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Old 06-18-2005, 12:11 PM   #1 (Print)
starbucksfreak
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DIRECTV Hr10-250 Class Action

The "HDMI Failure Poll" thread is nearly a year old and while it has been a useful mechanism for owners of failed units to commiserate about the frustrations of repeat failures of this high dollar DIRECTV product and dealing with an ineffective customer response process by the company, there is no indication that customers who bought this unit and have gone through this unfortunate experience are being fully compensated without suffering loss of some sort.

I am not an attorney, but has anyone within this forum investigated the possibility of initiating some type of class action proceedings against DIRECTV to compel the company to take a more responsible approach to the HR10-250 owners? Perhaps the group size or number of owners is insufficient to justify or qualify, but if there are any forum readers out there with knowledge or expertise in this area, please advise.
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Old 06-18-2005, 12:54 PM   #2 (Print)
Jim Golden
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Thank you for this thread. This definately needs to happen. I believe that DirecTV is knowingly selling a defective product. I am waiting on my third receiver and have been waiting almost 20 days with no definitive date for replacement. I did finally get an email today saying they've been backordered.

I have contacted the Consumers Protection Division in my state and filed a complaint. If they can't resolve the issue I'll have to sue DirecTV in small claims court. Won't that be odd?

Jim
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Old 06-18-2005, 02:02 PM   #3 (Print)
DTV TiVo Dealer
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What loss can be substantiated considering you could use component video connections to enjoy HD programming while waiting for a advance replacement??

Regarding the HDMI problem itself, DIRECTV fixed it by completely re-designing the HDMI board in late November 2004. HR10-250's manufactured after December 2004 work perfectly, of course, you may find an occasional defect, but that would be well within normal acceptable standards.

Anyway, with DIRECTV fixing the problem, advance replacing any defective units and your ability to view HD through the component video outputs I don't see why anyone would have a legale issue.

Anyone who has experienced a problem getting DIRECTV to deliver the advance replacement should call their original selling dealer. I have helped hundreds of users get immediate replacements hassel free.

-Robert

VE Advanced Digital Technology Dealer
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Old 06-18-2005, 02:54 PM   #4 (Print)
Mikehdtv
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If they want to sell a product that only has a component HD output then maybe they should drop the price to say $399!
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Old 06-18-2005, 02:55 PM   #5 (Print)
skofarrell
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As I gaze at the $0.41 refund on my latest Amex statement (that was provided to me as part of the last class action I qualifed for), my only thought is that the only winners in any class action suit are the lawyers.
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Old 06-18-2005, 03:04 PM   #6 (Print)
Jim Golden
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Quote:
Anyway, with DIRECTV fixing the problem, advance replacing any defective units and your ability to view HD through the component video outputs I don't see why anyone would have a legale issue.


Robert, I'm not sure I agree with you. Using this logic, one could argue that if one of my four doors on my car operated correctly I wouldn't have a complaint because I could still "use" a separate door to enter my car to drive from point A to point B. Is this what you'd say to someone who bought a new car but couldn't open the drivers side door?

The fact of the matter is that most of us paid roughly $1000 for our units (which to many is a large sum of money) and they have a known problem with the HDMI. I believe a product (the whole product) should work. In addition, DirecTV is not providing "easy" replacements on these receivers. The first CSR I talked to (with this unit) said they would not replace the unit because I could use other outputs. It wasn't till I called back, after reading the warranty, and told the CSR that their warranty states I'm entitled to a repair or replacement unless the damage was due to willfill destruction or negligence on my part. The second CSR agreed I was entitled to a replacement and committed to sending a replacement; that was 20 days, 6~1/2 hour phone calls and two emails ago!

Still, your suggestion of contacting the dealer who sold you the unit and asking for assistance is a good one! If I don't get my issue resolved soon I'll call for your assistance

Jim
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Old 06-18-2005, 03:41 PM   #7 (Print)
robnalex
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Golden

Still, your suggestion of contacting the dealer who sold you the unit and asking for assistance is a good one! If I don't get my issue resolved soon I'll call for your assistance
Since it's obviously such a big deal for you, why wait?

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Old 06-18-2005, 04:14 PM   #8 (Print)
Jim Golden
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[QUOTE]Since it's obviously such a big deal for you, why wait?

I need to give some time for the actions I've already taken to work. I sent them an email yesterday and they did (finally) contact me today to say that they are out of stock. I also filed my complaint with the Attorney General's Consumer Protection Division yesterday.

l'll give these actions a few days to work before I ask Robert to step in.
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Old 06-18-2005, 05:17 PM   #9 (Print)
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Using a 4 door car with only 3 doors is not the same as using component video to view HD vs DVI or HDMI. In fact, most people like the image quality better over the HDMI output. The car example leaves you with a disadvantage; viewing HD through a different HD port for a few days does not.

And what did you possible read from my post or any anyone else that would make you say If they want to sell a product that only has a component HD output then maybe they should drop the price to say $399! The problem is permanently fixed a long time ago.

Please folks lets worry and even complain about real issues not ones that have already been resolved, and for heavens sake letís not encourage any more frivolous law suites.

-Robert

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Old 06-18-2005, 06:49 PM   #10 (Print)
dfioc
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[QUOTE=DTV TiVo Dealer]

Please folks lets worry and even complain about real issues not ones that have already been resolved, and for heavens sake letís not encourage any more frivolous law suites.

----------------
I couldn't have said it better myself. Why are we so quick to the "I'm gonna sue" mentality when something goes wrong? S*** happens sometimes....products contain defects. But for crying out loud, allow the problem to fixed (which it has) and think about how you've been damaged.

What would be your point or goal of this? What a ridiculous waste of time and resources. As has been said, the only ones who win at frivolous litigation, and this would fall squarely in that category, are the lawyers....

The rest of us end up with less choice at a higher cost. Think about that....
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Old 06-18-2005, 07:57 PM   #11 (Print)
AbMagFab
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And many of us prefer the HDMI output over the component. We purchased a device with specific features and hardware, and the failure rate is way beyond acceptable CE norms.

Regarding this thread, class action is probably silly, but Robert's point that we should be happy with component is assinine.

And based on the HDMI thread, it doesn't seem permanently fixed (at least based on posted manufacture dates).

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Old 06-18-2005, 09:47 PM   #12 (Print)
TomRaz
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Perhaps as a good will gesture D* should offer a longer warranty free of charge for the HD Tivo's as long as they are supported until their own DVR takes over later this year or next year.

I know that is only a short term solution but at least it wouldn't leave the HD Tivo owners responsivble for hdmi related failures after the warranty runs out.

I just hope the new mp4 unit they are coming out has software that works !
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Old 06-18-2005, 09:58 PM   #13 (Print)
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The HDMI problem is permanently fixed. Their is no issue any more.

I only suggested using component for the few days it takes to get your Fed Ex advance replacement DVR, what is asinine about that??

-Robert

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Old 06-18-2005, 10:11 PM   #14 (Print)
robnalex
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We are living in a time when many people have been reared to believe that they are very, very special and entitled to have exactly what they want when they want it. This explains a lot of what we read on forums like this and what goes on in the world today: grown adults throwing baby tantrums.

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Old 06-18-2005, 10:12 PM   #15 (Print)
ebonovic
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Once I heard about the upcomming MPEG-4, and the eventual switch out.

I stopped worring about my HDMI not working... or replacing the unit again, to get one that was working.

I went ahead, and finally updated my DVD player to a DVI version... Got one for just under $100 (Samsung) after some coupons and rebates....

Now, I have two work units, didn't lose all my recordings, and have to deal with the replacement issues.

People who have a bigger gripe, are those that have "HDTV-Ready TV's" and their vendors want $1,000+ for the parts to allow it to do HD... (The first Mitsubishi HDTVs)...

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Old 06-18-2005, 10:52 PM   #16 (Print)
Jim Golden
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Quote:
We are living in a time when many people have been reared to believe that they are very, very special and entitled to have exactly what they want when they want it. This explains a lot of what we read on forums like this and what goes on in the world today: grown adults throwing baby tantrums.


This is not it at all! I'm not asking for anymore than what I paid for...The HDMI is a feature on the unit. It is not unreasonable or childish to expect it to work. Expecting people to settle for less than what they paid for is what hurt our automobile industry in the 1970's and 1980's.

As far as waiting a few days....I have been waiting for 19 days with no date of resolution in sight. Just as some here cannot understand why this bothers me, I can not understand the willingness of some to believe that this practice is acceptable.
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Old 06-19-2005, 01:33 AM   #17 (Print)
litzdog911
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I heard that my HR10-250 will be obsoleted soon by something called "MPEG4". I think I'll sue.

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Old 06-19-2005, 02:47 AM   #18 (Print)
starbucksfreak
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What loss can be substantiated? I think plenty. Nearly $1,000 for a unit that was flawed to begin with. The pricing of the HR10-250 included the ability to connect via HDMI--and that did not and still does not work properly after the supposed November hardware fix and the f software upgrade in March. The time spent talking and writing ti DirecTV and being moved from contact center re to rep. The amount of time I had to spend to move out my cabinetry six times to gain access to the unit and get it out for shipping back. I thnk there are likely more costs and damages that will come out.
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Old 06-19-2005, 03:06 AM   #19 (Print)
starbucksfreak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DTV TiVo Dealer
The HDMI problem is permanently fixed. Their is no issue any more.

I only suggested using component for the few days it takes to get your Fed Ex advance replacement DVR, what is asinine about that??

-Robert

VE Advanced Digital Technology Dealer


No--The HDMI issue is not permanently fixed, because they are still breaking. They continue to manufacture and sell defective units, and that, in itself, seems criminal. The "f" software patch does not work for many owners, and the company admits it still is does not have a permanent solution for all defective units.
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Old 06-19-2005, 03:16 AM   #20 (Print)
nuke
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My over 1 year old HD Tivo is still working on HDMI.

Hard drive tanked about 6 months in, but it has been working well otherwise.
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Old 06-19-2005, 06:38 AM   #21 (Print)
Mikehdtv
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DTV TiVo Dealer
The HDMI problem is permanently fixed. Their is no issue any more.
VE Advanced Digital Technology Dealer



LOL
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Old 06-19-2005, 08:42 AM   #22 (Print)
MikeO
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DTV TiVo Dealer
What loss can be substantiated considering you could use component video connections to enjoy HD programming while waiting for a advance replacement??


Anyone who has experienced a problem getting DIRECTV to deliver the advance replacement should call their original selling dealer. I have helped hundreds of users get immediate replacements hassel free.

-Robert

VE Advanced Digital Technology Dealer



I purchased mine last month from VE, had the HDMI issue within the 1st month. I emailed VE, gave them the info they requested via 2 emails ( easy ). I had my replacement at my door ( from DTV ) 2 days later.

This was the absolute BEST exchange I have ever had on a product.

Thanks again!

mike
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Old 06-19-2005, 09:08 AM   #23 (Print)
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It's strange that anyone that bought a product that was represented to have a particular feature (right on the box, in plain view) that doesn't work would take the attitude 'well, just don't use that feature, no big deal'. If a product is sold advertising a feature, that feature should work. I use my HDMI port because I'm using my component inputs for other things, but that's really beside the point.

I'm on my fourth unit now, all dead HDMI boards. The problem MAY be fixed, but the replacement unit I just got last week has the old-style HDMI board. DTV knows these have problems, they supposedly have a fix, so why are they sending out replacement units that still have defective boards? And no, it's not a 'software problem', unless by some magic the software can tell when the HDMI board is flexed and work again, until the board is released. It's most likely either a pad bonding problem or a defective trace on the board.

While our culture does have a 'sue over anything' mentality, sometimes that's what it takes. A company that actually cared about customers would have taken responsibility for the problem, even if there wasn't an immediate fix. I shouldn't have to spend *hours* on the phone to get them to resolve an issue they know full-well is a defect in their product.

Side-note to Robert - It's great that you support your customers, but why should you have to deal with this hassle, either? While that's part of what a dealer does, I'd be pretty annoyed if I had unhappy customers because of product defects my supplier kept shipping, all the while denying those defects exist.

Anyway, flame off for now.

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Old 06-19-2005, 09:32 AM   #24 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Golden
It is not unreasonable or childish to expect it to work.
No, it's not. But threatening law suits and complaining to your State's Attorney General's office is a bit over the top. I'd be pi$$ed of too if I had to wait that long for a replacement, but I'd certainly contact the selling dealer for assistance and stay on top of DirecTV. But if they really are back ordered they can't send you one 'till they have one. Most adults have more important priorities than making a major project out of something like this.

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Old 06-19-2005, 10:19 AM   #25 (Print)
Jim Golden
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Most adults have more important priorities than making a major project out of something like this.


Most adults don't understand the whole "home theater craze" in general and are probably shocked that there's a web site devoted to discussing issues associated with TIVO.
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Old 06-19-2005, 10:35 AM   #26 (Print)
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Well, maybe not shocked, but they certainly wouldn't get it. My name is Rob, and I'm a TiVoholic. In fact, my 2 HR10-250s are my most treasured toys! The fact that some of them have problems is why I have two. One of them recently started acting up and then croaked, but I was never out of business while getting it replaced (which was a one day exchange with hassles at Circuit City.

So, those who are without a working unit have my deepest and most sincere sympathy. If I were in that boat I'd have to go to a couple of extra TiVoholics Anonymous meetings every day until getting a replacement. So I really do understand the people who are going over the edge and talking litigation. They just need to go to more meetings.

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Old 06-19-2005, 10:56 AM   #27 (Print)
Jim Golden
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If I were in that boat I'd have to go to a couple of extra TiVoholics Anonymous meetings every day until getting a replacement. So I really do understand the people who are going over the edge and talking litigation. They just need to go to more meetings.


LOL

Jim
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Old 06-19-2005, 02:42 PM   #28 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robnalex
We are living in a time when many people have been reared to believe that they are very, very special and entitled to have exactly what they want when they want it. This explains a lot of what we read on forums like this and what goes on in the world today: grown adults throwing baby tantrums.


That's very true--But we also live in a time when corporations and those that run them have lost touch with that which differentiates the truly world class from all the rest--customer experience (and accountability!). The unfortunate fact with the DirecTV/HR10-250 issue is that the company has not responded in a very timely/responsive manner to addressing the concerns and overall experience of what likely are some of their most loyal customers.

Really, if they surveyed those customers now, how would they rate their overall experience? Likely not exceeding expectations and more likely unacceptable. In my view, that should be a wake-up call to the company that in the unlikely event some type of class action complaint would actually get filed, they do not have much of a world-class customer response process for this specific issue to show the judge.

Facts:


  • High price point product
  • Key feature (HDMI port) flawed
  • Key feature (HDMI port) incompatible with many HD TV brands
  • Software updates ineffective
  • Product still being sold with flawed feature
  • Inconsistent customer service response by DirecTV
  • Swap out program ineffective (bad units replaced with bad units; $1000 debits to customers' accounts)
  • No assurances from DirecTV that HR10--250 owners will be protected post-warranty


Let's just pretend this was the basis for a complaint and let's assume the number of affected HR10-250 owners is significant, how would this company answer?
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Old 06-19-2005, 03:08 PM   #29 (Print)
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Directv customer service has gone to hell since Murdoch took over.
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Old 06-19-2005, 04:33 PM   #30 (Print)
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You should all just have multiple HD Tivos, like me, then you could live without the one with an HDMI problem while watching on one of your other many units....rofl

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