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Old 11-29-2005, 02:04 AM   #1 (Print)
bwhaler
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Apple to Release "Tivo Killer"

Think Secret is reporting that Apple will release a media hub and PVR, "Tivo Killer" in early January.

http://www.thinksecret.com/news/0511macmini2.html

While this is only a rumor, I really hope it is true.

I have been a Tivo customer since the beginning and have sold about 11 Tivos by raving to my friends.

But, I will buy the Apple solution in a heartbeat. (Assuming of course, that it is a typical Apple product.)

I hate to leave the Tivo family, I really do, but the company's sins are too grave.

Tivo's Unforgivable Sins:

1. Their hardware is massively out of date. No HD? No dual tuners? Pathetic.

2. No support for the Mac or Linux. This is moronic of them, and it has nothing to do with supporting the Mac/Linux community (although that would be a nice thing to do.) Microsoft has been gunning for their business for years, and by not supporting the Mac and Linux, they are reinforcing the need to use their competition's solutions.

3. Putting advertisements through-out the user interface

4. Putting advertisements over TV shows. Part of the Tivo brand promise was to skip advertisements and watch TV on our terms. Tivo broke that promise, and sold-out to the major networks and content providers. This is simply unforgivable, and is a complete bait-and-switch.

I know Tivo made these changes to evolve their business model. Ironically, it probably will cost them their business. Sad, but true.
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Old 11-29-2005, 02:22 AM   #2 (Print)
cwerdna
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Note

Quote:
Originally Posted by bwhaler
Tivo's Unforgivable Sins:
1. Their hardware is massively out of date. No HD? No dual tuners? Pathetic.

2. No support for the Mac or Linux. This is moronic of them, and it has nothing to do with supporting the Mac/Linux community (although that would be a nice thing to do.) Microsoft has been gunning for their business for years, and by not supporting the Mac and Linux, they are reinforcing the need to use their competition's solutions.

1. There's the HD DirecTivo. Tivo has had dual tuners for years w/the DirecTivo. The problem w/HD is that there's so many different delivery mechanisms: satellite, OTA, and cable. As far as I know, there's no consumer level/cost PVR or TV card for a PC that can accept high def via component in and encode in real time. There are cards that can accept ATSC (OTA) high def for the PC.

As for the dual tuner case again, as has been pointed out MANY times on this board, for those w/o cable boxes and running in analog cable, it's easy. But for those using DirecTV receivers, Dish or cable boxes, that means more complexity: 2 cable boxes or satellite receivers, 2 IR blasters, more cabling, possibly splitters or multiswitch, being able to assign indepedent remote codes to both boxes/receivers, and possibly more fees for the cable/satellite subscriber. If there's only 1 box, then it means possibly needing to handle 2 mismatched channel lineups.

Releasing their CableCARD Tivo and software for Comcast boxes will be steps towards solving this.

2. They've supported the Mac for awhile, albeit somewhat incompletely for the time being. As for Linux + Mac, what % marketshare do they constitute of the PC market? If you had limited resources, would it make sense to target such a small audience? Software development and testing takes time, people, and money.

Back to "supporting" Linux... err all their boxes run Linux, so that's ~3.5 million active Linux boxes. So, in a sense, they're doing a pretty good job "supporting" it.

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Last edited by cwerdna : 11-29-2005 at 02:29 AM.
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Old 11-29-2005, 02:29 AM   #3 (Print)
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Count me in as intrigued - though I'm not quite ready to leave the TiVo family just yet. After all, even Apple makes mis-steps (and I say this as dude who makes his living editing on Final Cut Pro).

While TiVo maybe behind the curve, they're a cub playing in a den of lions. Let's see what the new year brings us (multi-stream CableCard-equipped Series 3, anyone?)

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Old 11-29-2005, 02:34 AM   #4 (Print)
bwhaler
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1. Yeah, I know. But the nonDirecTivo is their core system. And it is shamefully out of date.

2. "incompletely." That's a nice way of making my point.

I'm not here to bash Tivo as a hater. These are just honest comments from a long-term Tivo customer.

And you're missing the point. If Apple does this right, it'll be curtains for Tivo. For no other reason than they innovate at a pace no other technology company can touch. And over the years, this--along with the cable companies, the new DirectTV box, open source solutions, Microsoft--will spell Tivo's doom. When companies can provide better solutions at lower costs without putting more advertising on your TV and then selling of your data, Tivos business model will be toast.

I hate to say it. I really do. But I think the writing is on the wall.
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Old 11-29-2005, 03:29 AM   #5 (Print)
mick66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bwhaler
Tivo's Unforgivable Sins:

1. Their hardware is massively out of date. No HD? No dual tuners? Pathetic.

2. No support for the Mac or Linux. This is moronic of them, and it has nothing to do with supporting the Mac/Linux community (although that would be a nice thing to do.) Microsoft has been gunning for their business for years, and by not supporting the Mac and Linux, they are reinforcing the need to use their competition's solutions.

3. Putting advertisements through-out the user interface

4. Putting advertisements over TV shows. Part of the Tivo brand promise was to skip advertisements and watch TV on our terms. Tivo broke that promise, and sold-out to the major networks and content providers. This is simply unforgivable, and is a complete bait-and-switch.

I know Tivo made these changes to evolve their business model. Ironically, it probably will cost them their business. Sad, but true.


Thanks. I needed a good laugh!

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Old 11-29-2005, 08:10 AM   #6 (Print)
mec1991
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If Apple does release such a beast, count me in as a buyer but I doubt I would leave TiVo. As least as long as what they promise for 2006 comes to pass, anyway. Get both, have the best of both worlds!

Steve's version, if it does exist, will involve ad revenue. And it will feature DRM as well; it has to in this day and age. So please don't start declaring the fall of TiVo because of a Mac rumour site.

Last edited by mec1991 : 11-29-2005 at 08:11 AM. Reason: spelling
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Old 11-29-2005, 08:21 AM   #7 (Print)
ZeoTiVo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bwhaler
Think Secret is reporting that Apple will release a media hub and PVR, "Tivo Killer" in early January.

http://www.thinksecret.com/news/0511macmini2.html

While this is only a rumor, I really hope it is true.

I have been a Tivo customer since the beginning and have sold about 11 Tivos by raving to my friends.

But, I will buy the Apple solution in a heartbeat. (Assuming of course, that it is a typical Apple product.)

I hate to leave the Tivo family, I really do, but the company's sins are too grave.

Tivo's Unforgivable Sins:
Unforgivable sins - what are you a high priest for Apple
Quote:
1. Their hardware is massively out of date. No HD? No dual tuners? Pathetic.
it has been discussed many times how difficult it is to do dual tuners when you are not accessing the cable signal digitally. HD can not be done at all without digital access. Cable card will finally change that. Cable companies have pushed cable cards back as hard as they could, wonder why? Anyhow Cable cards are coming - check my link for that.
Quote:
2. No support for the Mac or Linux. This is moronic of them, and it has nothing to do with supporting the Mac/Linux community (although that would be a nice thing to do.) Microsoft has been gunning for their business for years, and by not supporting the Mac and Linux, they are reinforcing the need to use their competition's solutions.
why should TiVo be asked to spend resources on supporting Linux - how many users would that really be? Mac support went into an unexpected black hole and TiVo never said why, most likely because they do not want to talk about Apple actions, but they are moving to a more open DRM it seems and TiVoPony has posted here that mac support is back in mid 2006
Quote:
3. Putting advertisements through-out the user interface
Gold Stars on only the main menu? Please you are reaching now and detracts from your stated intent
Quote:
4. Putting advertisements over TV shows. Part of the Tivo brand promise was to skip advertisements and watch TV on our terms. Tivo broke that promise, and sold-out to the major networks and content providers. This is simply unforgivable, and is a complete bait-and-switch.
and now you look like you are trying to say anything to bash TiVo. Might help if you stuck with the truth. Billboard ads only go over the commercial for the same product. One glitch I have heard of that had the ad go over the TV show. How many billboard ads have you actually seen? So no broken promises here.
Quote:
I know Tivo made these changes to evolve their business model. Ironically, it probably will cost them their business. Sad, but true.

ironically you meant to post about a new Apple PVR but instead spent your time bashing TiVo - first Time I ever saw a thread go off topic in the first post

Last edited by ZeoTiVo : 11-29-2005 at 08:28 AM.
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Old 11-29-2005, 08:46 AM   #8 (Print)
mec1991
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeoTiVo
first Time I ever saw a thread go off topic in the first post


ROTFLMAO big time!
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Old 11-29-2005, 08:51 AM   #9 (Print)
MikeMar
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Screw apple, only apple product i ever bought and probably ever will buy was a used ipod shuffle from my girlfriend.

They just rub me the wrong way, not saying that microsoft is much better

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Old 11-29-2005, 08:56 AM   #10 (Print)
Hunter Green
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bwhaler
Part of the Tivo brand promise was to skip advertisements


Nothing like the smell of troll in the morning.

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Old 11-29-2005, 08:57 AM   #11 (Print)
MikeMar
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Wasn't it to skip commercials and not advertisements?

It still skips commercials beautifully

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Old 11-29-2005, 09:01 AM   #12 (Print)
mec1991
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter Green
Nothing like the smell of troll in the morning.


How true; check his other posts.
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Old 11-29-2005, 09:17 AM   #13 (Print)
lajohn27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bwhaler
1. Yeah, I know. But the nonDirecTivo is their core system. And it is shamefully out of date.


Funny point.. considering that the vast majority of TIVO customers are DirecTV subscribers. Something like three to one in fact I think.

Quote:
And you're missing the point. If Apple does this right, it'll be curtains for Tivo. For no other reason than they innovate at a pace no other technology company can touch.


Saturday Night Live had a good sketch about this last weekend. That'll be fantastic, so the Apple PVR I buy in January will be woefully out of date and by what.. August? September? All the cool new features next fall will only be available on their iTV Nano probably.

As for the other PVR solutions - go try one.

The cableco's boxes literally defy the laws of physics by both sucking and blowing at the same time. Microsoft is re-entering the PVR marketing after abandoning their Ultimate TV platform. I *so* love a company that abandons my products..

Quote:
I hate to say it. I really do. But I think the writing is on the wall.


Hey Zeo .. how many times has this been posted here in the last four years? I've lost track. The only way that statement could have been more redundant vis a vis previous postings.. would have been if you had said "i know this has been said before, but this time its different"

I will not worry until a company produces a PVR/DVR that does all the things my TIVO does .. and better. Some of the products you mention do record HD, but the user interface is so horrible and the feature set so crippled as to make the box useless.

Final Note: Didja see the writing on the wall that said .. TIVO will now be available in Taiwan? Wait - let me guess your response.. "Too little too late.."

Sheesh.

J

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Old 11-29-2005, 09:39 AM   #14 (Print)
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Tivo must be one lucky company. For at least 4 years(that I know of), Tivo was supposed to go out of business, yet they are still in business. Hmmm amazing.
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Old 11-29-2005, 09:40 AM   #15 (Print)
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Despite the OP's inflammatory comments, I'm very interested to see what Apple brings to the table. It's also yet to be seen if this rumored device is a competitor to Windows MCE/Xbox or TiVo/DVR or maybe a bit of both. Either way competition is good for us consumers - leads to innovation and keeps prices lower.
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Old 11-29-2005, 09:41 AM   #16 (Print)
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About adverts... No DVR is going to last without some means of built in advertising. Tivo manages to pull it off brilliantly if you ask me. The front screen ads are not in any way, shape or form, intrusive. Its not like they have some 5 second splash screen that pops up before you can get into Now Playing (THAT would be fatal to Tivo).

As for the inserted ads. This is another brilliant advancement in advertising. They are not intrusive as well, since they are overlayed on top of the product they refer to. And if you see something you may be interested in, you can quickly get more information on it. It is an advertiser's dream.

Don't fool yourself into thinking that any mass-marketed DVR will be free of these kinds of advertising. Either we live with the benign methods used by Tivo, or we end up living with some severely restricted system forced upon us by an industry that relies on advertising for its revenue. We push out those little gold stars and we'll see broadcast flag BS force us to watch commercials.

Its better to choose yourself, rather than having the choice made for you.
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Old 11-29-2005, 09:42 AM   #17 (Print)
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They could have an ad-free product, but it would have to be subscription and be like $25 a month or more or something. I'd rather have MORE ads and a lower cost, personally

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Old 11-29-2005, 09:54 AM   #18 (Print)
bwhaler
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter Green
Nothing like the smell of troll in the morning.


Just because you don't like my opinion that doesn't make me a troll.

Everything there was factually correct. If you disagree with my conclusion, that is your prerogative. But then skip the name calling and share why you have come to a different conclusion.

No need for name calling.

Last edited by Dan203 : 11-29-2005 at 11:24 AM.
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Old 11-29-2005, 09:56 AM   #19 (Print)
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But people refutted or proved all your points to be incorrect.

Especially the non-HD and the whole ad's issues.

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Old 11-29-2005, 11:10 AM   #20 (Print)
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I dont like Apple they are to expensive and the **** breaks down...I only purchased an iPod but the only reason was it was during the time it first came out 2nd gen since im on PC but iv regreted getting it... Ill stick to my TiVo this wont even offer the features I want. I hate when big companies think they have to go into everything...FrontRow is a joke if you read winsupersite its like WMC 4 years ago. I think Google and Yahoo! will consider to buy TiVo even more now?
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Old 11-29-2005, 11:12 AM   #21 (Print)
ZeoTiVo
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Big Grin

Quote:
Originally Posted by bwhaler
Screw you.

Just because you don't like my opinion that doesn't make me a troll.

Everything there was factually correct. If you disagree with my conclusion, that is your prerogative. But then skip the name calling and share why you have come to a different conclusion.

No need for name calling.


It was not your opinion that got your thread ruined. It was your own posting of unforgivable sins that were basically off base and definitely not factually correct. You have posted the same FUD in most of your posts adn it has been refuted time and again. Might be nice if you tried some new material.

the irony is you posted in another thread about a year ago how Microsoft MCE was going to be the writing on the wall for TiVo.


it is a shame you ruined your own thread, it could have been a good discussion of the mac mini and where the Mac rumor site said it is heading.
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Old 11-29-2005, 11:13 AM   #22 (Print)
TiVoCanada
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every pvr will have ads every single one...that isnt a free product. you think microsoft is getting into this and online search for another reason? no its to sell ads, product and service that get $ from ads is the new buisness, they all wannna be google.
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Old 11-29-2005, 11:45 AM   #23 (Print)
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I'm quite intrigued by the Apple-DVR rumor.

Perhaps someone could start a new topic minus the OP's ranting where it could be discussed rationally.
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Old 11-29-2005, 11:46 AM   #24 (Print)
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This is very exciting. As much as I love my TiVo I will buy this and consider dropping my TiVo in a heartbeat. Apple products rock and I've love to see what they will do.

I'll be in the market for a new Mac next year anyway and wanted to wait for the Intels so this will be perfect timing.

It'll be sad to not use TiVo but I'm sure the Apple product will be just as good if not way better.

At least we know it'll be Mac compatible unlike my TiVo

TiVo had BETTER make some "official" announcement (other than what's in my sig) about Mac support (and something to SHOW too) if they want to stop Mac fans from fleeing once this new product is out.
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Old 11-29-2005, 11:49 AM   #25 (Print)
dgh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bwhaler
the company's sins are too grave... Tivo's Unforgivable Sins... massively out of date... Pathetic... moronic... broke that promise... sold-out... simply unforgivable ... complete bait-and-switch.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bwhaler
Screw you... No need for name calling.


Thank you for keeping this thread to such high standards.
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Old 11-29-2005, 11:53 AM   #26 (Print)
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If this is true, I would venture to guess that the device will be feature-poor in comparison to Tivo. I would expect the feature set to mature however. The very fact that the box will run OS X, have an iPod dock, and be able to access media over the internet with ease (not to mention access all the iApps) it has the potential to take Tivo behind the woodshed.

The one feature I long for is being able to control one household Tivo from another. It'd be nice if it could also automatically take care of conflicts and reschedule on an available Tivo. if Apple can do that kind of stuff out of the box, I'm sold.
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Old 11-29-2005, 11:59 AM   #27 (Print)
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Sooooo, one niche company is going to drive another niche company out of business?

Oooookkkkkaaayyyy.


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Old 11-29-2005, 12:04 PM   #28 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unix_Beard
The one feature I long for is being able to control one household Tivo from another. It'd be nice if it could also automatically take care of conflicts and reschedule on an available Tivo. if Apple can do that kind of stuff out of the box, I'm sold.


That would be nice.

Like I said in another thread, I have no loyalties to any company. If apple does make a superior DVR, I would migrate to it. Just like if Microsoft made a superior DVR, I would goto it. I have noloyalties when it comes to technology.

reading that article, it does look like the apple DVR has features that I would probably like. My GF got me another Tivo for Christmas(I'm not supposed to know, but my kids spoiled it last night), and if Tivo allowed conflicts to be recorded at another Tivo on the network, that would be nice, that way I wouldn't have to goto the other room to set the recording, it would do it for me.
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Old 11-29-2005, 12:06 PM   #29 (Print)
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(There was another thread on this which seems to have been deleted)...

If only we knew there was someone working at Apple who was an experienced TiVo user...

That would be nice...

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Old 11-29-2005, 12:10 PM   #30 (Print)
lajohn27
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Worth noting that the TIVO beta in another thread in this forum does in fact provide access to net based media (Live365 streams for example) and who knows what else that did NOT leak out of the beta.

I looked at Front Row - and it is a joke. Will FR 2.0 be better.. of course. Will it be a TIVO based on the article that the OP references? Maybe someday down the road.. but not in January of 2006 or 2007.

J

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