TiVo Community Forum

TiVo Community Forum Archive 2
Covering threads with a last post date between
July 1, 2004 and December 31, 2005.
THIS IS A READ ONLY SITE
 


 

SEARCH  |  ARCHIVE 1 MAIN SITE

 
Forum Jump
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 12-27-2005, 12:06 PM   #1 (Print)
VEP
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 12
DTV conspiracy to force R15 upgrade

Yesterday, after returning from vacation, our DirecTivo had the "Almost done. Just a few more minutes..." screen up, as when the unit reboots. Never done that randomly before. So I rebooted a few times, each time it gets stuck on this screen (and several hours, as I left it that way last night).

Called DirecTV tech support this morning & they said I need a new unit. Hmmm...

So the only unit I can buy now (unless I pay $$$) is the R15, non-Tivo unit.

I'm just wondering, and the evidence is purely circumstantial, if DTV is pushing this "bug" onto Tivo units to force us Tivo holdouts to buy their new R15 units. And giving a boost in new DVR hardware sales to prove to Wall Street their move to dump Tivo is founded ("Oh look, all these Tivo users are upgrading to R15's, thus proving it must be better!"). Hmmmm......

Or my unit is broken & needs to be replaced.
VEP is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 12-27-2005, 12:08 PM   #2 (Print)
coolbreeze
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 34
I highly doubt it. I just bought a brand new R10 last week. Just go out and buy a brand new R10...they are free after rebate now...(if you can find one).
coolbreeze is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 12-27-2005, 12:13 PM   #3 (Print)
ebonovic
A TiVo Junkie...
 
ebonovic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Tinley Park, IL USA (SW ChicagoBurbs)
Posts: 8,245
I am not even "going there".....

Needless to say... There is ZERO chance DirecTV is doing this.
Doing so would be illegal somewhere, or lease be SERIOUS grounds for lawsuits.

__________________
- Earl (XBL: Fontano)
Favorite 05/06 TV Lines: Karma! ; Suit Up! ; Legendary.....

Non-TiVo DirecTV DVR (R15,HR20) ->
DBSTalk
ebonovic is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 12-27-2005, 12:29 PM   #4 (Print)
steuert
TivoGeezer
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 2,240
I also doubt DTV is being so devious, if for no other reason than they lose $ on every PVR they sell, due to their subsidy of same. Their main interest is selling programming, not losing money by pushing hardware!

"The evidence is purely circumstantial"

No, the evidence is purely non-existant. (On the other hand, maybe they're transmitting some kind of death frequency from the satellite, that affects only TiVo units. I'm going to wrap my R10 in tin foil - that oughta to teach 'em a lesson!)
steuert is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 12-27-2005, 12:48 PM   #5 (Print)
CherryBmb
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by VEP
I'm just wondering, and the evidence is purely circumstantial, if DTV is pushing this "bug" onto Tivo units to force us Tivo holdouts to buy their new R15 units. And giving a boost in new DVR hardware sales to prove to Wall Street their move to dump Tivo is founded ("Oh look, all these Tivo users are upgrading to R15's, thus proving it must be better!"). Hmmmm......

Or my unit is broken & needs to be replaced.


Yeah right, and there were two men on the grassy knoll...sheesh
CherryBmb is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 12-27-2005, 02:10 PM   #6 (Print)
Mori
TIVO Lover
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 16
I noticed the bug starting about three months back and honestly don't believe that it is D* that is doing it but Tivo. The reason I think this is that when the DTivo makes its calls it calls the Tivo server which performs the maintenance. But who knows. Thats just my opinion.
Mori is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 12-27-2005, 03:17 PM   #7 (Print)
ISWIZ
Southern Yankee
 
ISWIZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Pisgah Forest, NC US
Posts: 91
Ah ha, it's really a COMCAST conspiracy.

__________________
Dave

DTV R15
Hughes Direct Tivo Combo @ 107hrs
ISWIZ is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 12-27-2005, 07:13 PM   #8 (Print)
goony
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 944
If there ever were such a conspiracy hatched I'd strongly suggest it would be part of a DirecTV "Profit Prevention Program" - us long-term, low churn DirecTivo users might decide to look at other services (DishNetwork, cableco).
goony is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 12-28-2005, 02:14 AM   #9 (Print)
Ingavar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 40
As we all well know....

It has to be Bush's fault.

LOL
Ingavar is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 12-28-2005, 06:43 AM   #10 (Print)
dtremain
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 972
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ingavar
It has to be Bush's fault.

LOL
LOL. You beat me to it. So, I'll just raise suspicions about Haliburton. And, I hear it was a "no bid" contract!

Seriously though, it sounds more like a failed hard drive than failed business ethics.

Either way, you end up with an R15.
dtremain is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 12-28-2005, 10:33 AM   #11 (Print)
WO312
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Wilmington, NC
Posts: 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by dtremain
.....Seriously though, it sounds more like a failed hard drive than failed business ethics.

Either way, you end up with an R15.

I agree that it sounds like a failed hard drive. However, you DON'T have to wind up with an R-15. You can fix the hard drive problem.
WO312 is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 12-28-2005, 12:55 PM   #12 (Print)
R1guy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 3
I just bought a new R-10 from Best Buy a week ago, they had a whole stack of them.

The power probably went out and caused your hard drive to get stuck. You could take out the hd, hold it about 8 inches from the carpet, and drop it flat (face down) onto the floor. It sounds a little crazy but sometimes works. The disks get stuck in the hd and the jolt can sometimes free them. May cause more damage also, but if it's not working anyway who cares.
R1guy is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 12-28-2005, 02:15 PM   #13 (Print)
dtremain
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 972
Quote:
Originally Posted by WO312
I agree that it sounds like a failed hard drive. However, you DON'T have to wind up with an R-15. You can fix the hard drive problem.
Then you end up with a PC hard drive instead of the network type used in factory equipment. Result--the constant barrage of messages on this forum about constant reboots and pixelation with 6.2.

Hey, lots of folks do it, and it's your equipment.

Your call.
dtremain is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 12-28-2005, 02:21 PM   #14 (Print)
ebonovic
A TiVo Junkie...
 
ebonovic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Tinley Park, IL USA (SW ChicagoBurbs)
Posts: 8,245
Quote:
Originally Posted by dtremain
Then you end up with a PC hard drive instead of the network type used in factory equipment. Result--the constant barrage of messages on this forum about constant reboots and pixelation with 6.2.

Hey, lots of folks do it, and it's your equipment.

Your call.



Are you refering to purchasing an IDE hard drive from a retail store, vs the OEM one that is inside the units?

Those OEM drives are nearly identical to their counter parts that you can buy at any retailer. In fact some of them ARE the same ones, with just a OEM serial number so they don't come with 3 and 5 year warranties.

The OEM drives are certainly not "server" quality drives.
Last time I checked I have a Samsung 120gb drive, purchased from Best Buy, cranking away for almost 2 years now in one of my DSR-704 systems... and it has 6.2 with no constant repboots or pixelation with 6.2

__________________
- Earl (XBL: Fontano)
Favorite 05/06 TV Lines: Karma! ; Suit Up! ; Legendary.....

Non-TiVo DirecTV DVR (R15,HR20) ->
DBSTalk
ebonovic is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 12-28-2005, 02:57 PM   #15 (Print)
Hodaka
Registered User
 
Hodaka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Rolla, MO
Posts: 689
i agree with ebonovic.. the drives are the same.. they simply cut costs by offering no direct warranty and forcing you to go directly to DirecTV for any warranty service.. I've pulled computer harddrives that wouldn't allow me to go to the manufacturer either and instead I had to go to the company the computer came from..
Hodaka is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 12-28-2005, 03:15 PM   #16 (Print)
dtremain
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 972
Quote:
Originally Posted by ebonovic
Are you refering to purchasing an IDE hard drive from a retail store, vs the OEM one that is inside the units?

Those OEM drives are nearly identical to their counter parts that you can buy at any retailer. In fact some of them ARE the same ones, with just a OEM serial number so they don't come with 3 and 5 year warranties.

The OEM drives are certainly not "server" quality drives.
Last time I checked I have a Samsung 120gb drive, purchased from Best Buy, cranking away for almost 2 years now in one of my DSR-704 systems... and it has 6.2 with no constant repboots or pixelation with 6.2
That's not what I've heard. And when people were reporting problems after the 6.2 upgrade, they were almost all people who had installed their own drives. I noticed this and pointed it out at the time. There was a lot of agreement and little disagreement with my observation.

I was lucky. I got the 100 hr. Sammy back when they were selling the 35 hr. jobs for $100 and ran out. So I've got a big OEM hard drive. But, from what I've read, I wouldn't be tossing regular "pc" based hard drives into these things without concern.

But, what do I know?
dtremain is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 12-28-2005, 03:34 PM   #17 (Print)
ebonovic
A TiVo Junkie...
 
ebonovic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Tinley Park, IL USA (SW ChicagoBurbs)
Posts: 8,245
Quote:
Originally Posted by dtremain
But, what do I know?


You enough to post... and to post rational behind what you write...

All of my DTivos have the OEM drives pulled, and I use regular Retail Drives in them ranging from 120gb to 200gb.... (Except for the HR10-250 which is still on it's OEM).

IMHO... there is absolutely nothing different between the "PC" drives and the ones in the TiVo units.... after all... the TiVo is nothing more then a customized Computer.

__________________
- Earl (XBL: Fontano)
Favorite 05/06 TV Lines: Karma! ; Suit Up! ; Legendary.....

Non-TiVo DirecTV DVR (R15,HR20) ->
DBSTalk
ebonovic is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 12-28-2005, 03:42 PM   #18 (Print)
Phantom Gremlin
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Tualatin, Oregon
Posts: 171
There can be firmware differences between A/V drives and standard computer drives. Of course, without knowing the details of the specific drives, I don't know for sure if that's the case here.

Each sector on disk has not just data bytes, but additional bytes that allow for a certain level of Error Checking and Correction. So, for example, let's say a drive reads a sector from disk but the hardware tells the firmware: "correctable ECC error". The A/V drive firmware might immediately accept the correction and keep going, because it knows it needs to keep streaming. Whereas the server firmware might first attempt several re-reads to see if it can first get clean data that doesn't have any ECC errors. In the server case, ECC won't be applied until after the re-reads fail to get clean data. This is done because ECC has a certain probability of mis-correction that may be higher than the probability of an undetected error in a sector that has clean ECC. Also note that each re-read takes an additional disk revolution before it can occur. At 7200 RPM that's 8.3 extra milliseconds before the sector rotates around to the read head once again.

Anyway, that's a very simplistic example of a potential difference. The error recovery algorithms in the drive firmware are very sophisticated, and it's natural to expect that they would be different for different applications.
Phantom Gremlin is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 12-28-2005, 04:17 PM   #19 (Print)
macquariumguy
resU deretsigeR
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Sarasota, FL
Posts: 4,322
Send a message via AIM to macquariumguy Send a message via Yahoo to macquariumguy
I replaced the failed drive (locked up on startup) in one of my HDVR2 units years ago with a standard IDE drive and it's worked fine. Not only that, I took the failed drive and put it in my Mac and formatted it and it's still in everyday used today. Neither device seems to care.

__________________
Now with 96.9% better attitude.
macquariumguy is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 12-28-2005, 04:18 PM   #20 (Print)
SpankyInChicago
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Western Suburbs of Chicago
Posts: 694
I've got a cold. DirecTV must be including rhinovirus in each mailed monthly statement. This is so that I miss days of work and stay at home sick watching pay-per-view movies.
SpankyInChicago is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 12-28-2005, 06:13 PM   #21 (Print)
tbeckner
TiVo Fan
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Bend, OR, USA
Posts: 1,074
Quote:
Originally Posted by goony
If there ever were such a conspiracy hatched I'd strongly suggest it would be part of a DirecTV "Profit Prevention Program" - us long-term, low churn DirecTivo users might decide to look at other services (DishNetwork, cableco).
I agree, since DirecTV is currently undergoing lower new subscriber counts and higher than usual churn rates. Currently DirecTV is predicting a growth rate for 2006 that is half the 2004 growth rate and only two thirds the 2005 growth rate.

__________________
Orig Join Date: 5/2000
Sony SVR-2000 3.0 5/23/2000
(3) Hughes HDVR2 6.2 HMO/MRV
(2) Hughes SD-DVR80 6.2 HMO/MRV
(1) Slingbox 1.0.5.140
DirecTV 10/94
with TyTool, TServer, TiVoServer
tbeckner is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 12-28-2005, 06:28 PM   #22 (Print)
tbeckner
TiVo Fan
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Bend, OR, USA
Posts: 1,074
Quote:
Originally Posted by dtremain
That's not what I've heard. And when people were reporting problems after the 6.2 upgrade, they were almost all people who had installed their own drives. I noticed this and pointed it out at the time. There was a lot of agreement and little disagreement with my observation.

I was lucky. I got the 100 hr. Sammy back when they were selling the 35 hr. jobs for $100 and ran out. So I've got a big OEM hard drive. But, from what I've read, I wouldn't be tossing regular "pc" based hard drives into these things without concern.

But, what do I know?
I agree with ebonovic. Other than some model differences in feature sets, the OEM drives in any TiVo are not that much different than any retail drive you can buy at Staples.

I remember Weaknees clammering about their use of "Maxtor QuickView Hard Drives", what they where not telling you is that Maxtor in 2005 put the QuickView technology in almost all of their drives, including the standard retail red boxes sold at Staples and other stores.

I have a Stand Alone Series 1 TiVo (Sony SVR-2000) that has been functioning without any problem for over FIVE AND HALF YEARS, with two hard drives, the standard OEM and a standard retail red box Maxtor 60GB I bought at Staples in June 2000, and installed the next weekend.

In addition, the rest of my DirecTiVos do not use OEM drives and all are on 6.2 and have been hacked for MRV.

I assume that next thing we will hear is that DirecTV has a CONTRACT with ALIENS FROM ANOTHER PLANET, and if you have a DirecTiVo these aliens will be visting you in the middle of the night and taking you away to a distance planet where all the DirecTiVo users go. I guess I better lock my doors. Paranoia is sweeping the planet. Maybe George Bush is having the NSA monitor all DirecTiVo users!

__________________
Orig Join Date: 5/2000
Sony SVR-2000 3.0 5/23/2000
(3) Hughes HDVR2 6.2 HMO/MRV
(2) Hughes SD-DVR80 6.2 HMO/MRV
(1) Slingbox 1.0.5.140
DirecTV 10/94
with TyTool, TServer, TiVoServer
tbeckner is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 12-28-2005, 11:19 PM   #23 (Print)
HiDefGator
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 322
If three years from now I have 4 non-Tivo DirecTv dvrs in my house and one old DirecTivo that is still functioning, does Tivo still get their check for $1.13 every month?

If that is the case, then I could picture DirecTv eventually calling people up and saying the DirecTivo has to be replaced.
HiDefGator is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 12-29-2005, 02:46 AM   #24 (Print)
ADent
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 1,670
My local Walmart still has two R10 units on the shelf - looks like they are the same two I saw in November.
ADent is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 12-29-2005, 05:09 AM   #25 (Print)
tbeckner
TiVo Fan
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Bend, OR, USA
Posts: 1,074
Quote:
Originally Posted by HiDefGator
If three years from now I have 4 non-Tivo DirecTv dvrs in my house and one old DirecTivo that is still functioning, does Tivo still get their check for $1.13 every month?

If that is the case, then I could picture DirecTv eventually calling people up and saying the DirecTivo has to be replaced.
And DirecTV will likely be calling every DirecTiVo user in about 6 to 7 years, after most of the DirecTiVos have died, and requesting that they replace their DirecTiVos with the flavor of the month. But that is only if DirecTV really cares by then, they just might let all of DirecTiVos die, that way they have an excuse for not replacing the, unless you have equipment coverage.

It could be that DirecTV within 6 to 7 years could only be a shell of their current self. Their subscriber growth rates are slowing down at sizable rate and if that type of subscriber growth rate descreases continues at the current rate, and without the higher current churn rates they are having, DirecTV could reach zero growth in 5 years or before.

You do the math, I would say that dumping DirecTV when they did General Motors/Hughes made one of their best decisions in many years.

If you need to see the detail numbers, all of the numbers are available on the web, remember they are a public company and they have to post the numbers.(agreed a lot of companies have lied in the past, but if these pitful numbers are lies, then DirecTV is in far worst shape.) And I highly doubt that they would lie, especially since their past stockholders are currently suing DirecTV.

__________________
Orig Join Date: 5/2000
Sony SVR-2000 3.0 5/23/2000
(3) Hughes HDVR2 6.2 HMO/MRV
(2) Hughes SD-DVR80 6.2 HMO/MRV
(1) Slingbox 1.0.5.140
DirecTV 10/94
with TyTool, TServer, TiVoServer
tbeckner is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 12-29-2005, 09:19 AM   #26 (Print)
Rkkeller
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 664
I honestly don't see DirecTV supporting the DirecTiVo's in a few years. Once all us "Beta testers" early upgraders of their new R-15 tell them whats all wrong with it and they work out the bugs, which they will, I can see them stop offering any more updates to the DirecTiVo's and offer the R-15 or maybe by then the R-?? as their only upgrade path.

I really cant see them making updates for both DVR's forever.


Rich
Rkkeller is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 12-29-2005, 10:12 AM   #27 (Print)
JimSpence
Finally own HR10-250
 
JimSpence's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Binghamton, NY
Posts: 19,904
So you registered today, just so you can use epithets toward someone who is just asking a question. Sheesh.

Then there is this enlightened statement. http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-v...5&&#post3620265

Have a Happy New Year.

__________________
Jim
May all terrorists drop dead!
JimSpence is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 12-29-2005, 10:22 AM   #28 (Print)
ebonovic
A TiVo Junkie...
 
ebonovic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Tinley Park, IL USA (SW ChicagoBurbs)
Posts: 8,245
Quote:
Originally Posted by tbeckner
And DirecTV will likely be calling every DirecTiVo user in about 6 to 7 years, ....
It could be that DirecTV within 6 to 7 years could only be a shell of their current self.
..


If people are still using the current DirecTivos or just even current TiVos in 6 to 7 years..

1) They are really lucky that the hard drive hasn't gone bad (or they replaced it a few times
2) That technology advancements have come to a screeching halt
3) People really really really really hate change


I look at most of my electronics today with about a 3 year life expectance... before either it dies, or get the urge to replace it with something newer....

It's an addiction... is there a 12 step program?

__________________
- Earl (XBL: Fontano)
Favorite 05/06 TV Lines: Karma! ; Suit Up! ; Legendary.....

Non-TiVo DirecTV DVR (R15,HR20) ->
DBSTalk
ebonovic is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 12-29-2005, 04:26 PM   #29 (Print)
RCY
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: SoCal
Posts: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by ebonovic
If people are still using the current DirecTivos or just even current TiVos in 6 to 7 years..

1) They are really lucky that the hard drive hasn't gone bad (or they replaced it a few times
2) That technology advancements have come to a screeching halt
3) People really really really really hate change


I look at most of my electronics today with about a 3 year life expectance... before either it dies, or get the urge to replace it with something newer....

It's an addiction... is there a 12 step program?


Three years is about right for mainstream ownership of DTIVOs. No new software/product improvements for three years, simple hardware attrition, and the majority will have moved onto whatever is "new". A few will hold on for a very long time (replacing hard drives, keeping their modified DTIVO software allowing HMO, etc) but that's the far edge of the bell curve.

I'll happily keep my DTIVOs till they give out, or HD reaches the mainstream. I've built PCs, so I've no aversion to eventually opening the case on my DTIVOs to replace a hard drive. But I'm not looking for a new hobby in maintaining my DVR. (hacking)
RCY is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 12-29-2005, 06:19 PM   #30 (Print)
szvers
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 20
Bush lied DirecTivos died!
szvers is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
 
Forum Jump
Thread Tools

Go Back  TiVo Community Archive2 > Main TiVo Forums > DIRECTV Receiver with TiVo

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:42 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.0.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
(C)opyright - All Rights Reserved. No information may be posted elsewhere without written permission.
TiVoŽ is a registered trademark of TiVo Inc. This site is not affiliated with TiVo Inc.


Spider History Index