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Old 09-06-2004, 11:53 AM   #31 (Print)
cwoody222
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But do they have such contracts?

Seems to me like if the studios don't want this to happen (which they might not) they could squash it easily by just not agreeing to rental / downloading agreements.
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Old 09-06-2004, 12:02 PM   #32 (Print)
ufo4sale
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In order for Netflix to compete in the future they would have to do something like this or else they'll be out of business. I can imagine people buying the TiVo box just for this service and everything else would be extra.

Last edited by ufo4sale : 09-06-2004 at 12:15 PM.
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Old 09-06-2004, 12:24 PM   #33 (Print)
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I think NetFlix pays a flat license fee per movie/disc for the ability to rent out DVDs. Recently a lot of the discs I've been getting seem to be made by NetFlix themselves. It would make sense since they don't need the retail packaging (they don't rent the case or inserts). So I'd guess that their contracts may allow them to rent it over the 'net... or at least some of their contracts do. So, there's no lost revenue to the producers of the content by my guesses
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Old 09-06-2004, 12:47 PM   #34 (Print)
ZeoTiVo
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Quote:
Originally posted by tonyquan
It's a competitor to DirecTV pay-per-view, although it obviously could potentially offer a much larger library than DirecTV. It could depend on if it fits in DirecTV's business model (ie, would they get a cut of the action), and the general question about whether DirecTV will ever allow any of the networking features.

BTW, the TiVo beta questionnaire has been updated with a question that asks "where do you rent movies from", and one of the options is "by mail". guess you know how you want to answer that one if you want to test this feature when it comes out...


DirectTV is in talks with Disney on using its movie downlaod service that Disney has tested in some pilot rollouts. I do not think they will use the netflix/TiVo service for DirectTv as DirectTv would not to have all their offering in one egg basket, so to speak. Disney wants to find partners as Disney has discovered it is not easy of inexpensive to roll out something like this. Disney wants partners to mitigate the cost and risk. Satelite companies are an ideal fit as both sides bring something different to the table
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Old 09-06-2004, 12:56 PM   #35 (Print)
ZeoTiVo
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Quote:
Originally posted by cwoody222
But do they have such contracts?

Seems to me like if the studios don't want this to happen (which they might not) they could squash it easily by just not agreeing to rental / downloading agreements.


the content providers want to do this, know they have to do this. The agreement just signed off on by TiVo on macrovision bit settings for protections realtes directly to this Netflix deal. The content providers want to feel the content is reasonably protected. Once they feel that they will go forward.

I think Netflix and TiVo have been working this closely with content providers and will have all the major parts lined up as they make an official anouncement. I do not think it coincidence that the macrovision agreement with Tivo and this news "leaked" close together.


PS - I have posted in a couple of different threads on a press release from TiVo around the same time as DirectTV broo-haha quoting a VP at TiVo (not a regular on this board) as saying no new equipment will be needed for internet download service.
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Old 09-06-2004, 01:45 PM   #36 (Print)
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The only way this has even a slim chance of success is if the cost is dirt cheap.

Forgetting about transfer limits imposed by providers for the moment, consider the time it will take to download something!

To get a rough idea of how long it would take, use this calulator:

http://www.numion.com/Calculators/Time.html

And what about all the "extras" that viewers get on a DVD; things like out takes, behind the scenes, interviews, etc.?

In my area, there are all kinds of options available for renting DVDs for less than $1 each from Blockbuster, Hollywood Video... and of course there's alway the online rental houses, like Netflix itself!
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Old 09-06-2004, 02:07 PM   #37 (Print)
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Re: Re: DD 5.1 (AC-3)

Quote:
Originally posted by gtrogue
The movie could include DD 5.1 but, again, you're talking about file sizes in the 1.5GB - 2GB range for any type of decent quality.


But TiVos can't output any kind of DD, so 5.1 would be pointless. That's a big thing to give up, IMO.

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Old 09-06-2004, 02:17 PM   #38 (Print)
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I have both Netflix and TiVo. If I could access the Netflix movies through the TiVo, I think I would probably choose that method almost every time. My DVD player is *very* clunky to use for fast-forwarding and rewinding -- I'm constantly itching to use TiVo trickplay features instead, especially instant replay. Being able to do that would be worth the tradeoff of a slightly lowered PQ for nearly all movies that I rent.

I don't think I'd care if it took a long time to DL, either -- I mean now I have to wait a couple of days, and I doubt it'd take *that* long. If it slowed down the regular operations of my TiVo that would be a serious disincentive, though.
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Old 09-06-2004, 02:23 PM   #39 (Print)
cwoody222
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Quote:
Originally posted by ZeoTiVo
the content providers want to do this, know they have to do this. The agreement just signed off on by TiVo on macrovision bit settings for protections realtes directly to this Netflix deal. The content providers want to feel the content is reasonably protected. Once they feel that they will go forward.

I think Netflix and TiVo have been working this closely with content providers and will have all the major parts lined up as they make an official anouncement. I do not think it coincidence that the macrovision agreement with Tivo and this news "leaked" close together.


I agree that the Macrovision agreement was suspiciously timed.

I hope you're right. Although I'm pessimistic that every one of Netflix's content owners agreed... seems too good to be true.

The movie companies don't think they have to do anything. I'd be suprised if there wasn't a few holdout companies. Just look how hard it was for Apple to convince all the majors to do the iTMS.
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Old 09-06-2004, 02:41 PM   #40 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by C_A_Jones
Forgetting about transfer limits imposed by providers for the moment, consider the time it will take to download something!

To get a rough idea of how long it would take, use this calulator:

http://www.numion.com/Calculators/Time.html


My 3Mbps cable connection could download a complete 8.5GB DVD image in about 6.5 hours. A heck of a lot better then the 4 days it takes to turn arround a movie using the US Mail.

Quote:
Originally posted by C_A_Jones
And what about all the "extras" that viewers get on a DVD; things like out takes, behind the scenes, interviews, etc.?


Who's to say NetFlix won't download a complete image of the disk including all the extras? TiVo already has code for a very capable DVD player built into the Pioneer platform. All they would need to do is mount the image as a physical disk and play it back.

Who knows they may even strike a deal where for a few extra dollars they'll let you burn the image directly to a DVD.

Quote:
Originally posted by David Platt
But TiVos can't output any kind of DD, so 5.1 would be pointless. That's a big thing to give up, IMO.


Both the Toshiba and Pioneer units currently on the market can. Also the new DVD-R units being released by Humax and Toshiba over the next couple of months will also be able to. If DD 5.1 audio is important to you then it might be time for you to upgrade to one of those units.

Personally I think this is awesome! Even if they downsample the video a little and send just the movie (i.e. no extras) I think it would be worth the convenience.

Dan

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Old 09-06-2004, 02:42 PM   #41 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by cwoody222
I hope you're right. Although I'm pessimistic that every one of Netflix's content owners agreed... seems too good to be true.

The movie companies don't think they have to do anything. I'd be suprised if there wasn't a few holdout companies. Just look how hard it was for Apple to convince all the majors to do the iTMS.


In the beginning we may see a few studios hold out because they're afraid. But once it takes off I'm sure they'll all jump on board.

Dan

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Old 09-06-2004, 02:47 PM   #42 (Print)
ZeoTiVo
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Quote:
Originally posted by C_A_Jones
The only way this has even a slim chance of success is if the cost is dirt cheap.

Forgetting about transfer limits imposed by providers for the moment, consider the time it will take to download something!

To get a rough idea of how long it would take, use this calulator:

http://www.numion.com/Calculators/Time.html

And what about all the "extras" that viewers get on a DVD; things like out takes, behind the scenes, interviews, etc.?

In my area, there are all kinds of options available for renting DVDs for less than $1 each from Blockbuster, Hollywood Video... and of course there's alway the online rental houses, like Netflix itself!


I bet they can put down an ISO image that would give you full DVD. But even if they did not do taht right away you need to think of all the old shows coming out on DVD. Like Stargate Atlantis ? never watched Stargate SG1 ? drop the show IN ORDER in your NetFLix TiVo queue and watch them show up maybe three at a time.
Sci Fi not your bag - then how about Sex and the City or Sorpranos.

The thing with Netflix is its depth of offerings, and a lot is not the Latest movies Like Lord OF The Rings or Day after Tomorrow that would benefit from component hookup and 5.1 surround sound.

I feel the service will take off well, NetFlix is well versed in all type of video offerings and how to price it for volume.

sign me up for the Beta
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Old 09-06-2004, 02:51 PM   #43 (Print)
AirShark
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Method of distribution?

http://home.businesswire.com/portal...088&newsLang=en

Sounds like Bittorrent with DRM to me...
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Old 09-06-2004, 03:07 PM   #44 (Print)
ZeoTiVo
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Quote:
Originally posted by AirShark
Method of distribution?

http://home.businesswire.com/portal...088&newsLang=en

Sounds like Bittorrent with DRM to me...


something like that but TiVo will use the technology that strangeberry came up with. TiVo will hopefully be careful with the peer to peer stuff though. A lot of broadband does not offer much upload pipe and moving chuncks around could clog up a lot of other functions on a home network.
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Old 09-06-2004, 03:10 PM   #45 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by ZeoTiVo
something like that but TiVo will use the technology that strangeberry came up with. TiVo will hopefully be careful with the peer to peer stuff though. A lot of broadband does not offer much upload pipe and moving chuncks around could clog up a lot of other functions on a home network.


Sounds like a job for enabling QOS on my router!

I only linked that article because it specifically mentioned TiVo and Netflix...
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Old 09-06-2004, 03:41 PM   #46 (Print)
Ned Dorsey
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Quote:
Originally posted by ZeoTiVo
...quoting a VP at TiVo (not a regular on this board) as saying no new equipment will be needed for internet download service.

I wonder if that will mean Series 1 TiVo's could use the service too?

I'm also a Netflix subscriber. As long as pricing is comparable to what I'm paying now - I would sign-up for a new download service that would deliver movies/TV shows to my TiVo ~47 hours faster than I'm getting them now. I would also upgrade to a Series 2 (if required) just to have the Netflix feature.
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Old 09-06-2004, 03:44 PM   #47 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dan203
Both the Toshiba and Pioneer units currently on the market can. Also the new DVD-R units being released by Humax and Toshiba over the next couple of months will also be able to. If DD 5.1 audio is important to you then it might be time for you to upgrade to one of those units.


Nah, I'll keep my DirecTiVos with dual tuners, 4.0, HMO, and DD; thank you very much!

I did forget about the new DVD combo units being capable of DD, though.

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Old 09-06-2004, 04:06 PM   #48 (Print)
ZeoTiVo
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ned Dorsey
I wonder if that will mean Series 1 TiVo's could use the service too?

I'm also a Netflix subscriber. As long as pricing is comparable to what I'm paying now - I would sign-up for a new download service that would deliver movies/TV shows to my TiVo ~47 hours faster than I'm getting them now. I would also upgrade to a Series 2 (if required) just to have the Netflix feature.


Since series 1 does not officially have hookup to ethernet I assume they are not in on the deal. A hack would probably not be effective either as you would need to run the latest OS or at least major parts of it. This would be a major pain to most series 1 owners.

TiVo stated it was putting out these new features to drive new subscriptions, looks like Series 1 owners are part of that drive.
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Old 09-06-2004, 04:39 PM   #49 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by AirShark
Sounds like a job for enabling QOS on my router!

I only linked that article because it specifically mentioned TiVo and Netflix...


yah the line

"Atzio is the first company to offer a legitimate peer-to-peer platform designed for the `Personal' and `Time-shifted' television concepts pioneered by Tivo and Netflix," said Cedric Van Rossum, co-founder of Atzio Technology. "

struck me as odd as well. Wonder what he knows about how Netflix worked with Tivo/Strangeberry on this ? or did he just name the two companies without meaning anything specific about what each did. I think also since he said Atzio was the first to do peer to peer that HOPEFULLY the TiVo/Strangeberry technology does not use it to such a point I have data rolling through my network all the time.
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Old 09-06-2004, 05:22 PM   #50 (Print)
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Wow, this is great news. This means that USB 2.0 and Wireless G are all but imminent. I can't see TivoToGo, and now this being usefull without those two "driver pending" features being added, since the hardware is already in place for most series 2's.
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Old 09-06-2004, 05:49 PM   #51 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by ssstraub
Wow, this is great news. This means that USB 2.0 and Wireless G are all but imminent.


USB 1.1 and 802.11b are both faster then even the highest bandwidth broadband connections, so I don't think the two quite go hand in hand. However I think if TiVo is going to enable USB 2.0 it will be when TiVoToGo is released. If they don't do it at that time I wouldn't expect it at all.

Dan

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Old 09-06-2004, 09:20 PM   #52 (Print)
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Cool. I have been debating whether to renew my Netflix account. Now I'll just wait till this matter is settled then send 'em my money. Thanks for the great news!
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Old 09-06-2004, 09:37 PM   #53 (Print)
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Well, having 2 Series 2 units, and NetFlix, I initially thought this would be cool.

However, potential killers:

a) CNET has reported (a few months ago) that TW Cable-Road Runner, and other broadband ISP's have an "unwritten" download limit. (some actually do tell you what the quota is). In RR case, if you download some arbitrary amount of stuff, they will deactivate your account because you're a hog. (seriously I'm NOT making this up).

b) Since i have 2 Standalone Units, I would have to watch a DVD without DD 5.1 or DTS sound (they do not have anything other than stereo audio outputs)

c) Further, my DVD unit is hooked up to my 55" Mits. widescreen HDTV, and I've got a progressive scan DVD player. I highly doubt that that even if I DID hook up my Tivo to my HDTV (no point in doing so since tivo doesn't have an HD unit unless I want sucky DTV), I'd still have to use the analog video (SD) resolution so the picture would look pretty poor.


Now, IF Tivo is going to come out with some sort of newer model that has Optical or Toslink audio out and 480i/p component video THEN we're talking. Otherwise, even on a "regular" TV, a DVD player is going to far outshine anything the Tivo can output.

Just my thoughts and it would definitely be nice to download the DVD's and watch them on my TV, but I for one, rent DVD's due to better picture quality and sound. Otherwise I'd still be renting VHS.

--Kevin
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Old 09-06-2004, 10:44 PM   #54 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by m_jonis
Now, IF Tivo is going to come out with some sort of newer model that has Optical or Toslink audio out and 480i/p component video THEN we're talking.
FYI -- both the Toshiba and Pioneer DVD Combo units have component video output as well as optical out (and those outputs aren't restricted to only DVD playback either)

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Old 09-06-2004, 10:59 PM   #55 (Print)
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Not unwritten here...

Quote:
Originally posted by m_jonis
Well, having 2 Series 2 units, and NetFlix, I initially thought this would be cool.

However, potential killers:

a) CNET has reported (a few months ago) that TW Cable-Road Runner, and other broadband ISP's have an "unwritten" download limit. (some actually do tell you what the quota is).


For those of us with Cox it is written...

Quote:
Maximum monthly consumption cap 30 gigabytes downstream; 7.5 gigabytes upstream


http://www.cox.com/policy/limitations.asp
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Old 09-06-2004, 11:00 PM   #56 (Print)
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This is awesome if it comes to pass, but I wonder first, will I have to finally get a Series 2 or one of the Pioneer DVD-Rs? Also, how much bandwidth will it use? Hard drive space?

I have a Philips Series 1 with Turbonet and an extra hard drive (only 50 GB total, but that seems good enough for me.) However, I'm noticing there are image quallity problems, lots of stuff just isn't as sharp as live is. And I have it set to use Highest quality.

My setup: Tivo, DirecTV, 5.1 Koss DVD unit, 27" Sony Wega, using composite cables. Yeah, I know S-Video would be better (component even better) But I also use a selector box for my XBox, GameCube and PS2, which are all composite. But thats not problem. If I go direct from DirecTV to the Koss, it looks better.

So it makes me wonder how a movie is going to look. I have 8mbit DSL, so bandwidth isn't an issue for me, (unless this thing is going to do what TiVo does to TV input, watch it all the time...), but I figure they're going to need to compress the stream, maybe using an advanced mpeg4 codec (how about that new H.264 that Apple and DVD Forum is touting?

Mainly I've noticed the quality problems since I "inherited" the Wega from my Dad. Before I was using an older TV, so maybe its just that the Wega is so much crisper anyway that it brings out the flaws in the TiVo video codec?

Is there anything that can be done about that? Would a new TiVo box (either DirecTivo or DVD-R) have better quality? Do the newer boxes have better codecs?

EDIT: I've since tried the DTV direct to the TV again, and upon doing an A/B comparison, I don't really see that much difference. I do see pixelation on both, so its gotta be DTV. My apologies. On that note though, does anyone know if DTV or other sat providers will ever have better codecs?

Last edited by capran : 09-06-2004 at 11:53 PM.
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Old 09-06-2004, 11:23 PM   #57 (Print)
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Movielink

Posted: Sun., May 23, 2004, 8:43pm PT

Movielink, Charter log into Net partnerhship

Pact puts movie service in front of over 1.5 mil users

By BEN FRITZ, Variety

HOLLYWOOD -- Studio-backed video-on-demand service Movielink has signed its first partnership with a cable MSO, offering Internet movie rentals to Charter Communications' high-speed Internet subscribers.
Deal puts a co-branded Movielink offering in front of the more than 1.5 million users of Charter's Net access. It's similar to existing deals Movielink has with telcos SBC and Bell South, as well as a heavily promoted deal with AOL that temporarily offered Movielink pics for 99˘ per rental.
Charter plans to promote its co-branded Movielink service as the online equivalent to its OnDemand video-on-demand offering for digital cable subscribers.

Signing up partners to help promote its service in return for affiliate fees has been a key strategy for Movielink, which has otherwise focused its marketing dollars on efforts to reach college students.
Since launching more than a year ago, Movielink has taken a leading role in the still small online VOD market. Company is currently renting approximately 75,000 pics per month, which translates to less than $4.5 million in revenue per year at its current prices.

Internet VOD market is expected to grow once home networking technology becomes more prevalent, as well as portable devices with Microsoft's forthcoming digital rights management technology that allows rented digital content to be taken off of computers.
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Old 09-06-2004, 11:59 PM   #58 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by AirShark
Method of distribution?

http://home.businesswire.com/portal...088&newsLang=en

Sounds like Bittorrent with DRM to me...


Personally, I think that using my bandwidth to distribute bits to another location is a bad idea. I will not use a service that does that especially since Cablevision will cap my account if I exceed an unspecified amount.

I hope they make the fact that they are using your bandwidth to distribute bits is CLEARLY stated, and not hidden in a license agreement.
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Old 09-07-2004, 04:35 AM   #59 (Print)
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The two biggest issues for me about this are the bandwidth issue and the quality issue.

Right now, with Netflix I turn around movies I get in about 4-5 days, depending on the day I send them back... They come in, I watch them the same day or the next. Once I mail them back it takes 2 or three days to get a movie back. (This weekend, Labor day, was the worst. I timed it wrong and sent my movies back on Friday not even thinking... now I won't get movies back until possibly Wednesday or Thursday.)

So that means 5-6 turnarounds a month, which is 15-18 discs. If the bandwidth is say, 2 gigs per movie that's a minimum of 30 gigs right there. I'm sure Time Warner is going to raise a fuss if that's the amount I'm using every month.

And a 2 gigs per disc, that's going to be noticeably compressed. While it doesn't make a HUGE difference for me, I'm sure those with hi-def TVs will notice the difference. And they're the ones who are most likely to first get on board this service.

The one thing that DOES attract me is the possibility of downloading TV shows to my TiVo. I don't expect TV shows to be as great of a quality as movies visually so I'll accept somewhat of a lesser picture quality there. And Netflix is great about getting all of the DVD TV show releases out there.

If TiVo were a cable like service where I could download current commercial free shows on demand for 30-40 bucks a month I'd jump all over it. I wouldn't have to worry about scheduling or season pass priority or any of that. Just pick a show and go!
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Old 09-07-2004, 05:30 AM   #60 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by gtrogue
Why do you think the quality will be poor? If the movies are encoded using VBR at decent bit rates there's no reason they shouldn't look pretty good. Directv PPV on a DTivo looks pretty darn good. Granted downloading a 1.5GB-2GB movie will take a pretty long time.

My questions are will they be anamorphic and if they are does Tivo have the circuitry necessary to perform the letterbox down conversion? If the Tivo doesn't maybe they will have two different versions and the Tivo will download the right one depending on a "TV type" setting in the software. Similar to the setting on a DTivo- 16:9 or 4:3.

There is no chance in hell that I will pay for a movie that isn't at the very least letterboxed.


I don't think they will be horrible quality however; I'm sure they won't be as good as a DVD. In any case, the fact that you can d-load them and watch them at your leisure is good enough for me.

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