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Old 08-04-2004, 11:03 AM   #1 (Print)
Andrewp75
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New Tivo DVD Recorder Combos

I am not sure how much interest there is the upcoming machines by Humax and Toshiba, however I am wondering if anyone has solid release times. I have heard August, it is August and as far as I am aware nothing is in the stores yet. Also can anyone give insigh over the pros and cons of these upcoming machines (in theory) in contrast to standalone DVD recorders hooked up to Tivo. Thanks in advance for all of your help!

Andrew
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Old 08-04-2004, 12:01 PM   #2 (Print)
bkdtv
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Andrew,

The Toshiba is slated for late August. Expect to see it show up at Best Buy late this month or early next.
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Old 08-04-2004, 12:05 PM   #3 (Print)
ZeoTiVo
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they are actually slated late August , but who knows when for sure.

the benefit of an incorporated DVD-R is that you can burn shows to DVD faster than real time. I do not know the number of minutes to burn a show on current 810 from pioneer but it is a significant difference.

also going to an outside DVD recoder means you are watching the show being burned to DVD adn can not watch something else. with an integrated one you can burn in the background and watch a different show.
I think there is batch burning on integrated as well.

3rd a menu is created by TiVo to access the shows on the DVD - this does not happen with a standalone recorder.


the downside to watch out for on integrated DVD-R is picture quality issues as the format for TiVo recording is different than for a DVD so you have encoding or signal strength or playback issues of some sort that can cause sudden noticeable pixelation or flicker. Some (but Not ALL) notice this on the pioneer 810 unit that is currently out. The forum will be interested in whether people observe this same porblem on the new units or not.
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Old 08-04-2004, 12:36 PM   #4 (Print)
Andrewp75
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Can anyone that works at or with an electronics store confirm these dates, big home theater revamp (selling 65 inch mitsub and going LCD) on the way. Thanks for the help!

Andrew
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Old 08-04-2004, 01:01 PM   #5 (Print)
Dan203
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Quote:
Originally posted by ZeoTiVo
the benefit of an incorporated DVD-R is that you can burn shows to DVD faster than real time. I do not know the number of minutes to burn a show on current 810 from pioneer but it is a significant difference.

also going to an outside DVD recoder means you are watching the show being burned to DVD adn can not watch something else. with an integrated one you can burn in the background and watch a different show.
I think there is batch burning on integrated as well.


This is the biggest difference. The Pioneer can record to DVD-R at 4X. Which means a 1 hour show at Extreme (maximum quality) only take about 15 minutes to burn to disk, and a 1 hour show at Basic (minimum quality) only takes about 3 minutes. Plus you can watch something else while it's burning.

With an external DVD recorder you're forced to watch the program while your DVD recorder captures it in real time. Just like a VCR.

The only downfall to the Pioneer is the quality issue. However I have hope that TiVo will release a software update that will resolve this issue in the near future for the Pioneer units. And no one is sure yet whether the Toshiba or Humax units will have the same issues.

Dan

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Old 08-04-2004, 03:14 PM   #6 (Print)
macohenks
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Hi Dan,

Since we've all heard conflicting reports from Pioneer about a future software fix, do you have any reason to believe what they're telling you more now rather than the last 6-7 months?

Thanks!
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Old 08-04-2004, 05:00 PM   #7 (Print)
ErictheHank
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dan203
The only downfall to the Pioneer is the quality issue. However I have hope that TiVo will release a software update that will resolve this issue in the near future for the Pioneer units. And no one is sure yet whether the Toshiba or Humax units will have the same issues.

Dan


I actually talked to someone at Pioneer this Sunday. The person I spoke with was actually very honest which I found to be refreshing. He said that the image quality and pixelation problems are an admitted known problem, he also said that there is no fix, no ETA for a fix, and from what he knew there would likely never be a fix. Armed with this information I returned the 810H that I bought last week and am eagerly awaiting the release of the Toshiba models. Hopefully these problems were just something that occured on the Pioneers and not an problem with DVD/TiVo combos in general. I will say that if Toshiba releases a DVD-R model now with the same problems that the Pioneer has had since it's release I will be disappointed to say the least. If I get a Toshiba and it has the same problems I will just abandon the DVD-R models and get one of the new S2 Standalone models.

edit: In all fairness though if the problems with the 810H are somehow resolved through a software fix I think that it may just about be the perfect piece of consumer electronics. The DVD burning is very slick.
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Old 08-04-2004, 05:57 PM   #8 (Print)
Dan203
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Quote:
Originally posted by macohenks
Since we've all heard conflicting reports from Pioneer about a future software fix, do you have any reason to believe what they're telling you more now rather than the last 6-7 months?


Both the Toshiba and Humax units are going to be based on TiVo's reference platform, which is the same reference platform used by Pioneer. My hope is that these two companies saw the problems reported for the Pioneers and forced TiVo to correct them before agreeing to build a unit using the same design. And since they're all based on the same platform, whatever fix comes out for one should also be available for the other.

Of course Toshiba and Humax could just ignore the complaints and build a unit with the exact same hardware, and issues, as the Pioneer.

Dan

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Note: Two of the above TiVos actually belong to loopey, but I have access to them so I'm counting them

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Old 08-04-2004, 11:32 PM   #9 (Print)
mattack
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Quote:
Originally posted by ZeoTiVo
3rd a menu is created by TiVo to access the shows on the DVD - this does not happen with a standalone recorder.


Actually, you can (manually) make menus for DVDs on standalone recorders. It's even easier on the ones with a hard drive, since you can set it all up and make playlists and such... and edit the recordings before writing to DVD.. with no additional loss than recording directly to DVD.. (plus you're not hosed if the DVD is bad)
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Old 08-04-2004, 11:35 PM   #10 (Print)
mattack
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dan203
With an external DVD recorder you're forced to watch the program while your DVD recorder captures it in real time. Just like a VCR.


not really true, especially on the ones with a hard drive. Even without a hard drive, you can use like OTR on a VCR..

But with the ones with a hard drive, you can unattended (by just making sure the recording is longer than the original show on the Tivo) record to the hard drive, edit, and unattended send to DVD with no additional loss compared to recording to DVD directly.

I sure hope these new hard drive/DVD recorders that use Tivo software allow editing -- if so, and if they're in the same price league as the Toshiba RD-XS32 & Panasonic DMR-E85, then I'll buy the one with Tivo instead.. otherwise, I'll get one of those other ones and deal with the fact that it's not Tivo.

The editing capability is more important to me for now. (I have 2 standalone Tivos w/lifetime already)
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Old 08-05-2004, 08:53 AM   #11 (Print)
ZeoTiVo
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Quote:
Originally posted by mattack
Actually, you can (manually) make menus for DVDs on standalone recorders. It's even easier on the ones with a hard drive, since you can set it all up and make playlists and such... and edit the recordings before writing to DVD.. with no additional loss than recording directly to DVD.. (plus you're not hosed if the DVD is bad)


yes but on the integrated DVD-R 810H unit TiVo autogenerates the menu and puts it on the DVD. no extra step (albeit an easy one) to make the menu.


the hard drive standalone DVD-R models are the way I would go if buying one, no question. The fact of having the recording on the hard drive to get the DVD the way you want it is a big plus. but still to get the recording from TiVo to the standalone DVD-R is it still not real time recording ?


also are there models that let you edit out commercials ?
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Old 08-05-2004, 08:58 AM   #12 (Print)
bkdtv
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Quote:
also are there models that let you edit out commercials ?

Many of the non-Tivo DVD writers with built-in hard drives allow for commercial editing. Unfortunately, these products have VCR-like recording functionality (recordings setup based on time/date).
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Old 08-05-2004, 09:19 AM   #13 (Print)
ZeoTiVo
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Quote:
Originally posted by bkdtv
Many of the non-Tivo DVD writers with built-in hard drives allow for commercial editing. Unfortunately, these products have VCR-like recording functionality (recordings setup based on time/date).



yah but if you mainly recorded shows from the TiVo to this , then who cares about the plain Jane recording software except for occasional conflict. Plus I have on my sheet of possibilities getting one of these and using it for trick play of TV and would not want it recording much content so I can switch channels at will.
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Old 08-05-2004, 12:02 PM   #14 (Print)
Andrewp75
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Will the Toshiba or the humax allow you to use DVD-RWs?
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Old 08-05-2004, 12:05 PM   #15 (Print)
Dan203
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Yes. They allow recording to both DVD-R and DVD-RW disks. Although recording to DVD-RW happens at a slower speed. (the Pioneer is 4x DVD-R and 2x DVD-RW)

Dan

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Note: Two of the above TiVos actually belong to loopey, but I have access to them so I'm counting them

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Old 08-08-2004, 08:09 AM   #16 (Print)
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Weaknees is advertising the Humaxes for sale...

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Old 08-08-2004, 08:14 AM   #17 (Print)
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Last edited by HDTiVo : 08-08-2004 at 08:25 AM.
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Old 08-08-2004, 11:39 AM   #18 (Print)
GT1Boy
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Quote:
Originally posted by HDTiVo
No indication the T800 or T2500 have DVD recorders.


You are correct. The T800 and T2500 are standalones. However, the DRT800 will be a DVD recorder.

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Old 08-09-2004, 09:04 AM   #19 (Print)
Andrewp75
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ANy more sightings or knowledge on when the Humax and Toshiba will be released. Most solid website info that I have is Fall.
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Old 08-09-2004, 09:21 PM   #20 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by GT1Boy
You are correct. The T800 and T2500 are standalones. However, the DRT800 will be a DVD recorder.



And would this DRT800 come with basic Tivo, or would it require a subscription to work?

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Old 08-10-2004, 11:17 AM   #21 (Print)
Andrewp75
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These machines like all Combo DVD boxes will be bundled with Tivo Basic. Please, more news on the release dates, it is like looking for Atlantis....
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Old 08-10-2004, 09:12 PM   #22 (Print)
mattack
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Quote:
Originally posted by bkdtv
Many of the non-Tivo DVD writers with built-in hard drives allow for commercial editing. Unfortunately, these products have VCR-like recording functionality (recordings setup based on time/date).


You may still consider it "VCR-like", but the Panasonic DMR-E85 has "TV Guide On Screen". I've never used it.. But one question I asked that got answered in the DVD recorder forum a while ago is that you _can_ add automatic pre and post padding to recordings set with the TV Guide on Screen.. (which is a free guide sent over cable systems and/or over the air).
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Old 08-11-2004, 06:40 AM   #23 (Print)
bkdtv
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You can pad, but it still records that timeslot regardless of what is showing. The time slot to record is set at the specific time you create the recording; it doesn't change if new guide information indicates a change in program time.
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Old 08-14-2004, 11:21 PM   #24 (Print)
Andrewp75
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Has anyone seen any of the new DVD combo boxes advertised for pre-order yet? Preferably the Toshiba.
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Old 08-15-2004, 01:48 AM   #25 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Andrewp75
Has anyone seen any of the new DVD combo boxes advertised for pre-order yet? Preferably the Toshiba.


Considering that Toshiba doesn't even have a product page for them up yet I am not holding my breath but I am still hopefull that they will actually hit the late August time frame as originally promised.
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Old 08-15-2004, 05:15 AM   #26 (Print)
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I just got a copy of Sound and Vision magazine yesterday that had an ad from Toshiba itself as well as a retailer promoting the new recorder. This same issue has a review of the Hughes HD-DTiVo recorder.

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Old 08-15-2004, 05:25 AM   #27 (Print)
terminus303
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I've got multiple Tivos so I don't have the problem of having to watch along with the show as it's recorded and with one recorder, I can service multiple Tivos but the prospect of writing at 4X appeals to me.

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Old 08-15-2004, 11:00 AM   #28 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by stevel
I just got a copy of Sound and Vision magazine yesterday that had an ad from Toshiba itself as well as a retailer promoting the new recorder. This same issue has a review of the Hughes HD-DTiVo recorder.


Out of curiousity, who was the retailer?
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Old 08-15-2004, 11:28 AM   #29 (Print)
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Vann's I don't see it on their web site, though.

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Old 08-15-2004, 09:59 PM   #30 (Print)
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any word on whether the Toshiba or Humax will record shows copied from another TiVo via HMO show sharing? As I understand it, the current Pioneer will not.

For people who already have one TiVo and are looking for a DVD-R drive for their home theater, NOT having this ability seems like a pretty big strike against this unit.
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