TiVo Community Forum

TiVo Community Forum Archive 2
Covering threads with a last post date between
July 1, 2004 and December 31, 2005.
THIS IS A READ ONLY SITE
 


 

SEARCH  |  ARCHIVE 1 MAIN SITE

 
Forum Jump
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 10-12-2004, 12:34 AM   #91 (Print)
cwerdna
Proud Tivolutionary
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 927
Quote:
Originally posted by parzec
Why not just program the Tivo to add up the number of minutes of recordings in the suggestions list and create a bar graph of that number??? Not very complicated - it autmatically takes into account your default recording quality and the amount of space to be used for future to-do's.... Geez - this isn't rocket science

But your default isn't necessarily what your upcoming recordings are in. I could have 24 hours of stuff scheduled tomorrow all in best when my default is basic.

BTW, not everyone agrees on the defintion of "free space". See the poll http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-v...&threadid=99031.

__________________
When talking about cable company DVRs, please state the software it's running!

RCA DVR80
TiVos w/lifetime: Sony SVR-2000, Philips HDR212, Tivo TCD540080
cwerdna is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 10-12-2004, 06:12 AM   #92 (Print)
CrispyCritter
Purple Ribbon Wearer
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: North Potomac, MD
Posts: 1,194
Quote:
Originally posted by rseligman
To restate what I said before, I know of no situations in which TiVo will record something not explicitly requested. I'm sure your scenarios, no matter what they are, involve explicit scheduling, because without an explicit request to record a show, TiVo is a doorstop. But I'm curious to hear your scenarios.
Rseligman, you're the one who editted my full quote: I said only that the user had made no explicit request to record (or change recording options) during the 10 minute period, I didn't say that the recording wasn't caused by some (past or present) user action. In case you're worried about things taking a while to happen on the TiVo, I'll extend it to no explicit request within 2-3 hours of the period.

All of these (well, one is too obvious and I only counted it because somebody else would have counted it in the discussion) have been discussed in the past. All of them are the user's "fault"; if they understood the algorithms better, they could avoid the underdesirable behavior. The fact that a veteran can't remember them indicates an average TiVo user could very easily get caught by them. And I've seen users get very upset at TiVo by them already, in the rare instances where they've affected deletion within the normal 2-day period.

Why should TiVo put in a feature to encourage behavior (micro-managing) that will increase the number of people seriously upset at TiVo?

__________________
CrispyCritter
Phillips 112:Ben(107 hrs,Lifetime,3.0) T2(unsub)
TiVo:Sue-ing(186 hrs,Monthly) Fred(80hrs,Lifetime) Barney(127hrs,Lifetime) All 7.1a
CrispyCritter is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 10-12-2004, 09:49 AM   #93 (Print)
Fofer
Blah blah blah
 
Fofer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 17,104
Send a message via AIM to Fofer
...yadda yadda yadda. C'mon, what're the scenarios? Inquiring minds wanna know.

If they're legitimate, I can stop lamenting the lack of a TiVo Gas Gauge.
Fofer is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 10-12-2004, 01:19 PM   #94 (Print)
rseligman
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: CA
Posts: 1,077
You're right, I apologize. I must have glossed over your "during that 10 minutes" qualification, and then didn't include it when I quoted you.

Meanwhile, it's tough to consider your scenarios when you don't reveal them; I haven't bothered giving it much thought, myself. Although I'm inclined to believe that regardless of what they are, it's still more helpful for the common case to have an FSI, even if there's a big disclaimer on the screen about how it's a snapshot of the current moment and is at the whim of TiVo's scheduling.
rseligman is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 10-12-2004, 02:20 PM   #95 (Print)
Crrink
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 1,643
IIRC, one of CrispyCritter's big arguments against a FSI is that HMO makes it far too complicated for the average human to use.
He has cited a scenario that goes something like this:
(Please note, CC, if I have this wrong, I apologize, but since you insisted on being coy so you could feel like you're smarter than most of us, this is what you get - please correct any inaccuracies I attribute).

A dumb guy checks his ToDo List, see's (say) 5 hours of recordings scheduled, checks his FSI and sees 6 hours free and thinks, great, I'm set.
The dumb guy then transfers a 3 hour Hockey game recorded at best quality on another TiVo via HMO.

Dumb guy is shocked, angry, and ultimately driven to suicide when he finishes the hockey game and realizes that several of his favorite shows got deleted, even though his satanic TiVo told him he had 6 hours of free space left.

Part of CC's objection seems to be that with HMO you can transfer a show faster than real time. That coupled with the idea that people will be confused that 6 'hours' of Basic quality equals less than 3 'hours' of Best quality.
Apparently the dumb guy's default recording level was Basic, so his Best hockey game ate up all his free space and more.

All reasonable people respond to such a scenario by saying, DUH!
Anyone who would be surprised by this scenario would realize their mistake and not make it again.
Anybody incapable of understanding this idea would likely be incapable of comprehending a TV show anyway, so they wouldn't be a TiVo customer to begin with.

To further protect from such disasters, TiVo could flash a warning on the screen any time a show had to be deleted - the way it does when it has to make a channel change to record a show. Then, thank the gods, the dumb guy (assuming he can read) would have realized his error, canceled his HMO transfer and could choose to watch the hockey game in the bedroom. No anger, no suicide, and everyone is free to go on vacation content that their TiVo's won't delete any of their shows.
Crrink is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 10-12-2004, 02:27 PM   #96 (Print)
Fofer
Blah blah blah
 
Fofer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 17,104
Send a message via AIM to Fofer
<sniff> But DirecTiVo's have no HMO <sniff>
Fofer is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 10-12-2004, 02:43 PM   #97 (Print)
Uploadjoe
New Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 24
So every feature should be designed so that the person of the lowest understanding can comprehend it.

The same guy should be mad because his 40 hour TiVo only records 10 hours at Best. Since Basic is horrible quality.

I know my TiVo understands all these "complicated" space management issues because whenever I change when I want a show deleted it tells me I will need to delete show X, Y, & Z early. So if they'd just add the guage a decent amount of users would be happy.
Uploadjoe is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 10-12-2004, 03:34 PM   #98 (Print)
rseligman
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: CA
Posts: 1,077
Quote:
Originally posted by Crrink
Anyone who would be surprised by this scenario would realize their mistake and not make it again.
No matter what FSI-confusing scenario one can come up with, the above statement applies. That's why it's silly to omit the feature because of these scenarios. Even the worst of them could be only momentarily confusing, not perpetually confusing.
rseligman is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 10-12-2004, 03:37 PM   #99 (Print)
rseligman
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: CA
Posts: 1,077
Quote:
Originally posted by Fofer
I cringed too, but according to dictionary.com apparently the two spellings are interchangeable.
The spell checker on this forum doesn't know "gauge". But it knows "gage", surprisingly.
rseligman is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 10-12-2004, 08:23 PM   #100 (Print)
DocNo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 181
Arrow

Quote:
Originally posted by ErictheHank
How, where? TELL ME MAN!!!!


http://tivo.fp2000.org/twp/

Enjoy <sniff>
DocNo is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 10-12-2004, 08:41 PM   #101 (Print)
Fofer
Blah blah blah
 
Fofer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 17,104
Send a message via AIM to Fofer
Quote:
Originally posted by DocNo
http://tivo.fp2000.org/twp/

Enjoy <sniff>


TiVoWebPlus on it's own does not allow one to configure their TiVos as a collective recording pool.

The closest thing I know about so far is sanderton's add-on module that allows you to resolve conflicts, passing them onto a secondary TiVo, but that's a bit different (and it's not entirely automated, AFAIK.)
Fofer is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 10-12-2004, 08:45 PM   #102 (Print)
DocNo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 181
Quote:
Originally posted by Fofer
The closest thing I know about so far is sanderton's add-on module that allows you to resolve conflicts, passing them onto a secondary TiVo, but that's a bit different (and it's not entirely automated, AFAIK.)


Ah, that's the one! Thanks...
DocNo is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 10-12-2004, 10:01 PM   #103 (Print)
Yike
TiVo n00b
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 28
Quote:
Originally posted by Stanley Rohner
Why do people have such a fit about this!?

If you want to record something and it tells you - Not enough space remaining or something of that nature I guess that means you don't have enough space left. If this happens a lot you probably should consider expanding your storage capacity.

Do some people lay awake in bed all night thinking to themselves or screaming out loud - How much space is left on the my TiVo??!! How much space is left on my TiVo??!!


OH DEAR GOD, SOMEONE DOESN'T AGREE WITH ME, lets make fun of them!

I think it is funny watching geeks getting upset not being able to figure out why so and so bothers someone, or they'd like to suggest a feature that isn't here. GOD FORBID THIS PERSON IS NOT A POST WHORING GEEK LIKE YOURSELF, be cause otherwise they are stupid for not having the exact same opinions!

__________________
I'd rather be rich than stupid.
Yike is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 10-13-2004, 09:54 AM   #104 (Print)
CrispyCritter
Purple Ribbon Wearer
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: North Potomac, MD
Posts: 1,194
here's my three scenarios for loss of saved shows, sorry for the delay.

1. The obvious one that I think we all agree is not a problem for TiVo or the users, is just the long-lost wishlist suddenly recording something major. The users will not be upset at TiVo for that.

2. The second is the one that Crrink somewhat confusingly referred to: the watching of 10 minutes of a hockey game recorded at Best quality via HMO. "What do you mean I lost a show? I had 4 hours free and all I did was watch 10 minutes of a show! I even told it I was done with it; no way was that 4 hours of recording."
Of course, all users should know that while listening to music via HMO requires no disk space, watching a show via HMO is inherently different. And all users should know that TiVo will reserve enough space for the entire show before the transfer starts, not deleting things as it really needs the space. Right

3. The third is KUID season passes. TiVo will reserve space for a scheduled KUID show as soon as it knows about it. That means that if TiVo is indexing guide data and discovers that there will be a KUID show in 12 days, it will reserve space for it now. The user has done nothing, but suddenly has lost however many hours. The result is a very surprised, and unhappy, user.

Remember, you and I and the majority of people reading this message are not the target market for TiVo. We are much more technically adept; we're willing to put the effort into understanding TiVo algorithms and have the background to do so. The target market is suspicious of a high-tech gizmo and doesn't trust that it will fulfill its promises (you see the surprised users here all the time: "TiVo really is as great is people say!") This trust is endangered by a detailed FSI: "I trusted TiVo that I had 4 hours left. It's obvious to me what that means and TiVo failed me."

Above everything else, TiVo cannot afford to have the target market thinking that TiVo cannot be trusted.

__________________
CrispyCritter
Phillips 112:Ben(107 hrs,Lifetime,3.0) T2(unsub)
TiVo:Sue-ing(186 hrs,Monthly) Fred(80hrs,Lifetime) Barney(127hrs,Lifetime) All 7.1a
CrispyCritter is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 10-13-2004, 10:06 AM   #105 (Print)
CrispyCritter
Purple Ribbon Wearer
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: North Potomac, MD
Posts: 1,194
Quote:
Originally posted by Crrink
To further protect from such disasters, TiVo could flash a warning on the screen any time a show had to be deleted - the way it does when it has to make a channel change to record a show. Then, thank the gods, the dumb guy (assuming he can read) would have realized his error, canceled his HMO transfer and could choose to watch the hockey game in the bedroom. No anger, no suicide, and everyone is free to go on vacation content that their TiVo's won't delete any of their shows.
So in order to offer your version of FSI, you're going to inflict gross pain on everybody, interrupting their TV experience every time the TiVo scheduler decides to delete a show? You can't be serious!

__________________
CrispyCritter
Phillips 112:Ben(107 hrs,Lifetime,3.0) T2(unsub)
TiVo:Sue-ing(186 hrs,Monthly) Fred(80hrs,Lifetime) Barney(127hrs,Lifetime) All 7.1a
CrispyCritter is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 10-13-2004, 10:19 AM   #106 (Print)
ZeoTiVo
fantastic four TiVos
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 7,704
what about a simple you have x hours available for suggestions.
since suggestions record at default setting (I assume) and TiVo knows if it has room to record a suggestion or not then it must know how many hours it has available for suggestions.

this can be shown whether suggestions are recorded or not and it would be the total hours open for suggestions - if you record them then it could have hours recorded and hours left as a sub line of data.
ZeoTiVo is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 10-13-2004, 11:14 AM   #107 (Print)
CrispyCritter
Purple Ribbon Wearer
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: North Potomac, MD
Posts: 1,194
Quote:
Originally posted by ZeoTiVo
what about a simple you have x hours available for suggestions.
since suggestions record at default setting (I assume) and TiVo knows if it has room to record a suggestion or not then it must know how many hours it has available for suggestions.

this can be shown whether suggestions are recorded or not and it would be the total hours open for suggestions - if you record them then it could have hours recorded and hours left as a sub line of data.
I'm not sure why you regard this as better than an hours left FSI; and it suffers from the same problems.

Besides, your logical inference isn't quite right. In order to record a suggestion, you only have to know there is enough space, not exactly how many hours are left. It could very easily be the case that the TiVo knows it has X plus or minus N hours available (N a fuzziness factor to account for all the strange odd things the scheduler can do). Then a suggestion is recorded only if X - N is greater than the length of the suggestion.

__________________
CrispyCritter
Phillips 112:Ben(107 hrs,Lifetime,3.0) T2(unsub)
TiVo:Sue-ing(186 hrs,Monthly) Fred(80hrs,Lifetime) Barney(127hrs,Lifetime) All 7.1a
CrispyCritter is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 10-13-2004, 11:25 AM   #108 (Print)
ZeoTiVo
fantastic four TiVos
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 7,704
Quote:
Originally posted by CrispyCritter
I'm not sure why you regard this as better than an hours left FSI; and it suffers from the same problems.

Besides, your logical inference isn't quite right. In order to record a suggestion, you only have to know there is enough space, not exactly how many hours are left. It could very easily be the case that the TiVo knows it has X plus or minus N hours available (N a fuzziness factor to account for all the strange odd things the scheduler can do). Then a suggestion is recorded only if X - N is greater than the length of the suggestion.



it becomes an hours left FSI but is tied to suggestions as the code is already there in some form so pretty easy to implement as the suggestion code is well tested by now and has not led to deliberate recordings being deleted when space gets down low. It is not better than hours left FSI it is just without the fuss of it being an official FSI. It is merely how many hours are available for recording suggestions at a given time. This gives you an indication of space avaialable before delete without having to record suggestions and people (even non technical ones) would use it as a guage instead of an absolute like any official FSI would be expected to be.
ZeoTiVo is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 10-13-2004, 11:27 AM   #109 (Print)
Crrink
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 1,643
Quote:
Originally posted by CrispyCritter
So in order to offer your version of FSI, you're going to inflict gross pain on everybody, interrupting their TV experience every time the TiVo scheduler decides to delete a show? You can't be serious!


Since the goal of most users clamoring for a FSI is to lose no shows by accident, then yes, I think a warning screen would be fine.
Last year, before I upgraded my TiVo's, I did my best to manage space and I had maybe 3-5 shows deleted by TiVo, rather than by me (this was due to shows piling up on a SP that was set to keep 10 episodes only - I lost a few before I realized I had to bump up the KAM value).

And I'm not talking about a screen you have to click through, I'm talking about something that stays on the screen for a minute or two the way the "TiVo needs to change the channel" screen does. That way, a user would likely only see the screen if s/he was making a change in that was going to end up eating up space i.e. a HMO transfer, scheduling a new KUID show, etc.

For those of you who apparently don't mind unwatched shows getting deleted, have a user setting to enable/disable this warning message.

It doesn't sound like the infliction of gross pain to me, but perhaps I haven't considered things as carefully as you have.

Out of curiosity, how do you ensure that shows you want to watch don't get deleted?
Crrink is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 10-13-2004, 11:40 AM   #110 (Print)
Crrink
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 1,643
Quote:
Originally posted by CrispyCritter

SNIP
1. The obvious one that I think we all agree is not a problem for TiVo or the users, is just the long-lost wishlist suddenly recording something major. The users will not be upset at TiVo for that.
SNIP
2. Of course, all users should know that while listening to music via HMO requires no disk space, watching a show via HMO is inherently different. And all users should know that TiVo will reserve enough space for the entire show before the transfer starts, not deleting things as it really needs the space. Right

3. The third is KUID season passes. TiVo will reserve space for a scheduled KUID show as soon as it knows about it. That means that if TiVo is indexing guide data and discovers that there will be a KUID show in 12 days, it will reserve space for it now. The user has done nothing, but suddenly has lost however many hours. The result is a very surprised, and unhappy, user.

SNIP


Okay, so by your own admission, #1 is a non-issue.

#2 would be an issue once only for anybody smart enough to operate a TiVo remote, and could further be mitigated by the warning screen of horrible pain that you took issue with earlier.

#3 again could be mitigated by the warning screen of satan, and if we had a reliable FSI, the need to set a show KUID would be much less than it is today - perhaps people would use that setting more sparingly.

I mean, the real point is that we are all open to ALL of these pitfalls right now. The Expiration icon means very little to most TiVo users since even stock units routinely have dozens of Expired shows sitting there waiting to be watched.
I don't think you're correct in your assertion that the average TiVo user would take the information provided by a FSI as holy writ - and if they did, after the first problem they'd quickly learn that they shouldn't.

Same risk of losing shows, better capability to avoid it.
That's what I want.
Crrink is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 10-13-2004, 01:04 PM   #111 (Print)
CrispyCritter
Purple Ribbon Wearer
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: North Potomac, MD
Posts: 1,194
Quote:
Originally posted by Crrink
I don't think you're correct in your assertion that the average TiVo user would take the information provided by a FSI as holy writ - and if they did, after the first problem they'd quickly learn that they shouldn't.
So in your opinion, the average user shouldn't trust TiVo to begin with, but if they do they'll learn that they shouldn't? And then they'll be happy? Amazing. Different strokes for different folks, but please do not impose this world view on me. I want to trust the companies I deal with.

__________________
CrispyCritter
Phillips 112:Ben(107 hrs,Lifetime,3.0) T2(unsub)
TiVo:Sue-ing(186 hrs,Monthly) Fred(80hrs,Lifetime) Barney(127hrs,Lifetime) All 7.1a
CrispyCritter is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 10-13-2004, 01:32 PM   #112 (Print)
Crrink
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 1,643
Quote:
Originally posted by CrispyCritter
So in your opinion, the average user shouldn't trust TiVo to begin with, but if they do they'll learn that they shouldn't? And then they'll be happy? Amazing. Different strokes for different folks, but please do not impose this world view on me. I want to trust the companies I deal with.


No, that isn't my view at all, and I don't think your hyperbole moves the discussion forward in any way.
At least the hyperbole I use is funny

Your assertions are all based on assumptions you believe that many TiVo users will make about what the FSI represents, what the deletion algorithms of TiVo are, etc.

What my solution will do is provide a way for people who are aware of these things to better manage free space.

Those who do not currently understand these things will likely get burned by one of them, but will also likely learn from the experience, and be able to better manage free space from then on.

This would be better than the current situation because as it is now, people already can't "trust TiVo" to use your exaggerated phraseology. When they want to calculate free space they have to either guess or count up Suggestions and scheduled shows. Both of these methods are less accurate than a FSI would be, therefore both of these methods are MORE open to this horrible loss of trust in TiVo Inc. that you fear.

Since you are so morbidly afraid of this horrendous loss of trust in TiVo, you should join the rest of us in our crusade for a FSI which can only help to safeguard TiVo Inc.'s precious honor.
For God, For Country, For TiVo!

Last edited by Crrink : 10-13-2004 at 01:40 PM.
Crrink is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 10-13-2004, 02:00 PM   #113 (Print)
Fofer
Blah blah blah
 
Fofer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 17,104
Send a message via AIM to Fofer
...or just install TiVoWeb and be done with it.
Fofer is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 10-13-2004, 02:28 PM   #114 (Print)
Qunchuy
Registered User
 
Qunchuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Midwest US
Posts: 43
Quote:
Originally posted by Crrink
Out of curiosity, how do you ensure that shows you want to watch don't get deleted?

I tell the TiVo to keep such shows until I delete them myself. The only other way I can think of to ensure that they stay around indefinitely is to disconnect the TiVo so that no new shows can be recorded.

I honestly do not understand the appeal of a free space indicator. My TiVo should always have as much to offer as it can hold. Anything other than zero free space is an aberration.
Qunchuy is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 10-13-2004, 02:31 PM   #115 (Print)
mmascari
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 462
Quote:
Originally posted by Crrink
Out of curiosity, how do you ensure that shows you want to watch don't get deleted?


Change the expiration date to later than today.

A better way to manage expirations dates relative to other programs would be helpful. Especially a way to manage the dates of two shows relative to each other, but still in the past.
mmascari is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 10-13-2004, 02:56 PM   #116 (Print)
rseligman
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: CA
Posts: 1,077
Quote:
Originally posted by CrispyCritter
here's my three scenarios for loss of saved shows
#1 is not an issue. The show doesn't "suddenly" record. It's listed in the ToDo list long before it records (ignoring, as we are, last minute schedule changes).

#2 I don't think is an issue either. First of all, the situation you describe isn't an everyday occurrence. Second, I believe the screen is clear that it's transferring the show, not streaming it. So it should be obvious that it counts as a recording that requires space be made available. And if you don't think it's that obvious, then TiVo could easily add text that says some shows may need to be deleted to make room for the transfer, or even add the same warning message that exists today, about how show x will be deleted to make room for the new recording. Any way you slice it, this scenario is solvable with an easy, non-intrusive UI change.

#3 sounds like a TiVo bug. I can't think of why TiVo needs to reserve space now for a show that will be recorded in 12 days. It doesn't do that for expirable shows, so it shouldn't do that for KUID shows.

Quote:
This trust is endangered by a detailed FSI: "I trusted TiVo that I had 4 hours left. It's obvious to me what that means and TiVo failed me."
I don't mean to insult you specifically, but the general attitude that there's no way to design an FSI UI that is understandable shows a lack of imagination. TiVo has good UI designers, test groups, and all the ideas on this forum at their disposal.

I think it's a matter of when, not if, they include an FSI. You keep pointing out how we are more technical than the average user, and so I fully expect this forum to be filled with reports of corner cases where the official FSI isn't accurate. But I believe there is a design that will satisfy the vast majority of users and scenarios.
rseligman is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 10-13-2004, 03:05 PM   #117 (Print)
rseligman
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: CA
Posts: 1,077
Quote:
Originally posted by ZeoTiVo
what about a simple you have x hours available for suggestions.
Quote:
Originally posted by CrispyCritter
I'm not sure why you regard this as better than an hours left FSI; and it suffers from the same problems.
The widely accepted FSI workaround is to add up the number of suggestions recorded. So why would providing this number on a TiVo screen be any worse? I think that's a fine FSI: "You have n hours available at the default qualify (Basic)"
Quote:
It could very easily be the case that the TiVo knows it has X plus or minus N hours available (N a fuzziness factor to account for all the strange odd things the scheduler can do). Then a suggestion is recorded only if X - N is greater than the length of the suggestion.
Again, you're introducing the "know about the future" factor. I don't know if TiVo's suggestion algorithm actually peeks into the future or not, but that's irrelevant. All anyone wants from an FSI is "right now". No fuzziness factors need apply.
rseligman is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 10-13-2004, 03:09 PM   #118 (Print)
ccwf
国際化 Member
 
ccwf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Malibu
Posts: 8,626
Send a message via AIM to ccwf
If this topic had been appropriately titled, I would have poked my head in before now. Many points:
  • The TiVoWebPlus/TiVo Web FSI is not entirely accurate. Nevertheless, it's close enough that I use it myself. A lot.
  • You can see scheduled suggestions via backdoors in addition to TiVoWebPlus or TiVo Web.
  • gauge and gage are not interchangeable. For example, a Google search for "gage theory" will turn up a few hits about the theory of (mechanical) gages, whereas a search for "gauge theory" will turn up a bunch of hits on, well, gauge theory (related to gauge symmetry).
  • Not only does Stuart Anderton have a module for helping to resolve conflicts for those with multiple TiVo DVRs, he also wrote one long ago that automatically tells a free TiVo DVR to record the conflicting show. But, he wrote, he found it not to be as useful as he initially thought it would be.
ccwf is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 10-13-2004, 03:13 PM   #119 (Print)
rseligman
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: CA
Posts: 1,077
Quote:
Originally posted by CrispyCritter
So in your opinion, the average user shouldn't trust TiVo to begin with, but if they do they'll learn that they shouldn't?
You must be a republican, since you're turning this into a debate about character.

Seriously, this isn't a trust issue; this is a learn how to use the newfangled technology issue. Just like recording a show doesn't guarantee you'll get the last minute; you might need to learn to pad it. Or that recording an episode doesn't get all the episodes; you need to set up a Season Pass.

These are things that someone might not "get" immediately, but after their first mistake they will. That's very common for technology, and applies to everything from PCs to DVD players.
rseligman is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 10-13-2004, 03:21 PM   #120 (Print)
rseligman
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: CA
Posts: 1,077
Quote:
Originally posted by Qunchuy
I tell the TiVo to keep such shows until I delete them myself. ...I honestly do not understand the appeal of a free space indicator.
One day your TiVo will be full of shows that you actually care about and want to watch, instead of "filler" that you don't care about losing. Then TiVo will have no choice but to either delete a KUID show or not record new shows.

An FSI would give you the opportunity to detect that situation before it occurs. If you're not there yet, then you won't find it helpful. But many other TiVo users are there.

If you have a 100GB hard disk on your computer, I bet you never look at that free space graph in Windows. But people with 20GB disks, or who have large files that take up 99GB, need that free space indicator.

The moral is, just because you don't find a tool personally useful shouldn't impede your ability to see how someone else would.
rseligman is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
 
Forum Jump
Thread Tools

Go Back  TiVo Community Archive2 > Main TiVo Forums > TiVo Coffee House - TiVo Discussion

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:33 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.0.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
(C)opyright - All Rights Reserved. No information may be posted elsewhere without written permission.
TiVo® is a registered trademark of TiVo Inc. This site is not affiliated with TiVo Inc.


Spider History Index