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Old 01-05-2004, 06:14 PM   #91 (Print)
Fustanella
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Quote:
Originally posted by aristoBrat
I didn't read Fustanella's post as saying anything other than that.
Thank you. That was the point I was trying to get across.
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Old 01-05-2004, 09:17 PM   #92 (Print)
Blackfoot
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I've noticed this error about incomplete data guide, but just ignored it initially until I saw both my Tivo's showing the same message. I had a dumb thought that I acted on and quickly realized I was wrong. My main D-Tivo has a NIC card in it and my 2nd unit does not. My dumb thought was that Tivo or DTV killed the Internet connection. I realize that program guide data comes through the dish and quickly realized my dumb thought when I remembered that my second unit only uses a phone line and I'm seeing message there too.

So... My question is, I switched from Ethernet dialing using ,#401 to a phone number to see if that would fix anything and it didn't. Now when I try to put the ,#401 back in to my prefix, I get a (Failed while negotiating.) message when it is connecting. Is this something I can easily correct or do I need to load my Network drivers again?

Thanks

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Old 01-05-2004, 11:27 PM   #93 (Print)
spartanstew
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ghenghis
This is certainly not a "cosmetic" problem.


Quote:
Originally posted by drew2k
This is certainly NOT a cosmetic problem when TiVo receivers are losing functionality.



Certainly? Implying you are certain? How do you know any of these issues are related?

The same day I noticed the aquiring data message, I also noticed that one of the tires on my car was losing air. I'm certain tivo is causing my tires to go flat.


Some of you people need to ****ing relax.





Stew

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Old 01-05-2004, 11:46 PM   #94 (Print)
djbrown
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Quote:
Originally posted by spartanstew
Certainly? Implying you are certain? How do you know any of these issues are related?

The same day I noticed the aquiring data message, I also noticed that one of the tires on my car was losing air. I'm certain tivo is causing my tires to go flat.

Some of you people need to ****ing relax.

Stew


Well, one of my two units has been reduced to a door stop (or, more accurately, a UTV) because the shows that appear in the grid guide are NOT being indexed properly into my Season Passes, etc.. And this happened at the same time the "errorneous" messages first appeared.

Pretty big coincidence if you ask me, especially since the message deals specifically with guide data not being complete, etc...
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Old 01-05-2004, 11:58 PM   #95 (Print)
drew2k
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Quote:
Originally posted by spartanstew
Certainly? Implying you are certain? How do you know any of these issues are related?

The same day I noticed the aquiring data message, I also noticed that one of the tires on my car was losing air. I'm certain tivo is causing my tires to go flat.

Some of you people need to ****ing relax.

Stew
Stew - Please make sure next time to also quote Fustanella, who is quite certain that it IS only a cosmetic problem. My certainty is no more or less valid than Fustanella's.

Since you read my post, you must have noted that I didn't make ridiculous claims, spout conspiracy theories, or even proclaim the sky was falling. I didn't go on a tirade against TiVo. So what DID I do? Well, I pointed out that the "cosmetic" problem has evolved for some people to the point that TiVo's builit-in search features were no longer functioning. I also pointed out that there is a problem with message icons. Did I say one problem was related to the other? No. I said these are problems with the 3.1.1b version of the software.

So, please, why don't you relax? Thanks, and have a pleasant tomorrow.

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Old 01-05-2004, 11:59 PM   #96 (Print)
jsharper
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Quote:
Originally posted by spartanstew
Certainly? Implying you are certain? How do you know any of these issues are related?


Well, we don't. But the message says we are missing guide data, and, well, many people are missing guide data. It wouldn't be a far stretch to say they are related

Quote:

The same day I noticed the aquiring data message, I also noticed that one of the tires on my car was losing air. I'm certain tivo is causing my tires to go flat.


I think the car analogy here would be more like... shortly after the "Gas tank empty" light on your car came on, the car stalled. Sure, you don't know the two were related (your fuel pump coulda just died right before the tank actually totally emptied), but there's a really good chance the two are related
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Old 01-06-2004, 12:41 AM   #97 (Print)
jbauer
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Hey All,

I think we've been lied to. My friend had this "acquiring data" issue and his DirecTivo wasn't recording any shows - his guide data was not there. He called TiVo and after hours of work, they figured out that the first transponder on Sat 1 was too low to receive the guide data. He adjusted his dish and all is well.

I just checked mine, and sure enough, transponder 1 on Sat 1 was low. I also adjusted my dish to bring that number higher. We'll see if it works.

I know this may sound impossible, improbable, etc. but is it possible that the satellite changed it's orbit slightly???

If this was the case, it would certainly be bad PR for DirecTV, so maybe they are trying to figure out a fix???

Tell me to shut up, but only after you prove me wrong after you check transponder 1 on Sat 1...

- Jon
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Old 01-06-2004, 12:58 AM   #98 (Print)
djbrown
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Quote:
Originally posted by jbauer

Tell me to shut up, but only after you prove me wrong after you check transponder 1 on Sat 1...

- Jon


Not sure if that's the problem or not, but I have two units hooked up to the same dish and one of them is working fine. The other? Not so much.

But anyone who is having problems with guide data missing (or more properly, guide data present but not indexed properly), could send their 15-digit tivo service # to TivoOpsMgr so they can look at the logs and see if there's something in common with these failed units.
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Old 01-06-2004, 01:01 AM   #99 (Print)
jsharper
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Quote:
Originally posted by jbauer
Hey All,

I know this may sound impossible, improbable, etc. but is it possible that the satellite changed it's orbit slightly???


Well, I don't know for sure, but that sounds improbable to me. First, the APG guide data is sent on all transponders. If your two tuners are watching things that are on transponders other than 1, it still needs to be able to receive the APG data on those transponders.. it can't tune to 1 and other ones at the same time (that would require a 3rd tuner). Further, if it was a low signal issue, we would be seeing pixellation or worse on the video and audio streams. Lastly, if any of the satellites at 101 were in the wrong spot or wobbling, it would affect more than just transponder 1..

I'll go check my #'s tho
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Old 01-06-2004, 01:43 AM   #100 (Print)
jbauer
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jsharper, you certainly know more about this stuff than myself. It is indeed strange that my buds dish needed adjustment and so did mine and the symptoms are similar to what a lot of people are experiencing on this board...

Looking forward to hearing about other peoples signal leval on Sat 1 Trans 1.

- Jon
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Old 01-06-2004, 02:23 AM   #101 (Print)
spartanstew
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Quote:
Originally posted by drew2k
Did I say one problem was related to the other? No.



Yes.


Quote:
Originally posted by drew2k
This is certainly NOT a cosmetic problem when TiVo receivers are losing functionality. ........ If these units are suddenly incapable of finding programs except for sequentially scrolling through a program guide, then they've lost functionality and the problem has to be upgraded from "cosmetic" to a new level that at least acknowledges a non-critical loss of functionality.



You are clearly stating that the problems are related. Do I know with certainty that they're not? No. Could they be? Absolutely. But for everyone to keep claiming with CERTAINTY that they are related is ridiculous.




Stew

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Old 01-06-2004, 02:51 AM   #102 (Print)
jsharper
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Quote:
Originally posted by jbauer

Looking forward to hearing about other peoples signal leval on Sat 1 Trans 1.


Mine is at about 83, which is plenty high enough for a good strong signal.
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Old 01-06-2004, 02:53 AM   #103 (Print)
jbauer
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Ok, I could be wrong... :-)

- Jon
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Old 01-06-2004, 07:02 AM   #104 (Print)
Rob Helmerichs
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Quote:
Originally posted by jbauer
Ok, I could be wrong... :-)

- Jon
No no no--you're differently right!

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Old 01-06-2004, 09:14 AM   #105 (Print)
Fustanella
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Quote:
Originally posted by drew2k
Stew - Please make sure next time to also quote Fustanella, who is quite certain that it IS only a cosmetic problem.
Wrong. It's a cosmetic problem FOR ME. Is that clear enough for you?
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Old 01-06-2004, 09:17 AM   #106 (Print)
djbrown
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Quote:
Originally posted by jbauer
Looking forward to hearing about other peoples signal leval on Sat 1 Trans 1.

- Jon


Signal strength for both units was 83. One of them works, the other doesn't.
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Old 01-06-2004, 09:58 AM   #107 (Print)
emayracing
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Quote:
Originally posted by spartanstew
Certainly? Implying you are certain? How do you know any of these issues are related?

The same day I noticed the aquiring data message, I also noticed that one of the tires on my car was losing air. I'm certain tivo is causing my tires to go flat.


Some of you people need to ****ing relax.





Stew


Tivo made your tires go low too? Same thing happened to me - about 5 minutes after the "acquiring" message appeared.

See - I _knew_ they were related!!!

:-)
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Old 01-06-2004, 11:14 AM   #108 (Print)
srs5694
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Quote:
Originally posted by djbrown
Well, one of my two units has been reduced to a door stop (or, more accurately, a UTV) because the shows that appear in the grid guide are NOT being indexed properly into my Season Passes, etc.. And this happened at the same time the "errorneous" messages first appeared.


Correlation does not imply causation. Particularly in this case. As far as I know, almost everybody is seeing the messages about lack of guide data. How many people are seeing actual (non-cosmetic) problems with the guide data? (Call this x.) How many people were seeing actual problems with the guide data before the messages appeared? (Call this y.) If x = y, then there's been no change in the non-cosmetic problem rate, and the conclusion that the two problems are related is almost certainly wrong. Essentially, in this case there really isn't any correlation; just a lot more attention paid to the non-cosmetic problems because of the occurrence of the cosmetic problem on so many units. If x > y, though, at least a correlation does exist -- but it's a very weak correlation, given that so many people are seeing the message but no non-cosmetic problems. (Also, you'd need to adjust for subscription growth, although that's probably not a big adjustment over a period of, say, a month.)

Remember, any public forum like this is about the worst possible way to gather statistics imaginable. With the possible exception of certain DirecTV or TiVo employees who might be lurking, none of us has any idea of what the values of x and y are, nor of other relevant numbers. It's very difficult to draw more than very tentative conclusions without actual data to back you up.
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Old 01-06-2004, 11:39 AM   #109 (Print)
Zigggy
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I also am experiecning this issue, however, I have noticed that the system fails the "system test". It fails due to transponder 1 (one) will not aquire. This is odd since I can run the sat set up and have a signal strength of 100 on both sat in. using transponder 18. transponder 17 has both o f them in the upper 90's as well as transponder 19.

neither a reset nor a reboot solved the issue. (yes I did read all the posted messages).

Hope this helps DirecTivo resolve the issue.

Ziggy
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Old 01-06-2004, 11:42 AM   #110 (Print)
paulfife
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Have those people with missing guide data tried restarting their TiVos?
I had the problem a couple months ago and restarting got it reindexing again.
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Old 01-06-2004, 11:56 AM   #111 (Print)
djbrown
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I do a daily check of my To-Do lists, and I first noticed a degradation of my To-Do list once the message started to appear. Digging deeper, I soon realized that ESPN and ESPN2, two channels I FREQUENTLY tune too for the unused tuner, both had "To Be Announced" in the guide data, again immediately following this message on one of my two DTivos. So I started digging into my season passes, and noticed that after a given date, nothing was being indexed in properly even though the guide data for those shows in question WAS present.

When your To-do list drops from about 5 shows a day, every day, for two weeks straight, down to about 4 entries total, all occuring within the next day or two, and NOTHING after that, combined with the "errorneous" message display, I'd say there's a pretty good case for correalation here.

I *still* show ESPN and ESPN2 as completely "To be announced" on this unit, and my entire index built is a fraction of what it should be. All of this happened immediately following the errorneous message displaying for the first time.

The few shows it did record as a result of Season Passes still sort of working? It was a KUID Season Pass, and these shows didn't record as such. These were daily shows (Angel on TNT for instance) that recorded just fine until late last week, when the next one was set to record but wasn't saved as a KUID and the 5 this week weren't set to record at all because 'Angel' isn't in my index.
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Old 01-06-2004, 11:58 AM   #112 (Print)
djbrown
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Quote:
Originally posted by paulfife
Have those people with missing guide data tried restarting their TiVos?
I had the problem a couple months ago and restarting got it reindexing again.


I've restarted it once and it didn't help anything.
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Old 01-06-2004, 02:11 PM   #113 (Print)
emayracing
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Quote:
Originally posted by djbrown
I've restarted it once and it didn't help anything.



I also tried a reboot and a "Reset Program Data and To Do" function - and it sort of worked.

My system was stuck with 1/6/04 being the last day of program data, after the reboot - it loaded through 1/12/04 - and has been stuck there ever since.

The problem with the guide data stopping began on 12/29/03 - the first day I saw the "acquiring" message.
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Old 01-06-2004, 02:45 PM   #114 (Print)
srs5694
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Quote:
Originally posted by djbrown
When your To-do list drops from about 5 shows a day, every day, for two weeks straight, down to about 4 entries total, all occuring within the next day or two, and NOTHING after that, combined with the "errorneous" message display, I'd say there's a pretty good case for correalation here.


Statistically speaking, that's not necessarily so. A correlation exists when two things both occur together and do not occur together. (Or when the presence of one thing is associated with the absence of another.) For instance, a Martian would notice that there's a correlation between red lights on those rectangular doohickeys at street intersections and cars stopping. The cars stop when the light is red, and don't stop when the light's not red. (This correlation is imperfect, but that's another matter.) The current discussion is more analogous to people having two hands and getting the flu. Lots of people come down with the flu every year, and the vast majority of them have two hands. This isn't a correlation, though, because most people have two hands; the number of people with 0, 1, 3, 4, or more hands who get the flu is very low because the total number of people with those number of hands is also very low. Likewise, everybody or almost everybody with a DirecTiVo is experiencing the "no guide data" message. Thus, those people who are experiencing more serious problems necessarily see the error message. This isn't very diagnostic, though, any more than is the fact that most people who get the flu have two hands.

That said, there could be some link between the two; there could be some underlying problem that's causing cosmetic issues for some people and cosmetic issues along with more serious problems for others. The fact that any individual, or even a whole group of individuals, have both problems is not a very useful diagnostic observation, though. They could be entirely unrelated; the people who are experiencing the serious problems might have experienced them now even if whatever is causing the cosmetic problem had never happened.
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Old 01-06-2004, 03:03 PM   #115 (Print)
djbrown
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Quote:
Originally posted by srs5694
They could be entirely unrelated; the people who are experiencing the serious problems might have experienced them now even if whatever is causing the cosmetic problem had never happened.


Well, I've had the Tivo for two years this week and have never seen it behave like it currently is before last week, when the messages regarding partial program data and the like, started to appear.

Something changed last week, or we would have been seeing those messages all along. The fact that the problems some of us are seeing, and only started seeing when the messages started to appear, appear to be caused by partial data, which is what the message states is happening, is pretty fluky if they are completely unrelated......
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Old 01-06-2004, 03:23 PM   #116 (Print)
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Question

Quote:
That said, there could be some link between the two; there could be some underlying problem that's causing cosmetic issues for some people and cosmetic issues along with more serious problems for others. The fact that any individual, or even a whole group of individuals, have both problems is not a very useful diagnostic observation, though. They could be entirely unrelated; the people who are experiencing the serious problems might have experienced them now even if whatever is causing the cosmetic problem had never happened.


Whether this is one problem or two (or more), what is apparently true is that many people are experiencing more than just a "cosmetic" problem, beginning co-incident in time with the sudden appearance of the erroneous "Acquiring satellite data" message (which IS a cosmetic problem IMHO).

TiVoOpsMgr, you have stated only that TiVo/DTV are aware of and are working on the cosmetic problem. Could you please tell us what you know of the more serious functional problems reported in this thread, and if there is anything we can do to work around them until they are fixed (e.g., to force the TiVo to re-acquire the satellite data and re-index, in the same way (sort of) that you can force a daily call). Please. Pretty please.

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Old 01-06-2004, 03:31 PM   #117 (Print)
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I'm so glad that I checked here. I've been wondering what was up with that message. TivoCommunity is the best. By the way I love Tivo and couldn't live without it. I'm glad I found this forum
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Old 01-06-2004, 03:48 PM   #118 (Print)
howiemaurer
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We have been out of town on vacation for ten days. We got home last night and found that TIVO did not record anything for the past few days and we're getting the message.

I also got a message last night that it couldn't find Sat 2, there were no weather issues. I then went to set a recording and there was no guide info, most of the guide was blank.

I have two virgins, one Phillips, one Hughes.
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Old 01-06-2004, 03:52 PM   #119 (Print)
jbauer
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That's what happened to my bud... This is clearly NOT just a display issue. This is have an adverse effect on our use of TiVo.

- Jon
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Old 01-06-2004, 04:28 PM   #120 (Print)
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Have said it before, but it merits repeating. Those with problems with a partial index as a result of this message should send their Tivo service # to TivoOpsMgr. They need to look at our logs to further understand the problem.
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