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Old 10-13-2005, 10:16 AM   #151 (Print)
Tburt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin L

I'm not predicting when it will happen, just that it's likely it will. And DirecTV has already changed the behavior or closed unsupported features with updates. Regarding the mountainous amount of calls, they could simply add a recording or option to the phone menu that states "If you are calling about the loss of 30-second skip, be advised that this unsupported feature no longer works and will not be restored."



Having worked at a call center, no one ever seems to listen to these sorts of messages. They will wait and ignore the message to speak with someone, then repeat what they ignored while waiting.

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Old 10-13-2005, 10:20 AM   #152 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tburt
Having worked at a call center, no one ever seems to listen to these sorts of messages. They will wait and ignore the message to speak with someone, then repeat what they ignored while waiting.
Never worked in a call center, but I'm not surprised at what you say.

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Old 10-13-2005, 10:32 AM   #153 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin L
Wow. It would take more than dropping 30-second skip to make me go back to Dish. Have you ever had Dish? I have, and DirecTV is far better. But, that's why they make 31 flavors of ice cream - everybody has a favorite!


Well, just to update my whine quoted in the above message , after posting that little gem, I actually called Dish (yes, I AM a former Dish sub) and got a quote on a 942.

Well, If you don't but for abut $600, you get to "lease", which is a $250 payment up front for the life of the account, or the receiver. Then you get to pay DVR fees PER receiver, plus mirroring fees, alongside programming fees. And yes, if you decide to "lease" the $250 is non-refundable even if you return the box the NEXT DAY.

Then, there's that nasty habit (still to this day) that Dish has of changing their firmware in the boxes every month or so, effectively messing them up.

Now 30-second skip is the most desireable part of my HD Tivo, next to the season passes/wishlists. But Jeez....these people (Dish AND Direct) are making it very, very hard to watch TV! Or at least....very, very expensive.

I think I'll go read a book.
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Old 10-13-2005, 10:40 AM   #154 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by austinsho
Well, just to update my whine quoted in the above message , after posting that little gem, I actually called Dish (yes, I AM a former Dish sub) and got a quote on a 942.

Well, If you don't but for abut $600, you get to "lease", which is a $250 payment up front for the life of the account, or the receiver. Then you get to pay DVR fees PER receiver, plus mirroring fees, alongside programming fees. And yes, if you decide to "lease" the $250 is non-refundable even if you return the box the NEXT DAY.

Then, there's that nasty habit (still to this day) that Dish has of changing their firmware in the boxes every month or so, effectively messing them up.

Now 30-second skip is the most desireable part of my HD Tivo, next to the season passes/wishlists. But Jeez....these people (Dish AND Direct) are making it very, very hard to watch TV! Or at least....very, very expensive.

I think I'll go read a book.
I actually didn't think it was whining. 30-second skip is important to you, and that's fine. Though I don't use it all the time, I don't want to lose it.

Wow, Dish has a lot of rules. Makes the two-year commitment here seem trivial in comparison. I'd hate to think what my bill would be with six DVRs.

So what's the bottom line? If 30-second skip disappears at DirecTV, what are you going to do?

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Old 10-13-2005, 10:44 AM   #155 (Print)
will.r.french
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin L
Never worked in a call center, but I'm not surprised at what you say.

he's referring to the customer not listening to the messages. customer's barely listen to the reps, let alone the prompts / messages.

i would tell you a story but it's long. let's just say i told a customer to call the first number dialed, and press 3 to speak with someone at the correct department. I spoke to him 3 more times before he actually did it and his call was routed off to the correct call center. This was not an infrequent ocurrence.

[edit]actually come to think of it he never did get it right. i had to conference call our own 800 number and do the prompts for him. he never got it right. that's with a real person giving him instructions.[/edit]

Three times, he called and failed to do as a rep instructed. Do you think a recording would do anything to subvert people whom are mad because of the loss of a cool feature? I think not. They'd still call and voice their displeasure, and the reps would still have to listen, nod appreciatively, and explain to the best of their knowledge why this is happening. Having worked in a call center, management hardly ever addresses these issues so really you end up repeating a semi-knowledgable customer's words in the end.

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Old 10-13-2005, 10:52 AM   #156 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmtar
The 30 second skip was a back door code, not an advertised feature. If not having that will make you leave D* that thats pretty sad and I would say go then. D* could drop the DVR all together and I would stay. Im here for the D* service not the DVR. I just need something to record shows then i dont have time to watch them. I can go back to the vcr if I have to.


That was my view until I got to use my first Tivo. That is why it took me so long to take the DVR plunge. I thought the ads for DVRs look okay, they appeared to be just glorified VCRs. Now that I had the chance to see how it can be done, I would never go back to VCR. While I really like D* right now, I am not married to them. Whomever gives me the best picture, DVR, etc (aka best overall service) is who will get my money.

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Old 10-13-2005, 11:03 AM   #157 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by will.r.french
he's referring to the customer not listening to the messages. customer's barely listen to the reps, let alone the prompts / messages.

i would tell you a story but it's long. let's just say i told a customer to call the first number dialed, and press 3 to speak with someone at the correct department. I spoke to him 3 more times before he actually did it and his call was routed off to the correct call center. This was not an infrequent ocurrence.



It is amazing that grown adults cannot follow simple instructions. (left click versus right clicking a mouse button) They will keep doing the same wrong step, over and over. I once had a caller that did not know what building she worked in (her address), her phone #, anything. She kept telling me that she worked in PO Box. Yeah, I was going to send a computer tech to a PO Box address to fix her computer. It was like she was beamed to her desk every morning and did not know how she got there.

So I really expect people to flood D* CSRs with calls regardless of what the message(s) state.

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Old 10-13-2005, 11:06 AM   #158 (Print)
cmtar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tburt
That was my view until I got to use my first Tivo. That is why it took me so long to take the DVR plunge.


I took the plunge a long time ago and still feel the same way. D* has never tried to screw me over, unlike the 3 cable companies here have. Never had a problem with my service, have gotten specials and deals every now, have even been o nthe payroll. Sure you get a jerk CSR or someone who dont know what there talking about, every company has one. They have been loyal to me and I have no reason not to be loyal to them.
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Old 10-13-2005, 11:17 AM   #159 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin L
I actually didn't think it was whining. 30-second skip is important to you, and that's fine. Though I don't use it all the time, I don't want to lose it.

Wow, Dish has a lot of rules. Makes the two-year commitment here seem trivial in comparison. I'd hate to think what my bill would be with six DVRs.

So what's the bottom line? If 30-second skip disappears at DirecTV, what are you going to do?


Oh...and did I forget that Dish has an 18-month committment on top of all that? And in addition you get to pay $5 per month for your local program guide!



Given the fact that I loathe commercials with a purple passion, I'll probably leave Direct and go with Dish if I can tame the 942 at ALL. It does have that nice feature where you can pipe a NTSC signal to a second TV while watching HD on the main set.
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Old 10-13-2005, 11:22 AM   #160 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmtar
Like Kevin said having Directv is more important to me than a DVR. But not saying I dont want one I would be p*ssed if D* dropped them all together. But unlike alot others I watch live tv 99% of the time, the DVR for me is just there to record a show if im not able to watch it, like a vcr. After I watch the show I delete it in most cases. I have 2 things on my DVR right now that have not been deleted. And the dvr is easier and better than a vcr so thats why I pay. Im probably the only one who uses the DVR just as a back up if I cant watch it. I watch live tv, I dont save shows most of the time, transfer to the pc, network,hack,HMO I dont need any of it. I only have D* in one room and a DVR in one room. I do have certain shows I watch on a daily basis but TV is not priority to me. Missing an episode or two will not kill me.
Ahhhh! Now I understand where you’re coming from! We’re on completely different sides of the table in our tv watching.

Having a dependable dvr is more important to me than having Directv. I'm not saying I don't like Directv, but I very seldomly watch live tv. The dvr for me is there to record a show because I'm just not able to watch it live. I could (and use to) use a vcr, but it just became more of a bother than anything else due to blank tape woes, shifting schedules, forgetting to program it, never enough event slots,... My dvr is easier, better and more dependable than a vcr so that’s why I gladly pay. I can't watch live prime-time tv as I can't be in front of a tv during those hours. I save shows a lot of the time to transfer them to my pc via the network (had to hack in hmo-like capabilities) to watch on portable players when I can as well as just to free up space on the dvr.

My semi-nightly viewing use to consist of Letterman, Conan and whatever else I could find at 1 to 3am. Now I get to watch the same programs as everybody else.

But, yes, I really don’t need any of it. I do have certain shows I like to watch, but TV is not priority to me. Missing an episode or two will not kill me. But I don't have to miss them anymore. I don't have to rush home or play the vcr hit-or-miss game either.

That's why a dvr that has real-time interactive features or has been designed from the ground up for "enhancing the live tv experience" does absolutely nothing for me.

The one I use today acts like it was designed with my needs in mind. .... which is why I'm kinda bummed about the change, but I guess I'm not the "market" Directv is looking for anymore.

Which is why having a dependable dvr that's tweaked for my non-prime time viewing habits is more important to me than having Directv.

Without one, I just don't get to watch tv anywhere near as much as I do today.

Remember CrazyFred! They may have taken him, but they'll never take our memories of what he tried to do for us!
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Old 10-13-2005, 11:22 AM   #161 (Print)
tbeckner
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin L
If 30-second skip disappears at DirecTV, what are you going to do?
Simple:

1. Buy used HDVR2's on the open market (even with dead hard drives)
[Reason: Hackable, 30-second skip, MRV, etc]

2. If used HDVR2's are not available, then buy a SA TiVo.
[Reason: Hackable, 30-second skip, etc]

3. If required, buy a different brand of DVR, like ReplayTV.
[Reason: 30-second skip was still listed as a feature]

Funny thing, 30-second skip is listed as a feature for the MOXI/MOTOROLA based cable DVR that my cable company leases. And I noticed that a lot of the DVR like software available for the PC's list 30-second skip as a feature. So it appears that developers believe that 30-second skip is a feature that needs to be included, so why then would DirecTV be so foolish, maybe they believe the broadcasters would love them. Actually, wouldn't be more important that their customers love them.

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Old 10-13-2005, 11:22 AM   #162 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by will.r.french
he's referring to the customer not listening to the messages. customer's barely listen to the reps, let alone the prompts / messages...

...Do you think a recording would do anything to subvert people whom are mad because of the loss of a cool feature? I think not. They'd still call and voice their displeasure, and the reps would still have to listen, nod appreciatively, and explain to the best of their knowledge why this is happening. Having worked in a call center, management hardly ever addresses these issues so really you end up repeating a semi-knowledgable customer's words in the end.
Hi, Will.

I know he was referring to the customer. I was saying I wasn't surprised that people ignore the messages.

I don't think the message will quell the anger. I do think some people will hear the message, find out it's not their machine that's acting up, and hang up at that time. It will still be a headache for the call center.

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Old 10-13-2005, 11:29 AM   #163 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbeckner
Simple:

1. Buy used HDVR2's on the open market (even with dead hard drives)
[Reason: Hackable, 30-second skip, MRV, etc]

2. If used HDVR2's are not available, then buy a SA TiVo.
[Reason: Hackable, 30-second skip, etc]

3. If required, buy a different brand of DVR, like ReplayTV.
[Reason: 30-second skip was still listed as a feature]

Funny thing, 30-second skip is listed as a feature for the MOXI/MOTOROLA based cable DVR that my cable company leases. And I noticed that a lot of the DVR like software available for the PC's list 30-second skip as a feature. So it appears that developers believe that 30-second skip is a feature that needs to be included, so why then would DirecTV be so foolish, maybe they believe the broadcasters would love them. Actually, wouldn't be more important that their customers love them.
Reason 1 would only be good if they didn't purposely disable 30-second skip through a required update. If they didn't, then that's viable as long as you only need SD.

I couldn't do reasons 2 or 3 because I want the dual-tuners and the PQ same as original broadcast, which SAs can't do. But again, everyone values feature differently.

I'm not saying DirecTV is going to do this anytime soon. I do believe the networks will find a way to defeat 30-second and/or require it be removed. Or, the sat/cable companies will be afraid of litigation and remove it. Don't know when, but I believe it will be gone at some time.

You would think what the customers want would be more important, but we've seen that's not the case. Otherwise we'd have all the features of the SA TiVos and 30-second skip would be the default and not a back door code.

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Old 10-13-2005, 12:11 PM   #164 (Print)
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Originally Posted by JWThiers
I didn't realize that Tivo had the rights to computers running linux and mpeg encoder/decoders chips. Although they have some hardware copyrights (configuring the specific components just so) the bulk of their copyrights are for software (Control and interface to use hardware) not hardware. Anyone can throw together a box that has hardware to do this, it is the software that matters most that is what makes the difference between Replay TV, Windows Media Center PC's, etc.

Need proof that hardware doesn't matter, apple recently announce that they were going to moving the computers to intel chips from powerPC chips(I think powerpc I'm a windows geek) do you think that mac look and feel or software behavior will change because of the hardware change, I think not. Why? Because the all that they have to do to make the change is basically recompile the source code to the intel chipset.


Go ahead and make a box that decrypts the D* stream and stores it and see how fast someone shows up at your door to arrest you.
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Old 10-13-2005, 12:37 PM   #165 (Print)
cmtar
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Originally Posted by Kevin L
If 30-second skip disappears at DirecTV, what are you going to do?


FF
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Old 10-13-2005, 12:46 PM   #166 (Print)
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Originally Posted by cmtar
D* could drop the DVR all together and I would stay.
I understand that statement somewhat, but I believe it is SAD that you haven't been able to use the DVR to change your life to breakaway from the insanity of TV.

But, then again some people use the DVR to only pause LIVE TV and do not use it to change their lives. Having had the experience of using the DVR to change my life over the past five and half years, I would never go back to watching LIVE TV, unless they forced me to watch, like in the movie CLOCKWORK ORANGE, where they strapped the person down and taped his eyelids open. I do make one exception to that rule and that is to watch BREAKING LIVE NEWS, but otherwise everything else can be recorded and played back when I have the time and would actually choose to watch the content. Once you realize that level of use, you actually free yourself and are able to HAVE A LIFE. Of course, your mileage will vary.

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Old 10-13-2005, 12:47 PM   #167 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbeckner
...So it appears that developers believe that 30-second skip is a feature that needs to be included, so why then would DirecTV be so foolish...
Answer: FOX-TV

You are getting a DVR from a company that also owns a network that derives ALL of its income from selling airtime to advertisers.

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Old 10-13-2005, 12:49 PM   #168 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tburt
It is amazing that grown adults cannot follow simple instructions. (left click versus right clicking a mouse button) They will keep doing the same wrong step, over and over. I once had a caller that did not know what building she worked in (her address), her phone #, anything. She kept telling me that she worked in PO Box. Yeah, I was going to send a computer tech to a PO Box address to fix her computer. It was like she was beamed to her desk every morning and did not know how she got there.

So I really expect people to flood D* CSRs with calls regardless of what the message(s) state.
Perhaps she had the problem like in clean slate or 50 first dates

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Old 10-13-2005, 12:53 PM   #169 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Collins
Answer: FOX-TV

You are getting a DVR from a company that also owns a network that derives ALL of its income from selling airtime to advertisers.
Makes sense, but what's the reason TiVo decided to make it a back door instead of a supported feature?

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Old 10-13-2005, 12:56 PM   #170 (Print)
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Originally Posted by Kevin L
Reason 1 would only be good if they didn't purposely disable 30-second skip through a required update. If they didn't, then that's viable as long as you only need SD.

I couldn't do reasons 2 or 3 because I want the dual-tuners and the PQ same as original broadcast, which SAs can't do. But again, everyone values feature differently.

I'm not saying DirecTV is going to do this anytime soon. I do believe the networks will find a way to defeat 30-second and/or require it be removed. Or, the sat/cable companies will be afraid of litigation and remove it. Don't know when, but I believe it will be gone at some time.

You would think what the customers want would be more important, but we've seen that's not the case. Otherwise we'd have all the features of the SA TiVos and 30-second skip would be the default and not a back door code.
DTV would have to force the change through the SAT, because none of my boxes are connected to a landline. And they could have to continually force the change down, because I would just rebuild my hard drives, and/or add a hack to disable their hack. Currently all of my DirecTiVos have the standard NO UPGRADE hack installed, but they could possibility bypass it with a NON-STANDARD UPGRADE, but since 30-second skip has been around for many years now and again almost all DVR software or devices contain that capability, except maybe the new DTV DVR, I doubt that they would attempt to remove it on the older units.

And when it comes to the networks, they have more problems coming in the future than the current 30-second skip. I will not go into the details, but if you think the RIAA had problems in the past with P2P, the networks have a 8,000 pound gorilla coming to dinner in the form of FIBER and IPTV. Agreed it will not be here tomorrow, but it is knocking at the front door.

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Old 10-13-2005, 12:57 PM   #171 (Print)
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Originally Posted by Kevin L
Hi, Will.

I know he was referring to the customer. I was saying I wasn't surprised that people ignore the messages.

I don't think the message will quell the anger. I do think some people will hear the message, find out it's not their machine that's acting up, and hang up at that time. It will still be a headache for the call center.

What pisses me off more than anything in a CS call is being on hold and every 20 seconds a recording tells you how important your call is and stay on the line. I prefer they put on some mellow music and leave me be. After hearing the recording 500 times I am furious. And dont haulk the company over and over. I never have that with the secret # I call. No phone tree and no hold Ever! It cracks me up thay answer on the first ring and apologise for the Hold! What hold!



BTW dont ask me for the # If 2.5 million get it it will be all over. Next time you get a super friendly rep ask for a possible direct dial #. Perhaps not to them personaly but most centers have a direct dial no tree #

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Old 10-13-2005, 12:58 PM   #172 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin L
Makes sense, but what's the reason TiVo decided to make it a back door instead of a supported feature?
The reason was FEAR. But then again, almost all DVR software has 30-second skip listed as a feature. TiVo was first, but now is the only one of just a few that DOES NOT LIST IT AS A FEAUTRE.

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Old 10-13-2005, 01:13 PM   #173 (Print)
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Originally Posted by Kanyon71
Go ahead and make a box that decrypts the D* stream and stores it and see how fast someone shows up at your door to arrest you.

I haven't the slightest idea how to do this but i am curious how D* will find out someone is doing this. If you are paying for the service, are they randomly tapping into the sat feed and checking how we use the signal coming into my house. Now if i was not paying for the service and using a hacked card i would understand them coming for me. If i have a way to take directv and put it on my pc D* does not want me to do it. The content providers don't want me to do it but, if i am not rebroadcasting it or sending it to others over the net i doubt if it is illegal.. Kindly tell me what law is broken here. I pay for the stream I use my own hardware to keep the stream. I am not stealing the stream. Remember they don't want us doing it but I doubt if it is against the law. we already have hardware that does it. This would be like saying it is against the law for me to build my own vcr from parts from radio shack and record tv off an antenna. I could be wrong but i would like to see legal precedence. I don"t even think there is anything in the D* contract that specificly forbids this.



Wasnt a law written years ago between the cable companies and vcr users that stated something like this. Any legaly aquired brodcast that comes into my home is mine to do what i want with for my own personal use? Would Directv that I pay for come under the same law as it was with cable and over the air brodcasts. Or has some thing changed to void the previous law.. I generaly dont keep up with entertainment laws. I would think the D* encrypted signal would be considered something different than encyrypted dvd's. especially since it is over the airwaves. Lawyers here please clarify.

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Old 10-13-2005, 01:18 PM   #174 (Print)
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Originally Posted by Gunnyman
/me hugs his two DTivos.
I'll only be getting one of these after they break and I have exhausted all other means of getting another.


Agreed Gunny and to be honest if they can't do better than what I've heard out of this first one so far, when my units do die (I have a spare waiting too) I will switch to Comcast if they do have a Tivo based unit. I'm much more loyal to TIVO at this point than DirecTV....

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Old 10-13-2005, 01:32 PM   #175 (Print)
cmtar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbeckner
I understand that statement somewhat, but I believe it is SAD that you haven't been able to use the DVR to change your life to breakaway from the insanity of TV.

But, then again some people use the DVR to only pause LIVE TV and do not use it to change their lives. Having had the experience of using the DVR to change my life over the past five and half years, I would never go back to watching LIVE TV, unless they forced me to watch, like in the movie CLOCKWORK ORANGE, where they strapped the person down and taped his eyelids open. I do make one exception to that rule and that is to watch BREAKING LIVE NEWS, but otherwise everything else can be recorded and played back when I have the time and would actually choose to watch the content. Once you realize that level of use, you actually free yourself and are able to HAVE A LIFE. Of course, your mileage will vary.


Free myself? HAVE A LIFE??? That from people who have 4 and 5 tivos so they can record more. People who have a UPS so there tivo wont cut out so they wont miss a show? I have a life. But why record something at night when I can just watch it with my family. I have a life thats why I use the Dtivo to record stuff when im not at home.
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Old 10-13-2005, 01:37 PM   #176 (Print)
Kevin L
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Originally Posted by Billy Bob Boy
What pisses me off more than anything in a CS call is being on hold and every 20 seconds a recording tells you how important your call is and stay on the line. I prefer they put on some mellow music and leave me be. After hearing the recording 500 times I am furious.
I hate that, too, and I let the CSR know it (politely). I know it doesn't do any good to voice it to them, but it makes me feel better to let someone at the company know.

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Old 10-13-2005, 01:38 PM   #177 (Print)
Kevin L
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbeckner
The reason was FEAR. But then again, almost all DVR software has 30-second skip listed as a feature. TiVo was first, but now is the only one of just a few that DOES NOT LIST IT AS A FEAUTRE.
That's what I figured. If there is more litigation, I think you'll see more companies removing it, or at least not listing it as a feature.

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Old 10-13-2005, 01:41 PM   #178 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmtar
Free myself? HAVE A LIFE??? That from people who have 4 and 5 tivos so they can record more. People who have a UPS so there tivo wont cut out so they wont miss a show? I have a life. But why record something at night when I can just watch it with my family. I have a life thats why I use the Dtivo to record stuff when im not at home.


So you can skip the commercials.

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Old 10-13-2005, 01:42 PM   #179 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy Bob Boy
I haven't the slightest idea how to do this but i am curious how D* will find out someone is doing this. If you are paying for the service, are they randomly tapping into the sat feed and checking how we use the signal coming into my house. Now if i was not paying for the service and using a hacked card i would understand them coming for me. If i have a way to take directv and put it on my pc D* does not want me to do it. The content providers don't want me to do it but, if i am not rebroadcasting it or sending it to others over the net i doubt if it is illegal.. Kindly tell me what law is broken here. I pay for the stream I use my own hardware to keep the stream. I am not stealing the stream. Remember they don't want us doing it but I doubt if it is against the law. we already have hardware that does it. This would be like saying it is against the law for me to build my own vcr from parts from radio shack and record tv off an antenna. I could be wrong but i would like to see legal precedence. I don"t even think there is anything in the D* contract that specificly forbids this.



Wasnt a law written years ago between the cable companies and vcr users that stated something like this. Any legaly aquired brodcast that comes into my home is mine to do what i want with for my own personal use? Would Directv that I pay for come under the same law as it was with cable and over the air brodcasts. Or has some thing changed to void the previous law.. I generaly dont keep up with entertainment laws. I would think the D* encrypted signal would be considered something different than encyrypted dvd's. especially since it is over the airwaves. Lawyers here please clarify.


No no no you misunderstand what i'm saying. I am not saying you shouldn't be able to record something that the D* receiver sends out (this is what I do with my SA Tivo's). I am saying if you say wanted to come out with a D* Compatiable receiver that was also a DVR you would have to license the rights to do this. I don't mean you as a consumer can't record your fav show on your DVR (PC, Tivo, Replay so on) thats perfectly fine. You just can't build a box the decrypts the D* stream and expect to sell it without a license fee. Sorry if I didn't make that clear. This was merely about the War is coming statement and I only meant that there is no War D* holds all the cards when it comes to their signal and who's allowed to do what with it.
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Old 10-13-2005, 01:45 PM   #180 (Print)
Dan Collins
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin L
Makes sense, but what's the reason TiVo decided to make it a back door instead of a supported feature?

One of TiVo's major investors was NBC.

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