TiVo Community Forum

TiVo Community Forum Archive 2
Covering threads with a last post date between
July 1, 2004 and December 31, 2005.
THIS IS A READ ONLY SITE
 


 

SEARCH  |  ARCHIVE 1 MAIN SITE

 
Forum Jump
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 04-22-2004, 12:32 PM   #1 (Print)
bigcb37
Willing Member
 
bigcb37's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Falls Church, VA
Posts: 661
Initial Impressions

So how are they? What are the first impressions? I dont get mine until tomorrow...

C

__________________
You can make up statistics to back up any point you want to. 87% of people know that.

beep

Last edited by bigcb37 : 04-22-2004 at 08:37 PM.
bigcb37 is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 04-22-2004, 12:36 PM   #2 (Print)
maharg18
Registered User
 
maharg18's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Chattanooga, TN
Posts: 3,077
Overall I'm very pleased. OTA stations are coming in very nicely, guide data looks good. Picture quality is excellent. Menu and guide speed seem about the same as my standard Directivo, hopefully it will improve a little once indexing, etc is done.

__________________
-Maharg18

HR10-250 HD Directivo
DSR704 SD Directivo
maharg18 is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 04-22-2004, 12:44 PM   #3 (Print)
davidmin
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Oakland, CA USA
Posts: 402
Be sure to post your reviews here for posterity!

http://gearviews.avsforum.com/showp...7&cat=20&page=1

David
davidmin is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 04-22-2004, 01:49 PM   #4 (Print)
JasonDBanks
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 43
Yes, lets get some feedback on scaling & color fidelity!

How does SD look up-converted to 720p or 1080i?

Is the color saturation better over HDMI-DVI then S-Video?

What is your opinion on the quality of the HDMI-DVI cable that was included? Thin and cheap? Or decent?


BIG question, with Off-Air, do you have accurate Guide Data?? Do you have all the off-air channels that you should have?
JasonDBanks is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 04-22-2004, 02:14 PM   #5 (Print)
neilaevans
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 244
Quote:
Originally posted by JasonDBanks
Yes, lets get some feedback on scaling & color fidelity!

How does SD look up-converted to 720p or 1080i?

Is the color saturation better over HDMI-DVI then S-Video?

What is your opinion on the quality of the HDMI-DVI cable that was included? Thin and cheap? Or decent?


BIG question, with Off-Air, do you have accurate Guide Data?? Do you have all the off-air channels that you should have?


Haven't had time to answer all of your questions, but I can do two of them.
My quick initial impression is that SD unfortunately doesn't look great up-converted on my set (a Hitachi x500). There's a lot of line twitter (I think that's the term) on narrow lines - they flicker. This is a real bummer (coupled with the lack of a native mode). I'm going to have to try to figure out if I can do a macro to switch output format, tivo aspect, and my tv's aspect mode to easily switch from SD to HD. HD looks like HD, which is good, though its hard to tell much more because there's not any good HD on right now.

On a more positive note, OTA guide data seems perfect, and yes I have all the channels I should have.
neilaevans is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 04-22-2004, 02:48 PM   #6 (Print)
leesweet
TC Special Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Northern VA (South Riding), USA
Posts: 1,788
SD on a HD STB upconverted to an HD set is *never* going to look wonderful. Try having the STB set to the same native resolution as the set (720p for Sammie DLPs, etc.).

__________________
-Lee (Two HR10s, one upgraded to 800 GB.)
leesweet is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 04-22-2004, 02:55 PM   #7 (Print)
neilaevans
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 244
Quote:
Originally posted by leesweet
SD on a HD STB upconverted to an HD set is *never* going to look wonderful. Try having the STB set to the same native resolution as the set (720p for Sammie DLPs, etc.).


My Hitachi is native at 1080i and so that's what I had the Tivo box upconverting to. Not so great. For SD, having Tivo outputting 480i (not 480p) seems much better. My Hitachi then upconverts the 480i signal to 1080i. Its not surprising that the TV's scaler is better than Tivo's, but it makes the lack of a native mode really frustrating.

I don't have access to any true 720P HD material at the moment, so I can't comment on whether I should let Tivo or my TV do that conversion.
neilaevans is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 04-22-2004, 03:02 PM   #8 (Print)
PerfKnee
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Bay Area, CA
Posts: 78
neilaevans- Thanks for the quick feedback. In order for us to understand the upconversion issues you are seeing, Please report:
1. What cable connects the Tivo to the set?
2. What format are you outputting to the set (1080i, 720p, 480p)
3. What is the native display format of your set (I think it's 1080i but not sure).
PerfKnee is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 04-22-2004, 03:10 PM   #9 (Print)
jweitzman
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Palo Alto, CA
Posts: 37
If anyone is switching from an RCA DTC-100, please let us know if the OTA reception is better. I have a heck of a time getting stable reception with the DTC-100. Want to know if the HDTivo is better (after all it has been a few years of getting the tuners right since I bought the DTC) before I drive myself crazy with antenna fiddling.

JW

__________________
HR10-250
DSR6000
Pioneer HD510 Monitor
jweitzman is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 04-22-2004, 03:13 PM   #10 (Print)
Darin
Way Left
 
Darin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Atlanta, GA USA
Posts: 1,951
Quote:
Originally posted by neilaevans
Its not surprising that the TV's scaler is better than Tivo's, but it makes the lack of a native mode really frustrating.

TiVoPony indicated that the chip they are using is fairly flexible, and a software upgrade that would allow native mode would likely not be undoable. Lets hope they recognize the need for it, and provide it at some point.

And let me plant the seed now... I would LOVE to have the capability to exclude a resolution from native mode... my (Sony) set upconverts 480 to 960, which technically should be better than an upconvert to 1080, since it's an even multiple (especially if the HD-TiVo's 1080 upconverts aren't all that). BUT, my set DOWNCONVERTS 720 to 480p. So should native become an option in the future, I'd like the ability to tell it to never output a certain resolution (720 in my case). Therefore, my TV would automatically handle 480 upconverts, while the TiVo would automatically handle 720 converts to 1080, and also provide 1080 natively.

__________________
Right now, I'm so embarrassed to live in Georgia, all I know to do is laugh about it:
"I don't know how many of you have ever run over a skunk with your car. I have many times, and I can tell you, the stink stays around for a long time. You can take the car through the wash, and it's still there. So the scent of this Super Bowl halftime show will long linger in the nostrils of America." - Senator Zell Miller - Republocrat - Georgia
Darin is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 04-22-2004, 03:17 PM   #11 (Print)
neilaevans
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 244
Quote:
Originally posted by PerfKnee
neilaevans- Thanks for the quick feedback. In order for us to understand the upconversion issues you are seeing, Please report:
1. What cable connects the Tivo to the set?
2. What format are you outputting to the set (1080i, 720p, 480p)
3. What is the native display format of your set (I think it's 1080i but not sure).


1. I'm using the HDMI to DVI cable which was included, but I also tested with the component cable. Didn't make a difference as far as the "line twitter" was concerned. I'm waiting till I have more good HD recorded before doing more general HDMI versus component comparisons.

2. I see the upconversion flicker when the set is set to 1080i, 720p or 480p. Seems basically the same, but I haven't done any real indepth comparisons yet. It's only if I output 480i that the flicker problem I'm talking about disappears. So for the moment, I'm using 1080i for HD and 480i for SD.

3. The set is 1080i native. It converts SD material to either 1080i or 540p (user selectable). I, like most Hitachi owners, don't really see much difference between 1080i and 540p. Certainly doesn't seem to affect the conversion issue we're discussing.
neilaevans is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 04-22-2004, 03:19 PM   #12 (Print)
neilaevans
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 244
Darin,
Any thoughts on the best way to submit our feedback/feature requests to DirecTV? I get the feeling they don't pay as much attention to this board as the Tivo folks do
neilaevans is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 04-22-2004, 03:21 PM   #13 (Print)
Darin
Way Left
 
Darin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Atlanta, GA USA
Posts: 1,951
I really have no idea.

__________________
Right now, I'm so embarrassed to live in Georgia, all I know to do is laugh about it:
"I don't know how many of you have ever run over a skunk with your car. I have many times, and I can tell you, the stink stays around for a long time. You can take the car through the wash, and it's still there. So the scent of this Super Bowl halftime show will long linger in the nostrils of America." - Senator Zell Miller - Republocrat - Georgia
Darin is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 04-22-2004, 03:22 PM   #14 (Print)
aaron.s
Technocub
 
aaron.s's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Yonkers, NY
Posts: 164
Send a message via AIM to aaron.s Send a message via Yahoo to aaron.s
neilaevans -

That "twitter" you're seeing is the data portion of that channel's broadcast that is used for things like Closed Captioning. It is displayed in an area called "Overscan"

Normally most TV's don't show this area unless you alter the height or position of the picture (alter the overscan).

I am getting this on my locals coming over the SAT (not OTA) -- whereas I wasn't before on my standard tivo. I'm going to have to go in and alter the overscan on my TV by making the picture taller or moving the entire picture up a few pixels until they disappear (this is what I will probably do).

Check your TV manual and see if there are any controls to do this... I know on my Sony Grand Wega II LCD Projection TV, I have to go into the service menu (special codes) to alter this -- this control us not available in the standard (user) menu's on my TV.

Aaron

Quote:
Originally posted by neilaevans
Haven't had time to answer all of your questions, but I can do two of them.
My quick initial impression is that SD unfortunately doesn't look great up-converted on my set (a Hitachi x500). There's a lot of line twitter (I think that's the term) on narrow lines - they flicker. This is a real bummer (coupled with the lack of a native mode). I'm going to have to try to figure out if I can do a macro to switch output format, tivo aspect, and my tv's aspect mode to easily switch from SD to HD. HD looks like HD, which is good, though its hard to tell much more because there's not any good HD on right now.

On a more positive note, OTA guide data seems perfect, and yes I have all the channels I should have.

__________________
Sony 60" Grand Wega II
Integra DTR 8.3 Receiver
Bravo D1 DVD Player
Gateway DVD+RW Recorder
Sony SAT-T60 DirecTivo (65 Hour)
HR10-250 HD Tivo (Stock for now)
aaron.s is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 04-22-2004, 03:41 PM   #15 (Print)
Darin
Way Left
 
Darin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Atlanta, GA USA
Posts: 1,951
Quote:
Originally posted by aaron.s
That "twitter" you're seeing is the data portion of that channel's broadcast that is used for things like Closed Captioning. It is displayed in an area called "Overscan"

Really? I always just assumed that the digital standard did away with this rather antiquated way of delivering that data. But I guess even if it did, it would have to be put back into the output by the STB, since TV's still expect to get it that way.

__________________
Right now, I'm so embarrassed to live in Georgia, all I know to do is laugh about it:
"I don't know how many of you have ever run over a skunk with your car. I have many times, and I can tell you, the stink stays around for a long time. You can take the car through the wash, and it's still there. So the scent of this Super Bowl halftime show will long linger in the nostrils of America." - Senator Zell Miller - Republocrat - Georgia
Darin is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 04-22-2004, 03:44 PM   #16 (Print)
neilaevans
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 244
Aaron,
I don't think this is the same thing, as its not limited to the overscan edges of the screen. Basically, any thin lines will flicker, wherever they are on screen. A weather map is a great example, but anything with sharp lines will exhibit the same behavior. It looks very much like a certain type of DVD artifact...I thought the name was "twitter" but perhaps I'm mistaken. It's definitely a conversion artifact, not an overscan issue.
neilaevans is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 04-22-2004, 04:04 PM   #17 (Print)
rogo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 861
"TiVoPony indicated that the chip they are using is fairly flexible, and a software upgrade that would allow native mode would likely not be undoable."

It's actually trivial in a way. Create a user toggle: Native Mode --> On or off.

If on, then set output resolution = source resolution (which it is detecting anyway).

If off, then set output resolution = user selected output resolution. Non-CRT owners might well not care, unless it is true that the internal scaler is not so good.
rogo is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 04-22-2004, 04:09 PM   #18 (Print)
dswallow
+258PC
 
dswallow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Long Branch, NJ, USA
Posts: 27,809
Send a message via ICQ to dswallow
Quote:
Originally posted by Darin
TiVoPony indicated that the chip they are using is fairly flexible, and a software upgrade that would allow native mode would likely not be undoable. Lets hope they recognize the need for it, and provide it at some point.
Without actually trying to find TiVoPony's post, I think you've got two different issues mixed together in your statement.

A native mode is doable simply because the HD DVR already lets the user control the output format, and the unit already knows what the input format is internally. It's a no-brainer option.

Where the general flexibility remark comes in is in offering a non-linear stretch and some zoom modes; which is where he said this could probably be done in software.
dswallow is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 04-22-2004, 04:10 PM   #19 (Print)
Glen dG
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: no longer in Kansas
Posts: 82
Quote:
Originally posted by neilaevans
Aaron,
I don't think this is the same thing, as its not limited to the overscan edges of the screen. Basically, any thin lines will flicker, wherever they are on screen. A weather map is a great example, but anything with sharp lines will exhibit the same behavior. It looks very much like a certain type of DVD artifact...I thought the name was "twitter" but perhaps I'm mistaken. It's definitely a conversion artifact, not an overscan issue.


Take a quick look at this description of interlacing artifacts (and other things) to see if line twitter is what you are seeing.

__________________
Read it. Know it. Then talk.
The Betamax Case
Glen dG is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 04-22-2004, 04:21 PM   #20 (Print)
neilaevans
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 244
Quote:
Originally posted by Glen dG
Take a quick look at this description of interlacing artifacts (and other things) to see if line twitter is what you are seeing.


Yup, looks like twitter to me.
neilaevans is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 04-22-2004, 04:33 PM   #21 (Print)
steel6
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Reston, VA
Posts: 48
Send a message via AIM to steel6
I am pretty pleased as well.

Have not played with the up convert much yet on my Sammy DLP but I have been a little underwhelmed with the Sammy so far so it would be good if it helps.

Also my guide seems very slow but I assume that will resolve itself.

OTA data is populating and accurate.

__________________
Stu
2x DRS6000
HR10-250 HD-Tivo
Panasonic DMR-E50k
Harmony SST-658
Harmony SST-688
Samsung HLN467W
Harman Kardon AVR-525
Slimp3 Squeezebox
steel6 is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 04-22-2004, 04:34 PM   #22 (Print)
steel6
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Reston, VA
Posts: 48
Send a message via AIM to steel6
Oh I forgot the Harmony 688 arrived yesterday and I love it! Great feel, form factor and function!

__________________
Stu
2x DRS6000
HR10-250 HD-Tivo
Panasonic DMR-E50k
Harmony SST-658
Harmony SST-688
Samsung HLN467W
Harman Kardon AVR-525
Slimp3 Squeezebox
steel6 is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 04-22-2004, 04:37 PM   #23 (Print)
apinkel
Member
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 78
Send a message via Yahoo to apinkel
steel6, Let us know your thoughts on the upconversion of the SD by the HDTivo on your Sammy. I love the Sammy's except their SD content upconversion.
apinkel is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 04-22-2004, 04:44 PM   #24 (Print)
jim_arrows
Member since 12/2000
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Fairfax, VA
Posts: 81
Steel, how's your OTA reception out in Reston? Any previous HD receivers to compare its sensitivity to? Oh, and last thing... update your Signature!!

__________________
Don't know why it says I registered in March, 2002; I've been here since December of 2000... and it reset my post count, to boot!!
jim_arrows is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 04-22-2004, 05:21 PM   #25 (Print)
whsbuss
Advanced Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Phila, PA
Posts: 437
Quote:
Originally posted by steel6
I am pretty pleased as well.

Have not played with the up convert much yet on my Sammy DLP but I have been a little underwhelmed with the Sammy so far so it would be good if it helps.

Also my guide seems very slow but I assume that will resolve itself.

OTA data is populating and accurate.


I also have the Sammy 467W and am very interested in the PQ via DVI and component. Any comments would be appreciated.
whsbuss is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 04-22-2004, 05:45 PM   #26 (Print)
rogo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 861
Initial impression: You cannot complete Guided Setup wiithout activating.... This appears to be new.

EDIT: Never mind. So long as a card is in the slot, you can continue. I tried to skip even that.

So far, however, my antenna is getting nothing and it worked flawlessly on my other HD box.... More later.

EDIT 2: Daytime, Sutro not broadcasting as is often (always?) the case... Fortunately, one channel comes from elsewhere. Comin' in strong so far.

Last edited by rogo : 04-22-2004 at 05:59 PM.
rogo is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 04-22-2004, 05:58 PM   #27 (Print)
FuseWerx
Long-time lurker
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 36
May seem like a trivial thing for those of us who've been around forums for a while, but it's a point worth making anyway:

Using slang abbreviations like "Sammy" for "Samsung" will ensure that people reading the posts start using those words, too. Seems like a good thing, right? Making a fad catch on? Unfortunately, if I wanted information about the new HD TiVo with a SAMSUNG monitor, it's possible that valuable posts wouldn't show up, because the forum's search engine won't "stem" "Samsung" into "Sammy" or "Sammie" for searches.

In other words, stop abbreviating and using slang brand names, so newbies can search better.

__________________
Dustin Miller, President
SharePoint Experts
http://www.sharepointexperts.com/
FuseWerx is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 04-22-2004, 06:05 PM   #28 (Print)
rogo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 861
Sammy Samsung Panny Panasonic Tosh Toshiba Mitsu Mitsubishi Sony Baloney.

Now this thread will be found regularly.
rogo is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 04-22-2004, 06:12 PM   #29 (Print)
midas
Registered User
 
midas's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Chicago, IL USA
Posts: 3,193
Quote:
Originally posted by FuseWerx
In other words, stop abbreviating and using slang brand names, so newbies can search better.


Great point except for one thing.

NEWBIES DON'T SEARCH

midas is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 04-22-2004, 06:43 PM   #30 (Print)
PJO1966
I'm baaaack!
 
PJO1966's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 5,569
Quote:
Originally posted by rogo


So far, however, my antenna is getting nothing and it worked flawlessly on my other HD box....


Same here... nothing, no signal from antenna at all
PJO1966 is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
 
Forum Jump
Thread Tools

Go Back  TiVo Community Archive2 > Main TiVo Forums > HDTV TiVo Powered PVRs

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:31 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.0.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
(C)opyright - All Rights Reserved. No information may be posted elsewhere without written permission.
TiVoŽ is a registered trademark of TiVo Inc. This site is not affiliated with TiVo Inc.


Spider History Index