TiVo Community Forum

TiVo Community Forum Archive 2
Covering threads with a last post date between
July 1, 2004 and December 31, 2005.
THIS IS A READ ONLY SITE
 


 

SEARCH  |  ARCHIVE 1 MAIN SITE

 
Forum Jump
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 08-02-2005, 10:23 AM   #121 (Print)
akaye
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Helmerichs
That's simple prejudice (on the part of the colonists). I assume you would agree that there are difference between human beings and machines; the people on the show can't find any except for Balthar's test, which only seems to show that Spylon DNA degenerates faster than baseline human DNA when exposed to radiation..


I only peripherally remeber the details of Baltar's technobabble description of how his detector works, but I don't think that was it.
Adama hypothesised that the radiation did something to "the silica relays in their cylon brains" or some such.

Quote:
And I think the prejudice angle is deliberate. These people's reaction to the Spylons is irrational--they hate them, and refuse to accept that some of them might be effectively human. I think that will play a major role down the line.


I think you're right...that plot line echos Witch Hunts, McCarthyism, Racial Profiling, etc.
Nonetheless it IS on-screen evidence, weak and biased though it may be, and I will take what actually happens on screen over fan theory everytime until something else on screen contradicts or clarifies it.

If nothing is said on screen (a la spine glow) that's a different matter.

AK
akaye is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 08-02-2005, 10:24 AM   #122 (Print)
Skittles
Vegas, here I come!
 
Skittles's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Richardson, TX
Posts: 13,877
Send a message via AIM to Skittles Send a message via Yahoo to Skittles
Quote:
Originally Posted by IndyJones1023
If they're humans, how do they have the strength, speed, and glowing spines?
It's obvious they take Cylon Steroids. I mean, the clues are all there. There's no reason NOT to think that.


__________________
What's so great about TC-Con '06? Read this thread and find out.
Skittles is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 08-02-2005, 10:27 AM   #123 (Print)
akaye
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by IndyJones1023
If they're humans, how do they have the strength, speed, and glowing spines?


See here for one possible theory.
akaye is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 08-02-2005, 10:39 AM   #124 (Print)
Rob Helmerichs
New grandfather
 
Rob Helmerichs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 8,268
And do bear in mind that the factor determining what constitutes a species is reproduction. So biologically, at least, the Spylons are technically human.

__________________
"Oh no, the mother-child bond is impossible to replicate. Even by Agent Dalton and myself."
Rob Helmerichs is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 08-02-2005, 10:46 AM   #125 (Print)
latrobe7
anomaly
 
latrobe7's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 1,554
Quote:
Originally Posted by akaye
I only peripherally remeber the details of Baltar's technobabble description of how his detector works, but I don't think that was it.


Actually, from what I remember I think Rob is right. Also, the Cylons suseptability to radiation is established early on when the PR (Doral) guy is left behind at the supply depot in the mini-series.
latrobe7 is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 08-02-2005, 10:50 AM   #126 (Print)
Anubys
God? or Poser?
 
Anubys's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Fairfax Station, VA
Posts: 3,248
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Helmerichs
And do bear in mind that the factor determining what constitutes a species is reproduction. So biologically, at least, the Spylons are technically human.


they are clearly sentient...

the cylons are what humans would like to be...they can be stronger, faster, and never die...they are the evolution!

__________________
That Anubys is a GENIUS! -- Rob Helmerichs
Anubys is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 08-02-2005, 10:52 AM   #127 (Print)
latrobe7
anomaly
 
latrobe7's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 1,554
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Helmerichs
And do bear in mind that the factor determining what constitutes a species is reproduction. So biologically, at least, the Spylons are technically human.


if they're human they should be able to reproduce among themselves. There would be far more than 12 Cylon models pretty quickly. Also, we haven't seen any young Cylons, even when Boomer was on the basestar and surrounded by other Boomers, they all appeared exactly the same age; like they where created in "batches" or they don't age. Either way, they don't seem to be reproducing like humans - yet.
latrobe7 is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 08-02-2005, 10:57 AM   #128 (Print)
TAsunder
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,347
Maybe they can reproduce but don't choose to do so. They seem to value a human/cylon hybrid as something special, so maybe their goal was never to reproduce among themselves.
TAsunder is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 08-02-2005, 10:59 AM   #129 (Print)
Anubys
God? or Poser?
 
Anubys's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Fairfax Station, VA
Posts: 3,248
Quote:
Originally Posted by latrobe7
if they're human they should be able to reproduce among themselves. There would be far more than 12 Cylon models pretty quickly. Also, we haven't seen any young Cylons, even when Boomer was on the basestar and surrounded by other Boomers, they all appeared exactly the same age; like they where created in "batches" or they don't age. Either way, they don't seem to be reproducing like humans - yet.


for each model, there has to be a first...the first model could then have the brain downloaded into a fully grown model...but how was the first model created and indoctrinated?

how different is each model and how connected are all the versions to the same model to each other...all these are questions...

but the FIRST of a model is key...I think it cannot be a clone and it was grown from at least emotional -- if not physical -- infancy...

__________________
That Anubys is a GENIUS! -- Rob Helmerichs
Anubys is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 08-02-2005, 11:01 AM   #130 (Print)
akaye
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by latrobe7
Actually, from what I remember I think Rob is right. Also, the Cylons suseptability to radiation is established early on when the PR (Doral) guy is left behind at the supply depot in the mini-series.


The radiation thing is established prior to that with the guy they found in the depot in the first place, and that's the scene I describe where Adama states his "silica relay" hypothesis or whatever he said, and I'm quite willing to accept that Adama undertands Cylon technology far better than us.

In short:
Evidence that Cylons are human: They appear human to almost all human observations.
Evidence that they are not human: Everything else that has been actually done or said so far in the show.

AK
akaye is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 08-02-2005, 11:04 AM   #131 (Print)
akaye
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anubys
for each model, there has to be a first...the first model could then have the brain downloaded into a fully grown model...but how was the first model created and indoctrinated?

how different is each model and how connected are all the versions to the same model to each other...all these are questions...

but the FIRST of a model is key...I think it cannot be a clone and it was grown from at least emotional -- if not physical -- infancy...


You say "indoctrinated" and "grown emotionally". I, and the admittedly biased and inflamed humans of the show say "programmed."

AK
akaye is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 08-02-2005, 11:05 AM   #132 (Print)
Anubys
God? or Poser?
 
Anubys's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Fairfax Station, VA
Posts: 3,248
Quote:
Originally Posted by akaye
The radiation thing is established prior to that with the guy they found in the depot in the first place, and that's the scene I describe where Adama states his "silica relay" hypothesis or whatever he said, and I'm quite willing to accept that Adama undertands Cylon technology far better than us.


I'm sorry, but that's silly...Adama is a military person...he has no science background and was exposed to this situation very early in the conflict...he made a wild guess...I'll take Baltar's analysis over Adama's guess, if you don't mind!

__________________
That Anubys is a GENIUS! -- Rob Helmerichs
Anubys is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 08-02-2005, 11:06 AM   #133 (Print)
Anubys
God? or Poser?
 
Anubys's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Fairfax Station, VA
Posts: 3,248
Quote:
Originally Posted by akaye
You say "indoctrinated" and "grown emotionally". I, and the admittedly biased and inflamed humans of the show say "programmed."

AK


I use the word indoctrinated a lot because that is the word Boomer used...

__________________
That Anubys is a GENIUS! -- Rob Helmerichs
Anubys is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 08-02-2005, 11:14 AM   #134 (Print)
akaye
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anubys
I'm sorry, but that's silly...Adama is a military person...he has no science background and was exposed to this situation very early in the conflict...he made a wild guess...I'll take Baltar's analysis over Adama's guess, if you don't mind!


Excuse me, but _I'M_ a military person, and _I_ have a science background and so does everyone else in my unit. Adama has to have had plenty of experience and training with not only the human's most advanced technology (like they used to create the Cylons) but also with the, admittedly pre-evolution, Cylon techology he was fighting against. Know your enemy.

If someone would post Baltar's dialog about the relevent stuff, I'd appriciate it, because as I said, the only part I recall is the part about detecting synthetic molecules which seems to put Baltar's theory more on my side, or at least not against me.

Is this theory about "faster DNA decay" from the show or just more fan theory?

AK
akaye is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 08-02-2005, 11:19 AM   #135 (Print)
akaye
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anubys
I use the word indoctrinated a lot because that is the word Boomer used...


Please remind me of the context...was this is the many boomers talking to boomer scene, or one of the helo scenes?

AK
akaye is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 08-02-2005, 11:20 AM   #136 (Print)
tanstaafl
Spawn of Cthulhu
 
tanstaafl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 880
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anubys
..., the president's aide, the cute black girl he likes, the Chief, the Chief's assistant, the medic that appeared on Kobol,...etc. are all candidates as agents...

Just for the record, that's Billy, Dualla, Tyrol, Cally and Selix.

__________________
Things I Will Do if I am Ever the Hero

#86 When the Evil Overlord tries to guilt-trip me by claiming that I'll be responsible for something he plans to do if I don't cooperate with him, I'll mercilessly quote Ayn Rand to him.
tanstaafl is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 08-02-2005, 11:25 AM   #137 (Print)
Rob Helmerichs
New grandfather
 
Rob Helmerichs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 8,268
Quote:
Originally Posted by akaye
If someone would post Baltar's dialog about the relevent stuff, I'd appriciate it, because as I said, the only part I recall is the part about detecting synthetic molecules which seems to put Baltar's theory more on my side, or at least not against me.

Wasn't that before he actually knew what he was doing?

But that would be easy to detect--just put it under a microscope.

__________________
"Oh no, the mother-child bond is impossible to replicate. Even by Agent Dalton and myself."
Rob Helmerichs is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 08-02-2005, 11:27 AM   #138 (Print)
Anubys
God? or Poser?
 
Anubys's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Fairfax Station, VA
Posts: 3,248
Quote:
Originally Posted by akaye
Please remind me of the context...was this is the many boomers talking to boomer scene, or one of the helo scenes?

AK

They were on Caprica...it was raining and Boomer and Helo were on the run...Helo said something about the cylons and she said something along the lines of "maybe they don't know any better...maybe they have to fight the way they have been indoctrinated..." she was really reaching out to Helo in a bit of despair and soul searching...

I wish I could remember the actual words...because I think she also mentioned "since childhood" or something along those lines...

Helo responded with something along the lines of "F them, they are toasters"...and she just dropped the subject...it was a very powerful scene and was not an accident...the Boomer models have been fighting and soul searching all the time...

__________________
That Anubys is a GENIUS! -- Rob Helmerichs
Anubys is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 08-02-2005, 11:28 AM   #139 (Print)
Anubys
God? or Poser?
 
Anubys's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Fairfax Station, VA
Posts: 3,248
Quote:
Originally Posted by tanstaafl
Just for the record, that's Billy, Dualla, Tyrol, Cally and Selix.


as you can tell; I am really, really, really bad with names

__________________
That Anubys is a GENIUS! -- Rob Helmerichs
Anubys is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 08-02-2005, 11:30 AM   #140 (Print)
IndyJones1023
Don't believe it
 
IndyJones1023's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 18,066
Send a message via AIM to IndyJones1023 Send a message via Yahoo to IndyJones1023
At this point, the writers have written things so that it can go either way with just a bit of explanation, though.

__________________
Common sense is a gift, not a given.
IndyJones1023 is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 08-02-2005, 11:32 AM   #141 (Print)
Anubys
God? or Poser?
 
Anubys's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Fairfax Station, VA
Posts: 3,248
Quote:
Originally Posted by IndyJones1023
At this point, the writers have written things so that it can go either way with just a bit of explanation, though.


...which makes it so much fun to argue about!

__________________
That Anubys is a GENIUS! -- Rob Helmerichs
Anubys is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 08-02-2005, 11:38 AM   #142 (Print)
IndyJones1023
Don't believe it
 
IndyJones1023's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 18,066
Send a message via AIM to IndyJones1023 Send a message via Yahoo to IndyJones1023
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anubys
...which makes it so much fun to argue about!

Does not!




__________________
Common sense is a gift, not a given.
IndyJones1023 is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 08-02-2005, 11:47 AM   #143 (Print)
Anubys
God? or Poser?
 
Anubys's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Fairfax Station, VA
Posts: 3,248
Quote:
Originally Posted by IndyJones1023
Does not!





I agree.

er...I mean...no...

oh well...I blew it...


__________________
That Anubys is a GENIUS! -- Rob Helmerichs
Anubys is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 08-02-2005, 11:55 AM   #144 (Print)
akaye
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anubys
...which makes it so much fun to argue about!


Definitely.

Which reminds me...if I should happen to dissapear from these forums shortly, in NO WAY should that be construed as me conceding to your arguments...it's just that if I don't stop discussing Cylon technology soon, and get back to developing real technology, my boss is going to start noticing my sudden drop in productivity....

BTW...Boomer: a Cylon. . . Baltar: a weasly, lying, traitor only out to save himself.... Adama: an honest, straight talking well informed military man.

If in conflict, I'll take Adama's guesses over those other two's 'statements of fact' anyday.

The only Cylon dialog I accept as truthful is the stuff between two Cylons with no humans around, like Doral and 6, or the whole bunch of them at the end of the mini.

AK
akaye is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 08-02-2005, 11:59 AM   #145 (Print)
akaye
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by akaye
BTW...Boomer: a Cylon. . .


On an unrelated note, was anyone else suprised that they revealed Boomer as a Cylon so early? Since Boomer is one of our beloved original series characters, I figured they'd leave her as a sleeper for several seasons. It's kinda cool, but if it ends up with us losing Boomer as a colonial good-guy, I'll be upset. MAybe she'll turn into the "good cylon," like Worf, or Teal'q.

AK
akaye is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 08-02-2005, 12:01 PM   #146 (Print)
Anubys
God? or Poser?
 
Anubys's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Fairfax Station, VA
Posts: 3,248
Quote:
Originally Posted by akaye
Definitely.

Which reminds me...if I should happen to dissapear from these forums shortly, in NO WAY should that be construed as me conceding to your arguments...


have you been around this forum? of COURSE if you disappear it means you've conceded...the person with the last post on any topic is the one that wins the argument!

that's the rule!

it's just the way things are...no need to fight it...

__________________
That Anubys is a GENIUS! -- Rob Helmerichs
Anubys is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 08-02-2005, 12:08 PM   #147 (Print)
Anubys
God? or Poser?
 
Anubys's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Fairfax Station, VA
Posts: 3,248
Quote:
Originally Posted by akaye
On an unrelated note, was anyone else suprised that they revealed Boomer as a Cylon so early? Since Boomer is one of our beloved original series characters, I figured they'd leave her as a sleeper for several seasons. It's kinda cool, but if it ends up with us losing Boomer as a colonial good-guy, I'll be upset. MAybe she'll turn into the "good cylon," like Worf, or Teal'q.

AK


I think the Helo/Boomer/baby story will linger as they all make it back to Galactica...

__________________
That Anubys is a GENIUS! -- Rob Helmerichs
Anubys is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 08-02-2005, 12:09 PM   #148 (Print)
akaye
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anubys
have you been around this forum? of COURSE if you disappear it means you've conceded...the person with the last post on any topic is the one that wins the argument!

that's the rule!

it's just the way things are...no need to fight it...


Hmm...I see....

<quickly setting up auto-reply bot to answer every post with "Hmm...I see...">
AK
akaye is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 08-02-2005, 12:10 PM   #149 (Print)
PJO1966
I'm baaaack!
 
PJO1966's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 5,569
I assume we'll be seeing Galactica-Boomer this week. We need to get the Chief's reaction to her actions.
PJO1966 is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 08-02-2005, 12:18 PM   #150 (Print)
latrobe7
anomaly
 
latrobe7's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 1,554
Quote:
Originally Posted by akaye
On an unrelated note, was anyone else suprised that they revealed Boomer as a Cylon so early? Since Boomer is one of our beloved original series characters, I figured they'd leave her as a sleeper for several seasons. It's kinda cool, but if it ends up with us losing Boomer as a colonial good-guy, I'll be upset. MAybe she'll turn into the "good cylon," like Worf, or Teal'q.

AK


I think they did it precisely because Boomer is a familiar name to us; like to say, "no one is safe". But I bet there is someone who is a sleeper that we don't suspect; it's fun to try to guess who (my guess this week is Roslin).

If Boomer becomes a "good-Cylon" - well, that would be a "shark-jump" moment for me. That just reeks of writers wanting their cake and to eat it too.
latrobe7 is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
 
Forum Jump
Thread Tools

Go Back  TiVo Community Archive2 > TiVo TV Talk > Now Playing - TV Show Talk

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:36 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.0.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
(C)opyright - All Rights Reserved. No information may be posted elsewhere without written permission.
TiVoŽ is a registered trademark of TiVo Inc. This site is not affiliated with TiVo Inc.


Spider History Index