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Old 12-15-2004, 10:48 AM   #121 (Print)
slacker9876
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Originally posted by LonghornXP ...It will be a 5x8 multiswitch and it will be designed to allow more than one stream to be sent over any given wire.

So say if we have three DirecTV DVRs named DVR A, B and C using the multiswitch output 1-6 out of 8 total. This system will only support 4 DVRs using both tuners.

Now all of the 6 tuners will work like they do today but this multiswitch will also allow a show to be streamed DVR A over output 1 and the multiswitch will direct the stream to say DVR C over output 6 even if a show is being recorded because the cable itself can handle the data going through it...


This is pretty easy. In addition to being a multiswitch, it would also be an IP-based multiplexer. This is more of a telcom route than an data networking route (usually) but it will all work the same.

Example: No different that what cable does now. I don't know the spectrum so please do not correct, but say you have 12.0GHz - 12.5GHz for your starter, assume your data rate requirement is .1GHz, you have 5 channels. If you wrap you signal into 12.15, 12.16, 12.17, 12.18, etc, you are up to 25 channels.

Fiber is much easier ... simply put there are 16.7M channels (based upon the color spectrum, not including unusable freqs) available and changing the modulation you can send pretty much unlimited voice video and data all on one piece of glass.

Okay so easy in my mind, difficult on paper
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Old 12-15-2004, 10:48 AM   #122 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by LonghornXP

So it looks like we all will need a new multiswitch that would have a built-in router.

D'oh!
What about my 24 port gigabit switch in my server closet? Why not have the option to run over ethernet?

I guess there are security risks in having D* programing on customer's networks (many of which my not have adiquite firewalls). And there is added support costs or concerns... "Sir, is your USB nic wirelss? Do you use WEP? How far is it from your access point?..."
With a routing MulitSwitch at least its a private network so to speak.
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Old 12-15-2004, 10:51 AM   #123 (Print)
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Originally posted by SpaceBass
D'oh!
What about my 24 port gigabit switch in my server closet? Why not have the option to run over ethernet?

I guess there are security risks in having D* programing on customer's networks (many of which my not have adequate firewalls). And there is added support costs or concerns... "Sir, is your USB nic wireless? Do you use WEP? How far is it from your access point?..."
With a routing MulitSwitch at least its a private network so to speak.


Yeah, unauthorized retransmission would be a concern for them via Ethernet. Probably why it looks more like an MRV route than an HMO route. That is good by me, if D* starts offering HMO, I'll have to "legalize" my 4.01 units
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Old 12-15-2004, 10:54 AM   #124 (Print)
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This whole coax networking thing has been mentioned before; and it usre does sound like a bizarre solution and seems to be something that wouldn't be the most likely thing you'd expect a satellite tuning chipset to provide for -- 2 way capabilities.

If such connectivity is true, I figured there'd be a USB device on the receiver side as well which would basically be nothing more than a specialized USB <-> 10Base2 Ethernet device, with some limits on the spectrum used on the coax so as not to interfere with the satellite signal or any diplexed OTA/cable signal and the multiswitch basically combining a 10Base2 ethernet switch as well.

That would then make alternate network wiring/adapter methods compatible.

And it could explain the thought of a "one time fee," too -- to provide for the necessary hardware.

It still seems a bizarre way to handle this.
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Old 12-15-2004, 10:56 AM   #125 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by dswallow
This whole coax networking thing has been mentioned before; and it usre does sound like a bizarre solution and seems to be something that wouldn't be the most likely thing you'd expect a satellite tuning chipset to provide for -- 2 way capabilities.

I was just thinking the same thing. Basically the tuner inputs would also have to be coax NICs... doubtful (though I'm not a TiVo hardware expert).
If they are planing on a USB->Coax NIC then it seems logical that a USB->cat5 would also work on any switched network. Maybe they have to be on their own subnet.... who knows.
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Old 12-15-2004, 11:00 AM   #126 (Print)
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Originally posted by herdfan
Any ideas on how the the coax will connect to the DVR. Are they going to use the USB ports, the RF out(This would eliminate the HR10-250 as it has none. ), or can the current sat in ports be configured for 2 way?


Oh I see what your asking. I've asked and they will have a little device that the cable currently in SAT inputs will plug into and that device will have another two cables that will plug into the SAT inputs and will have another USB plug. Now he hasn't see this but is just saying what he was told.
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Old 12-15-2004, 11:02 AM   #127 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by herdfan
I still have to wonder why D* even released this box. If they plan on moving to an NDS based platform and dumping TiVo after 2007, why bother to do a new release?



It's probably quite simply a cost savings issue. The newer things get the smaller they get and then they can save money on manufacturing costs. Perhaps some of the components they used before are getting more expensive because they are older and therefore not produced in the mass quantities that newer components are. For example it's probably cheapier to get DDR memory in bulk now then the older memory they used to use. I recently had to buy regular old SIMM memory (circa 98') for my laser printer and couldn't believe what it costs for this compared to current DDR PC memory. This is the same reason that Microsoft and Sony keep respinning their console designs for the Xbox and PS2.

The new software could simply be a necessity to support the new hardware that they've moved to.
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Old 12-15-2004, 11:07 AM   #128 (Print)
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Also they do want this to be a closed network that will be secured and locked down. Also I'm also being told they are working on allowing the other HMO features but they must have the sharing of shows locked down. Now because current DTivos have two USB ports they can use one USB port for the MRV side and still allow the other USB port to be used for sharing of video and such from a computer but they want locked down MRV first and foremost.
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Old 12-15-2004, 11:11 AM   #129 (Print)
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whew.. I was worried that the R10's had added the ability to backfeed a signal up through the SAT inputs, through this fancy MS to the other D*Tivos.

This would have precluded this MRV feature working on our existing S2s.

I'm still suprised they would go in this direction as it doesn't leverage any existing knoweldge base for the SA HMO feature. The CSRs will need to write a new book on how to address service calls.

It also disallows other things HMO can do, no TivoToGo?

I wonder that if this is full bandwidth video transfer, then do the remote TVs watch the programming without downloading to the local disk first?

The other reason to do it this way is because the NDS units will do it this way (I have no information on this, just a guess) and they want interoperability between the two units.

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Old 12-15-2004, 11:12 AM   #130 (Print)
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I believe the original coax rumor also detailed that DirecTV didn't want to transfer shows, they wanted shows to play from the unit they reside at and just be viewed at the remote unit, and that playback be remotely controlled from the remote unit (FF/REW/Pause, etc).
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Old 12-15-2004, 11:13 AM   #131 (Print)
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This is not altogether a bad thing.

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Old 12-15-2004, 11:16 AM   #132 (Print)
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would that cause the dual tunners to stop working? if it is streaming the show to another tivo?

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Old 12-15-2004, 11:22 AM   #133 (Print)
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I also agree that this isn't necessarily a bad thing. If we look at it from the "Joe Sixpack" perspective, most homes don't have a wired ethernet network in place (and wireless at 54mps is pretty slow once you try to send high-quality video over it - I tried it on my home network for distributing ripped DVD's from my server to my HTPC and had to step back to a wired connection to get a stutter-free image). But, all the homes that are receiving DirecTv services have a "star schema" coax wiring topology in place already. This would seem to be the least intrusive way to enable MRV for the non-network-savvy customer.

True, it isn't a great solution for the other aspects of HMO, but we gotta walk before we run...

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Old 12-15-2004, 11:22 AM   #134 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by dswallow
I believe the original coax rumor also detailed that DirecTV didn't want to transfer shows, they wanted shows to play from the unit they reside at and just be viewed at the remote unit, and that playback be remotely controlled from the remote unit (FF/REW/Pause, etc).


Actually, that would be a pretty slick system, as the way it works now, you have to have the storage space for multiple copies of the shows you want to watch in other rooms. This coupled with what LonghornXP was saying about still allowing other HMO functions would be great. Just from the cost of this system and the hoops DTV will go through just to safeguard the signal, you can guarantee that we will NEVER see TiVoToGo unless they went with TiVo's discarded hardware key scheme. Even then, I'd seriously doubt they'd allow it at all.
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Old 12-15-2004, 11:23 AM   #135 (Print)
LonghornXP
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Quote:
Originally posted by warrenevans
would that cause the dual tunners to stop working? if it is streaming the show to another tivo?


All tuners on all Tivos will work as normal even if a show is being streamed. Now the show will be streamed from the USB dongle over the cables even when a show is be sent down on it from the satellite.

Also as another poster said it won't be downloaded onto another hard drive the system would be streaming the file from one box over to another. It won't require anymore HDD space than what it takes now to record. So if you press the FF button it would actually FF the show on the other box and continue streaming like current SA tivos do today. Also I'm hearing that the window button might be used for sometype of PIP feature to be added.
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Old 12-15-2004, 11:28 AM   #136 (Print)
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Hmm... will then a unit be able to stream more then one show at a time..

Say box b wants show 1, box c wants show 2 both from box a ?
Can current HMO do this? (I only have two up with HMO so I can't test it).

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Old 12-15-2004, 11:30 AM   #137 (Print)
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Originally posted by ebonovic
Hmm... will then a unit be able to stream more then one show at a time..

Say box b wants show 1, box c wants show 2 both from box a ?
Can current HMO do this? (I only have two up with HMO so I can't test it).


Good question and I asked and was told it can do what the SA HMO can do and sadly to say I don't know what current SA Tivos can do.
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Old 12-15-2004, 11:30 AM   #138 (Print)
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When?
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Old 12-15-2004, 11:34 AM   #139 (Print)
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This would actually be nice! I could setup my 160GB Unit in the basement and use it for SD programming and reserve my HR10-250 for HD only ... which is what I have wanted to do all along! Hope you are right on the window button option. I have missed this feature from UTV since I gave it up.
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Old 12-15-2004, 11:40 AM   #140 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by slacker9876
This would actually be nice! I could setup my 160GB Unit in the basement and use it for SD programming and reserve my HR10-250 for HD only

That brings up another question: Will you be able to program another unit via this setup, or just stream programs?
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Old 12-15-2004, 11:44 AM   #141 (Print)
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Couple of questions...

1) Does this new multiswitch need power?
2) What about those people that spent $400+ on one... what happens to them?

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Old 12-15-2004, 11:46 AM   #142 (Print)
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Originally posted by LonghornXP
Good question and I asked and was told it can do what the SA HMO can do and sadly to say I don't know what current SA Tivos can do.


To answer my own question and my bud asked my question to his bud as you would call it. Okay the sending DVR can still record two live shows at once from the satellite while at the sametime sending out as many recorded streams as the cable can handle which should be more than three streams. Now every DVR can only receiver one stream from another DVR but it can still record as always.

So you can have a source DVR that can send three shows to three DVRs in the house and it can do this because the source DVR is only hosting the file while the DVR in the other room that is playing it back is doing the decoding and playback. So to put it simple the source DVR is letting other DVRs read the file which is why it can stream more than one show because the box really isn't streaming it but just allowing access. Now our boxes can't playback more than one show at a time. Now playing back is different than recording.

I hope this makes sense.
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Old 12-15-2004, 11:47 AM   #143 (Print)
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Anyone who is unimpressed by this news has unreasonable expectations.

This is huge for me - Dual tuner tivos, with MRV! I do not use a multiswtich now (just the 4 outputs of the phase 3), but I'd HAPPILY invest in a multiswitch for this.

Also, using the existing coax is really nice in my mind - no need to run a cat5 to the boxes (or wireless adapters).

I would really like the other functions of HMO - photos and music, hopefully you will be able to use the additional USB port - but I'll take MRV ANYDAY. And I'd buy a new R10 for upstairs immediately.

When When When??

Also, Longhorn - anyone know if diplexed antenna signals would be a problem with this scenario?

Thansk for the GREAT info-

L

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Old 12-15-2004, 11:48 AM   #144 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by mycltype-s
Couple of questions...

1) Does this new multiswitch need power?
2) What about those people that spent $400+ on one... what happens to them?


I'm pretty sure it will because most access points need power today. Now I don't know about those people who spent that kinda money but I guess it seems they get screwed. What can I say.
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Old 12-15-2004, 11:51 AM   #145 (Print)
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Originally posted by LeeG
Anyone who is unimpressed by this news has unreasonable expectations.

This is huge for me - Dual tuner tivos, with MRV! I do not use a multiswtich now (just the 4 outputs of the phase 3), but I'd HAPPILY invest in a multiswitch for this.

Also, using the existing coax is really nice in my mind - no need to run a cat5 to the boxes (or wireless adapters).

I would really like the other functions of HMO - photos and music, hopefully you will be able to use the additional USB port - but I'll take MRV ANYDAY. And I'd buy a new R10 for upstairs immediately.

When When When??

Also, Longhorn - anyone know if diplexed antenna signals would be a problem with this scenario?

Thansk for the GREAT info-

L


Do you mean a rooftop antenna that would be plugged into the multiswitch and diplexed at the box. If this is what you mean than yes that will work fine because it will receive the content from the satellite and/or antenna the same but but once you record a show even from an antenna it still will use the USB thingy to send the shows to other DVRs.
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Old 12-15-2004, 11:53 AM   #146 (Print)
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Originally posted by herdfan
That brings up another question: Will you be able to program another unit via this setup, or just stream programs?


What do you mean by program another unit. Do you mean being able to tell DVR A to record a show in DVR As guide but actually have it record on DVR C for example. If that is what your asking I'm not sure and my bud doesn't know the answer to that but he will ask around.
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Old 12-15-2004, 11:57 AM   #147 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by LonghornXP
I'm pretty sure it will because most access points need power today. Now I don't know about those people who spent that kinda money but I guess it seems they get screwed. What can I say.


See for me that would be a problem. All of my cable is in the attic and getting power would not be easy. Now for the people that have this already they can work around it.

But why have USB support and not use it this way... oh wait. D* saw the writing on the wall on how people we able to pull video off of there machines and said "Not on my watch". This might slow people down but not stop it.

Why not have the ability to use a usb hub if wanted or use the cable for people who are not network ready. Best of both worlds.

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Old 12-15-2004, 11:58 AM   #148 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by LonghornXP
What do you mean by program another unit. Do you mean being able to tell DVR A to record a show in DVR As guide but actually have it record on DVR C for example. If that is what your asking I'm not sure and my bud doesn't know the answer to that but he will ask around.


That was my next question.
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Old 12-15-2004, 11:58 AM   #149 (Print)
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Arrgh! My head is spinning after eight pages! Any word on if the HD DirecTV TiVo receivers will be in on this? I sadly only have one SD DirecTV TiVo and two HD TiVos. I'd love to be able to transfer shows between my two HDTVs.

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Old 12-15-2004, 12:03 PM   #150 (Print)
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Oh and another thing... what about the people with SA series 2 units. With this feature you would not be able to transfer files between any unit that was NOT D*.

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