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Old 11-17-2004, 02:29 PM   #91 (Print)
rainwater
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Quote:
Originally posted by cwoody222
At what store can I purchase a Moxi box? How much are they? They're $99 after rebate like TiVo I assume, right?


No, they are free and cost less per month than Tivo.
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Old 11-17-2004, 02:30 PM   #92 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by chrisk
This hurts ME.

I bought a Tivo because it allows me to skip commercials. I HATE commercials. I will do anything possible to circumvent commercials. I have a Tivo to block TV ads. I have an iPod so I don't have to listen to ads on the radio. I have a bunch of filtering proxy software in place so I never see ads on the Internet. Now you're telling me that while I am SKIPPING commercials I am going to be forced to watch commercials FROM Tivo? I don't think so. I refuse.



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Old 11-17-2004, 02:31 PM   #93 (Print)
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Tivo vs CableDVR vs media center etc...

Quote:
Originally posted by bigcb37
Anyone that says their cable DVR is as good or better then Tivo instantly loses all credibility in my book. They obviously have no idea what they are talking about.


I've been a Tivo customer for about 5 years now. I had a Series 1, I did the lifetime subscription transfer to a Series 2. So I know what the software can do. I also have a Windows Media center and to be honest, it may not be a whole lot better then Tivo, but I can tell you this: It's GOOD ENOUGH. The key word is "enough". I'm eager to get the Cable DVR, which has Dual Tuners and HD capabilities, for only an additional $5 a month, no hardware costs, no worries if my hardware breaks, etc...

Do I think it will be better then Tivo? Not really, but I do think it will be good enough for a price point that gives me features that I really want. HD and Dual Tuners.

Even currently now, I find myself using my TIVO only as backup for when I can't watch the show in HD or if there is a conflict on my Media Center.

As much as I've been a Tivo Fan and still like my Tivo, I think some of the fans need to be honest and accept that Tivo is no longer the ONLY option out there. 4-5 years ago, it was the only real option and it was the best option and I was proud and gloated about my tivo and people were in awe. Now days, people are not impressed with Tivo anymore, especially for the cost. They are impressed by the Media center and they will be impressed by the HD DVR for $5 a month.

Will I get rid of my Tivo? No, but will it be relegated to a much lower status on my tech totem pole? Yeah probably, because it already has and that's before the HD DVR cable box comes out this month.

As a side note, there are some really good people at Tivo, like TivoPony, etc, but for the people who don't have access to the forums, they have to deal with some of the not so good people at Tivo. If it wasn't for this forum, I'm sure I'd be even less happy about my Tivo. So think about those other people and what they are thinking....

Just my honest $.02

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Old 11-17-2004, 02:33 PM   #94 (Print)
Inundated
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Quote:
Originally posted by nick081472
This is ridiculous. Some of these responses sound suspiciously like TiVo employees trying to boost customer moral. To call advertisements "GREAT" (especially in all caps) is ludicrous.


Since you opened this box up...

I'm sitting here wondering why most of the folks who are upset about this are newbies who have less than 20 posts. It almost makes one wonder how this "invasion" happened. I wasn't going to say anything about it until I saw this message.

BTW, I don't believe advertisements as a rule are "GREAT" (though some are actually clever and well produced), and like most everyone else, I skip through them whenever possible.
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Old 11-17-2004, 02:37 PM   #95 (Print)
rainwater
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Quote:
Originally posted by Inundated
Since you opened this box up...

I'm sitting here wondering why most of the folks who are upset about this are newbies who have less than 20 posts. It almost makes one wonder how this "invasion" happened. I wasn't going to say anything about it until I saw this message.


That's because many of the most devoted supporters of Tivo have high post counts. And many of those refuse to believe there are even alternatives to Tivo, so you can't expect many of them to get upset.
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Old 11-17-2004, 02:38 PM   #96 (Print)
Curtis
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Quote:
Originally posted by Darren
I have no problems with ads in exchange for free entertainment


You don't FF over commercials?
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Old 11-17-2004, 02:41 PM   #97 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fubar411
What a load of whooey. TiVo customer satisfaction stinks. I waited 1/2 an hour on hold when I had the grey screen of death shortly after an update. It was awhile ago, and people made apologies for who was handling it, I think it was Phillips, but TiVo is not a super nice company. They're in it to make money, which they haven't been altogether successful with.
I'm sorry you had a bad experience. And yes, TiVo's customer support could stand improvement. But TiVo customer satisfaction does not "stink", the last numbers I saw put customer loyalty in the high 90's percentage-wise.

I've watched the TiVo company for a number of years now, and I can tell you how they've earned that - by making a good product, and by considering their user's wants and desires whenever some new revenue scheme is proposed. Pre-TiVoCentral ads are gone (I've never actually seen one myself, it was that long ago). You can opt-out of all data collection. The yellow-star ads are easy to ignore and take up no useable space on your unit. In all the years TiVo could have easily said "screw this, if cheesing off loyal customers is what it takes to make more money, let's do it", they haven't. I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt until it's obvious that has changed.

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Old 11-17-2004, 02:43 PM   #98 (Print)
drjlb
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Quote:
Originally posted by TiVoPony
I was very careful in the wording of my previous post: "Nothing changes in terms of your ability to move through a show.". I'm not aware of any discussions regarding that backdoor.

That said, backdoors are simply that, backdoors. Thirty second skip is not a feature of the service, even though some customers have discovered that bit of code.

Pony


Thanks
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Old 11-17-2004, 02:43 PM   #99 (Print)
Inundated
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Quote:
Originally posted by rainwater
That's because many of the most devoted supporters of Tivo have high post counts. And many of those refuse to believe there are even alternatives to Tivo, so you can't expect many of them to get upset.


You make a point here, but consider me.

I'm a regular here. I like my TiVo a lot, but as noted in previous messages, it is now my bedroom unit...a Scientific Atlanta 8000HD (which I consider feature-interface wise inferior) is in my main TV viewing room, and an RF unit feeds to the TiVo video into there.

I fully, fully recognize the challenges TiVo has. For a cable viewer, who has HDTV service especially, it's hard to justify buying a standalone TiVo box with a single tuner that doesn't do HD recording. If I were just starting out now, I may not have even bought the standalone TiVo sitting here in the bedroom now, and that's despite the fact that it has features I like a lot. I may have said "it doesn't do HD? It only has one tuner? Sorry".

So, I'm a user with high post counts, and regular participation here, who recognizes the problem. But I PERSONALLY do not consider this event to be a problem...for ME. Even if it annoys me that 30 second skip goes away (something that has not been brought up except as our own speculation), it's not enough to make me stop using my TiVo box. And if I manage to go to satellite at some point, it certainly wouldn't make me stop considering the HD TiVo for DirecTV.

Not everyone with high post counts is someone who doesn't realize the market forces out there...and I resent the implication that because I don't stand here and say "YES, THIS STINKS, TIVO WILL DIE!", I'm not being honest.
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Old 11-17-2004, 02:48 PM   #100 (Print)
cat_jesus
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Quote:
Originally posted by rainwater
That's because many of the most devoted supporters of Tivo have high post counts. And many of those refuse to believe there are even alternatives to Tivo, so you can't expect many of them to get upset.


My post count is rather low for the amount of time I've been registered. I spend more time watching my Tivo than posting about it. I certainly was a devoted supporter of Tivo. I would like to be again, but it seems my threshold is fast approaching.

Here's the thing and there's no getting around it. Tivo considers you people to be consumers, not customers. The customers are the networks and they will do what they can to please them by using us. They know they can't make all the changes at once so they will slip them in a little at a time, wait for people to get used to them and then continue with another little change. Eventually you'll have less service for more money -- plus full blown ads and the ability to record dictated by the networks. The NFL doesn't want you to keep the game? Too bad for you.

One thing I know for certain, when the time comes for me to make a mythTV I will definitely control it with a Tivo remote.

I'm not some fly by night guy coming in here to raise a stink. I've replaced both my Tivos when they broke and I bought one of the first ones available for over $1200. I don't mind paying for what I want but I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money AND let the networks have the control that I paid to gain.


It's my remote and my Tivo dammit!

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Old 11-17-2004, 02:48 PM   #101 (Print)
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removed: confusing and added nothing to the discussion

Last edited by drjlb : 11-17-2004 at 03:26 PM.
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Old 11-17-2004, 02:51 PM   #102 (Print)
Figaro
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Unless these banners make it impossible to fast forward accurately I don't think that this is something that could make be drop TiVo. Now if they don't come out with a dual tuner standalone box for cable users during the next year or so then I will most certainly dump TiVo. My provider RCN has an HD Dual Tuner PVR box in the pipeline and it looks very very tasty. Would I miss the the benefits that the TiVo slack-ware offers? Yes, but not enough to overcome the money that will be saved with the cable solution.
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Old 11-17-2004, 02:58 PM   #103 (Print)
Dennis Wilkinson
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Quote:
Originally posted by rainwater
That's because many of the most devoted supporters of Tivo have high post counts. And many of those refuse to believe there are even alternatives to Tivo, so you can't expect many of them to get upset.


That'd be a fun conjecture to prove.

You'll find plenty of people here with high post counts that are often very critical of TiVo, and most folks here with high post counts DO seem to give a lot of critical thought towards issues like this one, regardless of which side of the issue they land on. I'll admit to not usually being bothered by TiVo's moves myself, but that shouldn't be taken to imply that I think they're perfect -- they certainly seem to be behind in the OpenCable arena right now. But I can at least see an underlying strategy to the way they conduct their business, and despite the mad panics they do seem to give a more thought to their users than a lot of other companies whose products I've used.

I'm not one to write someone off strictly due to low post counts (although one person did manage to become the first person on my ignore list today, having posted nothing but flamebait in his few posts.) I'd advise against doing the opposite and writing someone off as a blind, thoughtless TiVo fan strictly based on a high post count.

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Old 11-17-2004, 03:02 PM   #104 (Print)
Inundated
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Quote:
Originally posted by cat_jesus
I'm not some fly by night guy coming in here to raise a stink. I've replaced both my Tivos when they broke and I bought one of the first ones available for over $1200. I don't mind paying for what I want but I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money AND let the networks have the control that I paid to gain.


You know, I respect your feelings on this. And I'll tell you...if it comes down to "the networks controlling what we can and can't record, and force us to watch ads", I'd probably stop using my TiVo, too. (I don't consider what we're talking about here to be "forced to watch ads", I mean being forced not to be able to FF through stuff, and being forced to sit and watch a full commercial.)

And I can see how this would be considered one step on that "slippery slope". But it isn't, for me, yet.

I'm not concerned about your posts, or posts from folks like russwong earlier. You're expressing valid concerns. I'm not 100% with you on how it affects ME, but I understand how it affects you.

I was only upset about those basically posting "if you don't think this stinks, you must be a TiVo shill!"
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Old 11-17-2004, 03:10 PM   #105 (Print)
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Actually the "content" isn't Tivo's to sell. Tivo is going to be receiving monies for product they did not produce. and that is a violation of copyright law.

I'll be writing the ABC, CBS, NBC & Fox this afternoon to give them a heads up.
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Old 11-17-2004, 03:15 PM   #106 (Print)
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The problem is that the TIVO is NOT free. You paid for that device, and you paid for the service. Getting ads you don't want is a betrayal of the customer. But look at Best Buy. Some of you are devils.

Now if they wanted to provide a "free" version of the TIVO subscription that was advertiser supported, then I could see this working.

This is one TIVO customer that is starting to look at other options.
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Old 11-17-2004, 03:16 PM   #107 (Print)
W Auggie H
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I have not read through every single comment on this topic yet so I don't know this has been pointed out, but one speculation I read was that in the future TiVo would also be offering a premium service above and beyond what is offered today. That speculation goes on to point out that eliminating those new pop-up adds could be part of that premium service.

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Old 11-17-2004, 03:20 PM   #108 (Print)
rainwater
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Quote:
Originally posted by W Auggie H
I have not read through every single comment on this topic yet so I don't know this has been pointed out, but one speculation I read was that in the future TiVo would also be offering a premium service above and beyond what is offered today. That speculation goes on to point out that eliminating those new pop-up adds could be part of that premium service.


In other words, they will be charging more for certain features when cable dvrs are already cheaper. Are they asking people to go to the cable dvrs?
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Old 11-17-2004, 03:22 PM   #109 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Podcast Bunker
The problem is that the TIVO is NOT free. You paid for that device, and you paid for the service. Getting ads you don't want is a betrayal of the customer. But look at Best Buy. Some of you are devils.


You pay to go to the movies. They put commercials before movies now.

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Old 11-17-2004, 03:25 PM   #110 (Print)
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Alliance of Motion Picture and Television Producers
15503 Ventura Boulevard., Encino, CA 91436, USA.
Telephone: (818) 995-3600

Just gave them a call to see if they knew about this plan to profit illegally from their copy producted intellectual property.
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Old 11-17-2004, 03:27 PM   #111 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by americanway
Alliance of Motion Picture and Television Producers
15503 Ventura Boulevard., Encino, CA 91436, USA.
Telephone: (818) 995-3600

Just gave them a call to see if they knew about this plan to profit illegally from their copy producted intellectual property.


Huh?
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Old 11-17-2004, 03:28 PM   #112 (Print)
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Our new 3-post friend is suggesting that perhaps attaching these advertising tags to commercials is "illegal", I presume.
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Old 11-17-2004, 03:29 PM   #113 (Print)
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It was only a matter of time but I feel betrayed. I pay for the ability to skip past what I don't want to see. TiVo shouldnt present me with other items I don't want to see while I'm doing this. It's just wrong. I'll wait until I see the implementation before going to crazy.

I just find it aggravating that it seems TiVo's focus is now on their advertisers. I feel like they're taking me (and you, and you) for granted. They count on our goodwill. They get hundreds, thousands, of sales from referals from people like us. And they reward us by working dillegently on ways to bombard us with advertising and commerce oppurtunities?

Where is TiVo2Go?
Where is my CableCard TiVo?
Where is my Dual Tuner SA Tivo?
Where is my HD TiVo for Cable TV?

All this said, I am now fairly heavily invested in TiVo technology, so I won't be going anywhere. When I decide to make the jump to HDTV I will be looking at all competitors. And effective today, my TiVo advocacy stops. I'll just tell interested folks to wait a few months to see how things shake out with the Comcast DVR, etc...
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Old 11-17-2004, 03:29 PM   #114 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Turtleboy
Huh?
I agree, that's silly.

The way to go is obviously a class-action lawsuit.


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Old 11-17-2004, 03:30 PM   #115 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by TiVoPony
I was very careful in the wording of my previous post: "Nothing changes in terms of your ability to move through a show.". I'm not aware of any discussions regarding that backdoor.

That said, backdoors are simply that, backdoors. Thirty second skip is not a feature of the service, even though some customers have discovered that bit of code.

Pony


Sweet, I just hope that sometime in the future TiVo doesn't receive pressure to remove this bit of "extra-code" the way Replay did. It was very very smart of TiVo to address skipping commercials the way they did.

That said, how will this new "feature" work if I use 30 second skip?
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Old 11-17-2004, 03:31 PM   #116 (Print)
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3 posts. I have a life. I'm out $1000 for the TIVO/Hughes/Directv box.

Sorry I'm not "qualified" to be upset about being "bait and switched."
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Old 11-17-2004, 03:35 PM   #117 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by americanway
I'm out $1000 for the TIVO/Hughes/Directv box.

being "bait and switched."


Huh?
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Old 11-17-2004, 03:37 PM   #118 (Print)
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I think someone might want to check his User CP functions for the message "You might want to consider changing your posting style". (No, not you, TB! )
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Old 11-17-2004, 03:46 PM   #119 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by americanway
3 posts. I have a life. I'm out $1000 for the TIVO/Hughes/Directv box.

Sorry I'm not "qualified" to be upset about being "bait and switched."


really?

i don't see it affecting the DTV boxes....

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-v...threadid=206538

still don't see where you were baited and switched.

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Old 11-17-2004, 03:46 PM   #120 (Print)
allan
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Quote:
Originally posted by robaustin
You pay to go to the movies. They put commercials before movies now.

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Actually I no longer pay to go to the movies. The new commercials before them weren't the main reason I quit, but they were a factor.

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