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Old 10-23-2003, 02:54 PM   #121 (Print)
aristoBrat
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rombaldi
Then it "dosen't count".. that's akin to the notice of destruction of Earth for the hyperspace bypass in Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy.

"yes, it was on display in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet, stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying 'Beware of the Leopard".

If it's not on the box.. it dosen't exist (in terms of this discussion).

Really?

Because when you setup your DVR, one of the screens specifically pointed out the Agreement and you had to press Select to agree to it before you could contiue.
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Old 10-23-2003, 02:54 PM   #122 (Print)
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Since Tivo Software gave you the ability to use a USB/Net connection..

That's not on my box.
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Old 10-23-2003, 03:00 PM   #123 (Print)
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Then once you open the box, and read the agreement, and find out it won't hook up to your USB massager, then bring it back to the store. You have 30 days. Simple enough, huh?

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Old 10-23-2003, 03:01 PM   #124 (Print)
Rombaldi
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Quote:
Originally posted by aristoBrat
Really?

Because when you setup your DVR, one of the screens specifically pointed out the Agreement and you had to press Select to agree to it before you could contiue.


You mean after you had purchased it and didn't know before purchase, right?
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Old 10-23-2003, 03:06 PM   #125 (Print)
aristoBrat
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rombaldi
You mean after you had purchased it and didn't know before purchase, right?

Right.

I think it tells you to take it back for a refund if you don't agree to it.

I've got a picture of it at home, .. I'll post it later.
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Old 10-23-2003, 03:08 PM   #126 (Print)
Thespis
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See, the problem I have is that the people that profess to have been harmed by the lack of functioning USB ports would have to know a great deal about Tivo in the first place. If they have done enough research to know that Tivo has HMO and USB connectivity, is it believable that they wouldn't have come across the fact that the DirecTivo has non-functioning USB ports?
Even if one believes that the buyer was unaware of the non-functioning USB ports and discovers the fact after purchase, the retailer will make you whole by refunding your money. If you choose to keep the product, you agree to the DVR service agreement.
Isn't this fun?
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Old 10-23-2003, 03:27 PM   #127 (Print)
Rombaldi
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Quote:
Originally posted by Thespis
See, the problem I have is that the people that profess to have been harmed by the lack of functioning USB ports would have to know a great deal about Tivo in the first place. If they have done enough research to know that Tivo has HMO and USB connectivity, is it believable that they wouldn't have come across the fact that the DirecTivo has non-functioning USB ports?


Yeah, like even TiVoPony was unaware that the USB's had been disabled until it was mentioned here...

and HMO is not the friggin issue... we're talking a function of 3.1, the SAME TiVo 3.1 running on every Series 2 box (and if you are going to start that harrange that the HDVR2 isn't a Series 2,get a reality check.. it's on vendors web sites and such calling it a Series 2.. )
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Old 10-23-2003, 03:39 PM   #128 (Print)
Thespis
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Quote:
(and if you are going to start that harrange that the HDVR2 isn't a Series 2,get a reality check.. it's on vendors web sites and such calling it a Series 2.. )

Quote:
If it's not on the box.. it dosen't exist (in terms of this discussion).
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Old 10-23-2003, 03:41 PM   #129 (Print)
Rombaldi
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Quote:
Originally posted by Thespis
See, the problem I have is that the people that profess to have been harmed by the lack of functioning USB ports would have to know a great deal about Tivo in the first place. If they have done enough research to know that Tivo has HMO and USB connectivity, is it believable that they wouldn't have come across the fact that the DirecTivo has non-functioning USB ports?


Yeah, like even TiVoPony was unaware that the USB's had been disabled until it was mentioned here...

and HMO is not the friggin issue... we're talking a function of 3.1, the SAME TiVo 3.1 running on every Series 2 box (and if you are going to start that harrange that the HDVR2 isn't a Series 2,get a reality check.. it's on vendors web sites and such calling it a Series 2.. )
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Old 10-23-2003, 03:41 PM   #130 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by blhirsch
Plus, representatives of DirecTV (agency relationship) told me I could.
That'll hold up well in court.

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Old 10-23-2003, 03:43 PM   #131 (Print)
Rombaldi
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Quote:
Originally posted by Thespis
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If it's not on the box.. it dosen't exist (in terms of this discussion).
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Quote:
"The TiVo logo and TiVo are registered trademarks of TiVo, Inc. 'TV Your Way, the Series 2 logo, Thumbs Up, Thumbs Down, Trick Play, Season Pass and Wishlist are trademarks of TiVo, Inc."


On the box...

care for some Grey Poupon with that Fillet of Sole?
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Old 10-23-2003, 03:50 PM   #132 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rombaldi
Since Tivo Software gave you the ability to use a USB/Net connection..

note we're not talking 4.0 here gang, this is something that in 3.1 that DTV shagged out.. I seem to recall that even TiVoPony was suprised by this.


Ahh yes, but my unit doesn't run Tivo Software and neither does yours. Our units (those in question) are running DirecTV's software, featuring TiVo intellectual property but written specifically for DirecTV. In exactly the same way that TiVo's software is built upon Linux. It doesn't have to have all the features of Linux, just the parts they want. Just like DirecTV's DVR built with TiVo technology.

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Old 10-23-2003, 03:51 PM   #133 (Print)
Rombaldi
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Quote:
Originally posted by phone1
That'll hold up well in court.


Matter of fact, yes it would... if a Best Buy drone told you that you could hook it up to the USB, and there was nothing ON DISPLAY on ON THE OUTSIDE of the box to dispute it, then both DTV and BB would be liable (Best Buy is acting as the authorized agent for DirecTV).

spend a little time researching this before you start slamming those of us who have... my ghods, a real legal person has chimmed in here (not a 'thinks they know it all') and said that this DOES have merit (not that they would file it, but).
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Old 10-23-2003, 03:53 PM   #134 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by BrettStah
Then once you open the box, and read the agreement, and find out it won't hook up to your USB massager, then bring it back to the store. You have 30 days. Simple enough, huh?
I believe the USB massager WILL work with the USB ports on the HDVR2. The ports are powered, just not software enabled. Somebody else said that they were using the ports to power little lights which plugged into the USB ports.

-Mike

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Old 10-23-2003, 03:54 PM   #135 (Print)
Rombaldi
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Quote:
Originally posted by SpankWare
Ahh yes, but my unit doesn't run Tivo Software and neither does yours. Our units (those in question) are running DirecTV's software, featuring TiVo intellectual property but written specifically for DirecTV. In exactly the same way that TiVo's software is built upon Linux. It doesn't have to have all the features of Linux, just the parts they want. Just like DirecTV's DVR built with TiVo technology.


Sorry Charlie, that dosen't wash...

for how come the 'hack' to enable the USB (partially) involves taking the USB driver from a 'standard' Series 2 and moving it to the HDVR2 (more involved). That implies that AT THAT LEVEL the software is the same (obviously the ability to access the DTV Tuners, etc. is unique to the HDVR2/Series 2 boxes), but at the highest level, it's the same frigging code.
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Old 10-23-2003, 03:54 PM   #136 (Print)
SpankWare
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rombaldi
Yeah, like even TiVoPony was unaware that the USB's had been disabled until it was mentioned here...

and HMO is not the friggin issue... we're talking a function of 3.1, the SAME TiVo 3.1 running on every Series 2 box (and if you are going to start that harrange that the HDVR2 isn't a Series 2,get a reality check.. it's on vendors web sites and such calling it a Series 2.. )


You forget that a DirecTV DVR and a TiVo Series 2 are completely different animals, and no they do not run the same software. I would be VERY surprised to find DirecTV specific code (you know, the bits that handle the DirecTV stream?) was found in a "stand alone" series 2 machine. I would be equally surprised to find much of the mpeg encoding features found in a "stand alone" series 2 machine to exist on a DirecTV DVR.

These boxes are different. They are Series 2, in that they utilize much of the same hardware, but you can't lump them both together just because they use the same processor.

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Old 10-23-2003, 03:55 PM   #137 (Print)
aristoBrat
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rombaldi
Yeah, like even TiVoPony was unaware that the USB's had been disabled until it was mentioned here...

and HMO is not the friggin issue... we're talking a function of 3.1, the SAME TiVo 3.1 running on every Series 2 box (and if you are going to start that harrange that the HDVR2 isn't a Series 2,get a reality check.. it's on vendors web sites and such calling it a Series 2.. )

I don't see why the USB being disabled was a surprise.

Since DirecTV is responsible for DirecTiVo customer support, why would they want to deal with 'daily TiVo calls over USB/network' issues when DirecTV's requirement has always been that a phone line is required?

I can see DirecTV enabling the USB ports when they have another feature that requires it, but their decision to not enable them for the daily phone call (from a business point-of-view) makes some sense to me.
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Old 10-23-2003, 03:58 PM   #138 (Print)
Thespis
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What does this
Quote:
"The TiVo logo and TiVo are registered trademarks of TiVo, Inc. 'TV Your Way, the Series 2 logo, Thumbs Up, Thumbs Down, Trick Play, Season Pass and Wishlist are trademarks of TiVo, Inc."

have to do with this?
Quote:
(and if you are going to start that harrange that the HDVR2 isn't a Series 2,get a reality check.. it's on vendors web sites and such calling it a Series 2.. )

Where in the trademark statement does it say that the HDVR2 is a series 2 Tivo?
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Old 10-23-2003, 03:59 PM   #139 (Print)
aristoBrat
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rombaldi
a real legal person has chimmed in here (not a 'thinks they know it all') and said that this DOES have merit (not that they would file it, but).

Yeah, and we'll all keep arguing about this (restating the same points) until we get bored/tired with the thread, which will definately happen a helluva lot sooner than anyone forcing DirecTV to enable the USB ports (for the daily call, anyhow)
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Old 10-23-2003, 03:59 PM   #140 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rombaldi
Matter of fact, yes it would... if a Best Buy drone told you that you could hook it up to the USB, and there was nothing ON DISPLAY on ON THE OUTSIDE of the box to dispute it, then both DTV and BB would be liable (Best Buy is acting as the authorized agent for DirecTV).

spend a little time researching this before you start slamming those of us who have... my ghods, a real legal person has chimmed in here (not a 'thinks they know it all') and said that this DOES have merit (not that they would file it, but).


Why don't you guys quit whining and file your lawsuit already!

If it has so much merit, FILE!!!!

I really want to watch.

And by the way, if I were able to sue every time a pimple-faced CE store sales drone told me some CE product had a feature it didn't actually have, I'd be so wealthy that Bill Gates would be my butler!

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Old 10-23-2003, 04:01 PM   #141 (Print)
SpankWare
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Originally posted by Rombaldi
Sorry Charlie, that dosen't wash...

for how come the 'hack' to enable the USB (partially) involves taking the USB driver from a 'standard' Series 2 and moving it to the HDVR2 (more involved). That implies that AT THAT LEVEL the software is the same (obviously the ability to access the DTV Tuners, etc. is unique to the HDVR2/Series 2 boxes), but at the highest level, it's the same frigging code.


So you've proven they have the same cpu architecture, same operating system and same USB chipset. Were you trying to make any OTHER point with that? Those similarities will exist since they run the same OS and the same architecture. But that still doesn't change the fact they run VERY different code for many other parts of the DVR/"TiVo" functionality.

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Old 10-23-2003, 04:01 PM   #142 (Print)
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Being a series two does not imply a software feature set. When the first SA Series 2 TiVos were released, they did not have the ability to run HMO, but they were still Series 2 TiVos.

-Mike

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Old 10-23-2003, 04:02 PM   #143 (Print)
Rombaldi
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fish Man
Why don't you guys quit whining and file your lawsuit already!
If it has so much merit, FILE!!!!
I really want to watch.


If you don't care, why do you keep inserting your hateful commentary in this discussion????
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Old 10-23-2003, 04:04 PM   #144 (Print)
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Maybe because when some people are stretching so hard to make their point, it's just really hard not to comment?!
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Old 10-23-2003, 04:06 PM   #145 (Print)
Rombaldi
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Originally posted by SLOmike
Being a series two does not imply a software feature set. When the first SA Series 2 TiVos were released, they did not have the ability to run HMO, but they were still Series 2 TiVos.


Correct Mike, and since the enabling of the USB ports IS PRESENT IN THE 3.1 SOFTWARE on 'other' Series 2's, and the USB ports CAN BE ENABLED by moving a file and 'other things' (which for decorum I won't mention), to all but the most pigheaded that want to continue to try to argue 'they aren't the same thing' it's quite obvious that the USB ports could be turned on tomorrow with little or no effort on DTV's part..

AND ANOTHER POINT... the DTV call and the TiVo call ARE NOT THE SAME THING. TECHNICALLY the TiVo call (which could be routed to the USB ports) DOES NOT GO TO DIRECTV, it goes to TIVO servers. TIVO is collecting the data from that daily call is it not??
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Old 10-23-2003, 04:08 PM   #146 (Print)
Rombaldi
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Originally posted by aristoBrat
Maybe because when some people are stretching so hard to make their point, it's just really hard not to comment?!


I know.. they keep fighting so hard to find something wrong with the arguement and just can't.. and they have to resort to 'Stop whining and file the suit'...

really good discussion there..
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Old 10-23-2003, 04:10 PM   #147 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rombaldi
Sorry Charlie, that dosen't wash...

for how come the 'hack' to enable the USB (partially) involves taking the USB driver from a 'standard' Series 2 and moving it to the HDVR2 (more involved). That implies that AT THAT LEVEL the software is the same (obviously the ability to access the DTV Tuners, etc. is unique to the HDVR2/Series 2 boxes), but at the highest level, it's the same frigging code.


I was part of a team that designed a cellular transceiver that runs embedded Linux.

As a result it has a great deal of code, peripheral chipsets, and drivers in common with <drumroll> a TIVO!!

So, by your logic, people should be able to sue my employer because they can't set season passes and record TV programs on that cellular transceiver!

Like a TiVo, the end user could theoretically "hack" some additional functionality into that transceiver. However, I doubt they could sue us for not including the functionality they hacked in in the first place.

(Oh, and by the way, labeling an opinion that differs from yours as "hateful" tends to imply that you are running out of logical arguments for your opinion...)

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Last edited by Fish Man : 10-23-2003 at 04:13 PM.
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Old 10-23-2003, 04:15 PM   #148 (Print)
Rombaldi
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Originally posted by Fish Man
So, by your logic, people should be able to sue my employer because they can't set season passes and record TV programs on that cellular transceiver!


Only if you used the TiVo name on it....

Quote:
(Oh, and by the way, labeling an opinion that differs from yours as "hateful" tends to imply that you are running out of logical arguments for your opinion...)


Its the best word I can use without a moderator getting on my butt, but that rather inane, ludicrous and completely specious comparision you just made shows your intent better than anything I could do
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Old 10-23-2003, 04:16 PM   #149 (Print)
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Hey, according to SLOMike in this post:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-v...308#post1472308

The USB ports work! They may not do what you want them or expect them to do, but they are active, working USB ports.

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Old 10-23-2003, 04:17 PM   #150 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rombaldi
I know.. they keep fighting so hard to find something wrong with the arguement and just can't.. and they have to resort to 'Stop whining and file the suit'...

really good discussion there..


I was serious.

You say you have confidence that DirecTiVo owners have a viable suit against DirecTV.

If that's really so, why don't you act on it and keep us apprised as to how it goes?

The question, "why don't you file it?" was not rhetorical! Why don't you?

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