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Old 11-11-2004, 10:43 AM   #91 (Print)
MacThor
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Sayid's banishing himself. He's not proud of what he did.

Again, the stash was NOT SAWYER's STUFF. It's one thing to violently defend your property. That's not what he was doing.

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Old 11-11-2004, 10:44 AM   #92 (Print)
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I think we can agree that everything that everyone is hoarding that isn't their own personal belongings, should at this point be contributed to the community pot.
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Old 11-11-2004, 10:46 AM   #93 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Skittles

Spoiler Alert! (highlight to read)
Locke is beginning to remind me, more and more, of the shopkeeper from Needful Things. He seems to have something that everyone wants.. indeed, their greatest desire at a particular moment... and in return, he demands that a price be paid... a price that's extracted from a person's spirit, in one way or another. Notice he manipulates things very subtly on the island. Not like Jack, with "I"m your savior" monologues... but in a very silent, almost unnoticeable (to the castaways) manner. He ingrains himself into all the castaways' lives, and makes sure they rely on him. He's building power.



I'm not sure why you spoiler tagged this, as it was an opinion based on things that have happened over the course of the series so far. However, since I want to respond to it, I'll spoiler tag my response as well, even though I really don't consider it a "spoiler":

Spoiler Alert! (highlight to read)

What "price" is Locke exacting from anyone? To the contrary, I find Locke to be almost completely generous. Helping people without asking anything in return.

Several examples:
  • Locke found Walt's dog, but suggested Walt's dad Michael take the dog to his son, and take credit for finding the dog. No "price" asked for. To the contrary, he didn't even want credit for it.
  • Locke has now killed several wild bores, making him a primary contributor of food for the group (others are catching fish and finding edible vegetation). He's doing this freely and not extracting any "price" for doing it.
  • Locke gently and masterfully helped Charlie kick his Heroin addiction. I didn't see him try to exact any "price" from Charlie for doing it. He didn't even demand that Charlie kick the habit. He simply helped him. Charlie willingly handed his drugs over to Locke, who then told him he would have to ask for them back 3 times. Charlie did, and then destroyed the drugs.
  • Locke found Charlie's Guitar for him. What price did he ask for it? Note that this was before Locke helped Charlie kick his drug habit.

So, tell me, what "price" is he asking for these things he is doing for the others?

He has not told anybody that before the crash he was a paraplegic. But heck, I wouldn't either! It's just too weird! The others would think me to be crazy!

I do find the exchange between Locke and Sayed, in which Locke appears to suspect Sawyer of being the one who conked Sayed on the head to be odd. But, I'm betting that Lock is not the person who conked Sayed. Mainly, because "it's too obvious". I believe that when the responsible person is reveled, it will be a surprising twist. I find myself trusting the writers not to stoop to the two-dimensional obvious. I'm betting it wasn't Sawyer and wasn't Locke.


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Old 11-11-2004, 10:56 AM   #94 (Print)
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The only thing I saw as completely unpredictable this week was the kiss.
Seems Freckles was enjoying it a bit more than I would have anticipated.
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Old 11-11-2004, 11:00 AM   #95 (Print)
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Not sure if it's been mentioned in this thread yet or not, but I'd like to point out that I'm not the only one that think Sawyer hit Sayed on the head (remember last week's thread?). Locke and Sayed agree with me.

Ah, but now I'm not so sure. Locke was certainly quick with the information to sway Sayed into thinking it was Sawyer too.
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Old 11-11-2004, 11:03 AM   #96 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by MacThor
Add: Sawyer attacked Sayid just for being an "A-rab."

I'd also like to know what Billy would have done.

lol. I liked Sawyers' line last night. Something like, "I was just tortured by a spinal surgeon and a genu-whine Iraqeee."
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Old 11-11-2004, 11:07 AM   #97 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fish Man
Locke has now killed several wild bores...
Heh. Typos can be SO amusing!

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Old 11-11-2004, 11:12 AM   #98 (Print)
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Maybe the self-imposed banishment is what Sayid "needs" from the island. Locke's conversation with him certainly helped push him in the direction of doing something serious enough that he would leave the others.
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Old 11-11-2004, 11:15 AM   #99 (Print)
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The only way I ever would have kissed that slimeball Sawyer was if beforehand I said "okay, i'll kiss you for the medicine, but you never ask me for anything like that ever again, got it?"

But she didn't say that because I think she sort of liked it.

The torture was way too much too fast, but I suspect they (the writers) just did that to set up the torture next week that Sayid will likely endure. A Karma kind of thing, so it would make a sort of sense.

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Old 11-11-2004, 11:18 AM   #100 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bradc314
Not sure if it's been mentioned in this thread yet or not, but I'd like to point out that I'm not the only one that think Sawyer hit Sayed on the head (remember last week's thread?). Locke and Sayed agree with me.

Ah, but now I'm not so sure. Locke was certainly quick with the information to sway Sayed into thinking it was Sawyer too.


Something to ponder:

What Locke really does is point out that a person being responsible for sending up one of the bottle rockets does not necessarily give that person an alibi for conking Sayid on the head, as they could easily have devised a time-delay fuse.

So, this means that the other person responsible for sending up a rocket, Shannon, is not eliminated as a suspect.

Foreshadowing?

I haven't a clue why Shannon would have a motive, but as I stated in a spoiler-tagged bit above, I believe that when the culprit is reveled, it will be a surprising twist. I. E., definitely not Locke OR Sawyer.

(NOTE: Originally the responsible persons for activating the antennas and sending up rockets were Kate, Boone, and Sayid. However Kate and Boone were called away to help Jack. Boone turned his responsibility for the antenna and rocket over to Shannon, and Kate turned hers over to Sawyer.)

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Old 11-11-2004, 11:20 AM   #101 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fish Man
So, this means that the other person responsible for sending up a rocket, Shannon, is not eliminated as a suspect.

Foreshadowing?

But we SAW Shannon shoot off her rocket.
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Old 11-11-2004, 11:22 AM   #102 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fish Man
So, this means that the other person responsible for sending up a rocket, Shannon, is not eliminated as a suspect.

I think we actually saw Shannon light the bottle-rocket. IIRC she was startled at seeing Sayid's rocket launch and quickly scrambled over to her rocket and lit it.

Edit: stark beat me to it.
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Old 11-11-2004, 11:23 AM   #103 (Print)
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  • I'm starting to think of Locke as the Game Master. He serves both sides - Light and Dark. He does what is necessary to keep the game going. He'll prod and provoke each person to bring out their best and worst. He'll help one person beat his drug habit then turn around and knock [or have someone else knock] another person unconscious and cause suspicions for that attack to be directed toward yet another person.
  • The actor playing Sawyer really should have lost the love handles before the show. Dude, you're on national TV.
  • Quote:
    Originally posted by Billy66
    They set it up so Jack and Sayid are good guys and Sawyer bad, the writers then begin to show the gray, but the viewers seem to have a need for it to remain constant and for Jack and Sayid's actions to be justifyable regardless of what they are. Additionally Sawyer must deserve any fall out from it becuase after all he's the bad guy.
    I'm not sure where that opinion came from. It couldn't have been more clear that Jack and Sayid were upset at themselves for having acted too quickly.

    Sawyer, however takes most of the blame for what happened. He got just what he wanted.
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Old 11-11-2004, 11:28 AM   #104 (Print)
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The person responsible for bonking Sayid over the head will end up being the french woman. She's the other character concerned with or has a history revolving around the radios signal on the island.
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Old 11-11-2004, 11:30 AM   #105 (Print)
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Wait, I think I change my mind re: the french woman. I just found some new spoiler info which makes me think a little different.
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Old 11-11-2004, 11:35 AM   #106 (Print)
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But the second rocket, Sawyer's rocket, didn't go off until after Sayid shot off his.

While Sawyer could time-delay the launching of his rocket, could he time delay it so that it instantly went off after Sayid launched his? Impossible.
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Old 11-11-2004, 11:37 AM   #107 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fish Man
I'm not sure why you spoiler tagged this, as it was an opinion based on things that have happened over the course of the series so far.
Well, part of my speculation was based on the preview for next week's episode, so thats why I spoiler-ized it. Better safe than sorry.

But to answer your spoiler...

Spoiler Alert! (highlight to read)
The preview for next week shows Locke giving Hurley something that he "found", and Hurley going ape over it. I'd bet it's something Hurley needs (more AA batteries for his Discman?).

Locke told Charlie that the island could grant him his deepest desire, but that the island demanded a price in return for everything it gave. I don't think that was just Locke using a ploy to get Charlie off the drugs. I honestly think that Locke believes/d that. Locke also said he wasn't spiritual, yet he looked right into the heart of the island itself, and that it was beautiful.

Something's screwy with Locke. He's been a little "off" since his confrontation with The Beast. I think The Beast / The Island did something to him in that moment. Of course, I'm also a leaner towards the Supernatural in the show.

Locke may not be exacting a price from everyone right now. Certainly, with the food, I think he's just starting out by ingraining himself into the Cavedwellers lives to make sure they see him as strong, reliable, honest, and valuable... so that when he does make his play for power (and trust me, he WILL make a play for power) people won't hesitate to trust him. But look at the case of Charlie's guitar. He made sure Charlie knew that he'd be able to find the Guitar. He told Charlie it was an absolute certainty it was safe and unharmed. But he made sure Charlie knew a price would have to be paid for it. Why? If he knew where it was, why not just get it down and give it to Charlie? Why go through the spiel of explaining that Charlie would be surrendering something if he knew exactly where it was?

That price may not have been demanded right that moment, but Locke doesn't seem like the kind of man to forget when a person is indebted to him. And sooner or later, he's going to come to Charlie (and probably Hurley, and then probably a few others) and ask 'em to pay their tabs.

I have a suspicion (and this is pure speculation with little basis on events in the show) that Locke will end up preying on the folks he knows can be easily manipulated. The people with weaknesses that he can exploit are the ones he'll draw closest.

As far as it being "too obvious" that Locke may have been the one to attack Sayed, I'm somewhat inclined to agree. It's a bit too predictable in a show that thrives on being anything but. At the same time, it's one of the more interesting conclusions you can draw based on the information provided so far. He's one of the few people on the island who is better off (from a personal standpoint) staying Lost rather than being back in civilization. Indeed, I could see him fighting the others to make sure he can STAY on the island.

If you don't mind my asking, Fishman... are you leaning towards the supernatural explanations or the logical ones?


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Old 11-11-2004, 11:38 AM   #108 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Turtleboy
But the second rocket, Sawyer's rocket, didn't go off until after Sayid shot off his.

While Sawyer could time-delay the launching of his rocket, could he time delay it so that it instantly went off after Sayid launched his? Impossible.
True, but remember that Sawyer didn't have to launch his right after Sayed's. They had agreed to shoot off their flares right at 5PM.

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Old 11-11-2004, 11:59 AM   #109 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by stark
Maybe the self-imposed banishment is what Sayid "needs" from the island.


Quote:
Originally posted by 5149.9
The torture was way too much too fast, but I suspect they (the writers) just did that to set up the torture next week that Sayid will likely endure. A Karma kind of thing, so it would make a sort of sense.


Well, the title of next week's episode is "Solitary." So I can see it being symbolic of Sayid's separation from the rest of his new "society," as well as being a clue into his past which we will learn from the flashbacks. Sounds like he may have been imprisoned at some point. I wonder, by whom?

As for the torture, it does certainly seem barbaric to us "civilized" people, but consider that Sayid comes from a part of the world and a previous life where these types of things were much more common, and despite his regret, easier for him to deal with, or at least consider as a necessary alternative. That is a part of the world where they'll cut off the hand of a thief, hold public executions, beheadings, stonings.

I suppose our own ideas about justice are shaped by our culture, but it would be naive to think that things like this do not happen in real life on our behalf. Does anyone believe that there are not military or intelligence personnel working for the U.S. who are not well trained in the science of torture, or that "we" do not use it? Or condone it by not demanding it cease. How many people justify what happened at "Abu Ghraib" because of what they believe is at stake. (And that's just what they were actually caught doing) I guess the rationalization is that you only use it if you have a reason good enough...like to save the life of a suffocating asthmatic?

Now, I'm not saying that I agree that it should have been the next step, or that it would have been necessary at all, just really provoking some thought on the issue from different angles, and pointing out that there isn't really anything unrealistic in the events unfolding as they did.

Of course, don't forget that as a dramatic work of fiction, the torture element sets up conflict, tension, dilemma, adds further complexity to the story, and look what happened to this discussion thread...interest was certainly peaked.

One other thing...
When I saw Sawyer come for the water, I thought they were going to stop him from taking any. After all, he stated that "possession is nine tenths" and this group possessed the water.

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Old 11-11-2004, 12:00 PM   #110 (Print)
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On who knocked out Sayid:

From the characters' standpoint, Sawyer is the most likely suspect. From this viewer's standpoint Sawyer is way too obvious. It'll be someone we're not meant to suspect (or someone not yet introduced).

Claire was missing last week. No one more unlikely than a waddling pregnant girl. Hmmm...

Seriouly though, Locke suggested to Sayid that Sawyer was the culprit. What he was really doing was adding fuel to the fire already inside Sayid. He wants to bring out the dark side of Sayid. He even gave Sayid a knife for "next time". The knife that nearly killed Sawyer. Locke and the island got into Sayid's mind and he was so afraid of what they found there that he had to leave. He just needed to get away from... what? He doesn't know.

"There's something magical about this island, but most people are too afraid to admit it." -- Locke
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Old 11-11-2004, 12:07 PM   #111 (Print)
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I don't buy Locke's theory that *anybody* could *easily* set up a time delay fuse, down to the second no less. What, one of these people is MacGyver? And they all had their watches synchronized? Heck, they all even *had* watches? Don't think so.
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Old 11-11-2004, 12:18 PM   #112 (Print)
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Quote:
...One other thing...
When I saw Sawyer come for the water, I thought they were going to stop him from taking any. After all, he stated that "possession is nine tenths" and this group possessed the water.


I thought the same thing myself. I did post that if Sawyer wants to play that game, then let them "charge" him everytime he wants water.
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Old 11-11-2004, 12:19 PM   #113 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jeeters
I don't buy Locke's theory that *anybody* could *easily* set up a time delay fuse, down to the second no less. What, one of these people is MacGyver? And they all had their watches synchronized? Heck, they all even *had* watches? Don't think so.
Watch the episode again. They do all have watches. Kate even glances at hers a few times when talking to Sawyer, before he drops the bomb that Jack is trapped in the caves.

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Old 11-11-2004, 12:25 PM   #114 (Print)
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I was not thrilled with the Sawyer parts of this episode. I really do not like anything about him and find him discusting. His back story showed what a creap he is. Ya, so his parents died when he was young, deal with it. Lots of people come from unfortunate childhoods and make good of themselves. He needs to be responsible for his choices in life. I do not feel that the writers are adding any 'kindness' to his character, too one dimensional IMHO. I think the torture scene was a set up for next weeks payback.

I figured that he did not have the medicine and thought they jumped way to quickly to torture him. I would have taken all his possesions and denied him fresh watter. Let the group teach him a lession if the girl dies and instead of showing compasion or remorse, he teases everyone into thinking he had the medicine - which wastes everyones time. You need to be part of the group in order to survive.

I also thought the KISS was terribly written. A peck on the check is a kiss. He said one kiss and I counted 3. What gives with Kate? She was way to easy. I would have made him give me the medicine and my word that I would kiss him.

Anyone wonder if Locke is still Locke and not possesed or controlled by the ISLAND?

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Old 11-11-2004, 12:33 PM   #115 (Print)
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Sawyer should have been more greedy!

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Old 11-11-2004, 12:35 PM   #116 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by cvillacci
I also thought the KISS was terribly written. A peck on the check is a kiss. He said one kiss and I counted 3. What gives with Kate? She was way to easy. I would have made him give me the medicine and my word that I would kiss him.
Boy, I think you totally missed the point. The kiss showed that she wasn't as repulsed by the idea as she was trying to lead him and us viewers to believe. She may have actually enjoyed it on some level.
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Old 11-11-2004, 12:36 PM   #117 (Print)
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Sawyer's back-story was told very well, IMO. Who here didn't think it was Sawyer's hot blondie that was killed by her husband? It was a good twist. Evil Villain turned Tragic Victim turned Evil Villain.
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Old 11-11-2004, 12:39 PM   #118 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Skittles
...Something's screwy with Locke. He's been a little "off" since his confrontation with The Beast. I think The Beast / The Island did something to him in that moment. Of course, I'm also a leaner towards the Supernatural in the show. ...
What if Locke is the beast? Maybe the beast killed/stashed Locke, and took his place among the group. It would explain why we haven't "seen" any more of the beast since then.

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Old 11-11-2004, 12:44 PM   #119 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bradc314
Sawyer's back-story was told very well, IMO. Who here didn't think it was Sawyer's hot blondie that was killed by her husband? It was a good twist.
My idiotic mind was even more twisted... When Sawyer 'went weird' after seeing the boy, I at first thought he was realizing that it was his son, assumably because he'd been having the affair with the woman for quite a few years.
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Old 11-11-2004, 12:45 PM   #120 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by T-Wolves
What if Locke is the beast? Maybe the beast killed/stashed Locke, and took his place among the group. It would explain why we haven't "seen" any more of the beast since then.
*nodnod*

I like that theory. It's probably my favorite of the supernatural potentials. That could also explain why we've not had any inkling of The Beast since its confrontation with Locke.

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