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View Poll Results: Approve of the way Tivo is doing the Tivotogo rollout
approve 192 56.80%
disapprove 146 43.20%
Voters: 338. You may not vote on this poll

 
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Old 01-07-2005, 11:32 AM   #1 (Print)
Kimt
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Poll: Tivo doing tivotogo rollout right approve/disapprove

Another simple, poll
Aprove or disapprove of the way tivo is rolling out tivotogo.

PC magazine and zdnet uk also commented on the rollout today.

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Last edited by Kimt : 01-07-2005 at 11:49 AM.
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Old 01-07-2005, 11:39 AM   #2 (Print)
MickeS
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I approve only because I got TTG already.

Seriously, I don't mind that they roll it out incrementally. But they should send a message to everyone estimating at least the week they'll get it.

/Mike
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Old 01-07-2005, 11:50 AM   #3 (Print)
Kimt
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Quote:
Originally posted by MickeS
I approve only because I got TTG already.

Seriously, I don't mind that they roll it out incrementally. But they should send a message to everyone estimating at least the week they'll get it.

/Mike


Please click the poll I want to give them some hard numbers.

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Old 01-07-2005, 11:56 AM   #4 (Print)
rengam
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The rollout method is perfectly reasonable to me given the circumstance (the need to have a random sample and enough support personnel to deal with that random sample calling with questions).

BTW, yes, I voted in the poll; No, my TiVo's have not been updated yet; Yes, I am anxious to get TiVoToGo; Yes, I force connection one extra time a day; Yes, I'm disappointed everytime I see that I don't have 7.1 yet; But no, I'm not pissed about it.

EDIT: Oh, and yes, I signed up for the priority list. Probably a few hours after it was announced.

Rob

Last edited by rengam : 01-07-2005 at 12:34 PM.
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Old 01-07-2005, 11:57 AM   #5 (Print)
DrStrange
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Actually it should include "approve/disapprove" with both combinations of "I have it/I don't have it" so we can get an idea if, as I suspect, most people who disapprove do so just because they didn't get it yet.
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Old 01-07-2005, 11:57 AM   #6 (Print)
Tap
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Re: Poll: Tivo doing tivotogo rollout right approve/disapprove

Quote:
Originally posted by Kimt


PC magazine and zdnet uk also commented on the rollout today.


Link?

Only story I see from ZDNet is this one: http://news.zdnet.com/2100-1040_22-5513819.html

which talks more about the complainers like yourself than against the rollout Tivo is doing.
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Old 01-07-2005, 12:00 PM   #7 (Print)
celestprof
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I predict that your poll will heavily favor Tivo.

The zealots here would defend Tivo even if Tivo came into their home and stole every thing in them.

They'd say, "Oh, its Tivo. Its OK."
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Old 01-07-2005, 12:05 PM   #8 (Print)
swyatt
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Quote:
Originally posted by celestprof
I predict that your poll will heavily favor Tivo.

The zealots here would defend Tivo even if Tivo came into their home and stole every thing in them.

They'd say, "Oh, its Tivo. Its OK."


LOL!!!
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Old 01-07-2005, 12:07 PM   #9 (Print)
jgeurin
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Even if I had TTG already I would still pick disapprove, because there are others (like me!) who don't, and that sucks for us!
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Old 01-07-2005, 12:07 PM   #10 (Print)
Kimt
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Quote:
Originally posted by celestprof
I predict that your poll will heavily favor Tivo.

The zealots here would defend Tivo even if Tivo came into their home and stole every thing in them.

They'd say, "Oh, its Tivo. Its OK."


I might not post for a while, its not just tivo, a lot of companies do similar things. I'm going to check this poll at the end of the week.. be interesting to see the result.

You may be right, thats to bad. But I think some because its "always business as usual" some people just tend to accept it.

Its kind of like when you buy a product ie. an automobile, you do have a lot of legal rights if its a lemon... But I think people just assume they don't.
Maybe this poll will show that and maybe it won't.

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Old 01-07-2005, 12:14 PM   #11 (Print)
TivoGeezer
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Has any of you who posted that you were mad because you did not get it yet sign up for the priority list? I'm not sure how much that helps but, did you at least try? Maybe also those who disapprove should indicate how they would make it better. I understand they cannot update every machine overnight.

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Old 01-07-2005, 12:14 PM   #12 (Print)
Gregor
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Quote:
Originally posted by celestprof
I predict that your poll will heavily favor Tivo.

The zealots here would defend Tivo even if Tivo came into their home and stole every thing in them.

They'd say, "Oh, its Tivo. Its OK."


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Old 01-07-2005, 12:22 PM   #13 (Print)
joshag
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Voted disaprove only because of the Priority List. If they would have eliminated this and just started randomly rolling it out, I would have approved.


Beware of the forum police!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 01-07-2005, 12:28 PM   #14 (Print)
Moocow_41
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I Wonder if they are just giving it to HMO people or if they are being trully random and giving it to people who cant even use it
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Old 01-07-2005, 01:25 PM   #15 (Print)
ZeoTiVo
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kimt
I might not post for a while, its not just tivo, a lot of companies do similar things. I'm going to check this poll at the end of the week.. be interesting to see the result.

You may be right, thats to bad. But I think some because its "always business as usual" some people just tend to accept it.

Its kind of like when you buy a product ie. an automobile, you do have a lot of legal rights if its a lemon... But I think people just assume they don't.
Maybe this poll will show that and maybe it won't.



the only reason I have not put you on my ignore list is because you put your foot in your mouth so often while being so earnest. It delights me in a sad bluesy kind of way. Can not wait to see you try and spin your way out of this poll. MAybe you should have added an option - "What do I know, I am a TiVo zealot" and "What would anything by someone else matter to me, I am KimT"


news articles to TiVo management on how the world is dismayed at the TTG rollout" best LOL of the whole week

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Old 01-07-2005, 01:26 PM   #16 (Print)
doppler1
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Quote:
Originally posted by DrStrange
so we can get an idea if, as I suspect, most people who disapprove do so just because they didn't get it yet.


Or the other way around...you never know.
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Old 01-07-2005, 01:44 PM   #17 (Print)
Kimt
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Quote:
Originally posted by ZeoTiVo
the only reason I have not put you on my ignore list is because you put your foot in your mouth so often while being so earnest. It delights me in a sad bluesy kind of way. Can not wait to see you try and spin your way out of this poll. MAybe you should have added an option - "What do I know, I am a TiVo zealot" and "What would anything by someone else matter to me, I am KimT"


news articles to TiVo management on how the world is dismayed at the TTG rollout" best LOL of the whole week



The numbers will stand however they come out, we may learn something from them, maybe you will too.

As to ttg, want it less than before based on other posts I've found and other boards, although I suspected much of this I was hoping it wasn't true.


Found lot of info elsewhere on this board.

Well I was wondering how the drm figured into the picture and allowing dvd burning now I know. And why the content providers arn't complaining.

Its simple

You still cannot get anything like a perfect digital copy outside of the tivotogo desktop . And the .tivo file produced has to be reencoded and this has been clocked (search this board for the posts I'm referring to) at taking 1 - 2 hours for a 30 minute show.

Your actually better off getting a dvdrecorder tv. Because tivotogo seems like its going to be a pain.

Now using the interface you can directly watch the video on your laptop, and maybe with some work stream it to a protable or media player type device. But again the dvdrecorder tivo or a standalone with a dvdrecorder on the svdeo port is going to be a better proposition.

I really don't care if I'm on your ignore list or not. Please dispute the above. But I think its all correct. Wonder if the dvd models will have the same restrictions because the format is already dvd, depends what the transfer does.

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Old 01-07-2005, 01:51 PM   #18 (Print)
MickeS
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Quote:
Your actually better off getting a dvdrecorder tv. Because tivotogo seems like its going to be a pain.

Now using the interface you can directly watch the video on your laptop, and maybe with some work stream it to a protable or media player type device/


I don't think it would be easier to get a file from your TiVo dvd-recorder to, say, a pocket pc, than it would be to get it there from a PC with TTG.

/Mike
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Old 01-07-2005, 02:03 PM   #19 (Print)
ZeoTiVo
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kimt
The numbers will stand however they come out, we may learn something from them, maybe you will too.


You still cannot get anything like a perfect digital copy outside of the tivotogo desktop . And the .tivo file produced has to be re encoded and this has been clocked (search this board for the posts I'm referring to) at taking 1 - 2 hours for a 30 minute show.


Now using the interface you can directly watch the video on your laptop, and maybe with some work stream it to a portable or media player type device. But again the dvdrecorder tivo or a standalone with a dvdrecorder on the svdeo port is going to be a better proposition.

I really don't care if I'm on your ignore list or not. Please dispute the above. But I think its all correct. Wonder if the dvd models will have the same restrictions because the format is already dvd, depends what the transfer does.


ok
first off the TiVo is making an digital recording of an analog signal, content owners are not so worried about the file on the TiVo itself even.

second - the .tivo file is just an xml wrapper around that analog to digital mpeg recording. Once it is figured out how to stream that directshow filter of mpeg straight to a file it will take 5 minutes to get an mpeg2 file out of the .tivo file.

third CES announcements were about the software to easily stream tivo files to smartphones and portable devices, no clunky workarounds needed like trans-coding or directshow streaming.

fourth - Bill Gates listed getting files from TiVo to these devices as his third announcement at keynote address. Bil is not 100% with what he sees as the next big thing but even he sees this as a market producer.

fifth - .tivo files off the DVD recorders will probably be the same - maybe slight audio difference.


so it may take 40 minutes to pull an hour show off the tivo (if wired) adn then 10 minutes to burn or strip it but in all that time the TiVo can be recording shows or playing other shows. The built in DVD recorders are like this but they are static and there is no editing or files on a PC to work with.

I'll throw this one in for free
a planned rollout with some kind of test group to make sure the actual rollout/support mechanism has been planned for properly is the only professional way to do it.
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Old 01-07-2005, 02:22 PM   #20 (Print)
Kimt
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Quote:
Originally posted by ZeoTiVo
ok
first off the TiVo is making an digital recording of an analog signal, content owners are not so worried about the file on the TiVo itself even.

second - the .tivo file is just an xml wrapper around that analog to digital mpeg recording. Once it is figured out how to stream that directshow filter of mpeg straight to a file it will take 5 minutes to get an mpeg2 file out of the .tivo file.

.


You know I thought that to, but there are other posts in this forum that will beg to differ. They'll already playing with the files. Lucky folks got it day one.
And it looks like what comes out of the directshow filter is not dvd ready mpeg.
Guess we'll have to wait for the sonic software to see if it works differently, but sonic in the past will reincode if the import does not meet the dvd spec. We know the file that comes from the tivo will not meet the dvd spec . I can only surmise it will have a nonstandard bitrate.

here's the tread..
This time please prove me wrong.
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-v...threadid=215842

Now what Bill gates is maybe refering to is getting the files on a pmc device , again he's probably thinking of wmv format. Transcoding again.

third CES announcements were about the software to easily stream tivo files to smartphones and portable devices, no clunky workarounds needed like trans-coding or directshow streaming.

But smatphones don't use mpeg2 either, its mpeg4 or wmv, oog

OR

Streaming the video. I can already think of a number of ways you can take the video comming out of tivodesktop and stream it as an mpeg transport stream to an HD mediaplayer like a roku photobridge. But that would be at realtime speeds. OK for streaming, but your not getting a dvd out of it.

NOW without tivo to go, I can take the dvd from a dvdrecorder humax , turn it into an mpeg-ts stream and view it now on the photobridge.

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Last edited by Kimt : 01-07-2005 at 02:36 PM.
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Old 01-07-2005, 02:44 PM   #21 (Print)
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I approve, but only because of my experience in IT. Large roll outs must be managed this way to reduce the number of problem incidents. It also gives TiVo's helpdesk the time to begin fielding real questions from users about what TTG is and how to use it, without thousands and thousands of calls pouring in at once.

For the record: I haven't received TTG on my 240 yet but it's on the priority list. I have a Pioneer 810 that won't get TTG for some unknown amount of time, and I am a little disappointed about that. I don't have a Mac or a DVD-burner in my PC so that part doesn't bother me.

Bottom line: I would rather have to wait for an uneventful upgrade and a product that works than have it sooner and have my TiVo screwed up or with lots of bugs.

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Old 01-07-2005, 02:53 PM   #22 (Print)
Kimt
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Quote:
Originally posted by cassiusdrow
I approve, but only because of my experience in IT. Large roll outs must be managed this way to reduce the number of problem incidents. It also gives TiVo's helpdesk the time to begin fielding real questions from users about what TTG is and how to use it, without thousands and thousands of calls pouring in at once.

For the record: I haven't received TTG on my 240 yet but it's on the priority list. I have a Pioneer 810 that won't get TTG for some unknown amount of time, and I am a little disappointed about that. I don't have a Mac or a DVD-burner in my PC so that part doesn't bother me.

Bottom line: I would rather have to wait for an uneventful upgrade and a product that works than have it sooner and have my TiVo screwed up or with lots of bugs.


well different companies do things different ways, and it seems the vast majority so far think tivo is doing the right approach, the've probably been tivo owners longer than me.
It still doesn't seem right, but majority opinion rules.

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Old 01-07-2005, 02:55 PM   #23 (Print)
ZeoTiVo
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kimt
You know I thought that to, but there are other posts in this forum that will beg to differ. They'll already playing with the files. Lucky folks got it day one.
And it looks like what comes out of the directshow filter is not dvd ready mpeg..



ah, and there is where we diverge on desired goal. I actually only want mpeg files I can play on a media device like my laptop/Smartphone or someday a Protable Media Player - hopefully with one of those cheap AMD chips

you are looking for a DVD end product.

Though I would think having mpeg quickly in a close to DVD format would give you a lot more possibilities.
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Old 01-07-2005, 03:00 PM   #24 (Print)
Kimt
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Quote:
Originally posted by ZeoTiVo
ah, and there is where we diverge on desired goal. I actually only want mpeg files I can play on a media device like my laptop/Smartphone or someday a Protable Media Player - hopefully with one of those cheap AMD chips

you are looking for a DVD end product.

Though I would think having mpeg quickly in a close to DVD format would give you a lot more possibilities.


I don't think you'll see mpeg, unless you mean mpeg4, the bitrate is just to high.
you can edit the dvd files that come from the dvd recorder tivos.
Very best cheap mpeg editor is videoredo.

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Old 01-07-2005, 03:16 PM   #25 (Print)
briguymaine
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I'm a mac user who approves of the rollout, am I on drugs? no, I use an mac daily and I face the reality that macs aren't on the cutting edge of development sometimes. Just a small dose of reality for the pissy and moany mac user out there.

PS, I have the update. It's changed my life very little.

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Old 01-07-2005, 04:07 PM   #26 (Print)
netposer
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Quote:
Originally posted by celestprof
I predict that your poll will heavily favor Tivo.

The zealots here would defend Tivo even if Tivo came into their home and stole every thing in them.

They'd say, "Oh, its Tivo. Its OK."


As sad as it sounds there's too many on this board that TiVo relies on to keep everyone in check.

The zealots don't think of TiVo as a for-profit company but rather as an organization who's doing us a favor by taking our money and giving us a product in return.
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Old 01-07-2005, 04:43 PM   #27 (Print)
ZeoTiVo
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Quote:
Originally posted by netposer
As sad as it sounds there's too many on this board that TiVo relies on to keep everyone in check.

The zealots don't think of TiVo as a for-profit company but rather as an organization who's doing us a favor by taking our money and giving us a product in return.


huh, and here it is I thought they were a for profit company(at least trying to be) doingh us a favor by providing support in this forum that most companies do not do.
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Old 01-07-2005, 08:51 PM   #28 (Print)
cat5
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Quote:
Originally posted by ZeoTiVo
The only reason I have not put you on my ignore list is
because you put your foot in your mouth
.


What I would expect from this poll, Kim will be disappointed.

Sorry ZeoTivo (How cute, Do you work for Tivo) Kimt left on vacation
today. She told me about this site and all the ďconstructive
conversationsĒ she has here and I just had to check it out myself.
You can call me CAT5 (get the reference ,).
Iím the webmaster for distributed-home a site that
seems to be getting some bashing around here.

Originally posted by Tap

Also, your sig line to visit distributed-home - is that
where we can go for more of your whining?


Oh thatís amusing Tap, by sig line do you mean signature line. Thereís a
little button on the post screen it says SpellCheck .

This board reminds me of the stories of the old west, some gunslingers, some mud slinging,
some useful information but mostly useless trite, AND much testosterone flying back and forth.

(Quote)
first off the TiVo is making a digital recording of an analog signal;
content owners are not so worried about the file on the TiVo itself even.


Well, yes that is true except when it comes to HBO, Cinemax and ON
DEMAND content! Iím sure they also know how easily it is to get around
that too. They, The content providers are most concerned however about
True digital copies from HTDV and are putting all their cards in the
Broadcast Flag Basket, take it from someone who has been playing with
bits and bytes for a long time, they may have a surprise come August, and
by This time next year the Fritz chip may be known as the ďOn The Fritz ChipĒ.


second - the .tivo file is just an xml wrapper around that analog to digital
mpeg recording. Once it is figured out how to stream that directshow filter of mpeg
straight to a file it will take 5 minutes to get an
mpeg2 file out of the .tivo file.


Iím afraid Kim is right here. Sonic MyDVD always tries to reencode even the
most perfect mpeg files I throw at it, Iíve abandoned that for the Ulead Product DVDWorkshop.

<edit 1-8-05>I did some more research, nothing special about the format you should be able to use standard tools to manipulate the mpeg without reencoding, I don't have a lot of details on MYDVD 6.1. Version 5.0 would not be able to handel this type of format but sonic has been slowly adding high end featues to the consumer tools. ReelDVD could probably do this and even my old favorite scenarist, NT. if you can , and it appears so ; you can open the file in other tools . There are plenty of freeware utilities that will change the mpeg header</edit>

Streaming however may be relatively easy, it should be relatively easy to
transcode the tivo mpeg on the fly to a transport stream. I do this with
replaytv and converted dvd files creating a udp stream to the roku PhotoBridge we have. Also If you want something that will stream to a pc or mac, check out the
pinnacle showcenter or the neustron media center, both of these settop boxes
have simple php interfaces that can be tweaked to stream content to a laptop
client running windows xp or mac os X. Iíve also had some success using
a straight apache webserver with tomcat/j2k connector.

fourth - Bill Gates listed getting files from TiVo to these devices as
his third announcement at keynote address. Bil is not 100% with what he sees as
the next big thing but even he sees this as a market producer.


Oh you must be referring to this from

cnet:news.com.com/Gates+touts+TiVo+deal+at+CES/2100-1040_3-5514117.html


Personal Media center devices use wmv, which means reencoding.


Youíre never going to see mpeg2 on a Smart phone; the bit rates are just
too high. The format is going to be some version of mpeg4, 3GGP or 3GGP2

apple.com/mpeg4/3gpp/


AMD is supposed to release a chip that does on the fly transcodiing but a
lot of details are still unclear.

Ok, so how do I feel about TIVtoGo?
Well I have two Tivoís, and one of them is a recorder. Kim and I brought
them about the same time. (Incidentally do the rebates follow some elaborate
rollout plan because I havenít seen my check yet?)

Iíve been in IT a lot longer than Kim. And as a manager too. I tried to explain
to Kim that a rollout to 2.5 million set-top boxes is a bit different than
a rollout to several thousand business workstations. Even If platforms
vary between Flavors of Unix and Windows. And it may need to be handled a
bit differently with a linux based consumer client.

What I do agree with her on is that Tivo management never made one reference
anywhere that it would take longer to get the upgrade to the DVD recorder Tivo owners.
Obviously since many of these were sold before the holidays and TivotoGo
was promised in the fall this revelation may of impacted sales.

I did purchase a second unit, just for I could experiment with streaming
the video to one or more of the media player devices I own. And I did ask
Kim to do a review for the website because sheís more experienced with
tivoís then me. I signed the priority list Tuesday so unless CS is
including brand new tivo units in their random sample it will probably
be another week or so before I see the upgrade.

Iím not going to spend my time here complaining though. Kim tries
to be the spokesperson for every cause she finds; I on the other
hand know itís not a perfect world. Tivo is not part of some great
conspiracy but a player in a young industry trying to find a
niche market in a very dynamic sometimes hostile environment,
And in such an environment compromises to Pacify different
special interests (ie. Hollywood Studios) are the norm.

Of course as the planners around very elaborate star wars
defense systems are aware of sometimes it takes a little
bit of aluminum chaff to nullify your multibillion dollar
systems. That said the key word for all you TCM zealots out there
is ADAPTIVE FIREWALLS. Enough said.

Unlike Kim I donít post very much, when Iím not writing code,
analyzing ethereal dumps or working for a living I prefer
having some fun with my Children.

When I do post something I make sure I have all my facts straight.
And a real cause.
I NEVER get involved in political discussions on these boards. I do have
definite political opinions but these forums tend to
turn into shouting matches when politics get brought up.

PS:<edit> removed because I don't want this to turn into something, you have to be careful whatever you say on this board... good grief!!! <edit>

OH and I will be watching Kimís back.

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Last edited by cat5 : 01-08-2005 at 10:02 AM.
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Old 01-07-2005, 08:59 PM   #29 (Print)
Eoghann
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Originally posted by cat5
OH and I will be watching Kimís back.


That sounds like remarkably dull way to spend your time.
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Old 01-07-2005, 09:02 PM   #30 (Print)
cat5
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Quote:
Originally posted by Eoghann
That sounds like remarkably dull way to spend your time.


Kind of like a sister to me,(or maybe she is , I don't discuss my personal stuff on open forums) nice person but tends to speak before she thinks.

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