TiVo Community Forum

TiVo Community Forum Archive 2
Covering threads with a last post date between
July 1, 2004 and December 31, 2005.
THIS IS A READ ONLY SITE
 


 

SEARCH  |  ARCHIVE 1 MAIN SITE

 
Forum Jump
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 01-25-2004, 05:16 PM   #121 (Print)
Stradlingp
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Nice, France
Posts: 38
Good idea Cyril!

I'll add that to my list of tests. That will identify if it is a power problem!

I'm glad to see that the people in this forum are as helpful and knowlegeable as ever.

BTW have you changed your photo since I lasted posted here ( a long time ago) I'm sure you looked a lot younger then
Stradlingp is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 01-25-2004, 06:27 PM   #122 (Print)
cyril
Registered User
 
cyril's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: London, Baker St. UK
Posts: 706
Yes, I have changed my photo.

Got a new gf, so have aged a lot since last year

__________________
TiVo saves you the one thing you can't buy -TIME.
cyril is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 01-26-2004, 07:10 AM   #123 (Print)
jeremy Parsons
Very Advanced Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Surrey
Posts: 127
Having read the current posts and also the thread on Silcondust )as I am in the throws of purchasing a Cachecard) as stated its down to powerdrain which works the PSU harder which corrupts the clock pulsef ro the audio decoder.

The reason people have different results in the UK is possibly down to slight difference tolerences in PSU's but also a combination of that AND the type and power requirements of the hard disks used in these systems.

It appears that the the power drain from the hard disks is the X factor.
(Motherboard aswell???)

It would be nice to know who has working / nonworking systems ,
a) motherboard type
b) Memory in use
c) Hard disks , model no & manufacturer & power requirements for each

This might allow some reasonable figure to estimate (not guarantee) if you are likley to have a problem running cachecard

__________________
Tivo1 2 x 200GB Segate Cachecard + Tivoweb + NTL Digital
Tivo2 2 x120GB Samsung Cachecard + Tivoweb + DTT 36 Inch Panasonic TV + Philips DVDR 985 (broken)
Tivo3 + Turbonet (Broken )
jeremy Parsons is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 01-26-2004, 07:39 AM   #124 (Print)
sanderton
TiVoer since 11/2000
 
sanderton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Somerset, England
Posts: 5,979
Working system:

a) I haven't checked my capacitor colour yet, but it's a 6023
b) 512MB 168pin PC133 16chip 64x4 3.3v Single-Banked nonECC SDRAM DIMM (hope that means more to you than it does to me!)
c) Samsung 120Gb 5400rpm + original Maxtor 40Gb

__________________
Stuart

Author of EndPad, DailyMail and others now run by other generous souls. Setup: MCE hub feeds 3 x 360s from 2 x DVB-T tuners and 1 x Sky via TiVo+eTivo. Sky+HD coming 22/5.
sanderton is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 01-26-2004, 08:42 AM   #125 (Print)
LampyDave
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Cardiff, UK
Posts: 52
Quote:
Originally posted by jeremy Parsons
It would be nice to know who has working / nonworking systems ,
a) motherboard type
b) Memory in use
c) Hard disks , model no & manufacturer & power requirements for each


Jeremy,

FWIW my system seems to be working OK but needs booting once from cold, and then a soft reset either through telnet or menus to get the caching to work OK. The first boot gives an error.

System information:
UK model 6020 build
2.5.5-01-1-023 software
2 x 120 GB Samsung 1203N drives - 7200rpm drives.
Memory: Crucial UK - CT64M64S4D7E

Memory details from their site:
Module Size: 512MB
Package: 168-pin DIMM
Feature: SDRAM, PC133
Configuration: 64Meg x 64
DIMM Type: Unbuffered
Error Checking: Non-parity
Speed: 7.5ns
Voltage: 3.3V
SDRAM Timings:CL=2

Voltages across cap on Cachecard :
3.34V dc (with a 6.4mV ac ripple)

Voltages on multiway connector to motherboard:
3.34V dc
5.02V dc
11.87V dc

My unit is one of the ones with the little brown caps on the motherboard - but as yet I have not had the sound issues. I did have loss of sound before updating the drivers so may just have been lucky since.

My guess with the failure on cold start is that the hard drives spinning up are loading the PSU too much. Samsung's site states that they take slightly over 30 Watts each on spin up, and about 15W running. So 2 drives running up from cold are sucking an extra 30W which well could be enough to drag it down. Obviously with a soft reset the drives are already at speed so it doesn't apply.

Cheers,

Dave
LampyDave is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 01-26-2004, 02:28 PM   #126 (Print)
jeremy Parsons
Very Advanced Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Surrey
Posts: 127
Interesting , I will try and get the specs for the origional 40GB Drive and see what the powerdrain is , I have some work to do tonight a powercut resulted in my tivo1 hosing the /var partition and as it had LJ's verison of tivoweb and all my latest mods I have some work to do to restore all the mods.

Hopefully with some info from others we will all be able to see a trend fo rthe UK configs , I wonder what the startup power for the 5400RPM drivers are , probably less

__________________
Tivo1 2 x 200GB Segate Cachecard + Tivoweb + NTL Digital
Tivo2 2 x120GB Samsung Cachecard + Tivoweb + DTT 36 Inch Panasonic TV + Philips DVDR 985 (broken)
Tivo3 + Turbonet (Broken )
jeremy Parsons is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 01-26-2004, 05:09 PM   #127 (Print)
sparkstack
New Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: St Neots
Posts: 9
According to a datasheet at Maxtor, the Quantum LCT20 40Gb drive that came with my Tivo has the following specs:

Power Specifications

Nominal Voltage (V) +5/+12
Voltage Margin (%) ±5/±10

Typical Power Draw (W)
Idle <5.0
Operating* <8.5

**Peak Current (mA on +5/+12 V) 700/1,700

* Operating is defined as
40% seek, 30% read, 20% active, and 10% write.

**Peak Current quoted on the drive itself is 600/900mA at +5v and +12v respectively.

Interestingly enough (well for me anyway) the drive is only a 4500 rpm drive. If i had known that at the time i wouldn't have swapped it for a 7200rpm drive....

____________

Now the drive i have currently in thr Tivo is a Maxtor Diamond Max 9, part number 6Y120L0

The following is the power requirements for this family of drives:

Power Requirements for 60/80/120/160GB

MODE........................12V (MA).....5V (MA)..............POWER (W)
Spin-up (peak).............509.3........853.2......................2 2.4
Seek............................602.8.........816.5......... ............11.3
Read/Write..................410.8.........669.9.................. .....8.3
Idle..............................322.6.........650.4....... .................7.1
Standby.........................36.6.........123.9.......... ..............1.1
Sleep.............................36.9.........122.7........ ................1.1

__________________
Single 120Gb drive, Cachcard & Tivoweb. Working without problems....

Last edited by sparkstack : 01-26-2004 at 05:28 PM.
sparkstack is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 01-26-2004, 06:48 PM   #128 (Print)
jeremy Parsons
Very Advanced Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Surrey
Posts: 127
Ok having looked at my two Tivos the Maxtor systems has a peak power draw of 23.7 Watts dropping to 5.2W for seek

Is anyone else running a Tivo with 2 x 120GB Maxtors at 5400RPM , these draw slightly less power than the 7200 drives so cachecard might work , can anyone confirm or deny.

PS thanks to all those who posted

__________________
Tivo1 2 x 200GB Segate Cachecard + Tivoweb + NTL Digital
Tivo2 2 x120GB Samsung Cachecard + Tivoweb + DTT 36 Inch Panasonic TV + Philips DVDR 985 (broken)
Tivo3 + Turbonet (Broken )
jeremy Parsons is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 01-27-2004, 05:47 AM   #129 (Print)
kitschcamp
Tweaked and poked
 
kitschcamp's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Derby, England & Malmö, Sweden.
Posts: 1,148
Send a message via ICQ to kitschcamp Send a message via MSN to kitschcamp Send a message via Yahoo to kitschcamp
My Tivo *had* a 120GB Maxtor 5400RPM in it. I couldn't get sound with it.

It now has a 160GB Samsung 7200RPM and still doesn't get sound.

Is it worth trying to power the hard drive external to the tivo and seeing if that makes any difference?

__________________
Stephen

SkyEye, 160Gb+120Gb, CcheCrd 512MB, twkd recrdng sttngs, TiVoWeb and APC Back-UPS 500.
Tivo Mods. Fixed ui.itcl module
kitschcamp is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 01-27-2004, 11:35 AM   #130 (Print)
jeremy Parsons
Very Advanced Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Surrey
Posts: 127
In Short , Yes (ish) , according to Jafa the extra load on the power supply results in the switching on the PSU to increasing resulting in a clock corruption , it *should* bypass the problem , however the tolerences on the power supply seem to differ , another option is to try a different tivo PSU if you have access to one or better a differnt model of tivo , can you let us know which model your using

It will also be interesting to see if those who have a working tivo start to get issues when the tivo gets older and the psu weakens. Its also difficult to tell if particular UK batches are more susceptible than others

In which case I don't know if you can
a) get beefier power supply
b) will it fit in tivo's case

If so this might be a work around for those not interested in main CPU soldering / modification.

__________________
Tivo1 2 x 200GB Segate Cachecard + Tivoweb + NTL Digital
Tivo2 2 x120GB Samsung Cachecard + Tivoweb + DTT 36 Inch Panasonic TV + Philips DVDR 985 (broken)
Tivo3 + Turbonet (Broken )
jeremy Parsons is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 01-27-2004, 11:40 AM   #131 (Print)
kitschcamp
Tweaked and poked
 
kitschcamp's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Derby, England & Malmö, Sweden.
Posts: 1,148
Send a message via ICQ to kitschcamp Send a message via MSN to kitschcamp Send a message via Yahoo to kitschcamp
Quote:
Originally posted by jeremy Parsons
In Short , Yes (ish) , according to Jafa the extra load on the power supply results in the switching on the PSU to increasing resulting in a clock corruption , it *should* bypass the problem , however the tolerences on the power supply seem to differ , another option is to try a different tivo PSU if you have access to one


I wish!

Quote:

or better a differnt model of tivo , can you let us know which model your using


As I've said several times in this thread already - a 6023, the same as LJs who doesn't work and Sanderton's whose does. The model number doesn't seem to make much difference in this instance. Also my 6023 will work with a 128MB DIMM, but IIRC LJs wouldn't.

Quote:

It will also be interesting to see if those who have a working tivo start to get issues when the tivo gets older and the psu weakens. Its also difficult to tell if particular UK batches are more susceptible than others

In which case I don't know if you can
a) get beefier power supply
b) will it fit in tivo's case

If so this might be a work around for those not interested in main CPU soldering / modification.


I can't see many people being that interested in this as a solution, hence wondering about an external supply.

__________________
Stephen

SkyEye, 160Gb+120Gb, CcheCrd 512MB, twkd recrdng sttngs, TiVoWeb and APC Back-UPS 500.
Tivo Mods. Fixed ui.itcl module
kitschcamp is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 01-27-2004, 11:47 AM   #132 (Print)
jeremy Parsons
Very Advanced Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Surrey
Posts: 127
Its worth a try , as a test you could use a PC case and use a power cable extension to see if it works , you could use your desktop or even an old crappy PC power suppy for the test , the issue in production would be the noise of the fan.

As I have a dead Tivo if this works then I could use the PSU on the dead tivo just to power the external hard drives , you might be able to pick up a broken tivo with a working PSU cheap and just use the 2nd one to power the Tivo hard disks , this would resolve the noise issue.

I believe you should be able to pick up a dead tivo for about 50 quid they stack quite nicely as my tivo 1 & 2 do.

__________________
Tivo1 2 x 200GB Segate Cachecard + Tivoweb + NTL Digital
Tivo2 2 x120GB Samsung Cachecard + Tivoweb + DTT 36 Inch Panasonic TV + Philips DVDR 985 (broken)
Tivo3 + Turbonet (Broken )
jeremy Parsons is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 01-27-2004, 11:59 AM   #133 (Print)
cyril
Registered User
 
cyril's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: London, Baker St. UK
Posts: 706
I have a lot of spare TiVos and PSUs but no time to try this out yet... sorry.

I've got a spare PC PSU you can have for £2 plus shipping costs.

Still haven't finished programming the MX-500 (MX-700 coming soon) and two of my Maxtor drives have just been RMA'd..., tivoweb now hosed on TiVo 3,7 and 9 ... mutter ..grumble ...

__________________
TiVo saves you the one thing you can't buy -TIME.
cyril is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 01-27-2004, 12:12 PM   #134 (Print)
sanderton
TiVoer since 11/2000
 
sanderton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Somerset, England
Posts: 5,979
Just ordered a second one as the slownes of the un-Cachecarded TiVo is too much to bear in comparison!

The one it's going in is as old as TiVos get pretty much, an 601F in continuous use for over 3 years, so the "age of PSU" theory should get put to the test!

I can't test it with my existing Cachecard as I have to change the dodgy HD first.

__________________
Stuart

Author of EndPad, DailyMail and others now run by other generous souls. Setup: MCE hub feeds 3 x 360s from 2 x DVB-T tuners and 1 x Sky via TiVo+eTivo. Sky+HD coming 22/5.
sanderton is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 01-27-2004, 02:14 PM   #135 (Print)
healeydave
tivoland.com
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Worcester
Posts: 538
Owe to have a ram stick that gets as far as giving loss of sound :-)
If I did, I'd try the load theory as I have boat loads of new tivo psu's

I know a bit about electronics but I'm certainly no expert!
I find it hard to believe that the tolerances are so close that in certain circumstances, a measly old sdram is pushing it over the edge!

__________________
Keeping the dream alive.
healeydave is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 01-27-2004, 02:29 PM   #136 (Print)
jeremy Parsons
Very Advanced Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Surrey
Posts: 127
I believe that its combination of the network connection , bigger hard disk AND the cachecard memory that pushes it over the limit , your 2 x 200GB system should be totally OTT.

If you get decent RAM use the second TIVO to power the drives and see if it resolves the sound issue.

__________________
Tivo1 2 x 200GB Segate Cachecard + Tivoweb + NTL Digital
Tivo2 2 x120GB Samsung Cachecard + Tivoweb + DTT 36 Inch Panasonic TV + Philips DVDR 985 (broken)
Tivo3 + Turbonet (Broken )
jeremy Parsons is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 01-27-2004, 02:29 PM   #137 (Print)
pahunt
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Somerset, England
Posts: 1,619
Well I've just installed my cachecard into my 6022 (less than a year old) with the same memory as Sanderton and after about 15 minutes the sound goes I've just installed 128MB that I had lying around so I'll wait and see what that does.

Just to make things even better I get no network link either but I'm guessing this could be down to a dodgy cable. Is there anything else (apart from a broken card obviously) that would cause the network part not to work?

__________________
Paul

120GB 6022 | Cachecard | Freeview
pahunt is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 01-27-2004, 02:48 PM   #138 (Print)
pahunt
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Somerset, England
Posts: 1,619
Just noticed that Jafa is reporting that he has found the problem (last post on this page in the Cachecard Forum)

Hopefully this will result in an "easy" fix but we'll have to wait and see.

__________________
Paul

120GB 6022 | Cachecard | Freeview
pahunt is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 01-27-2004, 03:14 PM   #139 (Print)
iankb
Registered User
 
iankb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Reading, UK
Posts: 5,205
Quote:
Originally posted by healeydave
I know a bit about electronics but I'm certainly no expert!
I find it hard to believe that the tolerances are so close that in certain circumstances, a measly old sdram is pushing it over the edge!
I doubt that it is a limitation of the PSU, since the variability of one or two drives of various makes and sizes would have been far more likely to have caused problems than the size of a memory DIMM. I assume that it is the power lines through the motherboard, and any in-built stabilisation that is causing the problem. But then, I'm no expert either.

__________________
Ian.

For gold text on leather in TiVoWeb, try the redbook, bluebook, greenbook and blackbook themes, now updated with button menus
iankb is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 01-27-2004, 03:39 PM   #140 (Print)
sanderton
TiVoer since 11/2000
 
sanderton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Somerset, England
Posts: 5,979
From what Jafa is saying, it looks like a hardware mod will be needed - I don't see how he can fix that in software,

__________________
Stuart

Author of EndPad, DailyMail and others now run by other generous souls. Setup: MCE hub feeds 3 x 360s from 2 x DVB-T tuners and 1 x Sky via TiVo+eTivo. Sky+HD coming 22/5.
sanderton is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 01-27-2004, 04:50 PM   #141 (Print)
pahunt
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Somerset, England
Posts: 1,619
Quote:
Originally posted by sanderton
From what Jafa is saying, it looks like a hardware mod will be needed - I don't see how he can fix that in software,


I was trying to be optimistic

But the good news that my 128MB stick seems to be working OK (fingers crossed, trying not to tempt fate ) and the speed improvement still seems really good. Tivoweb flies along even through a serial cable

__________________
Paul

120GB 6022 | Cachecard | Freeview
pahunt is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 01-27-2004, 06:11 PM   #142 (Print)
bobnick
Advanced Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: London
Posts: 858
Quote:
Originally posted by sanderton
From what Jafa is saying, it looks like a hardware mod will be needed - I don't see how he can fix that in software,


Is there any chance of a 'revision b' cachecard being made?
bobnick is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 01-27-2004, 06:19 PM   #143 (Print)
sparkstack
New Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: St Neots
Posts: 9
I fail to see what that will do.

The card doesn't cause the problem. The problem is power related.

The fix is to the main motherboard of the Tivo. Unfortunatly.

__________________
Single 120Gb drive, Cachcard & Tivoweb. Working without problems....
sparkstack is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 01-27-2004, 08:24 PM   #144 (Print)
iankb
Registered User
 
iankb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Reading, UK
Posts: 5,205
It sounds like Pacelink are soon going to find a new upgrade that they can charge for.

__________________
Ian.

For gold text on leather in TiVoWeb, try the redbook, bluebook, greenbook and blackbook themes, now updated with button menus
iankb is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 01-28-2004, 12:40 PM   #145 (Print)
JMB
New Member
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Surrey, UK
Posts: 17
Quote:
Originally posted by jeremy Parsons

It would be nice to know who has working / nonworking systems ,
a) motherboard type
b) Memory in use
c) Hard disks , model no & manufacturer & power requirements for each


My system is working fine:

a) Not sure on that but it's a 6020.
b) Crucial 512MB 64Mx64 PC133 SL2 (CT64M64S4D7E.16LT)
c) 1x Maxtor 120GB 7200RPM DiamondMax Plus 9, 1x Maxtor 120GB 5400RPM DiamondMax 16

Jason
JMB is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 01-28-2004, 02:09 PM   #146 (Print)
TiVoMango
One can short
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 56
Having kept a beedy on this thread, I have a question:

The cause is now thought to be power related, would not a second drive pull more load from the PSU than the cachecard?
Because the cachecard draws its' power from the TiVo MLB, it takes the power through the TiVo board out-of-spec giving the problems.
So, rather like those new fangled AGP graphics cards or firewire cards, I have seen a socket to add power to these cards directly from the PSU.
Would this cure the problems? (ok, with a redesigned cachecard and a power cable adapter).
TiVoMango is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 01-28-2004, 04:26 PM   #147 (Print)
sanderton
TiVoer since 11/2000
 
sanderton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Somerset, England
Posts: 5,979
It's not the volume of power, but the noise introduced into the power line, causeing the DSP chip to lose synch.

__________________
Stuart

Author of EndPad, DailyMail and others now run by other generous souls. Setup: MCE hub feeds 3 x 360s from 2 x DVB-T tuners and 1 x Sky via TiVo+eTivo. Sky+HD coming 22/5.
sanderton is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 01-28-2004, 07:02 PM   #148 (Print)
bobnick
Advanced Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: London
Posts: 858
Quote:
Originally posted by sparkstack
I fail to see what that will do.

The card doesn't cause the problem. The problem is power related.



But could a second design of cachecard be introduced that uses less power, or creates less noise in the power signal?
bobnick is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 01-29-2004, 05:04 AM   #149 (Print)
TiVoMango
One can short
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 56
Quote:
Originally posted by sanderton
It's not the volume of power, but the noise introduced into the power line, causeing the DSP chip to lose synch.


so then you 'could' essentially design the cachecard to get it's power directly from the PSU just like another hard disk, and prevent these issues happening?
TiVoMango is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 01-29-2004, 07:00 AM   #150 (Print)
jeremy Parsons
Very Advanced Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Surrey
Posts: 127
One for Jafa , but considering how long to took to develop in the first place any new version will be a long time comming

__________________
Tivo1 2 x 200GB Segate Cachecard + Tivoweb + NTL Digital
Tivo2 2 x120GB Samsung Cachecard + Tivoweb + DTT 36 Inch Panasonic TV + Philips DVDR 985 (broken)
Tivo3 + Turbonet (Broken )
jeremy Parsons is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
 
Forum Jump
Thread Tools

Go Back  TiVo Community Archive2 > Main TiVo Forums > TiVo UK

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:00 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.0.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
(C)opyright - All Rights Reserved. No information may be posted elsewhere without written permission.
TiVo® is a registered trademark of TiVo Inc. This site is not affiliated with TiVo Inc.


Spider History Index