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Old 12-14-2004, 12:08 PM   #31 (Print)
TerryD
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next...few...day...???

few as in 3-5?
days as in 24 hour time periods?
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Old 12-14-2004, 12:08 PM   #32 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by LonghornXP
They have never made sense have they. Those jackasses actually suggested doing a software update to block that code from working. Granted they got talked out of it but would that be the biggest waste of money you could ever find.

If the effort spent on this kind of behavior were actually spent to ensuring some of the little missing things made it into updates promptly... *sigh*

We're still waiting on things that would make usability so much better for many: one-step access to enabling/disabling closed captioning; some implementation of native rate switching; possibly even non-linear stretching; fixing the 16:9 display on 4:3 sets at 720p/1080i.

All just as "minor" as worrying about some screen giving away info. And all much more important in the scheme of things to fix than to remove a screen that gives away that info.
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Old 12-14-2004, 12:11 PM   #33 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by dswallow
If the effort spent on this kind of behavior were actually spent to ensuring some of the little missing things made it into updates promptly... *sigh*

We're still waiting on things that would make usability so much better for many: one-step access to enabling/disabling closed captioning; some implementation of native rate switching; possibly even non-linear stretching; fixing the 16:9 display on 4:3 sets at 720p/1080i.

All just as "minor" as worrying about some screen giving away info. And all much more important in the scheme of things to fix than to remove a screen that gives away that info.


If only we lived in a perfect world we wouldn't need these forums but sadly to say we have to deal with people that don't even understand their own customers.
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Old 12-14-2004, 12:12 PM   #34 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by TerryD
next...few...day...???

few as in 3-5?
days as in 24 hour time periods?


Ummmmmmmm, help me out here.
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Old 12-14-2004, 12:15 PM   #35 (Print)
Dan Collins
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The "rigidness" of DirecTV over this issue has to do with their own conflicts over Tivo versus NDS. There's a lot of maneuvering going on inside DirecTV.

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Old 12-14-2004, 12:17 PM   #36 (Print)
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Sorry. Got a little bit ahead of myself.

In the post prior to mine, you say that:

Quote:
Originally posted by LonghornXP
they want to be anal for the next few days thats all.


I'd assume that they want to be anal until there is an official announcement or release of HMO capabilities - between that assumption and the statement of "next few days" I was probably just hearing what I want to hear...that there will be an official announcement or release of HMO capabilities to DTiVo's in the next few days.

Probably just reaching for straws...
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Old 12-14-2004, 12:20 PM   #37 (Print)
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I wouldn't be surprised if a find like this stirs up a few more sales. It is a hint at what is to be. There are plenty of people sitting on the fence on the R10 because there hasn't been any real mention of HMO support. This screen offers a glimmer of hope (OK, a little more than a glimmer perhaps).

Other than that, it doesn't mean a thing. Until the feature is enabled -- either legitimately or otherwise -- there's not much we can do besides keep trying different codes.

If something like this equates to more sales of R10 units, all the better I say. The cat is out of the bag now.

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Old 12-14-2004, 12:22 PM   #38 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by TerryD
Sorry. Got a little bit ahead of myself.

In the post prior to mine, you say that:



I'd assume that they want to be anal until there is an official announcement or release of HMO capabilities - between that assumption and the statement of "next few days" I was probably just hearing what I want to hear...that there will be an official announcement or release of HMO capabilities to DTiVo's in the next few days.

Probably just reaching for straws...


Wishfull thinking but way off. Sorry
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Old 12-14-2004, 12:23 PM   #39 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dan Collins
The "rigidness" of DirecTV over this issue has to do with their own conflicts over Tivo versus NDS. There's a lot of maneuvering going on inside DirecTV.


I'm just begging them to make up their damn minds before 2010.
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Old 12-14-2004, 12:24 PM   #40 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by BubbaTX
I wouldn't be surprised if a find like this stirs up a few more sales. It is a hint at what is to be. There are plenty of people sitting on the fence on the R10 because there hasn't been any real mention of HMO support. This screen offers a glimmer of hope (OK, a little more than a glimmer perhaps).

Other than that, it doesn't mean a thing. Until the feature is enabled -- either legitimately or otherwise -- there's not much we can do besides keep trying different codes.

If something like this equates to more sales of R10 units, all the better I say. The cat is out of the bag now.


There is hope but don't think this news will make HMO appear on our units next week.
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Old 12-14-2004, 12:27 PM   #41 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dan Collins
The "rigidness" of DirecTV over this issue has to do with their own conflicts over Tivo versus NDS. There's a lot of maneuvering going on inside DirecTV.

That's just one more sad thing. That somewhere within DirecTV someone thinks there has to be only one. What can it possibly cost DirecTV to have two DVR solutions? They've had like 15 different receivers for sale (non-DVR) and survived pretty well -- in fact that was yet one thing often compared to Dish Network -- DirecTV's receivers were better.

If they really believe NDS can make something worthwhile, let them, and let the TiVo relationship continue too; let them both feed off each-others innovations.

We know there's a cost for DirecTV to subsidize or to give free/discounted units to customers, but so what? Let them give the cheapest unit to customers by default. In and of itself, I can't see how eliminating one choice helps anyone -- except, maybe, aritifically helps NDS by default of not having TiVo units to choose from. But the economics of these boxes can't be making a huge profit for anybody selling the hardware. Perhaps that monthly fee is up for grabs, but by all reports even that is mostly going to DirecTV's pocket anyway.

DirecTV: embrace the idea of a few options for your customers.

And please channel some of that negative energy to getting some usability updates out there for the TiVo-based units.
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Old 12-14-2004, 12:29 PM   #42 (Print)
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Hey Danny boy do you think they are close to making up their minds on what they want to do. I'm having trouble reading them for some reason. I'm thinking they want to go Tivo all the way but have been touting NDS to get Tivo to maybe give them a better deal and see what customer outrage would be like. I'm not sure but they just haven't seemed to care about NDS specifics as they are with Tivo stuff. Just seems odd tis all.
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Old 12-14-2004, 12:32 PM   #43 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by LonghornXP
There is hope but don't think this news will make HMO appear on our units next week.


I've got my own little theory

I'm betting that there are behind-the-scenes negotiations right now between D* and TiVo for a buyout.

It would totally make sense - D* is TiVo's largest partner. TiVo has a cash crunch.... Whether they want to admit it or not, D* *NEEDS* TiVo software - or you'll just be looking at another Motorola 6*** clone.

Buy TiVo stock now.

Of course the above is strictly my wild imagination at work.... But there is also some logic there - ahhh if only egos didn't have a way of getting IN the way of progress.
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Old 12-14-2004, 12:38 PM   #44 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by dswallow
, I can't see how eliminating one choice helps anyone -- except, maybe, aritifically helps NDS by default of not having TiVo units to choose from. But the economics of these boxes can't be making a huge profit for anybody selling the hardware. Perhaps that monthly fee is up for grabs, but by all reports even that is mostly going to DirecTV's pocket anyway.

DirecTV: embrace the idea of a few options for your customers.

And please channel some of that negative energy to getting some usability updates out there for the TiVo-based units.


Directv is going the other way. All new receivers are Directv branded. They are trying to make it easier to support. By all reports not only is most of the monthly fee staying with Directv (for support) but I've read there is a maximum fee to tivo which Directv is at or near. Having two different vendors would probably increase Directv's software and support costs. The extended NDS delay is increasing the number of pvr's that might have to be swapped out. Certainly increases the possibility of Directv staying with tivo.

If Directv goes to NDS I wonder if NDS will be coming up with software to "upgrade" our existing DVR's.
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Old 12-14-2004, 12:40 PM   #45 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by grodgers
I've got my own little theory

I'm betting that there are behind-the-scenes negotiations right now between D* and TiVo for a buyout.

It would totally make sense - D* is TiVo's largest partner. TiVo has a cash crunch.... Whether they want to admit it or not, D* *NEEDS* TiVo software - or you'll just be looking at another Motorola 6*** clone.

Buy TiVo stock now.

Of course the above is strictly my wild imagination at work.... But there is also some logic there - ahhh if only egos didn't have a way of getting IN the way of progress.


Now I don't know one way or the other but that actually makes sense. It would make quite a bit of sense to Tivo to rework a deal but I think if anything happened it would be more like Tivo partnering with DirecTV than DirecTV buying out Tivo. If DirecTV were to go the networking route and get Tivo to support it and DirecTV would give Tivo a portion of the cost for customers who order HMO that could be possable. I'm not sure about this but it can go many ways but thats very good thinking. Sadly to say I think Tivo would be in very big trouble without DirecTV and I think they know this and might work harder to give DirecTV a better deal than they want because its still better than being gone. I also think DirecTv knows how Tivo helps them and if they cut off Tivo another company like Voom might partner with Tivo and I don't think DirecTV wants this.
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Old 12-14-2004, 12:48 PM   #46 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by lew
Directv is going the other way. All new receivers are Directv branded. They are trying to make it easier to support. By all reports not only is most of the monthly fee staying with Directv (for support) but I've read there is a maximum fee to tivo which Directv is at or near. Having two different vendors would probably increase Directv's software and support costs. The extended NDS delay is increasing the number of pvr's that might have to be swapped out. Certainly increases the possibility of Directv staying with tivo.

If Directv goes to NDS I wonder if NDS will be coming up with software to "upgrade" our existing DVR's.

That's true nowadays, even for the last several years, there've not been that many different designs, but mostly just been relabeled versions of the same thing, with some tweaks to the appearance of menus. Even the different brands of DVR's have all been almost exactly the same hardware. So in that sense I see a general benefit to removing arbitrary differences.

But the concept is sound -- if the costs are minimal or non-existant to offer 2 different choices, you can only have better penetration than if you only had one choice.

It's like owning both a McDonalds and Burger King in the same block. Some may think that's competition and choose one over the other for some reason, but in the end the same company gets your money.
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Old 12-14-2004, 12:55 PM   #47 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by LonghornXP
...their bosses actually emailed them the link to this screenshot...


At least we know they read this forum then. I've never known for sure if they do, but now it seems like we know they do.

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Old 12-14-2004, 12:55 PM   #48 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by LonghornXP
I've asked and they keep saying a small extra flat fee per account not per box. I hope this ends up being true.


Well that is pretty lame considering that TiVo provides this FREE to all customers.

Quote:
Originally posted by LonghornXP
Two of my contacts called me this morning and told me that they got calls from DirecTV (their bosses at DirecTV) telling them they are forbidden to say anything more about anything and they being who they were asked why and their bosses actually emailed them the link to this screenshot. It seems they aren't very happy about this find and have told them all to not talk with anyone.

The point is its interesting none the less even though it means nothing as far as telling us when and I haven't been told when just a general time frame. Fact is they aren't very happy right now. Don't be surprised if you get a call telling yall to take that screen shot down but I don't think you will because its in their software and people can just say the code to others so it might not make any difference. But somebody lost a tooth over this.


Again I say (we already had this brawl), THIS IS NOT UNDER NDA!!!!!!!!! I am not saying who my family at D* in Colorado is but I will say they are not on the software engineering side, nor the CSR side, not the management side ... AND THEY KNOW ABOUT THIS!!! Sure they may have been told the wrong date (Q3 '05) but we all played the "telephone game" in one school or another; and we know what happens with communication breakdown. Okay now to my point ... If the members of my family know, then this is not privileged information, trust me, becuase they would not know if it was.

******** Break ***********

Dear Whiny D* Management,

Thanks for HMO! Oh, but wait, that is right, you didn't give it to me, I had to do it myself! If you plan to plug me for another nickel for something I have ... try me! Take your ego and your checkbook and remember who pays your bills. Idiot.

P.S. I cannot wait until your NDS boxes hit the street, then we can really watch you squirm. Your team of 100 developers is pale in comparison to the Internets million strong pool. Idiot.

One Suggestion: Focus group made up of Internet users (TCF, AVS & SG.us), data checked against "joe user" in El Suckendo, CA

********* Break **************

Sorry all, I had to get it off my chest, since it was obviously ticking me off Earl, thanks again for the post it was worthwhile and informative. I feel bad for Longhorns contacts managers if this is the first time they have looked here ... this should be their homepage
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Old 12-14-2004, 01:04 PM   #49 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by slacker9876
Well that is pretty lame considering that TiVo provides this FREE to all customers.
Yeah, free to all their $12.99/month + $6.99/month extra receiver customers and to their $299/lifetime customers.

A small fee one-time per account to enable the functionality across all DVR's on the account isn't really out of line, or would you prefer a higher monthly charge or per-receiver fee?
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Old 12-14-2004, 01:05 PM   #50 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by dswallow
But the concept is sound -- if the costs are minimal or non-existent to offer 2 different choices, you can only have better penetration than if you only had one choice.

It's like owning both a McDonalds and Burger King in the same block. Some may think that's competition and choose one over the other for some reason, but in the end the same company gets your money.


I don't think your premise is correct. Several people have posted that Directv's royalty to tivo is at or near the cap. It doesn't cost Directv any (or very little) extra to add a new subscriber SO if they added a new vendor the total licensing fees would go up.

A better analagy would be Microsofts licensing agreement when there were other operating systems (OS/2). The royalty was based on total computers shipped regardless of the operating system installed. If a computer compnay wanted to bundle OS/2 they still had to pay Microsoft the same licensing fee.
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Old 12-14-2004, 01:14 PM   #51 (Print)
LonghornXP
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Quote:
Originally posted by slacker9876
Well that is pretty lame considering that TiVo provides this FREE to all customers.

Sorry all, I had to get it off my chest, since it was obviously ticking me off Earl, thanks again for the post it was worthwhile and informative. I feel bad for Longhorns contacts managers if this is the first time they have looked here ... this should be their homepage


What makes you think this was the first time my contacts and there bosses have been on this site. Actually you are very far off on this but just because these people browse on these forums doesn't mean they can get the company to do what we say. I wish it were that simple but my contacts bosses are very nice people but they have always been ass kissers and this was one example of doing just that.

Now I'm not too keen on the NDS but I won't judge it before I see it. Now pricing for HMO isn't known yet and when they pick something it will be under an NDA until they decide when to release this info but just because Tivo offers something for free doesn't mean that DirecTV can't charge 9.95/month per account for Tivo with HMO and charge 4.95/month like they do now for Tivo without HMO. Also I could care less about you not wanting to pay because you get it free now but when they offer HMO if you don't pay you are stealing period. Whether you think its fair , right, moral or what not its still stealing no matter what way you slice it. If you don't like it fine but don't start complaining because I still think you are stealing from Tivo because you are putting HMO on your DirecTivos but only paying 4.95/month per account so you should be paying Tivo 12.95/month along with 6.95/month for each extra Tivo.

Fact is for customers who have two or more Tivos if DirecTV charges 15 bucks a month per account it would still be cheaper than Tivos 20 bucks per month. I'm tired of hearing this crap. You complain about having to pay extra but your fine with stealing from Tivo.
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Old 12-14-2004, 01:18 PM   #52 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by dswallow
Yeah, free to all their $12.99/month + $6.99/month extra receiver customers and to their $299/lifetime customers.

A small fee one-time per account to enable the functionality across all DVR's on the account isn't really out of line, or would you prefer a higher monthly charge or per-receiver fee?


You said it way better than I did. Exactly my point he isn't getting it for free and if he is he is flat out stealing. It may come bundled with Tivo service but that still costs money as you so nicely put it. Thank you very much dswallow for showing this guy the light.
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Old 12-14-2004, 01:26 PM   #53 (Print)
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$4.95 seems to be a target price point.

I pay $4.95 for DirectTivo .
I pay $4.95 for each additional receiver
I'd gladly pay another $4.95 for HMO. MRV is just that important to me and I really just don't have the time to follow the multitude of threads 'over there' to try to hack it myself.

I'll even rush out and buy a new (3rd) DirecTivo as soon as HMO is made available to me.

Then I'll start upgrading Hard Drives.

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Old 12-14-2004, 01:33 PM   #54 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by mphare
$4.95 seems to be a target price point.

I pay $4.95 for DirectTivo .
I pay $4.95 for each additional receiver
I'd gladly pay another $4.95 for HMO. MRV is just that important to me and I really just don't have the time to follow the multitude of threads 'over there' to try to hack it myself.

I'll even rush out and buy a new (3rd) DirecTivo as soon as HMO is made available to me.

Then I'll start upgrading Hard Drives.


Hear Hear! In fact, I would go out and purchase a third receiver, upgrade the HD and then put it in the mechanical room, recording all the things I don't want to record on my HD TiVo. Of course, that assumes that we will be able to transfer from a SD TiVo to a HD TiVo.

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Old 12-14-2004, 01:36 PM   #55 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by mphare
$4.95 seems to be a target price point.

I pay $4.95 for DirectTivo .
I pay $4.95 for each additional receiver
I'd gladly pay another $4.95 for HMO. MRV is just that important to me and I really just don't have the time to follow the multitude of threads 'over there' to try to hack it myself.

I'll even rush out and buy a new (3rd) DirecTivo as soon as HMO is made available to me.

Then I'll start upgrading Hard Drives.


The only thing keeping me from swapping my two SA Series 2 units for DTiVos is no HMO and 4.0 software. If its not added by the time my contract is up I will seriously consider going back to cable And believe me, I would love to be purchasing a HR10-250 to compliment my HDTV but I haven't because I do not want to lose software functionality, folders & HMO. I have found the MRV feature to be very useful, not to mention the ability to look at family photos without huddling around the PC monitor.

So needless to say I would have no problem paying one-time flat fee or monthly fee for HMO use...

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Old 12-14-2004, 01:39 PM   #56 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by LonghornXP
They have never made sense have they. Those jackasses actually suggested doing a software update to block that code from working. Granted they got talked out of it but would that be the biggest waste of money you could ever find.


Amazingly inept. I can safely say that I'm glad I don't work for DTV...or at least, that I don't work for one of the fools that would even suggest this concept...how mind numbingly frustrating that would be...
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Old 12-14-2004, 01:44 PM   #57 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by amgqmp1
Amazingly inept. I can safely say that I'm glad I don't work for DTV...or at least, that I don't work for one of the fools that would even suggest this concept...how mind numbingly frustrating that would be...


That is what I mean by kissing their bosses ass. They sometimes get brain dead if they get into ass kiss mode for too long. They don't actually believe this is a good idea but you can see why they would say something like this when they want something like a raise and such.
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Old 12-14-2004, 01:46 PM   #58 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by grodgers
I've got my own little theory

I'm betting that there are behind-the-scenes negotiations right now between D* and TiVo for a buyout.



I don't think so, given DTV sold their entire stake in Tivo this summer (though the stock's down 40%+ since then).

Also - Tivo doesn't have a cash problem, as far as I can tell. Losses, yes, cash flow problem, no.
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Old 12-14-2004, 01:54 PM   #59 (Print)
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A small fee one-time per account to enable the functionality across all DVR's on the account isn't really out of line, or would you prefer a higher monthly charge or per-receiver fee? [/B]


I've emailed DirecTV customer support and told them I'd gladly pay an extra monthly fee for HMO support.

Also told them that I'm going back to Dish in 6 months if they don't have or have announced HMO functions. I'd give up the integrated dual-tuner to use all the functions of my standalone Tivo boxes.

Maybe, just maybe, some suits at DTV are realizing that they pissed away the last year by sitting on HMO and/or playing the silly NDS game.

Given that MAP of the R10 is $99, I've got to believe that DTV will soon be offering them to all new subs at $0, and probably at a discount to current subs. I'm guessing that the NDS box cost, if we ever see one, won't be that much less and won't be anything people are going to pay a monthly fee for. Yes, DTV pays Tivo about $1.34/month/household, but they collect 4.95 for most PVR users. And no doubt they could EASILY collect a few dollars more for HMO.

Don't see any benefit to an NDS box anymore ...
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Old 12-14-2004, 01:56 PM   #60 (Print)
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This is very good news! I've been considering switching to cable because it's the only way to get "all" HD locals in the Denver suburbs. And, i don't want to buy an HR10-250 just to get Fox and maybe CBS, since most of what we record is off the major networks. If HMO were to become available in the same timeframe as HD Locals from D*, those two things combined might be worth waiting for.
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