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View Poll Results: Would you buy Commercial Free music CD's if they were as CF as XM Radio
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Old 12-19-2005, 02:31 PM   #121 (Print)
tbeckner
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nfuego
Ok...but why do you choose this forum? DirectTV never even cared what WE thought of crippled DirecTiVos...why do you think they will care what YOU think about XM on a TiVo forum?
That didn't stop hundreds of people and thousands of posts did it?

And a Sticky: Organize an HMO request thread at the top of this forum with 633 posts and 144,959 views?

And if you read one of my last posts on this thread from yesterday, you will notice that I said that we should send e-mail directly to the XM RADIO's DJs and XM RADIO's management.

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Old 12-19-2005, 02:34 PM   #122 (Print)
tbeckner
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nfuego
KNEE JERK??? Dish has had Sirius for YEARS.

Of COURSE it was a deal with XM. WIN/WIN...you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours with 2 companies.

Everything is business...get over it!
Question, are you a XM RADIO subscriber? Did you listen to MUSIC CHOICE? Did you like the selections on MUSIC CHOICE?

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Old 12-19-2005, 02:55 PM   #123 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbeckner
Question, are you a XM RADIO subscriber? Did you listen to MUSIC CHOICE? Did you like the selections on MUSIC CHOICE?


No, but seriously considering. Yes. Yes, as much as I like the XM selections now available by DTV.
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Old 12-19-2005, 03:09 PM   #124 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlWingNut
It's included with your D* subscription -- you're not paying for XM specifically.
But I am paying for it, the same way you are paying that extra $1500 if you buy a GM auto. Or that extra .005 per kilowatt for electricity, because your electric company fully pays health insurnace for all of their employees at about $2000 per month (for a family) and pays their yearly deductible ($5000) for them, while you or some of your friends go without health insurance or pay monthly premiums out of your wages. Nothing comes for free.

Of course, I refuse to cut off my nose to spite my face, and even though I have been a DirecTV customer going on 12 years now, I will not drop DirecTV because of their screwed up decisions. And in some ways I am thankful that they did do this, because it allowed me to get a taste of what I view as the future of video delivery, which is true video OnDemand.

And with that said, DirecTV has opened the door for my possible exist from their service after TiVo releases their new dual tuner cable card ready HD capable TiVo this next year. After signing up for cable for the first time in almost 12 years, I noticed that cable has come a long ways since 1994, and in most but not all ways, caught up with DirecTV.

In fact, in one way, cable has passed DirecTV, which is in the area of OnDemand. The way my cable company charges for OnDemand makes it almost impossible to refuse to take advantage of the service and since a one-way wireless service like DirecTv could never compete in a truely OnDemand marketplace, I can see that changes I made very early on in 1994 for DirecTV and then again early in 2000 for TiVo, may now again be modified to take advantage of the coming revolution in OnDemand services.

There is no doubt that OnDemand will drive video delivery in the next two decades and DirecTV could only be at most a very minor player in that direction, because unless they blanketed the sky in satellites, which I doubt they could afford, and setup two-way communications, they could never gain the bandwidth to compete with wired GPON and TPON installations. (Gigabit and Terabit Passive Optical Networks) Agreed everyone will not have access to FTTP/FTTH within the next few years, but I should have access within two years, because I have had FTTC since 2001 and my local cable company is very progressive (2nd Road Runner in nation), fiber since 1998, and cable broadband since 1997 (I have had cable broadband since 1998).

Anyway, DirecTV created the situation that allowed me to get a taste of OnDemand and this has fueled my passion to make another major change in my video delivery direction, and DirecTV just pushed a long term high revenue customer away (although it will be awhile before I finally leave).

I figured out that over the last 11 years, with early PPV buying (before Netflix), other various services, including premium channels, local channels, extra PLUS channels, distance feed channels, NFLST, and extra sports buying, that I have actually spent well over $20,000 in DirecTV purchases over those years, and I never asked for anything in return from DirecTV, like FREE professional installation, FREE equipment (or even a rebate), and I purchased all of my equipment including four Sony receivers (first one cost about $600 in 1994, via a special order) from local retailers, so I imagine that if I am the type of customer who is looking to leave DirecTV for what currently appears to be greener pastures, then DirecTV maybe gasping for breath by the 2015.

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Old 12-19-2005, 03:13 PM   #125 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amgqmp1
No, but seriously considering. Yes. Yes, as much as I like the XM selections now available by DTV.
Does this mean that you actually like a RADIO format over uninterrupted music? If that is the case, why not listen to FM RADIO, it has better depth of sound than XM RADIO has over DirecTV and unless all of the FM RADIO stations in your area really suck (if you live in the a very rural area, I can understand), why not FM RADIO, it is free.

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Old 12-19-2005, 03:24 PM   #126 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbeckner
Does this mean that you actually like a RADIO format over uninterrupted music? If that is the case, why not listen to FM RADIO, it has better depth of sound than XM RADIO has over DirecTV and unless all of the FM RADIO stations in your area really suck (if you live in the a very rural area, I can understand), why not FM RADIO, it is free.


If its as black and white as your response then either Bend, OR has the greatest FM radio ever or you dont understand all of the benifits of XM. There is a huge difference in the offering on DirecTV and the full package you get as an XM subscriber.
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Old 12-19-2005, 03:28 PM   #127 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbeckner
... I have a great new idea....
I like that idea, and I bet a lot of Forum members like that idea too, thinking we'll then take our leave...

I have emailed XM a number of times with nary a response, but it was to the general email address and not any channel specific address, that is worth a shot. But I doubt they care... Course all the people that like commercials will then do the same and out voice us...

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Old 12-19-2005, 03:29 PM   #128 (Print)
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[QUOTE=tbeckner]But I am paying for it, the same way you are paying that extra $1500 if you buy a GM auto. Or that extra .005 per kilowatt for electricity, because your electric company fully pays health insurnace for all of their employees at about $2000 per month (for a family) and pays their yearly deductible ($5000) for them, while you or some of your friends go without health insurance or pay monthly premiums out of your wages. Nothing comes for free.[QUOTE]

You're correct on that, of course, but I fail to see the point. Anytime you buy a prodcut of any kind, you're paying the merchant/provider/manufactuer for all the overhead that goes with it. You're paying for the wages and benefits of the people who make it, the taxes that go to Uncle Sam, for the company lawyers to figure out how not to pay taxes, for the CEO's jet, for their advertising budget, for health insurance, for the coffee in the break room...again what's your point as it relates to XM radio on Directv?
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Old 12-19-2005, 03:30 PM   #129 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pearhead
Question for Blankman et. al.

Do you have a broadband connection?
SDSL

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Old 12-19-2005, 03:31 PM   #130 (Print)
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Who buys commercial CD's anymore ?



Rich
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Old 12-19-2005, 03:37 PM   #131 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by warrenevans
I will add my .02.

A promo is not an Ad! I don't wanna hear Kia ads telling me that if I have a job and $200 that I could be approved for a car. I heard an ad on the radio yesterday about"You shouldn't have to pay for radio" Well hello I just payd for it by hearing the Kia ad. I don't wanna here that stuff. But something telling me about programing on other channels is fine. TOday I heard a promo on xm48 about a Rolling Stone box set they where playing on deep tracks.

The Music on Xm is so much better the MC. I wish I had a bigger commute so I could justfie sticking one in the car instead of just "wacthing" it on my Tivo. **(My commute is only two miles)**

This was posted a number of times now but I'll post it here for warrenevans's benefit.

I would think by now and according to Webster, people would concede this point. I'm not making these definitions up folks.

Those interruptions you refer to as "Promos" are de facto commercials. One of the definitions of Commercial is "Sponsored by an advertiser or supported by advertising". The definition of an Advertiser is:

1. To make public announcement of, especially to proclaim the qualities or advantages of (a product or business) so as to increase sales. See Synonyms at announce.
2. To make known; call attention to: advertised my intention to resign.
3. To warn or notify: “This event advertises me that there is such a fact as death” (Henry David Thoreau).

Nowhere does that part say it has to be from/for someone/something else nor does it qualify that money has to exchange hands to be considered a commercial. The part of the definition that says "supported by advertising" implies some sort of payment takes place to do the "support" part but that does not have to be money, one XM channel could be advertising thus supporting another XM channel. At any rate that part is qualified by an "or", so "Sponsored by an advertiser" take precedence in this case.

XM is making various announcements of its programming, station name and whatnot, therefore they are the "Advertiser" and they are the Sponsor in what is the Commercial. Nowhere does it say just because they are advertising themselves well then that's not a commercial.

Don't kid yourself, they are commercials. Can't wait till somebody gets PO'd enough or some lawyer somewhere decides to start a class action suit based on it being advertised as "Commercial Free" when it's really not. Where's Denny Crane when you need him...


And....

The other morning I was flipping through channels and checked out Highway 16 again. During the short time I had it on there was this big blaring spot (commercial, advertisement, promo, what ever you want to call it) for XM's Gospel music channel. Now not that I'm against Gospel music, I actually like it, but that Commercial had nothing to do with the songs being played on Highway 16 or by any stretch of the imagination anything at all to do with Highway 16.

I don't know how anyone can defend that and not classify it as a Commercial.

Period.

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Old 12-19-2005, 03:42 PM   #132 (Print)
tbeckner
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlWingNut
Quote:
Originally Posted by tbeckner
But I am paying for it, the same way you are paying that extra $1500 if you buy a GM auto. Or that extra .005 per kilowatt for electricity, because your electric company fully pays health insurnace for all of their employees at about $2000 per month (for a family) and pays their yearly deductible ($5000) for them, while you or some of your friends go without health insurance or pay monthly premiums out of your wages. Nothing comes for free.
You're correct on that, of course, but I fail to see the point. Anytime you buy a prodcut of any kind, you're paying the merchant/provider/manufactuer for all the overhead that goes with it. You're paying for the wages and benefits of the people who make it, the taxes that go to Uncle Sam, for the company lawyers to figure out how not to pay taxes, for the CEO's jet, for their advertising budget, for health insurance, for the coffee in the break room...again what's your point as it relates to XM radio on Directv?
The point is, that I am now paying the same amount for what I view as a less valuable service, which is now XM RADIO. I view MUSIC CHOICE, which is something I have had since 1994 as my choice and XM RADIO as a choice that maybe they should have offered as an additional choice for a small monthly fee.

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Old 12-19-2005, 03:44 PM   #133 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlankMan
This was posted a number of times now but I'll post it here for warrenevans's benefit.

I would think by now and according to Webster, people would concede this point. I'm not making these definitions up folks.

Those interruptions you refer to as "Promos" are de facto commercials. One of the definitions of Commercial is "Sponsored by an advertiser or supported by advertising". The definition of an Advertiser is:

1. To make public announcement of, especially to proclaim the qualities or advantages of (a product or business) so as to increase sales. See Synonyms at announce.
2. To make known; call attention to: advertised my intention to resign.
3. To warn or notify: “This event advertises me that there is such a fact as death” (Henry David Thoreau).

Nowhere does that part say it has to be from/for someone/something else nor does it qualify that money has to exchange hands to be considered a commercial. The part of the definition that says "supported by advertising" implies some sort of payment takes place to do the "support" part but that does not have to be money, one XM channel could be advertising thus supporting another XM channel. At any rate that part is qualified by an "or", so "Sponsored by an advertiser" take precedence in this case.

XM is making various announcements of its programming, station name and whatnot, therefore they are the "Advertiser" and they are the Sponsor in what is the Commercial. Nowhere does it say just because they are advertising themselves well then that's not a commercial.

Don't kid yourself, they are commercials. Can't wait till somebody gets PO'd enough or some lawyer somewhere decides to start a class action suit based on it being advertised as "Commercial Free" when it's really not. Where's Denny Crane when you need him...


And....

The other morning I was flipping through channels and checked out Highway 16 again. During the short time I had it on there was this big blaring spot (commercial, advertisement, promo, what ever you want to call it) for XM's Gospel music channel. Now not that I'm against Gospel music, I actually like it, but that Commercial had nothing to do with the songs being played on Highway 16 or by any stretch of the imagination anything at all to do with Highway 16.

I don't know how anyone can defend that and not classify it as a Commercial.

Period.


Webster's is irrelevant for this discussion. In industry terms, promos and PSA's are NOT commericals, and the FCC and FTC concur. It's been that way since Marconi first solicted for "caller number 10 for a free t-shirt."
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Old 12-19-2005, 03:46 PM   #134 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbeckner
The point is, that I am now paying the same amount for what I view as a less valuable service, which is now XM RADIO. I view MUSIC CHOICE, which is something I have had since 1994 as my choice and XM RADIO as a choice that maybe they should have offered as an additional choice for a small monthly fee.


I understand, and don't neccessarily disagree. If you feel the service is less valuable, you have choices, which, reading some of your other posts, you're exercising. More power to choice!
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Old 12-19-2005, 03:47 PM   #135 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbeckner
The point is, that I am now paying the same amount for what I view as a less valuable service, which is now XM RADIO. I view MUSIC CHOICE, which is something I have had since 1994 as my choice and XM RADIO as a choice that maybe they should have offered as an additional choice for a small monthly fee.


If you've been with them since 1994 then surely there have been times when they have either added a channel you didnt care about, dropped one you liked or simply didnt pick up one you wanted. Right? Why is this so hard to understand?

Btw - i've been listening to Real Jazz for the past 45 minutes and I have heard one "interuption" that was about 4 seconds long. Its actually kind of fun to pay attention and see how much you guys exagerate
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Old 12-19-2005, 03:48 PM   #136 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nfuego
Hmmmm....I've never heard XM Stop DEAD IN THE MIDDLE of a song and play a promo...
Yeah yeah yeah another nit picker...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nfuego
I think you are exaggerating...I have XM and Love it. I welcome the exposure to the DTV audience.

People like you will never be satisfied...that is why I buzz through your posts about XM with a grain of salt.
Wait a minute. I was perfectly satisfied with Commercial Free Music Choice channels. But you say I wasn't. What do you know that I don't know?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nfuego
Sure they play promos...
They're called commericals. See my other posts describing what makes a commercial according to Webster.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nfuego
But, they are short and full of info.
Yes full of info. Like the one telling me You're listening to Highway 16 on XM Radio.. Doh! I put the channel on. I saw it in the info bar. Yes, real informative...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nfuego
No different than HBO, Showtime, etc...
But HBO and Showtime do not advertise themselves as having commercial free (i.e. advertisement free, commercail free, promo free) music.

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Old 12-19-2005, 03:51 PM   #137 (Print)
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Originally Posted by tlynch5
If its as black and white as your response then either Bend, OR has the greatest FM radio ever or you dont understand all of the benifits of XM. There is a huge difference in the offering on DirecTV and the full package you get as an XM subscriber.
Actually, I do not see a problem with replacing FM RADIO with XM RADIO, but only in an auto or as a portable device, which is where XM RADIO has been all these years, but not as a replacement for uninterrupted music in a home or a business. I have used MUSIC CHOICE as sleeping music, and now with the interruptions for the chatter, I have had to discontinue that usage. And remember I have had MUSIC CHOICE for over 11 years now.

I have been woke up by the talking on XM RADIO, so it is not a choice to sleep by.

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Old 12-19-2005, 03:53 PM   #138 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbeckner
The point is....
Are we rehashing a lot of the same points or what? People must be posting without reading the thread and think they have the mother of all points that will end this discussion once and for all...

They're commercials folks....

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Old 12-19-2005, 03:54 PM   #139 (Print)
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Quote:
kpreede said:
So...do you consider the time between movies on HBO where they basically play commercials for HBO to be unacceptable too?
Yes, when those HBO promos cause the show I'm recording to start 5 minutes late.

TiVo lets me skip over the promos, but often the show is still running when the recording ends. (And padding sometimes causes conflicts.)

And BTW, why do promos (on any channel) have to be in SD when the current show and the promoted show are both in HD? That really gripes me. Another gripe: Promotional movie excerpts on the Conan O'Brian and Dave Letterman shows are in HD, but not on Jay Leno's show.

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Old 12-19-2005, 03:55 PM   #140 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlWingNut
Webster's is irrelevant for this discussion. In industry terms, promos and PSA's are NOT commericals, and the FCC and FTC concur. It's been that way since Marconi first solicted for "caller number 10 for a free t-shirt."
Can you point me the the FCC rule that defines this? I'd like to see.

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Old 12-19-2005, 03:55 PM   #141 (Print)
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Quote:
tbeckner said:
Would you be happy with your investment in your DirecTiVo if DirecTV started streaming ONLY PORN to your DirecTiVo 24 hours a day and nothing else? Think about it.
Hmmmm. Wait, don't say anything, I'm still thinking.

BTW, D* is about to devalue my $1000 investment big time, by providing any new HD channels only in MPEG-4 format and offering only a featureless generic DVR to replace my state-of-the-art HDTiVo. This forces former Comcast subscribers like me to abandon our investments in D* equipment as we switch back to cable.

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Old 12-19-2005, 03:58 PM   #142 (Print)
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Originally Posted by tbeckner
Actually, I do not see a problem with replacing FM RADIO with XM RADIO, but only in an auto or as a portable device, which is where XM RADIO has been all these years, but not as a replacement for uninterrupted music in a home or a business. I have used MUSIC CHOICE as sleeping music, and now with the interruptions for the chatter, I have had to discontinue that usage. And remember I have had MUSIC CHOICE for over 11 years now.

I have been woke up by the talking on XM RADIO, so it is not a choice to sleep by.


Out of curiousity what channels are you guy listening to - other than the decade channels i dont know any with loud djs other than say squizz but if you are sleeping to that then its a whole other story
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Old 12-19-2005, 04:00 PM   #143 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nfuego
I welcome the exposure to the DTV audience.
This is what I thought, you are a previous subscriber to XM RADIO. Most of the positive feedback is from previous subscribers to XM RADIO, and I understand that if I was use to the chatter (less thna FM RADIO) and what already use to the service and was already paying for the service, I would be defending XM RADIO too.

But that is not my situation, and I am a 11+ year subscriber to MUSIC CHOICE (via DirecTV), and I have integrated MUSIC CHOICE fully into my private life at home and my business life at work.

I would have been happy with XM RADIO, except that the extra chatter on XM RADIO really interrupts me in both situations. [Note: read my other posts]

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Old 12-19-2005, 04:00 PM   #144 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpacemanSpiff
You're not entirely correct there DirecTVLover. I never buy club DVD's or rental returns. There are off the shelf at Best Buy, Circuit City, or Wal-Mart with commercials/previews that can't be skipped.


Nonetheless you can still fast forward....it takes longer then hitting the skip button, but it's faster then sitting through the promo.
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Old 12-19-2005, 04:05 PM   #145 (Print)
tbeckner
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Originally Posted by tlynch5
Out of curiousity what channels are you guy listening to - other than the decade channels i dont know any with loud djs other than say squizz but if you are sleeping to that then its a whole other story

Actually, I started switching between two channels 856 (New Age category) and/or 866 (POP Classical category), which is currently Christmas Classical (or something like that) until 12/26.

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Old 12-19-2005, 04:05 PM   #146 (Print)
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This is unreal.

XM interrupts its music. On that we all seem to agree.

Some of those interruptions are informative to some. On the channels I have listened to I found them not to be.

The bottom line here is, that people are sticking up for XM and those interruptions.

When the alternative could be real uninterrupted music.

It appears that in our society having commercials is a right that people will now fight to keep.

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Old 12-19-2005, 04:10 PM   #147 (Print)
SpacemanSpiff
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Directvlover
Nonetheless you can still fast forward....it takes longer then hitting the skip button, but it's faster then sitting through the promo.


Actually I have had DVD's where I could do nothing other than sit there and watch the commercial. The entire remote was locked out. Similar to what happens when the FBI warning is played. Except it wasn't the FBI warning it was a trailer for another movie.

So what I do is put the DVD in the player while I'm still getting my beverage, popcorn, etc. I shouldn't have to do that though.
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Old 12-19-2005, 04:12 PM   #148 (Print)
tlynch5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlankMan
This is unreal.

XM interrupts its music. On that we all seem to agree.

Some of those interruptions are informative to some. On the channels I have listened to I found them not to be.

The bottom line here is, that people are sticking up for XM and those interruptions.

When the alternative could be real uninterrupted music.

It appears that in our society having commercials is a right that people will now fight to keep.


Then there are the people you dont think exist like me who thought the playlists on MC sucked. Uninterrupted crap just means i got more crap. Yes music choice was uninterupted but by switching to XM didnt they almost double the number of music channels? offering more variety? I bet a lot of us enjoy the tradeoff. sorry you dont - check your pm's

I'm over an hour now in my Real Jazz listen test and I think there has maybe been 20 seconds of nonmusic chatter
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Old 12-19-2005, 04:18 PM   #149 (Print)
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Originally Posted by Directvlover
Nonetheless you can still fast forward....it takes longer then hitting the skip button, but it's faster then sitting through the promo.
Actually some DVDs will not allow FF through the promos.

What I do, is that put the DVD into the drive and if I cannot goto the menu directly or FF through the promos, I leave the room and come back later.

I also, do not go to the movie theaters early, so I bypass the commercials they display.

And I have been skipping most commercials on TV, since I got my first TiVo in May 2000, either using FF or after 30 second skip came out, 30 second skip.

When I listened to music at home I listened to MUSIC CHOICE, or in the car, a PBS Channel, with mostly music and a little news.

But I view the car as a different choice, and XM RADIO would be just fine in an auto. Although XM RADIO's definition of commercial free is different that my definition of commercial free. And with this introduction to XM RADIO, I am MORE LIKELY NEVER GOING TO SUBSCRIBE to XM RADIO.

Since most SIRUIS subscribers say that SIRUIS has less chatter, I just might review that service if I feel a need for satellite radio.

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Old 12-19-2005, 04:19 PM   #150 (Print)
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Originally Posted by BlankMan
Can you point me the the FCC rule that defines this? I'd like to see.


I'm not a broadcast lawyer and can't point to the specific rule. But after almost 25 years in broadcasting, I can tell you that years ago we were only allowed to play a certain number of minutes of commercials an hour -- and promos and PSA's didn't count toward the total. In fact, we used to be REQUIRED, by rule, to run a certain amount of PSA's and a certain amount of public affairs/religious programming or risked losing the license. We had to log the number of PSA's we ran, in addition to the paid spots. You could have license renewal problems if you ran too many commercials. The same used to apply to TV, too.

Agina, I'll say that "commercial-free" does not mean, and never has, meant interuption-free." I've worked at stations where we've done commericial-free hours of music, and that meant no screaming car dealers or McDonald's spots, but we's "interupt" to make sure you knew what station you were listening to (you'd be surprised at how many people are clueless). or read a promo for something coming up on the station.

What exactly is it about a human voice on the radio that you find so annoying that you have to work up two threads on the topic? You've never had a DJ you liked, a DJ that made the music listening experience more enjoyable? Sounds like you're a perfect candidate for an iPod, or something similar.
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