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Old 06-23-2005, 09:51 AM   #151 (Print)
dgh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeoTiVo
likie I said Dad still uses the Betamax to record shows


My 1982 Beta (my third VCR) is still doing fine, though it doesn't get nearly as much use as it used to.
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Old 06-23-2005, 10:15 AM   #152 (Print)
cynthetiq
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some more insight as to some "costs" to help others understand that getting rights to these products aren't free for the distributor either... seems to make the $2.30/episode them giving it away...

from Variety.com
Quote:
Groundbreaking may be too strong a word, but buzz is spreading throughout the industry that TNT has added video-on-demand rights to its purchase of the reruns of "Las Vegas" from NBC Universal.

The VOD window won't kick in until TNT gets access to the "Las Vegas" reruns in fall 2007, but TNT will pony up a healthy license fee of $ 450,000 an episode for the entire "Las Vegas" package, which includes the right to play each original episode in primetime eight days after it runs on NBC.

The repurposing starts this fall, and will continue as long as NBC keeps renewing "Las Vegas" for its primetime schedule. NBC U has guaranteed TNT at least 88 episodes, which would cover original production through the 2006-07 season. TNT confirmed the "Las Vegas" deal but declined to talk about contractual details.

'New, exciting'

"I have never negotiated video-on-demand in any of the dozens of series I've bought over the years for TNT and TBS," said Bob Levi, former president of worldwide programming acquisitions for the Turner Entertainment Group. "This is a brand-new and exciting turn of events for Turner and for the industry."

Until now, the major-studio distributors have shied away from allowing cable networks and cable operators to schedule broadcast-primetime shows on VOD, fearing that these extra plays might diminish the audience for the regularly scheduled runs of original episodes.

But, like all the majors, NBC U is also curious about the dollar potential of VOD, which could funnel additional revenues into the studio's coffers. And "Las Vegas," while one of NBC's solid successes Monday at 9, is not a hit of the magnitude of "CSI" or "Desperate Housewives," so it's easier for the studio to experiment with VOD.

For further upside, there's also the possibility that some VOD users not familiar with "Las Vegas" might discover the show and start watching it both on NBC and on TNT.

Trend setter

Now that NBC U has broken the VOD ice with "Las Vegas," it's almost certain that other studios will have to put VOD on the table when they negotiate their off-network programs with basic-cable networks.

Cable networks will push to get VOD rights because cable operators are insisting that the networks deliver an on-demand service with their regularly scheduled lineup.

The ops are finding through focus groups and other surveys that their customers are drawn to the convenience of watching a show when they want to, not when the network wants them to. Customers are also enamored of the fact that a VOD show is like a prerecorded videocassette: They can pause, rewind and fast-forward the program.

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Old 06-23-2005, 11:37 AM   #153 (Print)
ZeoTiVo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cynthetiq
some more insight as to some "costs" to help others understand that getting rights to these products aren't free for the distributor either... seems to make the $2.30/episode them giving it away...

from Variety.com



sweet - VOD of network shows would let me record them without commercials and burn them right on the TiVo/DVD recorder

doh - darn broadcast flags

it will be interesting to see how people will react - will they pay for the (i presume) commercail free VOD or just catch it OTA with commercials.



and I do think analog "OTA" does have different and less restrictions on recording it than "digital on a payed distribution network" stuff does. I know broadcast flags as were approved by the FCC made that distinction.

digital "OTA" I do not know what is happening in regards to restrictions allowed.
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Old 06-23-2005, 07:11 PM   #154 (Print)
Bigg
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WOW. Even more replies. Good thing I got my split board hooked up, as I am going to need it to type all of this:

Starting off where I left off before:

@ZeoTiVo (continues from last time):
If you don't want the encryption, then get a different solution. BeyondTV is really easy to use, SageTV can hardware encode to DiVX, and MythTV is free and is supposed to be able to not record the commercials, saving $$$ on disks (or allowing you to record more) and being a lot more convienient. They are all unencrypted.

@ZeoTiVo:
It is interesting as well that Sony is now one of the nutty movie studios overprotecting overpriced content, while they were the ones that made fair use legal in the first place in the Betamax decision.

@Stromspace:
You bring up another point. Due to bandwidth and storage limitations, [almost] all of the Movies rips are compressed to 700MB, whereas they should be 1500MB to be DVD quality. As a result, the movie studioes still have a huge advantage over their pirates, as they have high-quality 3GB DVDs. Also, most people don't know how to, or are not going to, burn DVDs or use a media hub or HTPC.

@Stromspace:
Yes, TiVo is doing a good job at not getting sued, as the MPAA approved thier system for DRM. It is so sad that the industry is so messed up that they have to scare and sue everyone instead if making a better, cheaper, and more appealing product like other industries have to.

@ZeoTiVo:
yeah, there is no way to do that. They need to make a better, more appealing product with embedded advertising instead. Then they will be seeding the torrents for it themselves, or they will be pushing others to do it. Even if there was no internet, TiVos and Fakos and PC-DVRs are going to make them do this eventually (other than the fact that TiVo gets its guide data over the internet). And it is true, they do not care if you bring a DVD of a show over to a friends house. How could they even prove anything? How could they even prove I upload stuff from my FTP that I got from a friend's FTP???

@Stormspace:
Interesting point about not counting on syndiaction $$$. Very true, they never know how it will do. Its true, the content shouldn't be edited, but of course they just don't want it to lead to editing commercials.

@dgh:
thats why embedded advertising is the future.

@ZeoTiVo:
Yeah, DVD editing is just that way, other than the fact that they ARE right about the artistic showing, they just don't care about it.

@ZeoTiVo:
Syndication is a big deal on the discovery channel, they show everything 1000x, but not for NBC or ABC or CBS or FOX.

@Stormspace:
They have to care if you watch from the beginning to the end. Thats how they make the $$$, by getting you hooked on the show. With embedded advertising, they will porfit any way. Also, if people regularly watch the show and then they download an ep they missed, the TV companies are still making $$$ by keeping the person hooked on the show and not losing them b/c of missing a show or two.

@ZeoTiVo:
Syndication is not a big factor. They are just doing that as there are a lot of channels, not a lot of shows considering there are 250 channels, and they need something to fill them with all the time. As a syndicated show costs nothing more to produce, if they can make $50 and give the producer $25, then they make money. I know the $$$ are a lot more than that, but it illustrates my point. If they had new shows on at 2 in the morning, they would go broke. Pulling a show off the shelf that they have, and giving the producers of it a % is a way to keep viewership and maximize the revenue.

@Stormspace:
True. That is sorta a banned topic, so the topic we are on right now is a VERY interesting one.
If you archive, you can also timeshift, and if you can timeshift, they are not making $$$ for commercials. So that really doesn't matter. I don't think that would change a lot if you archived on a huge hard drive with bittorrent, other than the fact that your bandwidth useage would be sky-high.

@cynthetiq:
Its good to see that they all get rich not just the producers. At least the actors are not the ones thinking up these crackpot business ideas that do not work, or will not soon.

@cynthetiq:
Reminds me of Tigerdirect and Apple's Tiger. Glad they dropped that one. Reminds me I need to get Tiger

OK, now to the new posts since I last posted. This thread is getting HUGE!!!

@cynthetiq:
That is too expensive. I would expect a boxed set to be no more than $20, the same price as a brand new movie on DVD. They have already made the show and it is paid for. Plopping them on discs and stamping them out and making pretty menus is not terrible expensive. If I was so inclined, I could make ones similar on the computer, I would just not have the higher quality DVDs, as the rips I have are compressed a little bit. They look fine on the compy tho. If they would make them reasonably priced, I would buy them. Until then, I will spend my money elsewhere. Its not that I cannot afford to buy them, I could go out right now and buy all four seasons of the Simpsons, all three Family Guy seasons and all of the South Park seasons that are on DVD. On the other hand, if I want anything other than season 1-4, the ONLY way to get them is torrent. great business model, isn't it? Just don't release them while the season 16 complete sets are already on torrent. Its not that I don't know anything about making a movie. I'd made small projects. It takes work. Look at some of the free, made for the internet shows. They are really good, AND they are more interesting than something I can find on TV, even though they were made for $50 in two weeks by someone who has a real job and a life. I applaud the shows these people put out, and I hope we see hundreds more made-for-internet non-commercials shows.

@Nfuego:
Another relic of the time when cable and satellite didn't exist. There shouldn't be network affiliations. My local CBS, WFSB-SUCKS-TV SUCKS. I couldn't get my CBS station, the out of DMA WCBS-THEYANKEESSUCKWCBSROX-TV on a dish. The federal laws that prevent people from getting thier correct locals are stupid. The affiliates should be forced to all sign blanket waivers. It would all even out in the end. Also, they should get rid of affiliates, and have one of each network for each time zone. Then satellite HD would be a reality. The locals would be independent, and would loop news and weather and sports all the time, with new ones at the traditional four times a day.

@dgh:
umm, no. They need to make a product that is worth its price, and distribute in a fair way.
ya, its true. Its a monopoly. Almost anyways. They charge too much, some people pay it, others use limewire. Like iTMS is great, I use it all the time as it is convenient, but the sad fast is the RIAA is eating a ton of the $$$. It should be a 50/50 split between Apple and the artists. I heard apple doesn't even make any money off of it.

@Stormspace:
OK, if they are that good, and a CD was reasonably priced at $5, people might actually buy it. Combined with the fact if they are a professional, you tour and if you are really that good, you rake in the dough touring. Crappy music not even written by the artist priced at $13 for a CD is going to cause limewire's traffic to go way up.

@Stormspace:
No one has ever been sued for downloading. It is the uploading that they can nag them for. Maybe its just easier to get them for uling. I don't know everything about the slimy sleezeball tactics that RIAA and MPAA use.

@dgh:
Thats not the point. At that time it was mostly technological cost. Now it is licensing and industry money-guzzling thats adding in cost.

@Stormspace:
I wish this could happen with DRM like it did in France. Unfortunately, like anti-muni BB, the MPAA has an unlimited back account and they will branwash and smear as much as they can. They are putting more and more limits on, and we ARE paying through the noses as we speak.

@classicsat:
When they are money-gguzzling the way they are, they are cheating the customer.
I would pay $20 for 20 eps, or MAYBE $50 if they had two seasons and some special features, and if you could get Season 16 of the Simpsons like NOW. Discovery channel is good, they realease DVDs so quick and re-run stuff so many times, it is cimpossible to miss anything.
I'm not going to cheat myself of seeing their content if they have a terrible business model. I will just steal it.
Thats the idea: they have a REAL job, like doing concerts with that music, or some sort of totally unrealated job.
Yeah, they made it good. The way they did a lot of the sound and stuff though... it would have been nothing to cut the budget in half.

@dgh:
the betamax ruling made them listen to customers 1% instead of 0%.

@Stormspace:
yeah, that is the irony. With computers and capture cards, and VCRs having uses that don't include media companies (like copying home videos for grandma) we would still have ways to record TV, they just may not have been as convenient as VCRs once were. (well, OK TiVo is a zillion times better...)

@Stormspace:
There will always be ways to hack this, and there is HTPC hardware that isn't even able to recognize it. I guess it could stop HDTV right in its tracks though.

@dgh:
Interesting way to put it. There was some about the people's rights in there, although a lot of the $$$ in the case were just to make thier own business larger.

@dgh:
probably. If I was the guy I would just get my own, then let her fill up hers and make her deal with it.

@Stormspace:
although this way they would have never notied you. You would have slipped in under the radar.

@ZeoTiVo:
The broadcast flag had better allow me to keep it around as long as I want. I have stuff on TiVo that is almost a year old. If TiVo listens to the broadcast flag, and it gets that bad, then I am switch to a DVR solution that is not able to recognize the flag, like MythTV or SageTV
I don't think torrent will be hurt. The flag will probably only be HDTV/DTV, so cable will still be OK. HDTV is impossile on torrent, as the bandwidth would not work out. Someone will find a way to put the stuff up. If it comes down to camming the video with separate audio with a DLP and a DV camcorder, they will do it.

@dgh:
I can see not a lot has changed. Blockbuster still sells DVD players, playstations and crappy snacks and magazines.

@Stormspace:
Sadly the Betamax was better. At least VHS is now dead, with DVD players, burners and TiVos. Interesting about the public domain. I don't think that is correct though. If it was it would make network shows legal to torrent.

@dgh:
good history. LOL about the allergies.
Beta is now for pros. There is digi-beta format, and chopper 7 in NYC carries a Beta deck for storing the footage, along with tons of studios and stuff, although I think everything is moving towards hard drives, digital and networked.

Jeez. This thread is getting really freakin hi-jacked. Its really interesting though.

@dgh:
WOW. Wish we could still use that one.

I though I was cool when I built a PC 18 months ago or so with a P4 and DDR ram. I guess not.

@ZeoTiVo:
Bring one of the new $200 DVD burners too. They are great for archiving TiVo and old analog material. I have one and it is really cool.
I want a top loading beta. That is the coolest thing ever!

@dgh:
nice. I need to get a beta from ebay just to see how cool it is. My parents have some beta tapes with stuff on them, but I don't think they have a Beta machine.

@cynthetiq:
ummm, not really. They already paid for them on the network, and DVD making is not exactly terribly expensive.

@ZeoTiVo:
If VOD is free, they will take it, even though it kinda stinks. I thought that broadcast flags are only for the premium channels and digital OTA. Not like discovery channel would want them. They probably cost a little to inject into the signal, and people will circumvent them anyways.

WOW, I'm done for now.

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Old 06-23-2005, 07:20 PM   #155 (Print)
FlWingNut
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigg
WOW. A LOT of replies.

@classicsat:
I'm not saying that NO ONE should be selling music. If they want to sell music, they should be able to. HOWEVER, they SHOULD NOT be able to have the government cheating customers by having copyright laws. If they can make a profit on a CD that has no copyright law against it, then they are good at making a product that people will buy. Using force, and SCARING customers who download into buying shows that they have an overpriced/undervalued product, and that they need to make something that will appeal to customers enough so that they will not download/share it.

@Stormspace:
very true. I love the Simpsons. They have season 4 DVDs out, and they are now on Season 16. They are also HIGHLY overpriced at $50/season, which is RIDICULOUS. Maybe $20 with the Season DVDs coming out at the end of the season (like Season 16s coming out this week) and then I would buy them. Until them I will download TV rips or DVD rips.

@gonzotek:
I'm not saying that federal law should make them give away their stuff. If they can make money without a nasty, choice-limiting copyright law, then good for them. Any sport or hobby coasts money. Being a band is no different.

@cynthetiq:
Exactly. The movie and music industries are HARVESTING money out of our packets like a tractor harvests wheat out of a field. The field gets nothing in return. We get very little. They basically are stealing from us, not the other way around.

@ZeoTiVo:
If they can make money, then thats great for them. They make a few extra $$$ on the side of a real job so they can afford a new computer or big screen TV, or more musical gadgets or whatever. There is a site called cdbaby.com. They sell indie CDs and they are all like $5. They are a great site. Unlike the RIAA who STEALS FROM ARTISTS and like kicks them out if they can't sell ten bazillion cds, CDbaby has realistic expecations. CD baby lets them sell one cd a year, if thats what the artist can sell.

LOTR needed to rely on so many sales because they overspent, overspend, and overspent AGAIN. It DOES NOT take that much to make a movie. Now, they have the best cinematography ever, but look at some of the special features on the extended DVDs. It was reidiculous.

More later.


Oh my..where to start. What's your problem with copyright laws? Without them, almost no one would buy music, movies, or books -- why buy when you can get it free? Removal of copyright laws would ensure that the creative output of this country would go dry. Your "choice" just ain't that important. Actually you have a (legal) choice -- buy the CD/see the movie in the theatre (or buy the legal DVD) or keep your money. You don't have the right to steal it by downloading it from an unauthorized web site.

So the Simpsons are "overpriced?" Fine, don't buy it. TIVO it off TV, watch it whenever you like. But, again, you're not allowed to steal it or put it on the internet for others to steal.

Not enforcing copyright law is the same as "making" them give their stuff away.

And who are you to decide the LOTR spent "too much" money? That's irrelevant. It's up to the producers to decide how much they want to spend on a project, and how much they want to sell it for, and when. Because you may not like it doesn't mean you can steal it.
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Old 06-23-2005, 11:41 PM   #156 (Print)
cynthetiq
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Bigg,

I do see how much it costs to move a show from TV to DVD. (I don't know how the movie division performs, but I know it was lackluster compared to other movie houses,hopefully the new leadership will provide better profits) I work for a major media conglomerate. I know what it costs per episode to make, distribute, and air. I know about what adsales and affilliate sales numbers are. I'm very fortunate to have insight to the very industry you are saying is "stealing" from you. It's expensive, it's not cheap. Distribution rights are still needed to get purchased. Home Movies only recently was released on DVD after me and several people including Brendon Small (creator of the series) lobbied the owner of the copyright, Scholastic management (weird that they own Soup2Nuts) to release the DVD after using torrent tracking to prove that there was enough interest and a market for it.

I do respect your opinion that you are willing to say you will steal something because you don't feel that the price is fair. I'd love to see you do the same for USDA Choice steaks, Organic and Free Range food, since it's all over priced anyways....

I'm leaving you with that I agree to disagree, IMO you are just a hair above a troll because you're opinion is not interested in discussion and debate but if you don't like how the model is, you'll just steal it which you've said over and over again.

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Old 06-24-2005, 08:32 AM   #157 (Print)
classicsat
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigg
When they are money-gguzzling the way they are, they are cheating the customer.
I would pay $20 for 20 eps, or MAYBE $50 if they had two seasons and some special features, and if you could get Season 16 of the Simpsons like NOW. Discovery channel is good, they realease DVDs so quick and re-run stuff so many times, it is cimpossible to miss anything.
I'm not going to cheat myself of seeing their content if they have a terrible business model. I will just steal it.
Thats the idea: they have a REAL job, like doing concerts with that music, or some sort of totally unrealated job.
Yeah, they made it good. The way they did a lot of the sound and stuff though... it would have been nothing to cut the budget in half.
WOW, I'm done for now.


They are charging fair market value, The majority of the market that is buying the product belives it is fair.
Most companies have a fiar buisness model that works for most of their suppliers, empolyees, and customers.

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Old 06-24-2005, 08:44 AM   #158 (Print)
ZeoTiVo
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Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 7,704
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigg
WOW. Even more replies. Good thing I got my split board hooked up, as I am going to need it to type all of this:

Starting off where I left off before:

@ZeoTiVo (continues from last time):
If you don't want the encryption, then get a different solution. BeyondTV is really easy to use, SageTV can hardware encode to DiVX, and MythTV is free and is supposed to be able to not record the commercials, saving $$$ on disks (or allowing you to record more) and being a lot more convienient. They are all unencrypted.

@ZeoTiVo:
It is interesting as well that Sony is now one of the nutty movie studios overprotecting overpriced content, while they were the ones that made fair use legal in the first place in the Betamax decision.
I did not say I did not want the encryption - all this is more complex then your simplified "steal this book" approach that did not make it out of the 60's as too unrealistic. I wish that no DRM was needed by anyone but that is wishful 60's thinking as well. Now I would much rather deal with the DRM TiVo employs adn keep the great TiVo interface that works on a consumer electronic appliance than deal with all the issues that come up installing and using SageTV or MythTV on a computer. My whole family needs to be able to just use this tech without more thought than turning on the TV and pciking up a remote takes. This is afterall entertainment to relax by. I do not find the DRM employed by TiVo all that much of a hassle, more of an annoyance.

Also if broadcast flags come along the law is written such that even PC tuner cards need to employ it. Will the opensource have to use it to work with the latest batch of cards (especially HD or cable card capabale tuners taht will come along). No idea on if they can somehow circumvent it - but they would have to to keep DRM away from oipen source and that leaves the software open to litigation and drive the whole thing underground. Like I said this is a complex topic.
Quote:
@ZeoTiVo:
yeah, there is no way to do that. They need to make a better, more appealing product with embedded advertising instead. Then they will be seeding the torrents for it themselves, or they will be pushing others to do it. Even if there was no internet, TiVos and Fakos and PC-DVRs are going to make them do this eventually (other than the fact that TiVo gets its guide data over the internet). And it is true, they do not care if you bring a DVD of a show over to a friends house. How could they even prove anything? How could they even prove I upload stuff from my FTP that I got from a friend's FTP???



yes product placement and commercial overlays will come along to replace 30 second spots or else the commercial breaks will get shorter with more breaks in there. why hit the FF on a 15 sec commercial spot - it will be over before you get passed it anyway.

the MPAA will go after uploaders who are sporting some x hundred of files that make it easy to prove the economic damage a judge needs to see to rule in the MPAAs favor. Plus that will take a lot of major seeds out of play. This is already happening. Then they can seed with the bad stuff - 2 hour movie that justs shows a filesharing is bad commercial over and over. Basically the Napster model adapted for P2P. I think they can take bit torrent and other P2P down to a fringe group who are just to wiley/dedicated to catch but they can live with it as long as the mainstream needs other means to get content.

Quote:
@ZeoTiVo:
Yeah, DVD editing is just that way, other than the fact that they ARE right about the artistic showing, they just don't care about it.

@ZeoTiVo:
Syndication is a big deal on the discovery channel, they show everything 1000x, but not for NBC or ABC or CBS or FOX.

@ZeoTiVo:
Syndication is not a big factor. They are just doing that as there are a lot of channels, not a lot of shows considering there are 250 channels, and they need something to fill them with all the time. As a syndicated show costs nothing more to produce, if they can make $50 and give the producer $25, then they make money. I know the $$$ are a lot more than that, but it illustrates my point. If they had new shows on at 2 in the morning, they would go broke. Pulling a show off the shelf that they have, and giving the producers of it a % is a way to keep viewership and maximize the revenue.

Yes I am all for the directors and actors wanting the show to play as they produced it. It makes a nice cover for limiting editing though. Syndication is a big deal and is paramount in every decision on whether a show gets cancelled or not. Yes they report viewership numbers as they main reason but that just equates to how ell the show will syndicate and what they can charge for syndication rights. Do you really think friends made enough on the first showing to pay each major actor 1,000,000 as they did during the last few seasons. I bet the actual deal was the actors getting their residuals up front instead of later. It was just bragging rights for them.

now reality shows are big with networks because with their low cost then syndication can be taken out of the business model and they make the money up front or by selling reruns on other networks. and that is the business model you propose. Do you really want a lot of shows of the quality of reality shows and forget the syndication or DVD money.

Quote:
@ZeoTiVo:
The broadcast flag had better allow me to keep it around as long as I want. I have stuff on TiVo that is almost a year old. If TiVo listens to the broadcast flag, and it gets that bad, then I am switch to a DVR solution that is not able to recognize the flag, like MythTV or SageTV
I don't think torrent will be hurt. The flag will probably only be HDTV/DTV, so cable will still be OK. HDTV is impossile on torrent, as the bandwidth would not work out. Someone will find a way to put the stuff up. If it comes down to camming the video with separate audio with a DLP and a DV camcorder, they will do it.
uummm, the brioadcast flag is all about limiting archival possibilities while allowing for fair use time shifting (in its theory at least) so kiss those year long storages of digital goodbye. It is important to note here that BFs are about digital content , not OTA analog. It is the providers getting ready for HD and digital content. and as noted above if BFs become a law then the open source stuff will have to deal with them if they record digital content.

Quote:
@ZeoTiVo:
Bring one of the new $200 DVD burners too. They are great for archiving TiVo and old analog material. I have one and it is really cool.
I want a top loading beta. That is the coolest thing ever!
a DVD burner would be lost on him and his VCR systems. I will just show him how to save to VCR and he will be a most happy camper adn be able to still share tapes with his neighbors who mostly still use VCRs as well.

I used to put a model rocket on the top loader and pretend I was getting it ready for lift off

Quote:
@ZeoTiVo:
If VOD is free, they will take it, even though it kinda stinks. I thought that broadcast flags are only for the premium channels and digital OTA. Not like discovery channel would want them. They probably cost a little to inject into the signal, and people will circumvent them anyways.

WOW, I'm done for now.

I can see subscription VOD being a decent segment for all those willing to pay more for commercail free TV. I can not see a pay per VOD working for TV shows.
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Old 06-24-2005, 09:30 AM   #159 (Print)
Bigg
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I see you all are getting back quick, with long replies.

@FlWingNut:
Copyright law stifles innovation. There are tons of old copyrighted works that cannot legally be obtained because they are out of print. If something is out of print, then it should lose its copyright and become part of the public domain.
If the movie or music was good enough, then people would buy it, as they want the best quality porduct. For example, the DiVX rips of movies suck, they are pixellated and the way to get a good copy is to rent or buy it. Very few movies out there are dvd-r and these just guzzle the b/w and HDD space. Next, books are so expensive to make, it would be hard to copy them. I do not hav as much of a problem with books, as the paper and stuff to make them costs a lot and such. There could also be a comprimise, where the people who make it have copyright to exclusive COMMERCIAL distribution, and the people have the rights to non commerical (p2p) distribution. This would be fair to everyone.

Ummmm, those are not whole seasons. I want my whole seasons, and they are out there on torrent. If I had enough HDD space, then I would download the seasons 1-15 torrent that is out there. Sadly it is 35GB, and I do not have this much space.

No its not. Making them give it away is saying that there cannot be commerical distribution. Heck, if bittorrent as it is now was the same, but there was no copyright law, I would buy DVDs still. They have cool special features and better quailty and spanish audio tracks (I speak english know a tiny bit of spanish like to improve upon spanish listening skills).

@cynthetiq: Those costs that you are talking about are rights and other stuff. It does not actually cost much to move the show from TV to DVD, just whoever owns it is guzzling money in the process.
What I am trying to say is that the industry is going to have to change. Whether you or me or anyone else thinks that the laws are right or not, more and more people are downloading movies. They are easier and easier to download. If the industry cannot change their ways, then they will eventually go out of business or produce cheap, crappy movies. People want movies the way they want them, and myself and a lot of others that I know want a fairer way or will steal. When you have a few million or tens of millions doing this, your porfit goes down the drains. I frankly would not be surprised if movie theaters go bye-bye very soon. People can buy and install 100" projection screens with HDTV satellite and HTPCs that software upconvert DVDs to near HDTV. With that said, people also want control of the remote and the ability to have a ton of friends all together, start it when they want and to eat whatever they want. Thus, I think DVD sales will pick up all of the huge losses that the movie theaters are making. I also think downloading will get a lot worse, and that whoever maintains the internet is going to have a problem considering that the 2% who use bittorrent use 35% of the bandwidth.
Beef is a product, not IP (which in itslef is an oxymoron as property is a thing and a movie is not a thing).

@classicsat:
This is changing. As there is more piracy and more forms of entertainment, prices will have to come down.

@ZeoTiVo:
I'm not saying that you should get a PC-DVR, I'm just saying there are alternatives. PC-DVRs are easy to use, they just have to be dedicated so they don't crash.
The broadcast flag will be able to be circumvented. Also, people with cards bought today will have no problem with doing whatever they want. Also, who knows how well the flag will go through an encoder.
They could sue 1000 people a day, and they still would not stop the flow. THere are tons of music downloaders still out there, just diffused onto different networks that are not huge. Bittorrent will not go dead, if it does there is already a new software out there that can hide IPs and encrypt stuff. It is so good, it creates a ton of gooble for the MPAA to look at. You can't prove anything with it. Pirates will stay one step ahead of the MPAA. Also, no one is a big seed in comparison. There are gigabits of bandwidth in bittorrent, and no one has more than a few megabits. It is a huge Puzzle. Take a few pieces out, you still see the big picture. Also, a lot of people are in other countries, so there may be different laws there.
The funny part is that not coincidentally, the highest CD sales and Napster's prime were at the same time. And, by trying to kill torrent, more and more people are hearing about it. I first heard about it in an article about movie priacy and the MPAA. Comcast must hate me! I'm up to 25 gigs this month at least.
Syndication is great for the viewer, and the studio can get a tad richer off it too. Most of TV already IS reality crap.
I don't think MSOs (Dish DirecTV etc.) are going to put them on though. Also, do they go through the analog hole (love that DVD burner)? Also, channels like discovery and other channels have no reason to put them on. They would just cost more money to use flags.
The open source stuff is too small to bother suing. Thats why they will never put it in. They should in thoery have DRM now, but they don't.
Sweet. Top loader I must get.
The dvd burner is so easy to use. It is just like a VCR with a record button and all. And, it can finalize the disc so that a regular DVD player can play it. More people have DVD players these days than VCRs, and of course they can play in a computer or laptop.
If it was cheap enough, pay per VOD would work if you could not have a regular subscription, but they would price it to high. I can't wait to see TV over IP!

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Old 06-24-2005, 09:51 AM   #160 (Print)
ZeoTiVo
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the point I was vaugely making is that many many people will not go to the trouble of looking for free and all the hassle of it if they make it an underground kind of thing. I suspect you will be trading in free for decades to come as you are motivated to it.

my dad , who was an early adapter on Beta VCRs barely cares now about DVDs adn DVRs - he just wants the setup he knows and understands. Old dog, new tricks and all that. he is not alone. Whne Napster was going strong many just computer literate people I know were all over it and asking me how to burn CDs they could paly on regular CD players and so forth. they really did not get the whole MP3/digital file as a new way to do things. They just saw EASY and free made it better. Once Napster went up I told them about P2P and gnutella and so on. But they did not like it, it was harder and not as easy to grasp hold of.
many of them went back to buying CDs and are probably now happily diownloading songs from Apple onto Ipods because it is EASY.

so all that has to happen is the P2P gets driven underground some, people read about suits and get afraid it will be them next for their one little download of a show. FUD works on the mainstream. The open source will go underground. If broadcast flags become law as then it will be worthwhile to make sure nothing EASY is out tehre to get around it. If they pass the law I will go right to CompUSA and get an HD tuner though but many will not think of that or get why I would do that.

it is all about a marketplace that makes the copyright have enough value so investors keep seeing a return on money and blockbuster movies keep getting made and some TV shows will get large budgets or just stay alive due to long term revenue streams. Dry all that up and there is no marketplace to sustain a real business plan and we will get reality shows, made for DVD movies and poorly produced garage music. already too much of that as it is.
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Old 06-24-2005, 09:57 AM   #161 (Print)
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Bigg, are you prepared to defend yourself in a court of law if the copyright holders of the programs you are stealing find you and attempt to prosecute you? Maybe you'll win, (although most likely you won't, as you yourself openly admit it is theft). However, just the cost of defense will likely be considerably more than the cost of the content itself.
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Old 06-24-2005, 10:00 AM   #162 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigg
@FlWingNut:
Copyright law stifles innovation. There are tons of old copyrighted works that cannot legally be obtained because they are out of print. If something is out of print, then it should lose its copyright and become part of the public domain.


I agree with this statement however for the publisher to keep a title in print would be exceedingly easy to do and you still wouldn't have access due to limited print runs on obscure outlets, so I don't think that would solve anything.

What IS annoying is that the DMCA protects public domain movies put onto DVD.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigg
@cynthetiq: Those costs that you are talking about are rights and other stuff. It does not actually cost much to move the show from TV to DVD, just whoever owns it is guzzling money in the process.


There are other conciderations with regard to cost to manufacture. The current system requires music composers to be compensated again just as they were in the original airing. Not certain about the actors, but cynthetiq prolly has that answer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigg
What I am trying to say is that the industry is going to have to change. Whether you or me or anyone else thinks that the laws are right or not, more and more people are downloading movies.


The movie industry really doesn't need to change. I like it the way it is. I would like however the opportunity to buy the movie as I leave the theatre. It would kill return attendance, but imagine if you will a special run DVD set that you could buy
as you left the theatre in a gift shop or sorts. I'd prolly pay half again what DVD's go for to get a movie I really liked the same day I watched it especially if it was a longer running feature.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigg
When you have a few million or tens of millions doing this, your porfit goes down the drains.


One of the arguments of the P2P crowd is that losses can't be quantified as many people doijng the downloading would never have made the purchase to begin with, so I disagree with your statement. I believe the downloaders are free loading anyway and likely would not pay for the content if it was available.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigg
I frankly would not be surprised if movie theaters go bye-bye very soon. People can buy and install 100" projection screens with HDTV satellite and HTPCs that software upconvert DVDs to near HDTV.


As long as movies are made there will be theatres as the people making them will want to maximize profits by releasing the content twice, or three times.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigg
@ZeoTiVo:
I'm not saying that you should get a PC-DVR, I'm just saying there are alternatives. PC-DVRs are easy to use, they just have to be dedicated so they don't crash.


Have you ever had to use MythTV? Installation is such a nightmare that I can't imagine anyone other than a die hard Linux fan wanting to bother with it. Even the all in one distributions like knopp-myth have such cryptic configuration settings that it would stump most users, and that's just the software. Myth also requires a very powerful PC and the capture card costs as much as a TiVo. No, PC-DVR's if they are going anywhere will be solely a MS thing until these linux alternatives wake up and make hardware more broadly supported and the software easy to configure. If it were just the UI I'd agree with you, but unfortunately there is a lot more to consider.

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Old 06-24-2005, 10:09 AM   #163 (Print)
ZeoTiVo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormspace
The movie industry really doesn't need to change. I like it the way it is. I would like however the opportunity to buy the movie as I leave the theatre. It would kill return attendance, but imagine if you will a special run DVD set that you could buy
as you left the theatre in a gift shop or sorts. I'd prolly pay half again what DVD's go for to get a movie I really liked the same day I watched it especially if it was a longer running feature.


many major movies are on bit torrent before they open but that DVD idea would just ensure that every movie was on bit torrent on opening day. Like you say - not sure how it would affect attendance though. I choose my go to theater now by - would like to see that on a big movie screen - the kids want to really see it

not so much a regular expereince any more to hit the theater for our family
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Old 06-24-2005, 10:30 AM   #164 (Print)
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Not sure if it's been mentioned but things like the Simpsons DVD contain custom content that wasn't aired. Things like commentaries by the writers, directors, voice actors, deleted scenes, storyboards. These are the things that I'm willing to pay a 'premium' (if you consider $31.98 at Amazon.COM after discounts a 'premium' price - I don't). That plus there are 25 episodes in the upcoming set. So, that's approx. 500 minutes of broadcast content (at a minimum of 20 minutes per episode, I know that they're longer than that). I don't see Fox producing two sets of DVDs, one set that's just the shows for a really low price and another with the extras for the current 'high' price.

I know it's been said before... if you don't like the product or price don't buy it. I buy a slew of anime on DVD where the price is way above the curve since it's a more niche market. Me not liking the price doesn't give me the right to download it. So, I pick & choose what I can afford & like.
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Old 06-24-2005, 03:09 PM   #165 (Print)
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here is an interesting tidbit on music companies getting into P2P delivery systems.
http://www.cnn.com/2005/TECH/intern...l.ap/index.html
Quote:
Originally Posted by from article
Some 330 million tracks were purchased online last year from online stores such as Apple Computer Inc.'s iTunes. But around 5 billion were downloaded from free file-sharing networks, he said.

Meanwhile, recording companies have sued 11,700 computer users for file-swapping. Of those, 2,500 cases have been settled, typically for about $3,000 each.

The Supreme Court is considering whether companies behind unrestricted file-sharing services -- Grokster and Morpheus -- should be liable for copyright infringement. The case's outcome could speed the way for licensed peer-to-peer services.

Even so, it remains to be seen whether those industry-endorsed alternatives can attract people who now tap open file-swapping networks using such programs as eDonkey, BitTorrent and Kazaa.

"When it comes down to it, why is somebody going to pay for something they can get for free?" said Mac Padilla, 21, a student who lives in Los Angeles.

The industry may know the answer at least in part as early as next month, when Peer Impact, one of the licensed file-swapping services, is slated to launch.

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Old 06-24-2005, 04:25 PM   #166 (Print)
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It is true that if things are hard to use, people may not use them. The problem is, more and more younger people are getting used to getting free content online. As they age and more younger people start learning how to download content. Eventually, this could put pressure on the industry. Also, any dumb fool can wait until the DVD is out and not watch the overpriced movie in the theater. Next, I know someone who is a dvd bootlegger. He sells dvds of stuff he downloaded for $5. He does a few here and there to make a few extra bucks. A bunch of people doing this would alow the others to get ootlegged DVDs.
As far as your dad, it is surprising that he wants to keep obsolete technology, as it sounds like he had some pretty up-to-date and expensive stuff back when Beta was king.

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Old 06-24-2005, 04:41 PM   #167 (Print)
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OOPS! Didn't notice there was another page LOL.
@gonzotek:
sure. They haven't sued anyone yet. Just the big torrent sites. I'm more likely to die in a car accident tommorrow, so thats that.

@stormspace:
they would have an interesting time proving you stole the content on a DVD that is public domain. The menus and stuff would be copyrighted definitely.
The DVD thing is a good idea, but they would be ripped to torrent, so the industry would never do that. besides, i'd just pay a friend a couple bucks to get on of a movie they were going to.
Right now that really is true. When it moves to the mainstream there may actually be $$$ losses.
Not if people don't go to them. I heard DVD slaes are going up just as much as movie theater sales are going down. The trend will continue, especaially as people use computers (laptops) and cool TVs and stuff to watch DVDs.
Knopp-myth looks really easy. I say it on systm (systm.org) and it looked real easy. Just plop in some card and network settings and youre all set. The PC could be built for under $1000. Also, there are hard encoding cards and computer and cards are bought just for Myth usually. Sage and beyond are a lot easier, although unstable as they run on windoze.

@VinceA:
The Simpsons are still too expensive. I don't really care about the commentary stuff for a TV show. Anime and stuff like that, especially stuff that is only available in one part of the world is ALL OVER bittorrent.

@ZeoTiVo:
Interesting. I think that is in part to the fact that on a p2p net it is a free-for all to download 50 or 100 songs at a time, in part due to the fact there is little value in music, and the files are small and easy to download/share. I read somewhere the the average music FAN buys 6 CDs a year. The rest of thier iPod's capacity has to be coming from SOMEWHERE. Movies may be a bit different, as there is a perceived value for them and they are too freakin big to download a lot.

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Old 06-24-2005, 05:04 PM   #168 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigg
Next, I know someone who is a dvd bootlegger. He sells dvds of stuff he downloaded for $5. He does a few here and there to make a few extra bucks. A bunch of people doing this would alow the others to get ootlegged DVDs.


With this post, you make my point. Your buddy the bootlegger is the reason we have copyright laws, and why the movie and music industries are fighting so hard for copy protection. Your buddy is cheating the artists, producers and others out of their rightfully earned money so he can "make a few bucks." Without guys like him, we wouldn't have all this copy protection crap -- he, and others like him, are the problem. It's no different than the guy who breaks into your house, swipes your wife's jewelry and sells a few pieces "here and there to make a few bucks."

You obviously have no respect for copyright law and attach no value to intellectual property. Have you ever created something? Written a song? Maybe have written a book, a newspaper column or magazine article? Taken photos? And then had any of those things plagiarized, stolen or otherwise used without permission or compensation? If you had, perhaps you wouldn't be so nonchalant about stealing the works of others, or selling them "to make a few bucks."
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Old 06-24-2005, 08:21 PM   #169 (Print)
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@Bigg
Incorrect.

@Bigg
I don't see how this applies.

@Bigg
Wrong.

@Bigg
Could you clarify your pronoun use?

@Bigg
No.

Last edited by dgh : 06-24-2005 at 08:30 PM.
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Old 06-25-2005, 04:33 AM   #170 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigg
@VinceA:
The Simpsons are still too expensive. I don't really care about the commentary stuff for a TV show. Anime and stuff like that, especially stuff that is only available in one part of the world is ALL OVER bittorrent.

I know about BitTorrent. I use it to get fansubs of unlicensed anime all the time. I also buy it when it comes out on DVD - it's sort of a unwritten code.

So, $32 is too much for 500 minutes of content? Truely, you are just looking for justification for theft now. What would be the 'right' cost for 22 episodes? At $1.45 per episode (I'm assigning no value to the extras since you don't consider them of value) that's not bad at all.
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Old 06-25-2005, 12:18 PM   #171 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigg
OOPS! Didn't notice there was another page LOL.
@gonzotek:
sure. They haven't sued anyone yet. Just the big torrent sites. I'm more likely to die in a car accident tommorrow, so thats that.

Wrong. They are suing the users as well.
Google search for mpaa lawsuits in april
http://itvibe.com/news/3460/
Quote:
9,900 cases have been brought to date in the US. This brings the total number of lawsuits to have been launched internationally to 11,552.
They're suing anyone who comes under their radar where they think they have a reasonable case against them. And they've publically stated they intend to continue and even expand their efforts.
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Old 06-25-2005, 08:47 PM   #172 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigg
I see you all are getting back quick, with long replies.

@FlWingNut:
Copyright law stifles innovation. There are tons of old copyrighted works that cannot legally be obtained because they are out of print. If something is out of print, then it should lose its copyright and become part of the public domain.

Should, perhaps, but should does not entitle you to treat it as if it has, until as much as it has.
Quote:
If the movie or music was good enough, then people would buy it, as they want the best quality porduct. For example, the DiVX rips of movies suck, they are pixellated and the way to get a good copy is to rent or buy it. Very few movies out there are dvd-r and these just guzzle the b/w and HDD space. Next, books are so expensive to make, it would be hard to copy them. I do not hav as much of a problem with books, as the paper and stuff to make them costs a lot and such.

Masd printing, no, small run, on demand printing, I don't think it needs to cost a whole lot. Laser printing is fast and cheap enough nowadays.

Quote:
There could also be a comprimise, where the people who make it have copyright to exclusive COMMERCIAL distribution, and the people have the rights to non commerical (p2p) distribution. This would be fair to everyone.

If you are implying that the P2P product be free, then nobody would opt for the commercial distribution.
Quote:
@cynthetiq: Those costs that you are talking about are rights and other stuff. It does not actually cost much to move the show from TV to DVD, just whoever owns it is guzzling money in the process.

Which are part of most artistic and intellectual propert, heck most anything you buy has costs assiciated with "rights" of some sort, either copyright or patent rights.
Quote:
What I am trying to say is that the industry is going to have to change. Whether you or me or anyone else thinks that the laws are right or not, more and more people are downloading movies. They are easier and easier to download. If the industry cannot change their ways, then they will eventually go out of business or produce cheap, crappy movies.

You aren't seeing it, they would end up doing that becasue P2P theft is a problem, not because they won't adapt.
Quote:
People want movies the way they want them, and myself and a lot of others that I know want a fairer way or will steal. When you have a few million or tens of millions doing this, your porfit goes down the drains. I frankly would not be surprised if movie theaters go bye-bye very soon. People can buy and install 100" projection screens with HDTV satellite and HTPCs that software upconvert DVDs to near HDTV.

Not in the near future, people will allways go "out" to the movies.
Quote:

Beef is a product, not IP (which in itslef is an oxymoron as property is a thing and a movie is not a thing).


No, the term IP was coined so that it could be protected against theft and other forms of misuse, as if it were a phyiscal product, specifically becuase it is not a physical product.
Quote:
@classicsat:
This is changing. As there is more piracy and more forms of entertainment, prices will have to come down.

Only if the governent looks into it and determinse the proudict is over priced. Otherwise I'd doubt rampant theft will lower the price of a product, not the price go down if theft is cured.
Quote:

Sweet. Top loader I must get.

I also have a top loader Beta, and som front loaders.
Silly though, it is the my top loader which has an IR remote, and the
front loaders which are wired, or have no remote facility (I have two very similar Sanyos, the top loader, I believe is a Magnasonic).
Quote:

The dvd burner is so easy to use. It is just like a VCR with a record button and all. And, it can finalize the disc so that a regular DVD player can play it. More people have DVD players these days than VCRs, and of course they can play in a computer or laptop.
If it was cheap enough, pay per VOD would work if you could not have a regular subscription, but they would price it to high. I can't wait to see TV over IP!

Right now, the IPTV I know of is little different than cable or satellite service.

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Old 07-02-2005, 08:29 AM   #173 (Print)
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@FlWingNut:
I'm not doubting that he is cheating the artists, and I myself do not support commercial re-distribution of copyrighted content in an unlicenced fashion, as there is REAL revenue here that IS being lost. I was just saying that the piracy problem hollywwod has created is not limited to the few that use torrent. He is spreading it to dozens of other people, and I am sure that there are many others like him that burn a few here and there and are not huge pirates selling thousands of DVDs on the streets of NYC.
Absolutely I have created "intellectual property" and I assume that anything I make is in the public domain for anyone to use as they please when they please. I like to create knowledge and works of art for people to share and enjoy not stick in a box and lock up in a copyright law. If I want to protect something, I will not give it to anyone else.

@dgh:
be a little more specific. This is a semi-serious conversation, not a joke.

@VinceA:
yes. I have already been over this about 10 times, but it is. And I really want the latest ones, not season 3 or 4. If I want them, it is off to torrent, they don't even sell them in the stores. Not to mention they are already paid for when they were on TV 10 or 15 years ago, SO they really don't need to make more money. They need to make more episodes to make more money.

@gonzotek:
Wow. I didn't know they were actually suing users. Time to get a fully encrypted non user identifyable system going. It shows how dumb and desperate they are with thier broken business model.

@Classicsat:
If it isn't legally available and I steal it there is no lost revenue.
Yes, there could be a free p2p product, and tons of people would still buy it on DVD. They could also go for a paid system where the stuff is really cheap and there is no DRM. Quantity of sales, not quality. If there was a good way to get movies legally and at a decent price (under $2.50/movie) on the net, people would probably pirate less. Same with releasing the DVD when the movie comes out in theaters, not waiting months to fully release it. Releasing to the theaters first is INVITING pirates to pirate the movie.
The industry has to adapt to the internet. If they do not offer an internet download service, the pirates will do it for them and they will lost potential profit. If they do not adapt and release movies immediately to DVD and the internet and cut their own costs to make a good profit, they may go out of business.
Then why are box office sales dropping like a fishing weight while DVD sales are going up? Becasue people want a cheaper way to watch movies whenever and wehrever they want. You can watch DVDs on the computer, on the TV, home theater, by the pool, in teh car.
Yes, but eventually it will become very similar if anyone other than verizon gets around to FTTH.

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Old 07-02-2005, 09:25 AM   #174 (Print)
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@bigg:
I asked you first. I have no idea what your last "semi-serious"* reply meant.

* (for extremely small values of semi, I assume)
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Old 07-02-2005, 05:04 PM   #175 (Print)
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I don't care who asked who. The point is that you didn't specify anything, just putting argumentative words without an explaination.

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Old 07-02-2005, 05:16 PM   #176 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigg
@FlWingNut:
I'm not doubting that he is cheating the artists, and I myself do not support commercial re-distribution of copyrighted content in an unlicenced fashion, as there is REAL revenue here that IS being lost. I was just saying that the piracy problem hollywwod has created
how has Hollywood created this problem of your friend breaking the law for some spare cash among people he knows ?? SO Hollywood is supposed to sell each DVD for 5$ to meet his price while his only overhead is the burner and DVD-R and the time to burn them?
He is breaking the law for profit which is simply wrong.
Quote:
Absolutely I have created "intellectual property" and I assume that anything I make is in the public domain for anyone to use as they please when they please. I like to create knowledge and works of art for people to share and enjoy not stick in a box and lock up in a copyright law. If I want to protect something, I will not give it to anyone else.
that is fine for you to create art and not lock it up in a box. Indeed copyright law Allows you the copyright holder to give away copyrighted material and let others copy it all over the place. it is your call to enforce the copyright or not. Would you be so benificent if it had cost you even 100,000 dollars to make the art ?

Quote:
@VinceA:
yes. I have already been over this about 10 times, but it is. And I really want the latest ones, not season 3 or 4. If I want them, it is off to torrent, they don't even sell them in the stores. Not to mention they are already paid for when they were on TV 10 or 15 years ago, SO they really don't need to make more money. They need to make more episodes to make more money.
the thing I sued napster for the most was how easy it was to find perfomances that were not on any album. but again the fact someone does not need to make any more money does not change that you are breaking the copyright. At least you do fess up to that
Quote:
@gonzotek:
Wow. I didn't know they were actually suing users. Time to get a fully encrypted non user identifyable system going. It shows how dumb and desperate they are with thier broken business model.
yes it will be the same kind of in stages attack that they did on Napster and actually you are not the real target. They know a certain group will always stay ahead of the tech game and just cost too much to go after, but by driving things further underground they wil lreduce the problem to an acceptable loss point. But now they obviously find it unacceptable and certainly the loss of revenue in total from File sharing could well be close to a Billion a a year, and I mean real revenue that would have happened if the person did not have the free or cheap alternative
Quote:
@Classicsat:
If it isn't legally available and I steal it there is no lost revenue.
Yes, there could be a free p2p product, and tons of people would still buy it on DVD. They could also go for a paid system where the stuff is really cheap and there is no DRM. Quantity of sales, not quality. If there was a good way to get movies legally and at a decent price (under $2.50/movie) on the net, people would probably pirate less.
there is, I rent from Netflix and my viewing habits put the movies at 1.50 or less. this legal alternative is far simpler to me than bittorrent and you may well be right on this that without Netflix a lot of the subscribers would be using P2P. the depth of selection is a big draw to me so I would probablky pick torrent over Blockbuster.
Quote:
Same with releasing the DVD when the movie comes out in theaters, not waiting months to fully release it. Releasing to the theaters first is INVITING pirates to pirate the movie.
The industry has to adapt to the internet. If they do not offer an internet download service, the pirates will do it for them and they will lost potential profit. If they do not adapt and release movies immediately to DVD and the internet and cut their own costs to make a good profit, they may go out of business.
Then why are box office sales dropping like a fishing weight while DVD sales are going up? Becasue people want a cheaper way to watch movies whenever and wehrever they want. You can watch DVDs on the computer, on the TV, home theater, by the pool, in teh car.
Yes, but eventually it will become very similar if anyone other than verizon gets around to FTTH.
Box office sales dropped because of crappy movies. Free market at work there. But if they reelased the DVD on the day a major movie hit the theaters it would hurt the box office - no question about it.
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Old 07-02-2005, 05:39 PM   #177 (Print)
dgh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigg
The point is that you didn't specify anything, just putting argumentative words without an explaination.


Yes, I was imitating you. Couldn't you tell or were you just annoyed at how hard it was to understand?

I lost track back where you "at'd me" 10, count em 10 times in the same post and threw around pronouns like "it", "them" and "they" without context. I was already a little lost in your "ats" from previous posts but I totally gave up on that one.

I'll specify if you will but I think your logic is essentially "I want" so I don't think we're really going to get anywhere no matter how much more specific we get.

The thing I like best about this thread is how "they" are a monopoly and "they" "hold a great deal of power and influence that the little man can rarely fight" and "they" are "desperate".

Last edited by dgh : 07-02-2005 at 06:07 PM.
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Old 07-03-2005, 09:28 AM   #178 (Print)
Bigg
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Posts: 1,483
@ZeoTiVo:
They are creating the problem with their release schedule. He is selling a lot of DVDs that are not out yet (cams from a theater bittorrent DVD burner), or shows that have not been put onto DVD yet (TV rips from a few months ago). If they could legally obtain the much higher quality content, they would.
And my movie has $130,000 of embedded commercials? There are other ways to make the $$$$. Or I sold some high quality DVDs with extra features and stuff for $10/ea and then put an embedded commercial version on torrent?
Then why did CD sales peak at the same time napster's traffic peaked?
They are going after the big ripping and bootlegging groups, and they are going after the torrent sites. Although another one just pops up, at least they make them hard to find. R.I.P. Lokitorrent. :cry:
THey need to do an unlimited netflix type thing over the net. I have heard that there is some problem with who owns the rights to internet distribution, but I would think the money would just get distributed a little differently based on who owns the rights?
It would hurt the box office, but it would probably benefit DVD slaes more than it hurt the box office, giving the content creators more $$$$. I really don't go to the movies, just buy or rent DVDs, but by the time something comes out on DVD, I have already forgotten about it.

@dgh:
It seems everyone else is OK. I was using @'s because there were a lot of posts I was responding to and I was making a response to each one. You post 10X, you get 10 @'s. Don't like it? Leave this thread then.

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Old 07-03-2005, 10:30 AM   #179 (Print)
dgh
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@Bigg:
No.
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