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Old 10-23-2004, 06:53 AM   #1 (Print)
Steve&Lorna
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Exclamation Need better Wireless security - WPA

It's great that wireless 802.11 capabilities can be used, but the limitation of only being able to use WEP and not WPA-PSK encryption is a security concern.

Please remember that an 802.11 network may exist for purposes other than supporting TiVo.

Please add WPA-PSK support.

Thanks.
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Old 10-24-2004, 07:24 PM   #2 (Print)
The_Real_Trebor
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Wink Some other motive?

I agree on wireless security, but are you worried what some hacker would see on your "What's Tivo Playing"?
Hello Playboy 911.

Just kidding!

Trebor.

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Old 10-28-2004, 02:07 PM   #3 (Print)
Snowman
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This is kinda funny... I have a wireless router in hopes that my DTivo will go wireless in the near future (waiting on wireless-g drivers). I was playing around with it yesterday and saw the last name of one neighbor as connected to my router (I have ZERO security on it -- don't need to yet). As I was playing with a Wireless NIC last night, danged if I didn't find a different neighbor's access point to connect to. We are a wireless world.
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Old 10-31-2004, 12:28 AM   #4 (Print)
loghyr
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Thumbs up WPA Needed

Not only is it a security issue - WEP simply does not work on many home networks, and WPA is not only more secure, but it outperforms WEP. The most distant devices on my home network stop receiving when WEP is enabled, but work fine with WPA. To use the TIVO, I have to DISable WPA every few days, and download, and then re-enable WPA - Please TIVO, come into the 21st Century with the rest of us
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Old 11-03-2004, 04:05 PM   #5 (Print)
PhilCase
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Re: WPA Needed

RE Tivo Compatability with WPA

Quote:
Originally posted by loghyr
Please TIVO, come into the 21st Century with the rest of us


Agreed, let me add my voice to this chorus, and amplify the refrain.

Not supporting WPA and asking Tivo users to use insecure WEP on their Wireless LAN in order to stay Tivo compatible is irresponsible.
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Old 11-08-2004, 01:26 PM   #6 (Print)
NotVeryWitty
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Re: Re: WPA Needed

Quote:
Originally posted by PhilCase
Not supporting WPA and asking Tivo users to use insecure WEP on their Wireless LAN in order to stay Tivo compatible is irresponsible.


YES!!!! AGREE 100%!!!
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Old 11-15-2004, 11:16 PM   #7 (Print)
tkn
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I would also like to add my support for this plus support for 802.11g adapters. Honestly, both are well overdue....
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Old 11-16-2004, 11:03 AM   #8 (Print)
awrc
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Interesting Timing

Interesting that I find this thread today - my home wireless network has two Airport Extremes with the TiVo, a couple of Macs and a couple of PCs hanging off it. Since the two hubs are set up in WDS mode (where one acts as a repeater) WPA hadn't really been an issue for me, since it wasn't supported with WDS, but as of today's Airport firmware/driver upgrade, it's now possible to use WPA with WDS.

Except the TiVo doesn't support WPA. I believe it's the only thing on my network that doesn't (although I'm not 100% sure about the laptop running Windows 2000). Even my wireless print server, before it managed to get terminally scrambled during a firmware upgrade, supported WPA.

As for the number of networks I can see, I've found that the TiVo seems to be capable of seeing more networks than any of my machines. Right now I've just popped into the Wireless Settings and, excluding anybody who is running a closed network like myself, I can see *sixteen* wireless networks. There's a bunch of similarly named ones which I think reflect the standard setup of the home networking package of the local telco/DSL provider, there's one with an obscene name that's presumably designed to discourage intruders (which I welcome the presence of, since if anyone's going to do any malicious wireless network hacking, it's the one they'll go right for), one that must be a nearby hotspot for the city's wireless network, several that suggest that the supermarket across the street uses WiFi extensively and insecurely...whoops, make that seventeen, a new one has appeared, no nineteen, another two just popped up. Most of these are probably so distant as to be unusable, but damn...

Living in high-density apartment housing can be interesting.

So, add another voice to the call for WPA. Until then I'll just have to rely on my MAC filters.

Al
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Old 11-16-2004, 05:44 PM   #9 (Print)
anazoal
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Thumbs up Re: Need better Wireless security - WPA

Quote:
Originally posted by Steve&Lorna
It's great that wireless 802.11 capabilities can be used, but the limitation of only being able to use WEP and not WPA-PSK encryption is a security concern.

Please remember that an 802.11 network may exist for purposes other than supporting TiVo.

Please add WPA-PSK support.

Thanks.


Agreed! ...I bought a cheap 802.11b wireless router and set up a second network because there was no way I would compromise my main wireless network with WEP. Unfortunatley, my TiVo can't stream music off my server now.
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Old 01-07-2005, 08:48 PM   #10 (Print)
Alvis
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If Tivo expect me to use upcoming Netflix feature, WPA is a must.
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Old 01-09-2005, 04:59 PM   #11 (Print)
nfg05
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PLEASE add support for wireless G adapters, there's no reason not to at this point G has been out for a long time now why isn't it supported? I already have 3 PC's and a laptop on my G network running WAP. I'm not going to get B adapters and use WEP just to put my tivo's on the network! Does anybody have some kind of time frame as to when G and WAP will be supported by Tivo?
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Old 08-02-2005, 03:22 PM   #12 (Print)
xStainDx
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The lack of WPA (WPA2) Support in the TiVo 7.1b bothers me, now that I want to use wireless for my Tivo in my home I'm forced to degrade the security for other wireless devices on my network WHICH IS UNACCEPTABLE.

This is terrible. TiVo needs to get the 802.11i standard on board tivo asap.
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Old 08-06-2005, 11:16 PM   #13 (Print)
jrocnuck
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I don't get it myself... TIVO is just another Linux box, there are tons of drivers out there in Linux that support WPA. I think they should be able to come up with fixes to their wireless network stack in the kernel relatively quickly, but it's not a money maker... so why would they spend the time? I would think that most of what is out there for all the current linux kernel distributions would already work right out of the box. The problem is their SW engineers will have to go in and add more GUI screens for all the different permutations of security.

Come on TIVO... get with the program before some other group comes out and starts selling really cheap set top boxes with all the goodies in them.
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Old 08-21-2005, 08:21 PM   #14 (Print)
doni49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tkn
I would also like to add my support for this plus support for 802.11g adapters. Honestly, both are well overdue....


Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve&Lorna
It's great that wireless 802.11 capabilities can be used, but the limitation of only being able to use WEP and not WPA-PSK encryption is a security concern.



Please add me to the list of people wanting BOTH.

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Old 08-22-2005, 07:08 PM   #15 (Print)
AntiPC
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I hope they'll work on it too. But come on folks, the one guy who said he got hacked (presumably) had nothing important for anyone to see, used no security, and the network was accessed by a "hacker" who named his computer his own name.

Use WEP, MAC filtering, change all default user names and passwords, and don't broadcast your SSID. Airsnort needs "5 to 10 million packets" to crack a WEP ID, so if you're a paranoid, heavy home user, change your WEP key every week or so and you'll be more than fine.
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Old 08-22-2005, 10:34 PM   #16 (Print)
doni49
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This IS a forum for making feature suggestions isn't it? Well That's what this IS. In the meantime, YES I'm already using the security features.

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Old 08-24-2005, 10:56 AM   #17 (Print)
phil75070
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Another that votes for WPA!

WEP can easily be cracked. MAC addresses can easily be spoofed. Not broadcasting SSID gives a false sense of security. Check the specs on BEACONs and PROBEs; the SSID has to be sent. Unfortunately, the security of the entire network has to be at the lowest common denominator and that is WEP today.
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Old 10-04-2005, 10:08 PM   #18 (Print)
sunman42
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Heads up to TiVO: We want WPA and we want it now

After waiting months to get a new version of the software that was compatible with the 802.11g adapter I'd bought after reading TiVO Support's instructions, I find they still don't offer WPA encryption. There is no way I'm going to leave my home network open to all the known ways of cracking WEP. Are the TiVO networking folks utterly clueless? Please, please do something about this NOW.
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Old 10-05-2005, 10:41 PM   #19 (Print)
isnoop
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Tivo! I went out and spent good money on a USB wireless adapter to get my Tivo on my network. As it turns out, the Tivo doesn't support that model.

Then, I go out and spent more good money on the proper USB wireless adapter. Now I find that Tivo only supports a long-cracked "security" protocol that can now be broken in 3 minutes using freely available tools.

Please, Tivo, add in some WPA-PSK drivers! Because of my business, federal law (HIPAA) requires my network be secured with WPA or better (AES).
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Old 10-06-2005, 12:24 PM   #20 (Print)
petew
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Quote:
Originally Posted by isnoop
Please, Tivo, add in some WPA-PSK drivers! Because of my business, federal law (HIPAA) requires my network be secured with WPA or better (AES).


Agreed, Tivo should add WPA and improve 802.11g support in general but I know they're limitted by available LINUX drivers.

I know it doesn't help wrt to adapters you've already bought, but a tried and tested workaround is to buy a 100BaseT adapter, a short CAT5 cable and a wireless bridge. It performs better and provided the bridge supports WPA you're set.
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Old 10-08-2005, 03:48 PM   #21 (Print)
Shawn95GT
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I have my Tivo Series two using 802.11g and WPA!

Ok, not natively but it works nice:

Tivo --> Netgear FA120 (USB Ethernet) ---> Linksys WRT54GS (running Sveasoft Talisman firmware, setup with WDS, Internet connected) <-------- 802.11g WDS LINK (WPA / AES encrypted) ----------> Linksys WRT54G (also running Sveasoft Talisman firmware, WDS repeater) ---> Wired ethernet clients (and where I run tivo Desktop).

While my Internet is connected on the same side of the WDS link as the Tivo, I can (and will shortly) have a Tivo on the far end of the WDS link.

While I fully support geting native 802.11g & WPA (TKIP and/or AES) support, it is doable now if needed. If you get some routers that support WPA & WDS out of the box you won't even need to go the custom firmware route .

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Old 10-10-2005, 11:25 AM   #22 (Print)
Stormspace
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For those of us in flyover country wireless security really isn't much of an issue. My wireless network doesn't reach beyond my yard, but i can see that people living in more urban areas might want this.

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Old 10-11-2005, 10:00 AM   #23 (Print)
lawilson2
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I'm jumping on this bandwagon as well. I was furious when I found out that I had to downgrade my wireless network to accomodate TIVO. It should be the other way around. How long has WPA been around now? Let's get it together! True, it's my choice to use the wireless to begin with, but I don't want to use my phone line, nor should I have to run a 100ft network cable from my TV to my router in my office on the other side of the house.
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Old 10-13-2005, 10:27 AM   #24 (Print)
Stormspace
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lawilson2
I'm jumping on this bandwagon as well. I was furious when I found out that I had to downgrade my wireless network to accomodate TIVO. It should be the other way around. How long has WPA been around now? Let's get it together! True, it's my choice to use the wireless to begin with, but I don't want to use my phone line, nor should I have to run a 100ft network cable from my TV to my router in my office on the other side of the house.


I am not a TiVo apologist (IANATA) but WPA is newer than TiVo SA2's. Could TiVo have included this in newer machines? Perhaps, but I think that hardware design changes would be prohibitive for a small consumer electronics company. I'm not a 100% familiar with WPA but I know that WEP has a performance hit on the equipment connecting, perhaps WPA's performance degradation is worse, or relies upon hardware. (see point #1)

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Old 10-13-2005, 10:30 AM   #25 (Print)
Stormspace
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Quote:
Originally Posted by isnoop
Tivo! I went out and spent good money on a USB wireless adapter to get my Tivo on my network. As it turns out, the Tivo doesn't support that model.

Then, I go out and spent more good money on the proper USB wireless adapter. Now I find that Tivo only supports a long-cracked "security" protocol that can now be broken in 3 minutes using freely available tools.

Please, Tivo, add in some WPA-PSK drivers! Because of my business, federal law (HIPAA) requires my network be secured with WPA or better (AES).


If you are in health care you can probably afford a wired connection on the TiVo then you don't need WPA.

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Old 10-13-2005, 10:38 AM   #26 (Print)
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Just an update - Using Tivo Desktop 2.2 which will act like a Virtual 2nd Tivo, playback in realtime across the 802.11g / WPA / AES WDS bridge is VERY livable. I gave it a 10-15 second head start and playback didn't hang up at all.

I ran into the buffer when trying to FFW through commercials though .

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Old 10-15-2005, 06:37 PM   #27 (Print)
porieux
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Wow, I just bought 2 80 hour Tivo 2s yesterday, and 2 netgear wireless adapters and I've been pulling my hair out trying to figure out why the wireless won't connect to my network. Of course my network (airport extreme) is using WPA2 and WDS, it wouldn't even have occurred to me in a million years that the Tivo would not recognize WPA...

There is no way I'm reconfiguring my network to a lesser security model. Not going to happen.

This is a deal breaker for me. It was bad enough that their is no MacOSX support, and no support for playback of AAC files, but if wireless isn't going to work at all then these are going back to the store.
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Old 10-15-2005, 06:38 PM   #28 (Print)
porieux
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I don't know why this is in the suggestion forum, this is much more than a suggestion.
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Old 10-15-2005, 11:14 PM   #29 (Print)
isnoop
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormspace
If you are in health care you can probably afford a wired connection on the TiVo then you don't need WPA.

Your opinion is painfully short sighted.
1) Many people don't wish to run wires the length of their home.
2) If it were a matter of being able to afford a solution, wireless is the more expensive of your two options.
3) You apparently assume that everyone in the health care industry is rich. I'd like to name for you a few medical careers that don't make you 6 figures and you can run from home:
  • Massage therapist
  • Home care worker
  • Medical billing
  • Fitness trainer
  • Freelance nurse
  • Many more...
Every one of these jobs might require that you keep client medical records in your home if that's where you base your operations. If you have that data on a computer and that computer is connected to the internet, you must conform to medical laws regarding that data. Those laws include keeping a secure wireless connection.

I'm sure Tivo doesn't much care about this circumstance in specific, but my point in explaining is that there are myriad reasons why people would want a wireless connection that is more secure than the easily-trounced WEP standard.

Again, Tivo, please release support for WPA and perhaps even AES.

Last edited by isnoop : 10-15-2005 at 11:22 PM.
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Old 10-17-2005, 04:31 PM   #30 (Print)
Stormspace
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Quote:
Originally Posted by isnoop
Your opinion is painfully short sighted.
1) Many people don't wish to run wires the length of their home.
2) If it were a matter of being able to afford a solution, wireless is the more expensive of your two options.
3) You apparently assume that everyone in the health care industry is rich. I'd like to name for you a few medical careers that don't make you 6 figures and you can run from home:
  • Massage therapist
  • Home care worker
  • Medical billing
  • Fitness trainer
  • Freelance nurse
  • Many more...
Every one of these jobs might require that you keep client medical records in your home if that's where you base your operations. If you have that data on a computer and that computer is connected to the internet, you must conform to medical laws regarding that data. Those laws include keeping a secure wireless connection.

I'm sure Tivo doesn't much care about this circumstance in specific, but my point in explaining is that there are myriad reasons why people would want a wireless connection that is more secure than the easily-trounced WEP standard.

Again, Tivo, please release support for WPA and perhaps even AES.


I believe it was mentioned above, but if not I'll repeat. You can use wireless bridges between your TiVo and router so that you can use WPA. It's an extra expense and not as affordable as hiring someone to run wires. But it will get you wireless and increase you throughput as well, if you have to have WPA.

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