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Old 11-11-2004, 12:29 AM   #31 (Print)
hefe
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It became pretty apparent as the episode went on that "Sawyer" was in a self-destructive frame of mind. He was setting himself up to be hurt and maybe killed. Not only did he want to be hated, as Kate said, but he wants to be punished. He has become what he hated, and now hates himself for it. Much like abused kids who become abusers later in life. And of course the tough-guy front makes it all the worse, as he can never heal his psychological wounds that way.

Didn't explain what he was doing in Australia, though, did it?

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Old 11-11-2004, 12:47 AM   #32 (Print)
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It was good tonight but my attention was wondering at times. I really could care less about Sawyer (even without his shirt). Let's hurry up and learn more about Sayid!

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Old 11-11-2004, 12:54 AM   #33 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by TiVoLance
It was good tonight but my attention was wondering at times. I really could care less about Sawyer (even without his shirt). Let's hurry up and learn more about Sayid!

couldn't!!
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Old 11-11-2004, 12:59 AM   #34 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by jlb.x
I was amazed that while Jack and Sawyer were dancing back and forth on the beach (the first time, early in the episode, right as Kate walks up and asks what's going on), they were so preoccupied with the asthma medicine and being bad asses to each other, that they completely missed the sailboat out in the ocean. It was right behind Jack's left shoulder in the close-up shots. Oh well, rescue averted. Carry on discussing the merits of each person's back story...


Pretty sure that's just an out of focus branch sticking up. But, it would be a great goof wouldn't it? Sailboat cruising by in the background.

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Old 11-11-2004, 01:44 AM   #35 (Print)
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I'm now pretty much convinced that there's something supernatural going on. It seems awfully coincidental that everyone thusfar ended up on that plane under very unusual circumstances.

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Old 11-11-2004, 02:03 AM   #36 (Print)
S. Stiffler
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Quote:
Originally posted by jlb.x
I was amazed that while Jack and Sawyer were dancing back and forth on the beach (the first time, early in the episode, right as Kate walks up and asks what's going on), they were so preoccupied with the asthma medicine and being bad asses to each other, that they completely missed the sailboat out in the ocean. It was right behind Jack's left shoulder in the close-up shots. Oh well, rescue averted. Carry on discussing the merits of each person's back story...



I just watched it again, but I didn't see anything behind Jack's left shoulder. I did see something over his right shoulder (in the shot you mentioned) that may have looked like a sailboat mast, but it was too irregular shaped for that.

Unless I just can't see it?
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Old 11-11-2004, 02:40 AM   #37 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by 5149.9
Pretty sure that's just an out of focus branch sticking up. But, it would be a great goof wouldn't it? Sailboat cruising by in the background.


Dang. You're right. I didn't even notice the green leafy bushes below the "mast" the first time through.

So... how 'bout them caves... Yep. Nice caves.

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Old 11-11-2004, 03:09 AM   #38 (Print)
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Okay, folks...I was under the mistaken impression that Desperate Housewives was the only new show this season worth watching. I caught last week's episode of Lost, and was immediately drawn in. This week's episode only confirmed my initial reaction.

That said, where can I find detailed synopses of the episodes leading up to last weeks' episode? I'd like to get caught up as much as possible, especially considering that this series seems rife with hidden elements.

Thanks in advance!
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Old 11-11-2004, 05:12 AM   #39 (Print)
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Try televisionwithoutpity.com if you don't mind snark with your synopsis.

Or just download the eps you missed from Suprnova
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Old 11-11-2004, 05:46 AM   #40 (Print)
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Still can't figure out why Korean lady hasn't told her husband that she can speak English. Might be a little useful to be able to communicate.

I have no sympathy for Sawyer. He's a jerk with a death wish. Then again, I don't know why nobody simply asked him if he had the inhalers. I thought his backstory was interesting until the end when it's stated that he became his enemy and he carried that letter around for 25+ years. That seems to be a hack writer's device to me.

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Old 11-11-2004, 06:54 AM   #41 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by zaknafein
I'm now pretty much convinced that there's something supernatural going on. It seems awfully coincidental that everyone thusfar ended up on that plane under very unusual circumstances.


I'm not convinced yet. It would make a pretty boring show if everyone's backstory was that they were traveling to a business meeting, had a happy, normal life, were housewives, etc.


I've got to agree on the music. I hated that song at the end. They just don't fit. I also really hate the "theme" (if it's long enough to call it that). It's so out of place. You get all this high action and drama and then this strange sound and slow moving words. "Alias" has a very simple theme but it fits with the tone of the show.

I hate even worse is ABC's copy of it (not the 2nd version of the logo w/ the island in the foreground) for the end where the word "LOST" isn't on the slant. It looks like a cheesy copy of something already pretty cheesy.

Did Abrams make this one on his Powerbook like he did the "Alias" one?
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Old 11-11-2004, 06:55 AM   #42 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fool Me Twice
Sawyer wanted them to believe he had the medicine. He had it coming.



Yeah, he deserved to be slugged twice without lifting a finger in defense. He deserved to be awaken with a punch, tied to a tree, tortured and stabbed. He had it coming because the rest of the self righteous were sure they were right and he decided not to play, not to talk.

This is essentially the cops determining the guilt of a suspect and then when that suspect chooses not to speak, beating and stabbing him. Just like the cops they get away unpunnished too, not even an "I'm sorry".

I know the writers have set it up so Hero Doc and Sayid are the good guys and Sawyer the bad seed. It's funny to watch people defend those predefined roles regardless of the individual's actions on the island.

Quote:
Originally posted by cwoody222

Did Abrams make this one on his Powerbook like he did the "Alias" one?


lol
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Old 11-11-2004, 07:00 AM   #43 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by bobquin
Okay, folks...I was under the mistaken impression that Desperate Housewives was the only new show this season worth watching. I caught last week's episode of Lost, and was immediately drawn in. This week's episode only confirmed my initial reaction.

That said, where can I find detailed synopses of the episodes leading up to last weeks' episode? I'd like to get caught up as much as possible, especially considering that this series seems rife with hidden elements.

Thanks in advance!


At Television Without Pity of course.
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Old 11-11-2004, 07:01 AM   #44 (Print)
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Originally posted by Fool Me Twice
Zevida, why are you still here? I thought you hated this show.


LOL! You caught me

I didn't watch last week, but I knew this weeks was Sawyer's episode and he is the only character that I liked, so I wanted to see him. I enjoyed the shirtless Sawyer quite a bit. The episdoe was just "eh." I still have an intense desire to find out "what's going to happen" with the supernatural and mysteries, but I think I'll stick to LAX next week.

Could the writers come up with an original storyline for Sawyer? We've now seen the exact same thing twice, and no doubt three times. The water is gone, everyone assumes Sawyer took it, they attack him, he doesn't have it. The medicine is needed, everyone assumes Sawyer took it, they attack him, he doesn't have it. Sayid is attacked, Locke insinuates it was Sawyer, Sayid attacks him and probably it wasn't Sawyer who attacked him. There is never any evidence whatsoever. No doubt Sawyer enjoys plays the a--hole martyr, but did they ever even just flat out ask him "Do you have the medicine?" If they hadn't tortured him first, would they have believed him if he said "no?"

I agree with Billy - this just exposes Jack and Sayid as the self-righteous bullies they keep trying to make Sawyer out to be.
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Old 11-11-2004, 07:39 AM   #45 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by cheesesteak
Still can't figure out why Korean lady hasn't told her husband that she can speak English. Might be a little useful to be able to communicate.

I don't know--if you were stuck on a desert island with lots of loose, sandy soil, would you want to explain to your hyper-controlling, borderline-psycho husband that you had been engaging in an elaborate plan for months if not years to leave him? Or come up with an alternate explanation for how you suddenly speak almost perfect English? I don't blame her for dragging it out as long as possible, although I suspect even she realizes it can't last forever.
Quote:
Originally posted by Billy66
I know the writers have set it up so Hero Doc and Sayid are the good guys and Sawyer the bad seed. It's funny to watch people defend those predefined roles regardless of the individual's actions on the island.

I agree with what you're saying about the viewers, but not about the show! I think this episode they very clearly established exactly what you're saying--that it's NOT black & white, that Jack & Sayid DID go too far, that Sawyer (although he to an extent brought it on himself by not simply saying "I don't have them" in the first place) was NOT a flat-out bad guy, or even a flat-out jerk, and that there is a reason for Sawyer's worse qualities (although in America today it has become somewhat unfashionable to think bad guys might have a reason for being that way).
Quote:
Originally posted by dswallow
couldn't!!

Maybe he cares so little, it doesn't matter to him whether or not he could care less...

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Old 11-11-2004, 07:47 AM   #46 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Billy66
Yeah, he deserved to be slugged twice without lifting a finger in defense. He deserved to be awaken with a punch, tied to a tree, tortured and stabbed. He had it coming because the rest of the self righteous were sure they were right and he decided not to play, not to talk.
I think there were two themes to the interaction between the 3 characters (Doc, Sawyer, Sayid). One of them being the "descent" of the Doc and Sayid in their attempt to deal with Sawyer (and Sayid's later recognition of that). But, I also think Sawyer was "asking for it". Not from being a jerk, but from actually having a desire to get the snot kicked out of him and perhaps die as reparation for his past actions for which he felt tremendous guilt. He had become "Mr. Sawyer", the object of his hatred.
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Old 11-11-2004, 08:04 AM   #47 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rob Helmerichs

I agree with what you're saying about the viewers, but not about the show! I think this episode they very clearly established exactly what you're saying--that it's NOT black & white, that Jack & Sayid DID go too far, that Sawyer (although he to an extent brought it on himself by not simply saying "I don't have them" in the first place) was NOT a flat-out bad guy, or even a flat-out jerk, and that there is a reason for Sawyer's worse qualities (although in America today it has become somewhat unfashionable to think bad guys might have a reason for being that way).


I'm right with ya Rob. The writers set it up initially and then the viewers cling to it even though the actual portrayal as the show moves forward changes.

They set it up so Jack and Sayid are good guys and Sawyer bad, the writers then begin to show the gray, but the viewers seem to have a need for it to remain constant and for Jack and Sayid's actions to be justifyable regardless of what they are. Additionally Sawyer must deserve any fall out from it becuase after all he's the bad guy.
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Old 11-11-2004, 08:22 AM   #48 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Billy66
I'm right with ya Rob. The writers set it up initially and then the viewers cling to it even though the actual portrayal as the show moves forward changes.

They set it up so Jack and Sayid are good guys and Sawyer bad, the writers then begin to show the gray, but the viewers seem to have a need for it to remain constant and for Jack and Sayid's actions to be justifyable regardless of what they are. Additionally Sawyer must deserve any fall out from it becuase after all he's the bad guy.


In Jack's mind Sawyer was, without reason, withholding the inhalers and putting a girls life at risk. I think that as the situation with the girl got worse and worse the limits Jack would go to save here got more extreme. I cannot argue that maybe someone should have asked him if he had the inhalers with a please thrown in for good measure, but I think Jack, based on his perception of the events, was somewhat justified in taking the actions he took.

Sayid on the other hand had reasons beyond saving the girl and stands on difficult moral ground. He apparently realized this and so decided to leave the others for a while.

Everything Sawyer said and did reinforced Jacks feelings that he had the inhalers and did not want to part with them. The entire incident could have been avoided if lifeguard boy had went to Sawyer and asked if he found any inhalers with the book instead of going through his things uninvited. It would have been very interesting to have seen the fight between Sawyer and the lifeguard boy to see if the boy tried to explain what he was looking for.

Anyway, that was some kiss wasn't it?
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Old 11-11-2004, 08:39 AM   #49 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Zevida

I enjoyed the shirtless Sawyer quite a bit.


Was I the only woman / gay man who did NOT enjoy the shirtless Sawyer?

I don't find him sexy or attractive at all.

Jack, OTOH...

I did get excited when I saw Michael Deluise in the guest starring cast... I thought maybe he'd be a reoccurring island castway. Guess not I've been a sucker for him since his old NYPD Blue days.
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Old 11-11-2004, 08:40 AM   #50 (Print)
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I agree with Skittles that I think the shows writers are reading this board:

They addressed Hurley's weight
They addressed mapping the perimiter of the island

Next week they will address the triangulation

btw, I also agree that the previews for next week will end up being Sayid's back story and not what is happening on the island.
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Old 11-11-2004, 08:43 AM   #51 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by cheesesteak
Still can't figure out why Korean lady hasn't told her husband that she can speak English. Might be a little useful to be able to communicate.


Anyone think there's a possibility that ther husband actually heard her speaking english when he saw her talking to Michael?

Of course, he was angry, because she was around someone else, but I'm thinking there's the possibility that he actually heard a bit. Maybe even he thinks Michael is teaching?? That'd do a lot to further the friendly dynamic those two have.
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Old 11-11-2004, 08:49 AM   #52 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by maineman
In Jack's mind Sawyer was, without reason, withholding the inhalers and putting a girls life at risk. I think that as the situation with the girl got worse and worse the limits Jack would go to save here got more extreme. I cannot argue that maybe someone should have asked him if he had the inhalers with a please thrown in for good measure, but I think Jack, based on his perception of the events, was somewhat justified in taking the actions he took.


Wow. I know you really believe it too.

Jack, Mr. Superstar Hero, Spinal Surgeon, obviously well educated, completely abandons an intellectual approach, jumps to conclusions and then acts in a primitive way based on the WRONG conclusion that he deluded himself into. That's justification?

How about this, someone tells me you keyed my car, so I'll come and slug you in the face, drag you into the woods and be party while another guy tortures and stabs you. In the end, I'll be justified because after all, I really believed it was you.
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Old 11-11-2004, 08:50 AM   #53 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Billy66
Yeah, he deserved to be slugged twice without lifting a finger in defense. He deserved to be awaken with a punch, tied to a tree, tortured and stabbed. He had it coming because the rest of the self righteous were sure they were right and he decided not to play, not to talk.

This is essentially the cops determining the guilt of a suspect and then when that suspect chooses not to speak, beating and stabbing him. Just like the cops they get away unpunnished too, not even an "I'm sorry".


Hey, Jack and Sayid had Bad INTEL so they acted on that. When they later found out that Sawyer did not have MMH aka Medicine of Mass Healing.............hey he was a jerk and needed a beat down anyway

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Old 11-11-2004, 08:53 AM   #54 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by cwoody222
Was I the only woman / gay man who did NOT enjoy the shirtless Sawyer?

I don't find him sexy or attractive at all.

Jack, OTOH...

I did get excited when I saw Michael Deluise in the guest starring cast... I thought maybe he'd be a reoccurring island castway. Guess not I've been a sucker for him since his old NYPD Blue days.

I don't care for him; really, only the lifeguard.
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Old 11-11-2004, 08:58 AM   #55 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by cwoody222
I don't find him sexy or attractive at all.

Jack, OTOH...
Between Jack and Sawyer, I'll take the Good Doctor anyday.

(Although Sawyer makes for good eye candy, Matthew Fox is just yummier)

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Old 11-11-2004, 09:00 AM   #56 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Billy66
Wow. I know you really believe it too.

Jack, Mr. Superstar Hero, Spinal Surgeon, obviously well educated, completely abandons an intellectual approach, jumps to conclusions and then acts in a primitive way based on the WRONG conclusion that he deluded himself into. That's justification?

How about this, someone tells me you keyed my car, so I'll come and slug you in the face, drag you into the woods and be party while another guy tortures and stabs you. In the end, I'll be justified because after all, I really believed it was you.


your example is flawed. Sawyer was the one telling Kate that he'd give them to her if she kissed him. That info was passed onto the boys. Using your example that would be like you saying you would show which key you used if the person's girlfriend would make out with you.
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Old 11-11-2004, 09:08 AM   #57 (Print)
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That's weak Pmyers. I'll admit my example is flawed, but you don't think Sawyer not saying he didn't have them justifies what they did do you? Sawyer doesn't have to tell them crap, but they do have an obligation to act in a civilized manner. Beating and torturing someone based on conjecture is certainly not very civilized. And as has been pointed out already, this is the second time they've jumped to conclusions about Sawyer and the second time they were wrong. What will they do next time they suspect him? Sodimize him and skin him alive only to find out they were wrong again?

Quote:
Originally posted by pmyers
Using your example that would be like you saying you would show which key you used if the person's girlfriend would make out with you.


If he did would it be ok for me to torture him then? Would I be justified?
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Old 11-11-2004, 09:14 AM   #58 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Billy66
That's weak Pmyers. I'll admit my example is flawed, but you don't think Sawyer not saying he didn't have them justifies what they did do you?
His point was that Sawyer DID say that he had them...otherwise, he wouldn't be able to trade them for the kiss.

The fact that he was lying is another matter.

But for me, all this just makes it better--it wasn't black and white. I think the point was not whether Jack & Sayid were doing the right thing, but whether they THOUGHT they were doing the right thing, and what that says about them. It was very ambivalent, and I admire that about the show--that it's willing NOT to take a stand on this issue, but rather simply present it in a veyr uncomfortable way.

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Old 11-11-2004, 09:18 AM   #59 (Print)
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Whats going on with that kiss? I was expecting a peck, not a 15 second passionate smooch. Did he some how reach her? She seemed caught up in the moment. WOW!


shannon

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Old 11-11-2004, 09:20 AM   #60 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rob Helmerichs
His point was that Sawyer DID say that he had them...otherwise, he wouldn't be able to trade them for the kiss...


Exactly. If somebody confesses to murder I assume they are guilty and should expect the proper punishment.
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