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Old 04-14-2005, 03:31 PM   #1 (Print)
Ladd Morse
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No Tivo-to-Go for Mac? !!%$*#!!!!!!

Ahh crap. Thanks for nothing, TiVo!

TiVo CFO: No TivoToGo for Mac OS X Due to Cost

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Old 04-14-2005, 03:42 PM   #2 (Print)
ZeoTiVo
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this is a bad day for TiVo. A lot of good forum members are Mac users. Looks like many Mac users will be going elsewhere Sorry to see you go but obviously you will need to find another solution.

Last edited by ZeoTiVo : 04-14-2005 at 11:10 PM.
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Old 04-14-2005, 03:48 PM   #3 (Print)
mikebridge
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wooo, doom and gloom from a paraphrase of a paraphrase (additionaly, perhaps out of context). nice. where's the shot glasses!

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Old 04-14-2005, 03:49 PM   #4 (Print)
wtb
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Maybe a Linux type effort with an open source, open hardware using the Mac mini to replace the TiVo?

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Old 04-14-2005, 03:54 PM   #5 (Print)
the human torch
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dear TiVo,

bite me.

love,
torch

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Old 04-14-2005, 03:55 PM   #6 (Print)
the human torch
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from tivo.com...

Quote:
TiVo is working hard to make the TiVoToGo™ feature available on TiVo Desktop for Mac. We are currently working on ways to enable playback on Apple Macintosh computers. We will let our customers know in our newsletter as soon as this feature is available. If you do not already subscribe to the newsletter, you can go here to do so.


or ?

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Old 04-14-2005, 03:58 PM   #7 (Print)
dropd
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the human torch
from tivo.com...



or ?





They're stringing users along, perhaps dishonestly (if the CFO is telling the truth) *AND* soliciting folks' email to sign up for spam at the same time! sweet!
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Old 04-14-2005, 04:04 PM   #8 (Print)
W Auggie H
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TiVoPony, TiVoBill, TiVoShannon, etc.... Someone better chime in quick or it is going to get ugly real quick.

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Old 04-14-2005, 04:05 PM   #9 (Print)
gonzotek
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dropd


They're stringing users along, perhaps dishonestly (if the CFO is telling the truth) *AND* soliciting folks' email to sign up for spam at the same time! sweet!
Hold up there, I was with you until the spam comment. From their newsletter sign-up page:
Quote:
And don't worry: TiVo Inc. respects your privacy. We do not under any circumstances sell our lists or database information to anyone. See our privacy policy for details.
It's not spam if you actually want to receive it.
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Old 04-14-2005, 04:07 PM   #10 (Print)
dropd
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gonzotek
Hold up there, I was with you until the spam comment. From their newsletter sign-up page: It's not spam if you actually want to receive it.


OK, I retract the word "spam" and replace it with "solicitations from tivo to refer your friends to buy tivo, to buy additional tivos yourself, and take advantage of 'great deals'."

Those monthly (or however frequent those tivo emails are) are content-free. certainly you'd find out about T2G from mac much more quickly through other means than signing up for their marketing list.
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Old 04-14-2005, 04:10 PM   #11 (Print)
W Auggie H
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Quote:
Due to cost


What cost exactly? Development cost, licensing cost? Maybe Apple is not playing nice with TiVo because they are getting ready to come out with their own iPod like portable media player and don't want TiVo to muck up their plans. Let the crazy speculations begin...

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Old 04-14-2005, 04:12 PM   #12 (Print)
gonzotek
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dropd
OK, I retract the word "spam" and replace it with "solicitations from tivo to refer your friends to buy tivo, to buy additional tivos yourself, and take advantage of 'great deals'."

Those monthly (or however frequent those tivo emails are) are content-free. certainly you'd find out about T2G from mac much more quickly through other means than signing up for their marketing list.
No argument with regard to the nature of the newsletter. But it is an opt-in list that doesn't share your email with others. That's enough for me to not classify it spam. I also would classify it as something without any real value, but another person might not. One man's junk mail is anothers' favorite part of the day(scary as that may be ).
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Old 04-14-2005, 06:08 PM   #13 (Print)
robaustin
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I hate to say it, and I would hate to suggest that any Mac user spend a bit more $$$, but you could probably throw together a very cheap PC clone to use as a down and dirty "Tivo File server". Then extract the MPG and take it over your network to the mac.

It would not even have to be the "latest and greatest" - probably build it from parts from friends who have upgraded their PC.

--*Rob
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Old 04-14-2005, 06:29 PM   #14 (Print)
avichaiyl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robaustin
I hate to say it, and I would hate to suggest that any Mac user spend a bit more $$$, but you could probably throw together a very cheap PC clone to use as a down and dirty "Tivo File server". Then extract the MPG and take it over your network to the mac.

It would not even have to be the "latest and greatest" - probably build it from parts from friends who have upgraded their PC.

--*Rob



That would work, but I think for most Apple fans that poses an inelegant solution, and they will migrate to a more streamlined solution when available.

I've always thought the point of technology was to make life easier, provide more content and more portability and integration! DRM still seems to stand against all those things.

I just can't understand why a platform agnostic DRM scheme was used (when has the word scheme ever described something good) .
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Old 04-14-2005, 08:46 PM   #15 (Print)
Sethb
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W Auggie H
TiVoPony, TiVoBill, TiVoShannon, etc.... Someone better chime in quick or it is going to get ugly real quick.


I agree, we're not asking for the TiVo source code here, merely a yes or no answer. I *really* wish I could use TTG on my PowerBook, I have a PC as well, and even work as a Windows Sysadmin, but my laptop is a PowerBook, and I'm not going to suffer through the unbearably slow download, then break the DRM and/or transcode it and burn it to DVD just to watch one of my shows. It takes so long I'd rather download the show from bittorrent.

It's really only a matter of time until TiVo leaves my house now, my cable company has an HDTV DVR that I've got on my big screen, and they said multi-room viewing is going to be forthcoming. The interface isn't as good as TiVo, and it's got some bugs and glitches, but it's the first non-TiVo DVR that I could live with, so when my bedroom TV is due for replacement, and I get an HD box, I think my 140 hour TiVo is hitting eBay.

Did I mention that to get my shows off my HD DVR I just hook in a firewire cable?

Shame on you TiVo.
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Old 04-14-2005, 09:41 PM   #16 (Print)
Stanley Rohner
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No TiVo-to-go for Commodore64? !!%$*#!!!!!!
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Old 04-14-2005, 10:31 PM   #17 (Print)
HDTiVo
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You Mac users are a selfish bunch. I for one am glad TiVo is spending its limited development dollars on features for all TiVo users, like pop up ads.

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Old 04-15-2005, 12:33 AM   #18 (Print)
iDriveX
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I am seriously disappointed in this. I can't believe we were blatently lied to. I wish there was a solution for us, but there is seriously no set-top box solution that will record video, allow us to stream music and photos to it and playback as elegantly as TiVo.

The only option would be a Mac Mini with something like an EyeTV, with iTunes Sharing and iPhoto sharing, but even then it's inelegant at best. God forbid you're with DirecTV none of those companies have serial control from their little FireWire boxes. I know I'm stuck with TiVo for another 8 months until my DirecTV contract expires. I guess I'll just hang tight until then.

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Old 04-15-2005, 12:41 AM   #19 (Print)
ZeoTiVo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iDriveX
I am seriously disappointed in this. I can't believe we were blatently lied to. .



TivoBill from 01/18/05 http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-v...0&&#post2530550
Quote:
Originally Posted by TiVoBill
You are reading too much into the fact that I haven't said anything. I havn't said anything because there is nothing new to say -- we ARE working on support for using the TiVoToGo feature on the Mac platform in the future. Because that development is ongoing, and a release date has not been scheduled at this time, I can't say any more.


and also 01/18/05 same thread a few posts down
Quote:
Originally Posted by TiVoBill
I think there are a few misconceptions going on here. As far as I know, TiVo never announced that TiVoToGo would be available at launch for the Mac platform (or the Windows platform for that matter). Versions of TiVoToGo were developed for the Windows and Mac platforms in parallel. It just so happens that the TiVo Desktop for Windows was completed in time for launch and the Mac version was not. We continue to work on it. It wasn't known until the very end if there would be a Mac version at launch time or not so there wasn't any time for communication about something that we never announced in the first place. I understand your disappointment though -- I have a iBook that I would love to be able to use TiVoToGo on, but I have to be patient for now. All other discussion is just speculation and really is unnecessary at this point.


and TiVoBill from 01/20/05 same thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by TiVoBill
I don't know how much more clearly I can say "there is no release date scheduled." Do you want me to make a date up?



how anyone gets from this that TTG for Mac is right around the corner is beyond me. TiVo did indeed say they were working on it but could not give any kind of release date The only question left is WHEN did the CFO know that TTG for Mac was too expensive? At what point did the engineers throw their hands up and say they could not make any of their ideas work? If someone can definitively say it was in 2004 or before January 20th this year then, yes TiVo lied. otherwise what happened is that TiVo really screwed up on TTG for Mac and this happens and any Mac user that wants shows off a DVR will have to vote with their wallet and find a solution that works for them and be pissed that TiVo screwed up. But trying to say TiVo said all along they would release it is just not the fact.
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Old 04-15-2005, 01:14 AM   #20 (Print)
boscodegama
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avichaiyl
I just can't understand why a platform agnostic DRM scheme was used (when has the word scheme ever described something good) .


That's a joke right? Maybe I'm uninformed, but are there any? It seems to me DRM enforcement is inheriently platform dependent as no one plays nice.

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Old 04-15-2005, 05:31 AM   #21 (Print)
chessplayer
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This is very disappointing, and it's annoying having been deceived for so long.

Even now, the help webpage http://customersupport.tivo.com/kno...lic/tv2181.htm? says they are "working hard" on TiVoToGo support for the Mac, and continuing to lie to customers who don't know/care about these forums. How long does it take to change that statement, and for how long has TiVo known that they would not support the Mac?

The only upside is that it's nice to have gotten a straight statement for once from someone at TiVo, since I was getting tired of being strung along hearing that they are "working hard" on this.
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Old 04-15-2005, 06:36 AM   #22 (Print)
HDTiVo
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Great research by ZeoTiVo.

The Win and Mac versions were developed "in parallel," and they didn't know the Mac version would not come out at launch "until the very end;" a point in time too short to even communicate about it. Apparently another 3 months is also too short a time to communicate about it as well.

Just prior to launch, the Mac version had to be almost complete or there is a serious problem with management at TiVo in supervising product development. Three months later the almost complete theory falls away, leaving the other impression.

Then we go from almost complete (or management chaos) straight to too expensive and we ain't gonna do it. If it was almost complete or even developed in parallel, how does TiVo get to too expensive?

This is a portrait of a company in disaray.

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Old 04-15-2005, 07:21 AM   #23 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTiVo
Just prior to launch, the Mac version had to be almost complete or there is a serious problem with management at TiVo in supervising product development. Three months later the almost complete theory falls away, leaving the other impression.

Then we go from almost complete (or management chaos) straight to too expensive and we ain't gonna do it. If it was almost complete or even developed in parallel, how does TiVo get to too expensive?
Not necessarily true. Eg. what was almost complete (not that TiVo ever used the words "almost complete"), a current OS solution or a Tiger solution? If TiVo is going to release TTG for the Mac, they're going to have to commit to supporting it on Mac future OS releases. I can see them having a solution for DRM under the current OS, but not having one under Tiger. It depends on what facilities Apple makes available for DRM, and whether they're willing to work with TiVo on it. The news looks bad at the moment.

Yes, if TiVo has to invent their own DRM mechanism from scratch under Tiger, I can see it being too expensive. Just as I reluctantly admit it would be very expensive for TiVo to develop a DRM mechanism under Linux.

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Old 04-15-2005, 08:29 AM   #24 (Print)
mostman
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Well - Tivo customer here for almost 5 years. I have ALWAYS been a die-hard loyal customer. I have the TiVo mug and plush dolls proudly displayed in my office and the TiVo fleece on my couch.

This is it for me. The recent trend towards advertising and the trend away from cutting edge feature development (not to mention the 10 second menu load time) has started to ever so slightly reduce my confidence in TiVo as a company and a provider of a solution that has become a neccessary element of my life.

There was a time when TiVo was on the cutting edge, developing features that were not only a market first, but innovative, and fun. I remember when the "View Recording History", "View Upcoming.." and the "WishList" features were released - that was when TiVo was on top of their game. Now the innovations are limited to marketing, all at the expense of software that most people will tell you, has some nasty bugs. This NEVER happened before. 3 years ago when TiVo released software, it was solid. Yes, small bugs were found, but they were always fixed immediately.

With a little work, I can setup some MythTV boxes in my house, and be done with it. A solution that not only provides me better control, but one that is now far more advanced than that which TiVo provides.

Its been great riding with you TiVo - but I'm afraid we now need to part ways...


-Mike
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Old 04-15-2005, 09:29 AM   #25 (Print)
ZeoTiVo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTiVo
Just prior to launch, the Mac version had to be almost complete or there is a serious problem with management at TiVo in supervising product development. Three months later the almost complete theory falls away, leaving the other impression.


Quote:
Originally Posted by TiVoBill 01/18/05
I think there are a few misconceptions going on here. As far as I know, TiVo never announced that TiVoToGo would be available at launch for the Mac platform (or the Windows platform for that matter). Versions of TiVoToGo were developed for the Windows and Mac platforms in parallel. It just so happens that the TiVo Desktop for Windows was completed in time for launch and the Mac version was not. We continue to work on it. It wasn't known until the very end if there would be a Mac version at launch time or not


what serious problem with management if it was not close to complete? They never announceed there would be a Mac TTG at launch of TTG so it was strictly internal discussion. No deadline date for telling people they had to reverse the previous annopuncement. So Management could have been looking at all kinds of ways to support TTG for Mac. They may have even been looking at not having DRM on the platform or bringing back the USB dongle as a way to release it for all we know. So instead they kept quiet to the public about anything since they had nothing much to say and instead worked on "what the hell could they do?" right up to release time. No one outside TiVo, except maybe Apple, knows how far along a TTG for Mac is or is not. All we know for certain now is that one will not be released this year and most likely not released in 2006 either.

Did TiVo management screw up? Yes. But it was back at the birth of what to do about DRM back in 2004 when decisions were made that sent them down this path of no DRM for the Mac. Looks like they should have stayed with the USB dongle.

the other screw up is so typical of TiVo. They let it be some minor statement form some TiVo executive that has to make the blog rounds to get anywhere. Why they could not just issue a press release formalizing what they need to say and giving an explanation for the course of events is beyond me. They could certainly let Apple see it before they release it if they are concerned about backlash there.
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Old 04-15-2005, 09:33 AM   #26 (Print)
Fat Tony
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Wait. Does anybody else hear that? That soft giggle of Billy Gates over there in the corner??

Oh well, it's a sad thing, but I'm glad I dropped Tivo a little while ago. But I also can't wait to see the blood on the board and exodus in the next few days. My condolences to my Mac peers that held strong.
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Old 04-15-2005, 09:40 AM   #27 (Print)
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It's sad...

I was going to by a third tivo, but now I am not. I'm also going to actively start looking into alternatives. I hate having to use my PC just to save some show to take with me. Plus, I think the pop up ads will annoy me and if they do, I'll be even more diligent in finding a replacement. Which is sad. My family loves the tivo, but all this is just too much. So the CFO is complaining that it takes too much money to develop the mac version, well, NOT developing for the Mac will also loose Tivo some money too.
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Old 04-15-2005, 09:42 AM   #28 (Print)
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Hmmm...this is news to me. Let me do some digging this morning and see what's up.

Pony

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Old 04-15-2005, 09:58 AM   #29 (Print)
UMRK
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I'm certainly a Mac fan (I have both), but I (selfishly) TTG/Sonic is currently BROKEN, period, and I wish they would fix it (i.e release 2.1 soon). Playing TTG files and attempting to burn them to disk, ususally bombs with a misguided DRM message, in the way windows used to just crash randomly. Oh, wait, surprise, Microsoft wrote the DRM for TTG!
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Old 04-15-2005, 10:00 AM   #30 (Print)
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I hope TiVo Pony comes back with something good.

Sorry but even with the quotes from TiVo Pony, if what the CFO said is true, we were decieved.

Let's assume some things here:

- A TiVo representative said that the Windows and Mac version were being developed in parrallel development cycles.
- A TiVo representative said that they did not know they would not be released at the same time.
- A TiVo representative says that he cannot see the Mac version of TiVo2Go come out for atleast 2 years.
- It takes Apple 2 years to completely re-write, seed, and produce a new Operating System.
- (Speculation) TiVo2Go has already been in development for about a year.

I find it hard to believe if the above facts are true because they came from TiVo representatives that it will actually take approx. 3 years to develop and produce a Mac version of TiVo2Go. No DRM or software takes that long to create (unless you count Longhorn and this isn't NEARLY as complex as that). They need to establish a business partnership with either Apple or even the open source VLC or MPlayer people to allow this to work on the Mac. Or they are just looking at cutting costs, which sucks for us, but as a public company they have a responsibility to look after the people they really care for: Their Shareholders.

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