan, ebonovic, etc) it would seem that a CES announcement is in the offing.

This gives enough time to get the R10's out into customer homes. So on whatever day they make the announcement a code is downloaded from the sat telling the 6.1 boxes to turn on HMO (or whatever subset of features they'll offer). Then we start seeing a roll-out of the updated code to the rest of the S2 DTivos already in place.

Just a theory.

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