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Old 10-23-2003, 12:21 PM   #91 (Print)
Fish Man
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I've got an idea for an even BETTER lawsuit!

The DirecTiVos have a fully functional EIDE port with a standard EIDE connector.

That port is capable of talking to TWO hard drives, a master and a slave, not just one hard drive. Furthermore, the EIDE driver in the Linux kernel used is capable of addressing 137 gigabytes on each hard drives.

Yet those fraudulent THIEVES at DirecTV have the GALL to install one measly 40 gigabyte hard drive!

Let's SUE to force them to use the full theoretical capacity of the EIDE port and Linux EIDE driver software in the box by installing two hard drives of 137 gigabytes or greater so we use the installed hardware fully!

Oh, and they have to keep the price at the same $50 for new subscribers!



(And for the irony impaired: Yes, this entire post was sarcasm. I'm not advocating such a suit! )

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Old 10-23-2003, 12:29 PM   #92 (Print)
directivoetherne
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fish Man
I've got an idea for an even BETTER lawsuit!

The DirecTiVos have a fully functional EIDE port with a standard EIDE connector.

That port is capable of talking to TWO hard drives, a master and a slave, not just one hard drive. Furthermore, the EIDE driver in the Linux kernel used is capable of addressing 137 gigabytes on each hard drives.

Yet those fraudulent THIEVES at DirecTV have the GALL to install one measly 40 gigabyte hard drive!

Let's SUE to force them to use the full theoretical capacity of the EIDE port and Linux EIDE driver software in the box by installing two hard drives of 137 gigabytes or greater so we use the installed hardware fully!

Oh, and they have to keep the price at the same $50 for new subscribers!



(And for the irony impaired: Yes, this entire post was sarcasm. I'm not advocating such a suit! )



Fishman-
I apologize if I was unclear or through you on the wrong track. But it's about what they ADVERTSISE.
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Old 10-23-2003, 12:40 PM   #93 (Print)
Fish Man
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Quote:
Originally posted by directivoetherne
Fishman-
I apologize if I was unclear or through you on the wrong track. But it's about what they ADVERTSISE.


What have they advertised that the product does that it doesn't do?

You claim that the presence of USB ports on the product implies an "advertisement" of certain functions. I disagree. (As do the majority of people posting here, it seems.)

Even if they officially called it a "DirecTV Receiver with a built in Series II TiVo", your case is out of gas.

"Series II" refers to certain hardware features (one of which is, in fact, USB ports). The new DirecTiVos, the ones based on Series II TiVo design, have these features.

The Series II stand alone hardware happens to offer a feature that makes use of the USB ports, namely HMO. The DirecTiVo does not.

The stand alone TiVos also offer multiple recording quality settings, the DirecTiVos do not.

Should the next lawsuit be to force the addition of multiple record quality settings on the DirecTiVo? Doesn't the "TiVo" trademark in the DirecTiVos official name imply an "advertisement" of that feature too?

Or, should we sue TiVo to add Dolby Digital out to the stand alones? Isn't it implied "advertising" that all TiVos should have that feature because the DirecTiVo does?

We could also sue TiVo because the stand alone only has one tuner. The DirecTiVo has two. Is that an implied advertisment that all products bearing the TiVo trademark should have two tuners?

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Old 10-23-2003, 12:45 PM   #94 (Print)
Thespis
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Can I sue the OP for the hour that I've wasted on this nonsense?
After all, the topic implied that there would be some intelligent discussion...
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Old 10-23-2003, 12:46 PM   #95 (Print)
Trent Bates
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(I can't believe I'm going to jump into this thread.)

BUT, who is responsible for telling Mr./Mrs. average consumer that Windows NT 4.0 doesn't support USB?

USB 2.0 ports are USB 2.0 ports by virtue of the hardware that they employ. Because the software doesn't use them at this time, they are not void of that hardware that makes them USB or 2.0. The parts are still there and the specifications that make them USB 2.0 still exists.

I feel that YOUR perception of this concept is the heart of the matter. I understand that you feel that they should be active and I agree. But I don't agree that DirecTV has any reason to fix it right now because a handful of people in their total customer base has signed a petition or wants to sue.
From their perspective, what would the customers do with active USB ports when there aren't any official products for it? Since there are NO official products for any of these units, we should be glad that TiVo is not shutting them all off!
I guess I fall in the "defense of DirecTV" camp here. Maybe they will get around to it, maybe they won't. We don't know what is in the works. We don't know what they have planned regarding upgrades. It's easy for us to play armchair CEO but we aren't there to deal with the big picture that the actual CEOs have to deal with.
You can't please everyone all the time no matter how hard you try. There's always a small faction that doesn't know the big picture and thinks they can do things better.

If I even cared, I wouldn't join in on the lawsuit you propose. I don't view DirecTV as the evil entity that is causing us harm. It the last 8+ years I've been a DirecTV customer, I've generally felt that they were treating me better than the competition would have. To me, they are trying to make the majority of their customers happy.

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Old 10-23-2003, 12:48 PM   #96 (Print)
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If I could sue for the number of times I was in a meaningless conversation a day I would be a very wealthy man.
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Old 10-23-2003, 12:52 PM   #97 (Print)
brianj16426
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Yes I have only one post here. And, frankly, just found this forum this morning. But I've had my DirecTivo for two years now and have been in the computer industry for eleven years. I am quite familiar with the H/W - S/W dilema (i.e. The software needs features that the hardware can't supply economically or the hardware has features that software doesn't support yet). A great current example is that ATI was advertising that their Radeon 9700 Pro (this was when it first came out) was directx 9.0 compatible. Almost 9 months before Microsoft Released Directx 9.0!
If MS had changed the specs on 9.0 would ATI have been liable?
How about the implication that it's any advantage to be 9.0 complatible when, to this day, I can count the number of games that REQUIRE Dx 9 on the thumbs of my right hand.
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Old 10-23-2003, 01:06 PM   #98 (Print)
Fish Man
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Quote:
Originally posted by brianj16426
Yes I have only one post here....


By the way....

I wanted to make sure that you didn't find my "the new guy with one post" comment above to be in any way negative.

On the contrary, it was intended to be a compliment.

You certainly don't have to be a veteran to write intelligently and know what you are talking about!

And, BTW, welcome to the forum!

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Old 10-23-2003, 01:15 PM   #99 (Print)
blhirsch
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Quote:
Originally posted by Thespis
Ok, I'll bite...
What are your damages, and how can the court system make you whole, counselor?


Ok, I'll bite back.

My damages are that I would have paid proportionately less for this product had I known when I bought it what it wouldn't do. Just because I didn't return it doesn't mean that I wasn't misled or didn't overpay for the product.

And on the other side, DirecTV profited from the many customers may similarly have been induced, or assisted by, a list of certain features on the side. This is called unjust enrichment. Bottom line, you can't advertise something or let people make reasonable assumptions that factor into purchasing decisions and then when the customer expects the feature, throw up your hands and say "well, we didn't SPECIFICALLY say those USB ports worked...."

I will be whole a) by giving me the difference between what I would have paid for the product and what I actually did pay (this is a question of fact for a jury--I don't have to have some number in mind right now) or b) by denying DirecTV the proportionate profit they made by advertising a feature, inducing purchases based, in part, upon that feature. (Again, just how much profit can be attributable to DirecTV being able to advertise this feature and yet not deliver it is a question of fact.)

Quote:
Originally posted by Thespis
What's wrong, the box?
You have no standing; you bought a product that told you clearly on the package it came in what it would and wouldn't do!
Judgment for the defendant!


Obivously you haven't seen my box. My HDVR2 box does NOT say "for potential future use." It says "USB Ports." I know, I checked it when I bought it and just now again to be sure. It also says, in the next bullet mark under it "S-Video" and also "Dual Tuners." Does this mean that I was erroneous in assuming that I should be able to hook up s-video and/or use my dual tuners? I don't have to deny myself the entire product (say, by returning it) to be harmed by having bought something that was misleading.

It's called an "implied warranty of fitness for a particular purpose." When a box lists a feature, there is an implied warranty that it will perform that feature. And when the feature is "USB" it implies that there is actual USB functionality out of the box. I never expected to be given home media option. But at the time I bought my DirecTivo, others were using the USB ports for the phone call. I specifically bought the Tivo WITH the USB ports to do just that because I didn't have a phone line near where my home theater is set up. It was a viable option that others were doing and I was not unreasonable by assuming that the tivo I was buying, clearly advertised as having USB ports and not saying were for "potential future use" would support such a function.

So I had to buy a wireless phone jack to make it work. Ok, let's add that to my damages, too.
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Old 10-23-2003, 01:23 PM   #100 (Print)
brianj16426
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First post!

I didn't take it badly.
After all we've all had a first post!

And, thanks for the welcome!
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Old 10-23-2003, 01:29 PM   #101 (Print)
jahf
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There is a word that describes this thread and it's OP ...

Troll.

Let us let this thread die the slow death it deserves.

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My SIG was TOOOOOO long ... instead I posted it all in this thread for people to read.

Wanna know about what is different from a DirecTV DVR with TiVo and a standalone TiVo -OR- newbie links to hack your box -OR- info on improving your NTSC PQ -OR- info on HDTV resolutions -OR- [to be added]?

Go there :)
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Old 10-23-2003, 01:31 PM   #102 (Print)
Fish Man
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Quote:
Originally posted by blhirsch

And on the other side, DirecTV profited from the many customers may similarly have been induced, or assisted by, a list of certain features on the side. This is called unjust enrichment. Bottom line, you can't advertise something or let people make reasonable assumptions that factor into purchasing decisions and then when the customer expects the feature, throw up your hands and say "well, we didn't SPECIFICALLY say those USB ports worked...."


The problem with this argument is that a USB port is such a flexible and generic device. It can do a whole myriad of things (including nothing). You assumed that it would allow you to do specific things with your DirecTiVo. Someone else might assume it would allow them to do something else. Should we sue if they don't do every function we might dream up that they could potentially do?

As the DirecTiVo is a fairly specific purpose consumer device, one certainly could not expect its USB ports to feature the range of uses that they might be used for on a PC. It's going to be a sub-set of potential uses. If your pet desire isn't met by what USB functionality they might eventually offer , do you sue?

You stated that you wish you could use the USB port for connectivity back to TiVo's and DirecTV's servers, eliminating the need for a phone line.

Suppose DirecTV adds a feature wherein you can use the port to link 2 or more DirecTiVos (for viewing recordings stored on one on the other, for instance), but does not add the "replacement for telephone dialup connectivity" that you want.

Do you still have a case? After all, in this case, the USB ports have been enabled to do something.

Most digital cameras connect via USB. I'd like to plug my digital camera into my TiVo's USB port and download my pictures onto its hard drive. Do I get to sue if the DirecTiVo doesn't support this?

How about a scanner? I'd like to hook up my USB scanner to my DirecTiVo and scan in new backgrounds for the menus. Do I get to sue because I can't do this?

And what about a printer? I want to hook up a printer to the USB port and print out my "Now Playing" lists and "to do" lists. Oops! I can't? To my lawyers office I go!

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Old 10-23-2003, 01:38 PM   #103 (Print)
SpankWare
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Ok, i'll bite on this whole "but the USB ports should be used for something" load. Anybody with enough sense to be on this forum should be aware of other similar technologies in this area. Specifically, I'm referring to Ultimate TV, the OTHER DirecTV receiver with DVR functionality *AND* USB ports. Those USB ports do nothing. Other than a "gee, I wish the USB ports worked for ______" I have never heard anybody complain about it especially on a level like this.

blhirsch uses some cute commentary above, but he suffered no damages as a result of his poor assumptions made about the product. He says that the next bullet mentions SVideo. Did it specify SVideo OUT? If not, is he going to sue because he can't record over that SVideo link? Give me a break.

This whole argument is meaningless and started because somebody (not singling out the OP) got their feelings hurt because they made a VERY poor assumption and it didn't work out like he/she wanted.

This whole stupid thing can be summed up with the following:

Caveat Emptor - let the buyer beware

And don't try to say you were mislead by false or misleading advertising, or product packaging. A majority of us who have bothered to comment here find your "reasonable person" claims to lack merit and any judge or jury would do the same.

Oh, and while I'm thinking about it, your unit like mine has USB ports. Though I haven't been able to verify it, I'm extremely confident they work. Does that mean I get to use them for whatever magical use or purpose I think up, or infer their use based on a similar yet clearly different product? Nope!

Move along, nothing to see here.

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Old 10-23-2003, 01:40 PM   #104 (Print)
phone1
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Quote:
Originally posted by blhirsch
It's called an "implied warranty of fitness for a particular purpose." When a box lists a feature, there is an implied warranty that it will perform that feature. And when the feature is "USB" it implies that there is actual USB functionality out of the box. I never expected to be given home media option. But at the time I bought my DirecTivo, others were using the USB ports for the phone call. I specifically bought the Tivo WITH the USB ports to do just that because I didn't have a phone line near where my home theater is set up. It was a viable option that others were doing and I was not unreasonable by assuming that the tivo I was buying, clearly advertised as having USB ports and not saying were for "potential future use" would support such a function.

So I had to buy a wireless phone jack to make it work. Ok, let's add that to my damages, too.
Sorry, you're reaching here. DTiVo is sold as a digital video recorder. Nothing more, nothing less. A purpose it fulfills well. This implied waranty assumes that the buyer is relying on the recommendation of the seller that the product will meet their needs. It also assumes that the seller knows the buyer's needs and generally applies to a more personal transaction. TiVo did not know you were buying your DTiVo for HMO, etc. As already posted many times, no one advertised HMO or broadband access for DTiVos.

You might have better luck with an implied warranty of merchantability claim, since it has visible USB ports. This falls apart though because TiVo isn't sold as a computer, where one would logically expect those ports to do something, since they do provide a function on other similar looking PCs with USB ports. Your best bet would be to claim that it was positioned next to a similar looking TiVo (SA2) with functional USB ports. Still, these ports not being required for TiVo to perform it's primary function and the fact that the products are not interchangeable is a roadblock. Again, sorry. At best expect to have your money refunded, but I can't see how anyone has been "harmed" to the extent that they can seek damages.

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Old 10-23-2003, 01:57 PM   #105 (Print)
blhirsch
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fish Man
The problem with this argument is that a USB port is such a flexible and generic device. It can do a whole myriad of things (including nothing). You assumed that it would allow you to do specific things with your DirecTiVo. Someone else might assume it would allow them to do something else. Should we sue if they don't do every function we might dream up that they could potentially do?


You are correct. This is one fairly cogent argument insofar as merely stating "USB Ports" doesn't state a particular use for those ports. On the other hand, however, this isn't a matter of some sort of theoretical confusion. There's actual confusion here. Actual inducement to buy the product. The feature is actually listed. Actual Tivo customers were actually using them at the time. And actual sales reps were saying that I could do what I asked. This isn't some matter of expecting to hook up my scanner. This is a real function and the import of saying that the unit has USB while knowing that Tivo was simultaneously advertising to other customers that the USB ports work for specific purposes means that there is actual harm being done to those that can't use those functions.

Quote:
As the DirecTiVo is a fairly specific purpose consumer device, one certainly could not expect its USB ports to feature the range of uses that they might be used for on a PC. It's going to be a sub-set of potential uses. If your pet desire isn't met by what USB functionality they might eventually offer , do you sue?

You stated that you wish you could use the USB port for connectivity back to TiVo's and DirecTV's servers, eliminating the need for a phone line.

Suppose DirecTV adds a feature wherein you can use the port to link 2 or more DirecTiVos (for viewing recordings stored on one on the other, for instance), but does not add the "replacement for telephone dialup connectivity" that you want.

Do you still have a case? After all, in this case, the USB ports have been enabled to do something.

Most digital cameras connect via USB. I'd like to plug my digital camera into my TiVo's USB port and download my pictures onto its hard drive. Do I get to sue if the DirecTiVo doesn't support this?


No. why? Because it's not like there were OTHER Tivo customers doing this at the time that led you to believe that you should be able to do this. Yet that's not the case with home media option and usb dialup. These were advertised and widely known and implemented features of Tivo. Not so with the camera.

Quote:
How about a scanner? I'd like to hook up my USB scanner to my DirecTiVo and scan in new backgrounds for the menus. Do I get to sue because I can't do this?


No. See above.

Quote:
And what about a printer? I want to hook up a printer to the USB port and print out my "Now Playing" lists and "to do" lists. Oops! I can't? To my lawyers office I go!


All interesting analogies, but slightly off the mark. Bottom line--my directivo advertises USB Ports. At the same time, Tivo was offering services that used those ports. Not theoretical services. Actual services. DirecTV can't just say "Tivo" and list something that other Tivo users are using and expect those people to be ok with detrimental differences.

And as for the argument that our tivos do things that standalones don't. Well, ok. But at a minimum, it should do what it says it does. If it didn't say USB I might have been more wary because I know the two products differ to SOME degree. But it does say USB Ports. If it does more than the listed features, or somehow has the potential to do more, then that's just icing on the cake. Lots of products do this. But it has to do AT LEAST what it says it does. And coupling the bullet mark on my box that says "USB Ports" with the knowledge that others were doing, as per Tivo advertising and just what I wanted this to do, is all the proof I would need to show inducement to buy based upon the expectation that the USB Ports do SOMETHING, and that something is just what other Tivo customers were doing at the time.

Again, however, let's not forget, I was not the original poster. I wasn't seeking to make this into a lawsuit and I'm still not. But from a litigation perspective, coupled with my own personal experience having purchased the product (two, at this point), I can definitively say that this is something well-suited for class action were someone to be disappointed enough to sue.

And interestingly enough, the second Tivo I purchased, which arrived this week, also does not say "potential future use" like the current boxes say. I obviously got old stock.

If anything, this is an admission of the potential misleading nature of just saying "USB Ports" on the earlier boxes.
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Old 10-23-2003, 02:13 PM   #106 (Print)
blhirsch
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Quote:
Originally posted by phone1
Sorry, you're reaching here. DTiVo is sold as a digital video recorder. Nothing more, nothing less. A purpose it fulfills well. This implied waranty assumes that the buyer is relying on the recommendation of the seller that the product will meet their needs. It also assumes that the seller knows the buyer's needs and generally applies to a more personal transaction. TiVo did not know you were buying your DTiVo for HMO, etc. As already posted many times, no one advertised HMO or broadband access for DTiVos.


The box that says this feature functions as the seller representing that it says it will do what it says it does. Without listing that feature on the box, you're right, I could not have mantained a fitness for a particular purpose argument. But it does, and when it says it has it, it must. Ok, so it has the ports, correctly advertised so far. BUT, the reasonable second step in the assumption is that these ports are going to be used for what other tivo users are using them for. Whether or not HMO and broadband access was advertised specifically for DirecTV is not the point. It was advertised for Tivo, and Tivo was advertised on the box. So maybe you weren't misled, but the average consumer has every right to expect that when something says "Tivo" it means Tivo. I have the right to make reasonable assumptions about what Tivo means. And I don't have to know details about the complicated licensing agreement between DirecTV and Tivo. I just have to reasonably assume that Tivo means Tivo. And I did.

Plus, representatives of DirecTV (agency relationship) told me I could. They even led me to the part of the store where I could also buy the linksys components I needed to hook it up. So there's your actual knowledge.

Quote:
You might have better luck with an implied warranty of merchantability claim, since it has visible USB ports. This falls apart though because TiVo isn't sold as a computer, where one would logically expect those ports to do something, since they do provide a function on other similar looking PCs with USB ports. Your best bet would be to claim that it was positioned next to a similar looking TiVo (SA2) with functional USB ports. Still, these ports not being required for TiVo to perform it's primary function and the fact that the products are not interchangeable is a roadblock. Again, sorry. At best expect to have your money refunded, but I can't see how anyone has been "harmed" to the extent that they can seek damages.


As stated above, once it advertised USB ports, that BECOMES part of the primary purpose of the Tivo. If such an advertisement induces me to change my position (i.e. purchase the product) then that's a primary purpose and I've established entitlement to that warranty. And the next step that Tivos advertised with USB Ports do what standalone Tivos do advertised with USB Ports is perfectly reasonable.

There's still harm--some may have bought a product they can't return. And others want to keep the product but would have paid less. These are all damages.
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Old 10-23-2003, 02:18 PM   #107 (Print)
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Quote:
But it has to do AT LEAST what it says it does. And coupling the bullet mark on my box that says "USB Ports" with the knowledge that others were doing, as per Tivo advertising and just what I wanted this to do, is all the proof I would need to show inducement to buy based upon the expectation that the USB Ports do SOMETHING, and that something is just what other Tivo customers were doing at the time.

It does exactly what it says it does. It records TV. It has USB ports.
The fact that you made an inductive leap and were incorrect does not mean you have been damaged.
As for "implied warranty of fitness for a particular purpose", I would think that DTV (like most other manufacturers) would cover that in the warranty that comes with the product and that it would vary from state to state.
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Old 10-23-2003, 02:27 PM   #108 (Print)
blhirsch
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Quote:
Originally posted by Thespis
It does exactly what it says it does. It records TV. It has USB ports.
The fact that you made an inductive leap and were incorrect does not mean you have been damaged.
As for "implied warranty of fitness for a particular purpose", I would think that DTV (like most other manufacturers) would cover that in the warranty that comes with the product and that it would vary from state to state.


Sigh. Yes, but.... You can't take this transaction out of the general market context. The context was (and still is to a certain extent) that DirecTV with TIVO! (yay, all hail the perky little TV logo with antennae plastered all over the box) offers what Tivo offers and at the time, that was broadband access and home media option. When the boxes say USB Ports and DirecTV knows good and well that adding these very USB ports was what made HMO and broadband access possible for the new generation of standalones, it can't blame the consumer for making the assumption that THAT'S what the ports are there for. Why else advertise it? It can try to wiggle, but the fact remains that the average consumer can make a perfectly valid assumption. And if that assumption induced any of them to buy, voila. Class action.

This is why the class action suit is viable. I didn't say winable. I didn't say I wanted to join it. But viable.
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Old 10-23-2003, 02:37 PM   #109 (Print)
Thespis
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I couldn't find the warranty that came with the hardware, but here's the DirecTV DVR service agreement.
Quote:
DIRECTV may, at its discretion, from time to time change, add or remove features of the DIRECTV DVR Service, change the
service fee for DIRECTV DVR Service or change the terms of this Agreement. DIRECTV reserves the right to discontinue the
DIRECTV DVR Service altogether at any time in its discretion. We will endeavor to notify you of any change that is within our
reasonable control and its effective date. In most cases, this notice will be about one month in advance. You always have the
right to cancel your DIRECTV DVR Service if you do not accept the change (see Section 5 of the DIRECTV Customer Agreement).
If you cancel your DIRECTV DVR Service, a deactivation fee (described in Section 2 of the DIRECTV Customer Agreement) may
apply. Credits, if any, to your account will be posted as described in Section 5 of the DIRECTV Customer Agreement. If you do
not cancel, your continued receipt of DIRECTV DVR Service will constitute your acceptance of the change.

Even if one bought a DirecTivo based solely on the fact that it had USB ports and the erronious assumption that they could be used in the same manner as the SA series 2, one STILL has to sign the service agreement which states clearly that any addition or subtraction of features is at the whim of DirecTV and the buyer has no voice. So, even if a DirecTivo had functioning USB ports and HMO when you bought it, you have no recourse if they discontinue it the next day.
Quote:
This is why the class action suit is viable. I didn't say winable. I didn't say I wanted to join it. But viable.

I understand. I wasn't trying to be combative. Sorry if it came off that way.
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Old 10-23-2003, 02:37 PM   #110 (Print)
Rombaldi
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Quote:
Originally posted by blhirsch
The box that says this feature functions as the seller representing that it There's still harm--some may have bought a product they can't return. And others want to keep the product but would have paid less. These are all damages.


There's one other 'harm'... I still have to maintain a POTS line in order to properly use the TiVo service (avoid the nag screens and get software updates) since other TiVo users can use the USB ports to do the same thing. THIS IS NOT IN REFERENCE TO THE DIRECT TV REUIREMENTS for PPV/Sports packages.. I subscribe to neither..

I was all set to drop the landline (our cell is cheaper for less when factoring in the free longdistance) but now I'm stuck paying a $30/mo 'TiVo Penalty'. Absolutely NOTHING ELSE is plugged in that line.. just the HDVR2. When the class-action does hit.. I want that money either refunded or credited to my DTV account since DTV WILLFULLY disabled the USB connectivity thru ethernet (as shown by hacking the box it can be re-enabled).

The HARDWARE and the FUNCTIONALITY is there, it's just been thwarted.

and before someone says 'just hack the box and be done with it'.. you're wanting me to willfully violate the warranty and servicability of the box (since DTV is under no obligation to support a hacked box) and/or open myself to potential 'DMCA type' litigation???

Also.. while I'm on the soapbox, the mention of trolls is quite accurate.. the Trolls that are in this thread to be-little, demean and insult those who are trying to get something 'done right' and 'fixed'.

Yawn all you want and build your bridges...

Just finish yawning and close your mouth if you have nothing constructive to say...
And either skulk back under your bridges.. or jump...
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Old 10-23-2003, 02:40 PM   #111 (Print)
Rombaldi
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Quote:
Originally posted by Thespis
I couldn't find the warranty that came with the hardware, but here's the DirecTV DVR service agreement.

(text snipped)


Er... was that on the OUTSIDE OF THE BOX?? or INSIDE THE BOX???

The box that you don't get to open till you purchase it.

(can anyone say 'shrink wrap' ELUA??)
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Old 10-23-2003, 02:43 PM   #112 (Print)
Thespis
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Quote:
Er... was that on the OUTSIDE OF THE BOX?? or INSIDE THE BOX???

Actually, it's on the Internet.
http://www.directv.com/learn/pdf/DV...e_Agreement.pdf
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Old 10-23-2003, 02:44 PM   #113 (Print)
Continuum37
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The future is infinite.

I want a pony!

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Old 10-23-2003, 02:46 PM   #114 (Print)
SpankWare
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rombaldi
I was all set to drop the landline (our cell is cheaper for less when factoring in the free longdistance) but now I'm stuck paying a $30/mo 'TiVo Penalty'.


How is a requirement now suddenly a penalty? Correct me if I'm wrong but I seem to recall that any DVR service from DirecTV (TiVo 1/2, UltimateTV) all state the phone line as a requirement.

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Old 10-23-2003, 02:49 PM   #115 (Print)
blhirsch
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Quote:
Originally posted by SpankWare
blhirsch uses some cute commentary above, but he suffered no damages as a result of his poor assumptions made about the product. He says that the next bullet mentions SVideo. Did it specify SVideo OUT? If not, is he going to sue because he can't record over that SVideo link? Give me a break.

This whole argument is meaningless and started because somebody (not singling out the OP) got their feelings hurt because they made a VERY poor assumption and it didn't work out like he/she wanted.


See how easy it is to make assumptions? I'm not a he. I'm a she.

Quote:
This whole stupid thing can be summed up with the following:

Caveat Emptor - let the buyer beware


Yes, and let's let every company who ever advertised something get away saying whatever they want to say beacuse it's the buyer's sole responsibility to be wary. I think not.

Quote:
And don't try to say you were mislead by false or misleading advertising, or product packaging. A majority of us who have bothered to comment here find your "reasonable person" claims to lack merit and any judge or jury would do the same.


My reasonable person is the average consumer. Not the average person on a specialty bulletin board where the average contributor knows much more than joe consumer. So let's not say "any" judge and jury would dismiss it merely because a majority of the people on this board weren't misled.

And I would like to include myself in that group. I'm perfectly happy with my DirecTivo and what it does. I never said I wasn't. I merely said this lawsuit was viable. I didn't say I was going to file it.

Quote:
Oh, and while I'm thinking about it, your unit like mine has USB ports. Though I haven't been able to verify it, I'm extremely confident they work. Does that mean I get to use them for whatever magical use or purpose I think up, or infer their use based on a similar yet clearly different product? Nope!

Move along, nothing to see here.


Indeed.
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Old 10-23-2003, 02:49 PM   #116 (Print)
BrettStah
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The DirecTV DVR agreement states:
Quote:
We generally use local telephone calls to provide the DIRECTV DVR Service. You are responsible for such telephone charges and acknowledge and agree that you shall be solely responsible for all disputes with any telephone company related to the same.

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Old 10-23-2003, 02:50 PM   #117 (Print)
Rombaldi
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Quote:
Originally posted by Thespis
Actually, it's on the Internet.
http://www.directv.com/learn/pdf/DV...e_Agreement.pdf


Then it "dosen't count".. that's akin to the notice of destruction of Earth for the hyperspace bypass in Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy.

"yes, it was on display in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet, stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying 'Beware of the Leopard".

If it's not on the box.. it dosen't exist (in terms of this discussion).
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Old 10-23-2003, 02:51 PM   #118 (Print)
Thespis
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Quote:
If it's not on the box.. it dosen't exist (in terms of this discussion).

Well, I'm glad we're all clear on the rules...
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Old 10-23-2003, 02:52 PM   #119 (Print)
Rombaldi
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Quote:
Originally posted by SpankWare
How is a requirement now suddenly a penalty? Correct me if I'm wrong but I seem to recall that any DVR service from DirecTV (TiVo 1/2, UltimateTV) all state the phone line as a requirement.


Since Tivo Software gave you the ability to use a USB/Net connection..

note we're not talking 4.0 here gang, this is something that in 3.1 that DTV shagged out.. I seem to recall that even TiVoPony was suprised by this.
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Old 10-23-2003, 02:53 PM   #120 (Print)
Rombaldi
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Quote:
Originally posted by BrettStah
The DirecTV DVR agreement states:


ah yes, the agreement IN THE BOX you don't see till you purchase it.
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