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Old 04-04-2005, 01:02 PM   #121 (Print)
Merchant
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RE wondering what the baby looks like as Six and Baltar peer into the crib:

It will probably remain one of those never-seen teasers, like what exactly Apollo, Starbuck and Sheba viewed in Count Iblis' wrecked ship ("Sheba, don't look! You don't want to know!") before they shot him with a blaster and his head sprouted ram's horns--in the original series.
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Old 04-04-2005, 01:08 PM   #122 (Print)
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Old 04-04-2005, 01:11 PM   #123 (Print)
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the baby was a "she", right?

I don't know if my mind is making this up or if 6 said it was a she...

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Old 04-04-2005, 01:12 PM   #124 (Print)
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Don't forget that Six strangled a baby in a stroller on the streets of Caprica in the pilot.
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Old 04-04-2005, 01:13 PM   #125 (Print)
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This didnít ring true to meóAdama seemed to accept civilian authority over the military OK but then starts a military coup?

Now, Iím wondering if Boomer recognized that Adama was a Cylon and killed him. I know it sounds strange but the whole coup thing didnít seem right to me. I kept saying to myself as I was watching the coup take place, ďThatís not right!Ē.

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Old 04-04-2005, 01:20 PM   #126 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldandslow
This didnít ring true to meóAdama seemed to accept civilian authority over the military OK but then starts a military coup?

He never accepted civilian authority over the military. He only agreed to accept Laura as president on condition that she accept his absolute control in military matters. That's why he deposed her--because she violated their agreement and tried to usurp his military authority. Once she effectively said that only one of them could have complete power, to him it was no choice as to which one it must be.

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Old 04-04-2005, 01:25 PM   #127 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Azlen
Another thing to remember is that they can only jump as far as the ship in the fleet with the most limited range can jump.


Remember in the mini-series when they left Ragnar Anchorage? They plotted a jump "beyond the red line" which was farther than anyone had ever jumped before. All the ships in the fleet made that jump.
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Old 04-04-2005, 01:26 PM   #128 (Print)
Anubys
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I agree...they had clearly defined boundaries and she ignored them...forget the fact that she is having "visions"...she used TWO military assets (starbuck and the raider) to go on a fool's errand right in the middle of a major military conflict...

the fact that the errand will end-up being significant is not relevant...

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Old 04-04-2005, 01:35 PM   #129 (Print)
PJO1966
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anubys
the baby was a "she", right?

I don't know if my mind is making this up or if 6 said it was a she...


Yes... it's a girl.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Merchant
Don't forget that Six strangled a baby in a stroller on the streets of Caprica in the pilot.


Yes, but it was pretty clear she did it to spare it from the oncoming attack.

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Old 04-04-2005, 01:45 PM   #130 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PJO1966
Yes, but it was pretty clear she did it to spare it from the oncoming attack.

That wasn't clear at all to me. She had just been talking about how fragile the baby was, and it looked like she just wanted to experiment... Could've just been me though.

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Old 04-04-2005, 01:45 PM   #131 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PJO1966
Yes, but it was pretty clear she did it to spare it from the oncoming attack.


Not saying you're wrong, but I didn't get that impression at all. I kinda got a "let's see what happens" or "let's see how easy this is" impression from that whole scene. Could've just been me though.

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Old 04-04-2005, 02:00 PM   #132 (Print)
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It could also have been jealousy. Maybe Six is of a line that cannot conceive. Thus the delight she took in beating the crap out of Boomer before sending her back to Helo and her rage at Starbuck on Caprica after she slept with Baltar.
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Old 04-04-2005, 02:01 PM   #133 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PJO1966
They may not need two people, but there are obviously two stations, one for the pilot and one for... tactical? To increase the odds of completing the task, both were needed. In case of emergency, one can probably suffice.

I guess we have an answer to the question on whether the smaller ships are pressurized. We never see anyone without their helmets on. Boomer obviously survived the trip back to Galactica without hers.
We've seen people in the back of Raptors without helmets before. I'm fairly sure the people in the back of the raptor, with Baltar and the Chief, heading for Kobol didn't have helmets.

I know that the refugees evacuated from Caprica on Raptors in the mini-series didn't have helmets. Clearly Raptors are pressurized. It isn't clear that Vipers are, but it would make sense to increase the chances of survival. Two environmental systems that are separate (or at least separatable) from each other, one on the ship and on on the suite make for a higher chance of survival that just relying on the one on the suit.

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Old 04-04-2005, 02:05 PM   #134 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeL
Remember in the mini-series when they left Ragnar Anchorage? They plotted a jump "beyond the red line" which was farther than anyone had ever jumped before. All the ships in the fleet made that jump.
Huh. I'd taken that to mean it was farther from the Colonies that anyone had bothered to go. Or at least farther than anyone on Galactica was aware of anyone going. Not that the jump was longer than any before, just that the destination was further out than anybody went.

The "red line" could have been closer to Ragnar Anchorage than a max length jump, but if nothing interesting was known or suspected to be out there, nobody bothered to head out that direction.

It's even possible that there was a specific limit placed on exploration to limit the chances that they might run into anyone hostile, or to accidentally intrude on the Cylons. After all, they knew the Cylons were still out there, why risk another war if you have sufficient resources and land where you are.

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Old 04-04-2005, 02:38 PM   #135 (Print)
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We'd have had 438 presidents by now if generals staged a coup whenever the president did something they didn't like. I guess I'm looking at this from a USofA perspective. Maybe the fleet is closer to a banana republic than a democracy.


Exactly. This is a very, very unstable "democracy", built on the shreds of a seemingly very theocratic system that was held together by one common belief. It's very common to have a power struggle between the military and the government in less than democratic countries, and in the case of BSG there is now the added conflict between Roslin who now sees herself as someone on a divine mission, and Adama, who is more moderate and secular, and doesn't even believe in the existence of Earth. I find the political machinations to be entirely believable within the context of the show.

And by the way, wow what an ending.

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Old 04-04-2005, 02:51 PM   #136 (Print)
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I have to say that Adema was right in what he did. The president clearly went out of bounds when even approaching Starbuck for the Carpica mission...

For one the cylon raider is a HUGE asset for the military. The president had no idea what kind of mess Caprica was in.

Second Starbuck has been noted as being the best tactical planner in the fleet. She should in no way been sent on some rag tag unplanned mission.

Third This was not a civillian issue and thus the president has no power.

Fourth, she had no right telling Starbuck about Adema not knowing where Earth was. That is like crushing your last hope and dream.
-----

That said, I don't know if a coup would have been the best thing...it would have definately been a possibility.

I think I would have told her that it had been nice flying with her, and that the BSG would be jumping in a few seconds to an undisclosed location. If she would stand down, they could follow, if she didn't, then good luck in the next Cylon attack.
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Old 04-04-2005, 02:51 PM   #137 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunnyman2k3
Speaking of Starbuck and the jump to Caprica, wonder why she looked so wiped out in the Raider? No climate control? running out of Oxygen?


Either a) It was a long shooting day and the actress was exhausted or b) Starbuck just did the longest FTL jump by a human ever. We can theorize that FTL jumps are probably a little taxing but are usually taken in small doses. A few seconds in FTL land for a 10 or 20 light year jump. She probably had the equivalent exposure of 200-300 jumps in one take.
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Old 04-04-2005, 02:51 PM   #138 (Print)
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I felt like the coup plot-turn was a bit forced, as well. Seems like a drastic step by Adama over one incident. For that matter, if they could jam the ship's transmissions and thus effectively cut her off, why bother boarding just to get to her? Maybe Starbuck's "betrayal" got to him more than he was showing? We know he can get irrational over her, maybe he did so here.

BTW, I'm not married to my previous "kobol-cylon" theory, I just wanted to put it out there. OTOH it would be just like a bunch of toasters to take things too literally...

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Old 04-04-2005, 02:59 PM   #139 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterCephus
Second Starbuck has been noted as being the best tactical planner in the fleet. She should in no way been sent on some rag tag unplanned mission.


Who better then to come up with solid on-the-fly decisions. She can plan it as she goes.

-Mike
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Old 04-04-2005, 03:06 PM   #140 (Print)
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Ok, I'll accept that there are two totally different lines of command - military and civilian. Roslin has absolutely no authority over the military. If that's so, she can ask, order, beg, cajole, or whatever Starbuck to go on the Caprica mission until the cows come home. There's no way Starbuck should have gone. Roslin has no authority over her. You can't blame Roslin because Starbuck has no respect for the chain of command. Starbuck and her lack of respect for authority are Adama's responsibilities and it's his failure that he still can't rein her in. Ultimately, it's his fault that Starbuck took a valuable asset on what may be a wild goose chase. His palace coup still stinks to me.
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Old 04-04-2005, 03:09 PM   #141 (Print)
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Yeah, I like the idea of just cutting off Colonial One from the rest of the fleet. Seems a lot easier than sending marines, the CAG and the XO over there and risking bloodshed.

Rag tag fugitive fleets really should make military coups easier by their very nature!

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Old 04-04-2005, 03:12 PM   #142 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Farrington
Who better then to come up with solid on-the-fly decisions. She can plan it as she goes.


I will give you that, but that's the more reason why Adema could not continue to allow Roslin to influence his military people
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Old 04-04-2005, 05:03 PM   #143 (Print)
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In the BG version of democratic government, is the President not the Commander-in-Chief? I know there was an agreement between them, but where does the actual authority lie?

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Old 04-04-2005, 05:21 PM   #144 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hefe
In the BG version of democratic government, is the President not the Commander-in-Chief? I know there was an agreement between them, but where does the actual authority lie?


Technically yes she is the commander-in-chief, but that only works if you have military buy in. She lost that buy-in when she had Starbuck change plans.

There sure is a lot of insubordination amongst the military in the BG world. I suppose it has to do with the unique situation but I didn't understand either Starbuck's or Apollo's thinking.
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Old 04-04-2005, 05:35 PM   #145 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigpuma
Technically yes she is the commander-in-chief, but that only works if you have military buy in. She lost that buy-in when she had Starbuck change plans.

We know for a fact that the President is NOT the Commander-in-Chief in the fleet (because she and Adama agreed that he had absolute control over military affairs). We do not know whether that was the case back when they had 12 planets.

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Old 04-04-2005, 05:58 PM   #146 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Helmerichs
We know for a fact that the President is NOT the Commander-in-Chief in the fleet (because she and Adama agreed that he had absolute control over military affairs). We do not know whether that was the case back when they had 12 planets.


I know about the agreement that they made, I was just wondering if that was made despite some "Constitutional" authority. Even if you make that kind of verbal agreement, the actual law takes precedence. (Our President couldn't just declare himself not the Commander-in-Chief, there is no legal basis for that.)

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Old 04-04-2005, 06:12 PM   #147 (Print)
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The implication of their agreement was that there was a chain of command that came down from the president's office...Adama maintained that this is a desperate situation requiring military control...certainly not the type of situation where the sec. of education can handle...

based on their negotiation, I got the impression that Adama wrestled more power than "normal"...he gave her SOME power so it's not a straight military command...She agreed since some power is better than none...

anyway, this is how I perceived it...

as far as the 6/infant incident...the first time I saw it, it was CLEAR that she killed it as a cold-hearted experiment. But I went back to see it a second time and it wasn't as clear...she did a very good job of ALSO showing that she killed it to spare it...

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Old 04-04-2005, 06:46 PM   #148 (Print)
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Well, I just finished listening to the podcast of the audio commentary (Ron Moore's) for the last show. It starts to make more sense to me. The writers/producers had planned from the beginning to have Roslin in jail and Adama in full control at the end of season one. I supose since that was "the target", the coup was inevitable. Plus, I forgot about the "military agreement".
The podcast is at the website if you want to download it. Helps to play back the show with the sound off while lisening to the podcast.


http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/

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Old 04-04-2005, 09:52 PM   #149 (Print)
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One thing to remember.... for those in the "Adama is a Cylon" crowd.

If Adama was a cylon, then why did the Cylons attempt to assasinate him not once, but twice? Boomer wasn't the only attempt....

Have we already forgotten about the suicide bomber?
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Old 04-04-2005, 09:56 PM   #150 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MassD
...If Adama was a cylon, then why did the Cylons attempt to assasinate him not once, but twice? Boomer wasn't the only attempt....

Have we already forgotten about the suicide bomber?


Oh you mean the bomber who made a half-fast attempt that didn't even INJURE Adama, but was enough to throw the entirely-too-gullible off his scent?

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