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Old 10-20-2003, 10:04 AM   #31 (Print)
phone1
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LOL, I love reading threads from armchair attorneys who got their degrees watching Ally McBeal and the Practice. Why not watch a few episodes of ER and start performing brain surgery on your friends and family?
Quote:
Originally posted by directivoetherne
And you can't be a tech litigator without know that people can sue for anything. A litigator does not even have to "Win" in this case, but instead put pressure on the company to change, do a little email discovery about who knew what when and let the press do the rest.

Good luck finding a "litigator" who will take your frivolous suit on a contingency basis (or are you going to come out of pocket for this yourself?). In a class action suit, fees are based on the judgment amount: no "win" = no "pay."

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Old 10-20-2003, 10:07 AM   #32 (Print)
tbh999
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Someone correct me if I'm wrong (as if I had to say that!). But didn't the USB ports work in version 3.0.0 and were later deactivated in version 3.1.0?

As I remember it the deactivation came in the wake of the RePlay lawsuit and DirecTV worrying about people copying content.

I for one believe that DirecTV is impeding progress, but that a class action lawsuit will accomplish nothing. However, I would probably be more upset if I had two of the new DirecTivos, but my main system is an older DSR-6000 and will never be offered HMO.

I'm just biding my time waiting for HDirecTivo.

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Old 10-20-2003, 10:14 AM   #33 (Print)
lander215
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If this suit goes forward, I'm gonna get that lawyer to represent me in my claim against Dell. My computer came with 6 USB ports (plus two more on the monitor), and I'm only using four of them! Why would Dell advertise all these USB ports when I can't use them?

BTW, my new HDVR2 said it had two USB ports, and you know what? It does. It didn't say what the USB ports were to be used for, just that it had two of them. Now, if we're to believe that we all thought the USB ports were to be used for something, just what is that exactly? A USB modem? camera? PDA connection? printer? etc. ad nauseum with USB devices...get the point?
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Old 10-20-2003, 11:52 AM   #34 (Print)
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Well at least your six Dell USB ports are ACTIVE. You may not have anything in them but you could...

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Old 10-20-2003, 01:37 PM   #35 (Print)
lander215
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What is advertised on the DTiVo's as working with the USB ports that are available? Maybe that's what I'm missing. I see the verbage on the box for the USB ports, but no indication of what they're to be used for.
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Old 10-20-2003, 01:58 PM   #36 (Print)
ebonovic
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<SOAPBOX ON>
If this case actually ever went to court, and actuall won....
Wooooooo this would become a landmark case, that would have to have it's own class in law school.... WHY?....

Look at most electronic devices sold over the last say 15 years, or evey 20.

Take a look at the original Coleco vision game system. It had an expansion port on the side that was advertised. "It can be expandable", it took nearly 3 years before they release the computer add on.

Take a look at the bottom of an original slide loading 8-bit nintendo. (Or maybe it was SNES)... There where expansion ports on it, that never got released in the US, nor where legal here. (Same with the N64).

Almost all of cosumer electronics have "future" expansion and abilities thought of and added if the cost was effective.

This is the same for the two usb ports on the back of the Tivo.
They are they if DirecTV wants to use them for something, for a product they wanted to release. It cost DTV very little to have them in the unit, and keep them turned off but still able to turn them. VS 100% inability to do nothing in the future.

How many times have any of been in a B&M store and heard the sales person say a device could do something, or "will" be able to do something in the future in order to sell a device.
If you where mislead by a sales person when buying a HDVR2, then your gripe is with the place you purchased it. Not with DirecTV.

Sure DirecTV may have a static web page out dated, or with some mis-information. But that his human nature and no website out there will be 100% 100% of the time.

There probably isn't a person in these forums that would not like have the HMO ability available. I have three DTivos, and would be the first to replace my 1st gen DTivos with ones able to do HMO if it was available.

But it is not, and won't be until DirecTV enables it.

Heck I have a cell phone that was advertised with an Infra-Red port on it, but my carrier conviently decided that they where going to disable it. (How many of you have a cell phone that can download ringers, but your carrier has disabled it).

Will we see it? Probably.
When, only time will tell.

IMHO, part of our problem here in the US is our willingness to sue and create legal malarky that leads us to more lawsuits, more cases, limitations. The lack of ownership and it is always someone elese fault mentality is a major pain in the but.

Everyone is afraid to be sued, thus it limits creativity, product advancement, and everything else. The technology is there for HMO, but DirecTV is terrified of being sued by 1) Content Providers; 2) People that say it doesn't work; 3) Someone who said they created the idea and now want 30 million for it....

<SOAPBOX OFF>

Bottom line:
USB Ports: They are there and wired in.
USB Active: Nope
USB Usage: Nothing until the software supports a use.
Is the unit sold, labeled, or documented as a Series 2 TIVO: Nope
The current units are DVRs powered by Tivo, not Tivo with DirecTV support

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Old 10-20-2003, 02:46 PM   #37 (Print)
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The first-generation ReplayTV models had Firewire ports. They were never activated, and I don't know if the company ever promised specific functionality at the time.

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Old 10-20-2003, 03:48 PM   #38 (Print)
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Great post ebonovic.
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Old 10-20-2003, 03:53 PM   #39 (Print)
Dave-D
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Question Logic??

Quote:
Originally posted by Rombaldi:
At the bare minimum, if a customer has NO other use for POTS phone service, then the damages are what ever the customer has to pay to maintain a 'traditional' phone line. Note also that altho the customer CAN not attach the phone line, he will eventually be presented with continual nag screens about pluggin in the phone line. Note also that PPV can not be ordered ON DEMAND without a phone line, causing the customer an additonal $1.50/$5.00 fee PER EVENT purchased using a 'non traditional' phone (ie. Cell Phone). Argument that the PPV can be ordered over the web is irrelvent since not everyone NECESSARLY has Web access (if someone dosen't have a POTS line, then you can't expect them to have a means to dial up the net. Failure of the customer to have SOME form of communication line (POTS or Broadband) vs a Wireless line would place the responsibility back on the customer. Enablement of the USB ports to make the TiVo/Daily call would satisfy this aspect. The requirement in the DTV service agreement that 'all receivers on an account must be connected to the same phone line' could easily be ammended to be 'connected to the same phone line/IP address' since anyone using broadband connections for the Tivo and having multiple uints would in all probablity be connected thru a Router/Switch/NAT that would present the same IP for all units connected behind it.


Longtime lurker, seldom a poster.

If the customer has no POTS line and no broadband to order PPV over the web, then what good is activating the USB ports going to do?
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Old 10-20-2003, 04:08 PM   #40 (Print)
aristoBrat
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Quote:
Originally posted by directivoetherne
Let me refer you to the direct TV site It is www directv dot com under products. It says Directv with TIVO right up front.

Uhhh, DirecTV's website also goes on (read down a bullet point) to clearly say:
Quote:
This incredible technology combines DIRECTV® DVR with Tivo® service with DIRECTV programming to let you easily control and personalize the way you watch TV.


Tivo's website plainly lists 'TiVo service' as: Season Pass recordings, WishList Searches, Smart Recording, and Showcases.

DirecTV's website is even very upfront about the telephone line:
Quote:
To enjoy the full benefits of your DIRECTV DVR with TiVo service, you must always have a land-based phone line connected to your DIRECTV DVR.
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Old 10-20-2003, 06:37 PM   #41 (Print)
cowboys2002
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Cool

Has anyone noted that the original poster did not mention that using the USB ports on the SA Tivo is an OPTION (HMO)? The ports are there, but you must pay additional for the software to take advantage of the USb ports and networking options.

How is this any different from buying a PC loaded with say Office XP, but you desire the features in Office 2003 (note this is not a MS ad)?

Plain and simple, when you READ the owners manual, you had the opportunity to return it, call customer service, etc. I have YET to see any Directv or Tivo advertisments touting the use of the USB ports on the HDVR2. Even though the ports appear on the 2nd generation DirecTv WITH or Powered By Tivo units, their "official" name is not a "series 2".

Flame if you want, waste your time and money on a baseless lawsuit, but the Directivo has ENOUGH feayures for the price, and anything else is just icing on the cake!
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Old 10-20-2003, 06:59 PM   #42 (Print)
BrettStah
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But you can use the USB ports on the Series2 standalone Tivos for ethernet connectivity (for daily calls) without HMO. (I don't agree with the original poster's position, by the way).

The user's guide for my new DSR7000 says that the USB ports and the Window button on the remote are "for future use", by the way.

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Old 10-20-2003, 07:00 PM   #43 (Print)
PixelFreak
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I think the original poster realizes his mistake and has since stopped watching this thread.

If he was looking for a place to vent and have people sympathize, I understand his motivation.

BUT, if his purpose was to really do what he stated (start a lawsuit) - he has clearly been educated since then and has probably given that up (hopefully!)

Vent/frustration - I agree with and see his points, but for sympathy purposes only.
Sue/lawsuit - you've got to be kidding me.

Pixel

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Old 10-20-2003, 07:12 PM   #44 (Print)
tomo_kun
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Should i sue sony for having USB ports AND IEEE1394 i link on the ps2 w/o any functinal products for them untill 8 months LATER? should i sue the people who made Unreal turnoment for the ps2 (not sure who did) for advertiseing use with a usb keyboard on the back of there game when the ps2 came out and no functions? should i sue activision for saying that there WOULD BE INTERNET FUNCTIONS for tony hawk 3 for ps2 even know there was no hardware available, even know preposed? no, because businesses screw up. And DIRECTV never said that the USB ports worked, actually if you read the manual, it says that the USB ports, the serial and the ir port WHERE FOR FUTURE USE! they never said they where active, they never said it was a series 2 tivo. i rest my case, but it will wake up again.

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Old 10-20-2003, 09:37 PM   #45 (Print)
cowboys2002
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The fact that this issue has been discussed Countless times is one thing, to not use the search function to see the HUNDREDS of posts and the closing of the thread is another. Not trying to flame or get flamed. Pay attention to what you are buying people.

When I purchased my 1st Directivo, it had a 2nd antenna input. It was widely KNOWN that the second tuner would be activated in Fall 1999.
Totally different than the USB ports.
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Old 10-21-2003, 01:19 AM   #46 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by directivoetherne
Also keep in mind, it may be that they want people to use local calls to dial in as a method of preventing subscription fraud.
There are actually two kinds of calls the DirecTivo makes: The "daily call" (really more like one call every two days) to Tivo, which is used for updates and such; and the monthly call to DirecTV, which is used to report PPV purchases, and to verify the account, as you suggest. The daily Tivo call can be shunted to Ethernet, but not the monthly DirecTV call. So, enabling Ethernet calls cuts down greatly on the time spent online and number of calls made, without interfering with the verification scheme.
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Old 10-21-2003, 01:23 AM   #47 (Print)
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Re: Logic??

Quote:
Originally posted by Dave-D
Longtime lurker, seldom a poster.

If the customer has no POTS line and no broadband to order PPV over the web, then what good is activating the USB ports going to do?
If a customer has neither POTS nor broadband, then how the heck is he posting here? Don't tell me you typed that on your cell phone!

Anyway, even without Internet access (?!), you can use the Ethernet connection locally, to run (for example) TivoWeb, and more interesting things.
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Old 10-21-2003, 03:39 AM   #48 (Print)
rogo
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I can't imagine being interested in seeing either DirecTV or Tivo sued over this. Tivo can ill-afford this kind of stuff, and DirecTV would merely pass on the cost of any litigation to me -- their customer.
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Old 10-21-2003, 07:20 AM   #49 (Print)
lander215
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It's widely KNOWN that the USB ports on a DirecTiVo series 2 are not functional for anything useful.
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Old 10-21-2003, 07:58 AM   #50 (Print)
cowboys2002
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Wink

As it was mentioned, I believe the original poster has abandoned their position.

Heck, I have had my laptop for over a year and NEVER used the modem, serial, or firewire ports. Matbe I should sue Gateway........JK
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Old 10-21-2003, 08:28 AM   #51 (Print)
dgilbert
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Quote:
Originally posted by BrettStah
The user's guide for my new DSR7000 says that the USB ports and the Window button on the remote are "for future use", by the way.


Finally, some useful information in this thread. I always wondered what that Window button on the remote was for!

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Old 10-22-2003, 07:51 PM   #52 (Print)
mbowles
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As someone who fits the description of a new directv subscriber (just today). I knew when purchasing directivo that the HMO option was not currently supported. I also had a faint understanding that the USB ports were not at least at this point, activated.

I did not however know that the version of Tivo software in these units was only ~3.1. I also did not know that I may never see any of the current or future developed features or versions.

I am compulsive in my research before purchase. I spoke with numerous people (more than 20) from sales to pre-sales techsupport with Directv/Tivo/ExpertSat/etc about the differences between SAT with cable and directivo and none of them made this distinction.

I also asked several questions in Tivocommunity (some of you answered my questions) discussing the same with the same result.

I have been in the computer industry for over 20 years and have seen the same practice of including limited use versions of all kinds of software to sell a computer. But at least I have the option to upgrade the limited use (or scaled down version) of the software to the full blown version if I choose to. In this case I do not.

If I purchase a new computer that is current technology and is advertised to include Microsoft Word I would expect the current version of Word, not Word 95 that cannot print. I would also expect to be able to receive updates in a timely matter.

I think it is the responsiblity of Directv to indicate the Tivo software they use is a version they own, support and maintain; not Tivo. I read that nowhere in the information below pasted from the web site.


**********************************************************
DIRECTV® DVR WITH TIVO®
You'll never watch DIRECTV® programming quite the same way again — it's TV on your schedule, exactly how you want it!

DIRECTV has always been a leader in home entertainment and now with our latest development, the DIRECTV® DVR, you'll get the most from your DIRECTV entertainment experience.


WATCH. CONTROL. ENJOY!
The DIRECTV® DVR helps make the most of your TV viewing experience.

This incredible technology combines DIRECTV® DVR with Tivo® service with DIRECTV programming to let you easily control and personalize the way you watch TV.
********************************************************


Mark
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Old 10-22-2003, 08:03 PM   #53 (Print)
aristoBrat
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Did you notice how they describe it as 'DIRECTV® DVR with Tivo® service'?

IMO, TiVo's website does a good job describing 'TiVo service' as:

Season Pass™ Recordings
Tell TiVo once and it'll automatically record every episode of your favorite series, all season long! It can even skip reruns.

WishList™ Searches
Find and record programs by title, sports team, actor, director, even keyword. Wow!

Smart Recording
Who cares what's on when? TiVo detects line-up changes and adjusts recording times for you

Showcases
Exclusive entertainment plus recording shortcuts from some of the most popular networks on TV
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Old 10-22-2003, 09:06 PM   #54 (Print)
directivoetherne
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Pixel Freak-

It's not as complicated as you are making it:

1) Whether you, or probably anyone who reads these forums knew the USB ports were deactivated before they bought the deviced really doesnt matter. It's whether the general consumer knows. It may be true that 50% or even 70% of the posts here cover this issue 9 ways to sunday but what matters is what the consumer thinks.
2) It's also whether the consumer was promised something either by advertising, directv CSR's or people in retail when they bought the device. Specifically, USB ports, and "Direct TV with Tivo".
3) re: advertising. I saw another add today. It was for the Samsun 4120 (model#?). In their defense it looked like a samsung ad and only had the directv logo.

To "soap box" re: comparisons to previous versions of consumer electronics that had ports that had no use.

While very funnny, here is where the logic skips a beat. In the cases you were comparing to the USB port issue you had a new types of port or piece of hardware that was promised to fit into it at some future point that was proprietary to that company. They would write a lot of articles/ ads about what it would be used for various whatifs that either materialized or didn't in a few years.

In this case, they are advertising 2 USB ports pure and simple. Hell its on the box. The point being USB ports an industry standard-they eiher work to spec or they do not. Everyone who thinks the USB ports work raise their hand.

The dog just won't hunt. This has zero to do with getting money out of DirectTV. It's getting them to do the right thing. And no the idea is not to bankrup DTV (or I guess Murdochs newscorp now assuming the merger goes thru)--its to get them to do something that the petition hasn't. CHANGE
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Old 10-22-2003, 10:06 PM   #55 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by directivoetherne


In this case, they are advertising 2 USB ports pure and simple. Hell its on the box. The point being USB ports an industry standard-they eiher work to spec or they do not. Everyone who thinks the USB ports work raise their hand.



And guess what?? There are 2 USB ports on the unit!!! Amazing!!! Nowhere is there any mention, insinuation, implication or promise that they can be of any current use.

If you assumed there was a use - you were wrong. Nobody at DirecTV nor at TIVO has ever put in writing anywhere that those ports are for anything other than "future use".

Sorry you made an invalid assumption, but you made it and nobody else.

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Old 10-22-2003, 10:13 PM   #56 (Print)
directivoetherne
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If the USB ports don't work then they aren't USB ports. It's a USB port that doesnt support USB

That's like selling a stapler that can't staple. It's really just a paper weight.

If it doesn't walk like a duck, or talk like a duck, it's not a duck.
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Old 10-22-2003, 10:22 PM   #57 (Print)
PixelFreak
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Question Be careful what you start...

Hell, I can't even begin to waste enough space here to actually "correct" directivoetherne's lack of logic or linear reasoning.

I have made no comparisions regarding the USB ports, only pointed out that you have no case. Guess what? Nothing has changed, your logic has not even come close to convincing any of us that you are close to being correct (neither in theory nor legally), as you can read from the myriad of posts by others who agree that you are purely, well, how to put this....
WRONG.

Enough with the animal analogies (duck/walking, dog/hunting). Really sit down, read this post (that you started) from beginning to end, and honestly make another attempt at convincing us that we have been "had." No, really - I await the hilarious results.

TIA,
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Old 10-23-2003, 12:35 AM   #58 (Print)
directivoetherne
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Freak:

WRT comparison of USB ports I was referring to another user who asked about it. Altho if you actually made an actual analogy, constructive observation, or a better yet a solution, I’d be happy to respond to that.

Seems like the best you can do is ad hominem attacks and “Everybody” disagrees with you when if you actually read the posts that’s not true. You’ve never raised an actual intellectual argument which makes me think either 1) you have some financial interest in Directv or an affiliate or 2) you’re 12.

I’d like to hear the solution you think is better? What’s your big idea for actually accomplishing a change?

That said, I think we can agree on two things 1) intelligence people can disagree and we agree to disagree and 2) your name.

Last edited by directivoetherne : 10-23-2003 at 08:24 AM.
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Old 10-23-2003, 01:26 AM   #59 (Print)
Packy
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I'm really sick of how sue-crazy people have become. It's disheartening to know that someone even THOUGHT of making a lawsuit out of this! If you don't like the product don't use it.

The Tivo is based around a reference design... the ports were there already, but they didn't want to activate them. Big deal. I personally would LOVE it if I could connect through wifi instead of the phone line, but I decided to do neither and I can live with clicking "ok" on one message a day to save $35 for not having a phone line. For most people, their DirecTivo doesn't even need to be connected to anything.

I do understand the frustration, but it is NOT the end of the world and it is NOT something that needs to be made into a lawsuit.

I've already wasted enough of my time with this... directivoetherne, like I said I do understand the frustration, but you're not going to get much sympathy here, sorry.

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Old 10-23-2003, 04:43 AM   #60 (Print)
outerlimits
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To directivoetherne:

You can activate your USB ports if you want to crack open your box and hack away. You will be able to add functions such as tivoweb, video extraction, etc but you will have to do the work.

You should put your energy into this because hell will freeze over before Directv updates the software to activate the USB ports. So Chill.
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