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Old 12-15-2004, 04:50 PM   #211 (Print)
dswallow
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Quote:
Originally posted by stevel
The Spaceway dish, last I knew, was huge, ugly, and required a professional install, due to its also being a transmitter. It's not something the typical DirecTV user would be thrilled about.

You're thinking of the DirecWay dish.
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Old 12-15-2004, 04:55 PM   #212 (Print)
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What's all the hubub, bub?

While I will admit that the possibility of D* sanctioned HMO/MRV is intriguing, I am not sure about the discussion as to how it will be implemented. Sure, it may work in theory, but has anyone even seen a routing multiswitch? USB-to-coax adapters exist, but are expensive ($329 for the one I was able to find, can't post a link yet, curse my newness!) Would D* create new or use expensive current technology when common networking soultions are inexpensive and readily available? I can understand the concern over their content being shared, but the reality is that extraction has been around for a long time, and will not likely go anywhere just because of the new software. Extraction is not really a hack for Joe Sixpack, anyway, I think we can all agree.

Unless HMO/MRV can be done over ethernet with the 6.1 software, I think I will have to stick with the tried and true 4.x version. I will have to see something more than rumors and speculation before I get really excited.

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Old 12-15-2004, 05:02 PM   #213 (Print)
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I hope so... I will be one of the unfortunate souls working a booth at the CES.

Quote:
Originally posted by dswallow
Will DirecTV demonstrate this at CES?

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Old 12-15-2004, 05:24 PM   #214 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by LonghornXP
....
Also now I'm saying this as my thought and nobody told me this but I thought of this when I read a few of these posts but what about VOD with Spaceway. If DirecTV were to use some of Spaceway for VOD it would make sense to have something like this in place. ....

I think true VOD could be a very big money maker for DirecTV and as such if you could put in place one system that could kill two or more birds with one stone that you could very well get one or more new revenue streams from and drive down the chances of customers leaving that might be very worthwhile in the long run. ....


Why do you need Video-on-Demand (VOD) when you have a DVR/Tivo? With Wishlists and Season Passes my Tivo grabs the stuff I might like to watch, and I can watch them at my leisure. So it seems to me that I've already got a form of VOD. Frankly I don't really want DirecTV or an advertiser pushing VOD content to me anyway. Am I missing something?

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Old 12-15-2004, 05:27 PM   #215 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by litzdog911
Why do you need Video-on-Demand (VOD) when you have a DVR/Tivo? With Wishlists and Season Passes my Tivo grabs the stuff I might like to watch, and I can watch them at my leisure. So it seems to me that I've already got a form of VOD. Frankly I don't really want DirecTV or an advertiser pushing VOD content to me anyway. Am I missing something?

I thin the idea has been mentioned that SpaceWay, with its excess bandwidth for DirecTV's needs, could beused to push out material in a VOD-style faster than real time, downloaded on request, and available for viewing perhaps not instantaneously, but shortly thereafter.

The idea only makes sense if there's excess bandwidth available, and from the initial examination, there would be, unless several hundred more HD stations spring up by 2007 that DirecTV needs to carry.
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Old 12-15-2004, 05:29 PM   #216 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by litzdog911
... Am I missing something?


Just a wider selection of movies.

It's like PPV but you can pick from a much wider selection of movies, not just the 4 or 5 and "Christmas Vacation 37"

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Old 12-15-2004, 05:45 PM   #217 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by mphare
Just a wider selection of movies.

It's like PPV but you can pick from a much wider selection of movies, not just the 4 or 5 and "Christmas Vacation 37"


Ohhhh. Hadn't thought of that angle!

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Old 12-15-2004, 06:28 PM   #218 (Print)
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Read through the whole thread and didn't find an answer to this question:

OK, so 3 streams at one time of SD, but what about HD? I have an HDTivo and my roommate has an HDTiVo. What is the capacity of streaming HD between these TiVos?

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Old 12-15-2004, 06:30 PM   #219 (Print)
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I have to echo Doug's thought:

MUST. PREORDER. NOW.

Lee

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Old 12-15-2004, 06:33 PM   #220 (Print)
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I would be happy if I could just make the daily TiVo call over the USB port (only one DVR in the house).
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Old 12-15-2004, 06:35 PM   #221 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by dswallow
Nothing he's said is inconsistent with previously "announced" detailed rumors.
The keyword is "RUMORS"!

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Old 12-15-2004, 06:36 PM   #222 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by StephenT
Read through the whole thread and didn't find an answer to this question:

OK, so 3 streams at one time of SD, but what about HD? I have an HDTivo and my roommate has an HDTiVo. What is the capacity of streaming HD between these TiVos?

Stab in the dark here:
USB 2.0 can do about 400mbs (am I right here?)
worse case its a 10/100 USB NIC so its 100mbs
Coax can handle 1gbs
An uncompressed HD stream is about 19mbs (am I right here?)

You could still easily have 3 HD streams.
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Old 12-15-2004, 07:39 PM   #223 (Print)
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Why not force the HMO stuff onto coax as well? it has the bandwidth, and could be done, easily. (hook your network router or "server" to an ethernet-coax adapter and then to the ms via your nearest wall jack). bingo, no network wiring issues
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Old 12-15-2004, 08:18 PM   #224 (Print)
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Okay, this is really asking for a lot here but...

Any chance that the new multiswitch/dongle combinations might support some type of signal stacking?

I have 3 DTivo's, but only the one in the living room has both tuners hooked up. It was just too cumbersome to run a second coax to the other two. I believe Dish Network has this capability in their DPP44+ multiswitches (which I think are already shipping). It seems that if D* is designing a brand new switch with all these capabilities, stacking and destacking shouldn't be too difficult to implement. It would also save a lot of installation costs as more and more people start owning multiple DTivos.

Just a thought... wishful thinking?
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Old 12-15-2004, 08:52 PM   #225 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by e30mpwrd
One thing I'm missing here (and I'm by no means as technically knowledgeable as most of you posting on this thread), but how could TiVo A decode and output the raw feed from TiVo B without writing it to TiVo A's hard-drive?

Currently, SA's do buffer MRV feeds from another TiVo, right? When you pause or rewind today, I assume the streaming continues, and you just move back on the buffer (as per live TV)?
I'm also not a technical person regarding networking and multi-switches, but I'd be interested in hearing the answers to this as well. Only I'll expand on the original questions ...

From what I gathered, the MRV plan postulated here will allow TiVo A to record two programs, stream a third via USB/RG-6 to TiVo B, and play a fourth (a recording from Now Playing) which is output to the RF/Video-outs ports of TiVo A. To me, this means TiVo A records the two programs without decoding them, streams the unencoded third program to TiVo B, and TiVo A decodes the fourth program so it can be watched on the TV connected to TiVo A.

So what happens on TiVo B? Let's say TiVo B is also recording two programs from Sat 1 and Sat 2. If TiVo B uses MRV to watch TiVo A's streamed program, TiVo B has to decode it. It could presumably decode it "live" without buffering it to the disk, but that would prevent trick-play, wouldn't it? No one would like that, so wouldn't the TiVo A streamed program have to temporarily be recorded to TiVo B to enable trick play? Can a TiVo record three programs to the hard disk[s] at once without?

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Old 12-15-2004, 09:55 PM   #226 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by peterl1365
Any chance that the new multiswitch/dongle combinations might support some type of signal stacking?

The problem with stacking will be that fewer and fewer customers are going to be getting all their programming from the 101 slot. Stacking doesn't work when you throw in additional sat slots.

So I would guess not. Sorry.
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Old 12-15-2004, 10:04 PM   #227 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by drew2k
It could presumably decode it "live" without buffering it to the disk, but that would prevent trick-play, wouldn't it? No one would like that, so wouldn't the TiVo A streamed program have to temporarily be recorded to TiVo B to enable trick play? Can a TiVo record three programs to the hard disk[s] at once without?
The TiVo from which you're controlling trick-play features is simply using the remote TiVo as a storage device; it'll just seek around the recording as if it were doing so on its own hard drive.
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Old 12-15-2004, 10:50 PM   #228 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by dswallow
The TiVo from which you're controlling trick-play features is simply using the remote TiVo as a storage device; it'll just seek around the recording as if it were doing so on its own hard drive.

Instead of having multiple DTivos all talking to each other via a private network run by the multiswitch, why not have a SuperTivo with say 2 HD tuners and 6 SD tuners, plus a couple of OTA as well working as a server. So at the user end, that is the TV, there would be a client box fed by a single coax (or CAT5) which is used as a user interface. The possibilities are endless.

Also I don't think we should see the multiswitch/coax router box as be the only solution that D* will be supporting. It would be a simple(?) way to get a network going but there should also be the option of a standard ethernet router for the control and streaming side plus a multiswitch for distributing the original signals.
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Old 12-15-2004, 10:52 PM   #229 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by dswallow
The TiVo from which you're controlling trick-play features is simply using the remote TiVo as a storage device; it'll just seek around the recording as if it were doing so on its own hard drive.
OK, I think I get it. Not only is the new mutli-switch relaying streamed video, it's also relaying IR key presses back to the streaming TiVo? This makes a little more sense.

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Old 12-15-2004, 10:56 PM   #230 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by drew2k
OK, I think I get it. Not only is the new mutli-switch relaying streamed video, it's also relaying IR key presses back to the streaming TiVo? This makes a little more sense.

I wouldn't think it'll be send keypresses back (though I guess you can thinkof it like that); it'll probably be doing all the work on the TiVo playing back the stream including handling trick play features, and the only thing the remote TiVo knows is what sectors of the file the TiVo playing back wants to get.
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Old 12-15-2004, 11:02 PM   #231 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by dswallow
I wouldn't think it'll be send keypresses back (though I guess you can thinkof it like that); it'll probably be doing all the work on the TiVo playing back the stream including handling trick play features, and the only thing the remote TiVo knows is what sectors of the file the TiVo playing back wants to get.
Yeah, I guess I over-simplified it just a tad.

Thanks for explaining how it could work. Only [1 .. 365] days to wait to see how it will actually be implemented!

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Old 12-15-2004, 11:03 PM   #232 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by drew2k
Yeah, I guess I over-simplified it just a tad.

Thanks for explaining how it could work. Only [1 .. 365] days to wait to see how it will actually be implemented!

[1...364] in 57 minutes.

You left coasters are on 3-hour delay.
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Old 12-15-2004, 11:05 PM   #233 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by GadgetFreak
I think MRV would cause a lot of customers to add additional Tivos to their accounts. The mirroring fee will be the additional revenue.


Actually, I think most people would be replacing existing basic receivers. If that was the case, then there is no additional revenue. And I would think that they subsidize the price of $99 DTivos, and certainly $49 ones, actually losing money on the transaction.
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Old 12-15-2004, 11:08 PM   #234 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mark W
Actually, I think most people would be replacing existing basic receivers. If that was the case, then there is no additional revenue. And I would think that they subsidize the price of $99 DTivos, and certainly $49 ones, actually losing money on the transaction.

Still, it benefits DirecTV in retention benefits since churn drops dramatically among DVR users.
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Old 12-15-2004, 11:08 PM   #235 (Print)
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They'll lose more when current, long-term subscribers start jumping ship when Comcast delivers a full-moxi.

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Old 12-15-2004, 11:10 PM   #236 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mark W
Actually, I think most people would be replacing existing basic receivers. If that was the case, then there is no additional revenue. And I would think that they subsidize the price of $99 DTivos, and certainly $49 ones, actually losing money on the transaction.

Probably true, but they get to lock you up as a sub for another 1-year period. And that makes them money.
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Old 12-15-2004, 11:14 PM   #237 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by mphare
They'll lose more when current, long-term subscribers start jumping ship when Comcast delivers a full-moxi.

Is Moxi shipping their remote viewing boxes anywhere, yet?
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Old 12-15-2004, 11:22 PM   #238 (Print)
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Quote:
OK, I think I get it. Not only is the new mutli-switch relaying streamed video, it's also relaying IR key presses back to the streaming TiVo? This makes a little more sense


Not extactly. I try to give you an example (not perfect but close).

Example one:

Think of the Tivo that is getting streaming video as a download manager program like real download or one of those other ones out there. When you use a download manager program, you can pause the download and then start it up from where it left off. So lets say you were downloading a big file and got half way thru and needed to shut the system down. Once you turn it back on, you can launch the download manager and download the rest of the progam. It doesn't redownload the whole file again, just what you are missing. NOTE, This only works if the website you are downloading this from supports it.

So to tie this to the tivo, once, you pause or unpause, it would re aquire its last location in the file and continue to play. The Switch or router doesn't control the remote functions, it is the tivo software that does. So when you hit pause on the streaming video, the tivo software sends a code back thru the network to the other tivo to pause the stream going to your tivo.

To clarify it further. The switch/router that directv is developing basicly is a private internet for your home. The only things on that intranet are the tivos. Not only is the hardware important but the software on each tivo is equally important.

I may have confused you more but I hope this helps!

Thanks

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Old 12-15-2004, 11:24 PM   #239 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by herdfan
The problem with stacking will be that fewer and fewer customers are going to be getting all their programming from the 101 slot. Stacking doesn't work when you throw in additional sat slots.

So I would guess not. Sorry.


You can stack multiple satellites.

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Old 12-15-2004, 11:31 PM   #240 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by DTV TiVo Dealer
You can stack multiple satellites.

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Point me to such a product. Please.
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