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Old 05-10-2005, 02:09 PM   #151 (Print)
ignipotentis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drjlb
What I do think TiVo should do is investigate why this is happening. If it is a problem with the disk that the update uncovered (which I think it is in my case) that's my problem as you so less than subtly pointed out. If it is a problem with the update (which apparently some people feel that it is) then TiVo should be rectifying the situation. They will never know unless they look at the drives (either remotely or in their labs).


Heh, I like rational thought . We have the same symptoms, and we diagnose it differently. Yet, we both have the same concludions. If it is a hard drive issue, we will deal with it. If it isn't, TiVo should deal with it. All we are asking for is a little help in confirming this either way before having to pony up some more cash.

My reasons for having TiVo deal with it if it isn't a HDD issue are simple. I don't have a choice in these updates. I can't downgrade to a different software version because I don't think this one is working correctly. I'm at TiVo's mercy. If it is indeed their software which is the issue, then I think they should fix it.
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Old 05-10-2005, 02:10 PM   #152 (Print)
ashu
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We *should* move this off this announcement thread!

I think you're guilty of a few convenient (mis)interpretations on my behalf as well

I did not imply that customers are NEEDED or EXPECTED to run diagnostics themselves - you're perfectly welcome to have them run them for you, in their 'labs', as long as you cover labor. And my 'not subtle' way was not meant to be offensive. How else is one expected to express the opinion that "a faulty disk (see next paragraph for disclaimer, lest you misinterpret me again) WILL die sometime ... most likely coincidentally during what happened to be an update-forced-reboot".

I do unserstand, and clearly mentioned, that I was NOT addressing the issue that this (issue) may have arisen as a result of the upgrade, and NOT an underlying disk error. I'm not TiVo, and can't say what they *should* do in that case.

Nothing blind about any of this - I only addressed one case.

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Old 05-10-2005, 02:23 PM   #153 (Print)
ignipotentis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ashu
We *should* move this off this announcement thread!


http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-v...ad.php?t=239121
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Old 05-10-2005, 04:33 PM   #154 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chedlin
I thought the tivo had a way of calling in and activating a diagnostics mode to allow TiVo remote access. I could be mistaken, but this seems like something I have seen hints of while hacking mine.

If this mode exists, it would be a very good way for TiVo to have an idea of what is wrong with it short of doing a replacement.


This technology is imbedded in most TiVo boxes. It's called kickstart. You can initiate a kickstart from your remote (there is a 1 or 2 second window to enter special remote commands when the TiVo is booting). But if you want TiVo (the company) to have remote access, then they must be ready for the kickstart -- so you'd have to convince customer support to proceed in this fashion.

I've done a kickstart mfscheck on my TiVo before when I was in a pinch. Not recommended for the technologically squeamish -- it can completely hose an otherwise fixable machine.

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Old 05-11-2005, 03:27 AM   #155 (Print)
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Bill,

Could you let us know if 7.1b will be fixing the "To Do List" issues?
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Old 05-11-2005, 08:20 AM   #156 (Print)
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i don't feel like shuffling through 8 pages of posts. has anyone received the 7.1b...had the pixellation issue fixed...and then got the pixellation issue back? mine worked w/out pixellation for about 2 days and now it's back to its crappy self. i showed a friend tivo the other night and he was like "does it always start off that slow in the beginning of the show?"...i told him it was tivo and he said "i'm not spending $200 for something that screws my picture up...even if it only lasts 10 seconds." i don't see me getting referrals for a while...

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Old 05-11-2005, 08:52 AM   #157 (Print)
davemcs
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40 hour TCD24004A received the 7.1B update last night... While feeding our newborn I noticed the "line in use" light on our phone start flashing...took at least 20 mins. so I figured it was a BIG download and probably 7.1b. Menu's are MUCH faster..didnt have pixel problems though (not running through a cable box on this unit)

I set the downstairs Weaknees-modded unit for a d/l as I left for work this AM..this one runs though a Comcast digi-cable box ans suffers the pixels, slowdowns etc. Let's hope this unit received the update this AM....because I'm starting to pine for the days of 4.X software!!

Update..no update for the "main unit" Still running 7.1a...

Ah well..we'll wait and see

Last edited by davemcs : 05-11-2005 at 09:45 PM.
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Old 05-11-2005, 01:10 PM   #158 (Print)
ripple_024
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ne1?

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Old 05-11-2005, 01:50 PM   #159 (Print)
dolfer
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TivoBill,

Does the fix address the poor performance and slow menu redraws? FYI, I also have the "double button press" issue. I would be willing to help with it as well.

If a new remote is the answer, can't Tivo come through with new remotes for those affected?

I'm trying to keep a level head, but it seems like this update is not fixing any of the main issues that have ruined many people's Tivo experience - double remote press, poor performance, slow menus.

I have been waiting now for months for a resolution to this problem and it looks more and more like we are going to be abandoned... i feel your pain dropD...

P.S. Actually, if Tivo thinks that the number of affected users is so small, then it shouldn't be too much of a problem to offer us replacement units!!!!! Where's the sign up form???

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Old 05-11-2005, 05:12 PM   #160 (Print)
HDTiVo
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Why is it taking so many weeks to roll this out?

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Old 05-11-2005, 06:16 PM   #161 (Print)
ignipotentis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dolfer
P.S. Actually, if Tivo thinks that the number of affected users is so small, then it shouldn't be too much of a problem to offer us replacement units!!!!! Where's the sign up form???


This would be admitting a software update has rendered a unit beyond remote repair.
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Old 05-11-2005, 08:00 PM   #162 (Print)
rog
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTiVo
Why is it taking so many weeks to roll this out?


Good question. I still don't have the 7.1b update. It seems like it's been a long time, no?

I just looked back though... this is from TiVoBill on 04/21/05:

Quote:
Originally Posted by TiVoBill
There will not be a priority list available. The entire rollout should only take a couple of weeks though, so it won't take long for everybody to have it. Some people will get it tonight and some more early next week. No need to start forcing hourly connections.


Oh... ok. I guess it's only been about 3 weeks. That's only 1 week past "a couple". I'm still gonna be patient. Let's not turn this into the 7.1a thread!

I'm still at a loss as to why it takes TiVo 1 or 2 months to update a fraction of thier subscriber base however...

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Old 05-11-2005, 09:35 PM   #163 (Print)
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I got my 7.1b update for my 540 unit last night.

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Old 05-12-2005, 12:18 AM   #164 (Print)
HDTiVo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rog
Oh... ok. I guess it's only been about 3 weeks. That's only 1 week past "a couple". I'm still gonna be patient. Let's not turn this into the 7.1a thread!

I'm still at a loss as to why it takes TiVo 1 or 2 months to update a fraction of thier subscriber base however...


Seems like so much longer, exacerbated by the fact that I got it on one unit in a few days, then over 2 weeks passed for the next unit and there are still 2 units to go. Having b on some units makes a seem so much worse on the others. Perception has become more important than reality for me.

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Old 05-12-2005, 06:18 AM   #165 (Print)
rainwater
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rog
I'm still at a loss as to why it takes TiVo 1 or 2 months to update a fraction of thier subscriber base however...


A fraction? 7.1b is going out to everyone who has 7.1a. That means all S2 units except the DVD burner combos.
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Old 05-12-2005, 08:23 AM   #166 (Print)
ripple_024
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i have 7.1b and my sh*t is still broke. hell, it's even worse than what it was with 7.1a!

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Old 05-12-2005, 09:12 AM   #167 (Print)
jdivola
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No 30 Second Advance Either w/Upgrade?

Was this feature removed with the upgrade?
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Old 05-12-2005, 09:27 AM   #168 (Print)
gonzotek
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdivola
Was this feature removed with the upgrade?

No, but it was probably disabled when the TiVo rebooted. It has to be enabled any time the TiVo reboots, including power outages, forced restarts, and upgrades.

Bring up a previously recorded program and begin watching it, then enter the following with your remote:
Select-Play-Select-3-0-Select
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Old 05-12-2005, 09:35 AM   #169 (Print)
thenightfly42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dolfer
... I also have the "double button press" issue. I would be willing to help with it as well. If a new remote is the answer, can't Tivo come through with new remotes for those affected? ... if Tivo thinks that the number of affected users is so small, then it shouldn't be too much of a problem to offer us replacement units!!!!! Where's the sign up form???

Personally, if TiVo were willing to sell us new remotes at-cost, I'd be willing to do that. I already have a case number in the TiVo system for my double-press issue.
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Old 05-12-2005, 09:35 AM   #170 (Print)
Guyute1210
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Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by wtb
I got my 7.1b update for my 540 unit last night.


Are you sure that you got 7.1b on a 540 unit. From what i have seen, bill said that the rollout was for the older Series 2's and NOT the 540 units. Someone correct me if I am wrong.

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Old 05-12-2005, 09:37 AM   #171 (Print)
gonzotek
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You're wrong. Sorry .
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-v...2&&#post2847002
Quote:
Originally Posted by TiVoBill
The 7.1b release is going to all customers who currently have 7.1 or 7.1a since it addresses some other bugs as well (the infamous Fast Forward Tag bug in particular).
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Old 05-12-2005, 09:44 AM   #172 (Print)
landrumdh
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I got the update the other day on my older S2 80hr and so far so good.

I no longer have the jumping on digital channel changes, and the menus aren't as slow.

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Old 05-12-2005, 09:47 AM   #173 (Print)
wtb
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guyute1210
Are you sure that you got 7.1b on a 540 unit. From what i have seen, bill said that the rollout was for the older Series 2's and NOT the 540 units. Someone correct me if I am wrong.


TiVoBill said I beleive that the 240's would get the update and the 540's would get it later when they checked it out. He said most of the problems were with the 240's so they got it first.

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Old 05-12-2005, 12:07 PM   #174 (Print)
scotthemme
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wtb
TiVoBill said I beleive that the 240's would get the update and the 540's would get it later when they checked it out. He said most of the problems were with the 240's so they got it first.

He said that first but then followed up with the following...
Quote:
Originally Posted by TiVoBill
The 7.1b release is going to all customers who currently have 7.1 or 7.1a since it addresses some other bugs as well (the infamous Fast Forward Tag bug in particular).

And plenty of people with 540 and 590 TiVo's have chimed in to say they got the update and it either fixed their problems or did nothing.

TiVoBill ... are the pixelation and audio problems people are seeing with 240, 540 and 590 boxes something TiVo is aware of and working on? Or is the official stance that we all had hard drive failures that were unmasked by the 7.1 update or a system restart?
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Old 05-12-2005, 12:08 PM   #175 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gonzotek
He also said (in the very first post of this thread) "The only exceptions at this time are TiVo boxes starting with 540 and 590 – for those boxes a separate, additional software release to address this issue is being worked on."

At first I took that to mean 540 and 590 would not get 7.1b at this time. Because I focused on the word "separate" and did not notice the word "additional". So I guess that means 540 and 590 units will get 7.1b but that it will not fix some of the problems on those units and will require an additional patch to address them specifically?
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Old 05-12-2005, 04:45 PM   #176 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rog
I'm still at a loss as to why it takes TiVo 1 or 2 months to update a fraction of thier subscriber base however...


Quote:
Originally Posted by rainwater
A fraction? 7.1b is going out to everyone who has 7.1a. That means all S2 units except the DVD burner combos.


It's not going to any of the HD or DirecTiVo's. It's not going to Series 1 boxes. It's not going to Series 2 boxes with DVD burners.

Like I said, the software update is only going to a fraction of TiVo's overall subscriber base. Less than half, obviously, once you throw out DirecTiVo's especially.

Why should it take that long to roll out an update? I've seen much smaller software houses distribute patches and updates in a few days.

The only thing I can think of as a potential major hurdle for TiVo is the volume of units that have to call in over landlines and download the files at a slow transfer rate. That would require a fairly large modem pool somewhere. Does TiVo own modem pools in regional centers, or do they contract that service out, or what? I use broadband and don't know how that really works.

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Old 05-12-2005, 10:35 PM   #177 (Print)
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I have a 120 Series, will I get 7.1b? Not sure if I have pixilation, but definately have double remote problems and slowness (which a good reboot helps IMO).
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Old 05-13-2005, 10:30 AM   #178 (Print)
Guyute1210
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rog
The only thing I can think of as a potential major hurdle for TiVo is the volume of units that have to call in over landlines and download the files at a slow transfer rate. That would require a fairly large modem pool somewhere. Does TiVo own modem pools in regional centers, or do they contract that service out, or what? I use broadband and don't know how that really works.


For my connection through the phone it is to my local isp that i use(that is how i noticed it). My ISP is NetZero, so I speculate that TiVo pays NetZero and other major isps to use their dial up connections to download the listings.

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Old 05-13-2005, 11:13 AM   #179 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guyute1210
For my connection through the phone it is to my local isp that i use(that is how i noticed it). My ISP is NetZero, so I speculate that TiVo pays NetZero and other major isps to use their dial up connections to download the listings.


Actually, when your modem dials up TiVo it uses the connection you pay for.
What rog was refering to was that for every TiVo user connecting to TiVo's servers there has to be a modem at TiVo's end.
So if TiVo has 100 modems then only 100 TiVo owners can connect to TiVo at one time otherwise your TiVo box would get a busy signal

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Old 05-13-2005, 11:45 AM   #180 (Print)
mmascari
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ukaussi
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guyute1210
For my connection through the phone it is to my local isp that i use(that is how i noticed it). My ISP is NetZero, so I speculate that TiVo pays NetZero and other major isps to use their dial up connections to download the listings.

Actually, when your modem dials up TiVo it uses the connection you pay for.
What rog was refereing to was that for every TiVo user connecting to TiVo's servers there has to be a modem at TiVo's end.
So if TiVo has 100 modems then only 100 TiVo owners can connect to TiVo at one time otherwise your TiVo box would get a busy signal


This answer completely incorrect.

TiVo contracts with Internet Point of Presence operators for it's dial up connections. Some of these could be operated by NetZero, or NetZero may just contract with the same company. The TiVo uses it's own account to make the dial up connection. After that, the TiVo simply has a connection to the Internet. The interaction with the TiVo Inc servers is over the Internet just like any other web browsing activity (in fact, it's HTTP just like browsing). It's a guarantee that TiVo Inc has a high speed dedicated connection to the Internet for it's servers. But no matter what, there is no way to tell what that connection looks like from the outside.

What rog was referring to is if TiVo owned and maintained the dial up pool, or if they contracted with someone else. The answer is that they contract with someone else. Several companies in fact.

There could still be a volume issue, just like when a web site get's popular and the server cannot handle the increased simultaneous load. This is one reason they ask people not to force several calls a day, since it increases the load and you will not get the update any quicker. It's unlikely this is the load problem though, since it's easily planned for, and easy to ramp up for from a technology perspective.

The real reason that updates take so long is the customer support load. Every time a TiVo gets an update, it displays a message about the update. Some percentage of people call customer service with questions every time this happens. Maybe stupid questions like "What's this and why did I get it?" or maybe real questions like "I don't understand how to use the new feature listed in the message." Whatever the reason for the call, TiVo Inc has the history for how call volumes are affected when an update is deployed. Keeping this call volume manageable is why the update takes so long to deploy to all users. Especially since ramping up operators for a short time requires hiring people, training them, and possibly firing them when the volume drops, there is a huge incentive to keep this volume as flat as possible.
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