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Old 08-07-2005, 08:53 AM   #61 (Print)
chronatog7
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Ellen cannot be in the head of Tigh. She has interacted with everyone aboard. Adama, Apollo, Baltar and the President. So by we have seen, Ellen is not in the head of Tigh, but it could be a real Cylon.
The interesting thin is that Adama brought her into Galactica. That's going to raise some question in the fleet if, in fact, she is a Cylon.

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Old 08-07-2005, 10:38 AM   #62 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by latrobe7
Well, that’s definitely a fresh take and I certainly respect your opinion, but I couldn’t disagree more.

In regard to the OS, I loved it too, but this is something different and I think better. I think the writing is far more sophisticated this time around with story arcs that stretch over several episodes and are multi-layered. The OS storylines where one episode morality plays that where almost as “camp” as, say, Batman – OK, maybe Buck Rodgers or the A-Team. Remember the episode where Starbuck (maybe Apollo) was stranded on an “Old West” planet, and he had to fight the “gunslinger” cylon? I think the cylon was even wearing a vest and bandana, maybe a cowboy hat. I’ll take the new series “soap opera” over that old cheese any day. NTTAWWT


The original series was a much different show aimed at a much different audience. It was a show that a 5 year old could follow well enough, but it had enough sophistication (ok, maybe JUST enough) for parents to watch it with their children too. BSG was a popular show in my house - well, for me and Dad anyway, I think Mom just tolerated it

I enjoy the new version a lot, but if I had a child under 13 or so, I don't think he'd be watching it with me. Not only is the content sometimes a bit too mature, IMO, I think the plot is complicated enough that most kids would lose interest waiting for the next (always too short) space battle.
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Old 08-07-2005, 11:00 AM   #63 (Print)
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I noticed the Jack Ruby/Oswald analogy too, which harkened back to the analogy of the Roslin swearing in/LBJ swearing in to me somehow... the camera work was similar (hmmm... 2nd SF show that has done this -- _Babylon 5_ had a swearing-in of a President that was conspicuously -- down to the shocked widow, the poses, the tight quarters, and the shaky camerawork -- the LBJ swearing-in). On BSG though it was interesting to me that Roslin was both the one being sworn in and, at least in my eyes, the shocked one.

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Old 08-07-2005, 11:06 AM   #64 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by getbak
This week's episode convinced me more than ever that Ellen is Tigh's "Six", whether she's a cylon or not. As has been suggested, I wouldn't be at all surprised if Ellen turns out to be a more-aged version of the Six model.

Did anyone else notice that when she left the room after Adama returned, she put her hand on the door frame as she walked out (and the shot lingered on it for a second)? Haven't we seen essentially that same shot with Six before?

I think it was the episode where "Dr. Godfrey" came aboard Galactica. I seem to remember a shot that followed Six up the stairs in Baltar's house on Caprica and as she rounded the corner, she put her hand on the wall (and the shot lingered on her hand for a second) and that was when she disappeared from Baltar's life and appeared aboard Galactica. I think they may have also used the same shot type when "Godfrey" walked around the corner and disappeared aboard Galactica. That may not be the correct episode, but I know we've seen a similar shot of Six, to the point where when Ellen did it, all I could think of was "she's Six".

It's an interesting type of shot because with Six, it was a seductive move, as if to say "I'm leaving now, but take my hand and follow me". On the other hand (no pun intended), with Ellen, it was hesitant, as if to say "I'm leaving now, but I want to hold on until the last possible moment".

If Ellen isn't a cylon, she certainly should be. In fact, I was half expecting that when they showed Adama's point-of-view of Tigh, that Tigh would be alone, talking to himself like Baltar often does.



or maybe the director, producers, and writers are very clever in showing you how similar humans and cylons really are...

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Old 08-07-2005, 11:32 AM   #65 (Print)
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Originally Posted by Anubys
or maybe the director, producers, and writers are very clever in showing you how similar humans and cylons really are...



Well, the cylons are modeled on humans so you would expect them to be similar. I'm sure the writers also are purposely writing in things to make viewers think that certain characters might be cylons. The writing on this show is very good. As I've mentioned up thread is I was struck just how similar Ellen and Six's behaviors are. For some reason it stood out in this episode. I doubt it's by accident.
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Old 08-07-2005, 11:52 AM   #66 (Print)
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Originally Posted by PJO1966
I loved the pyramid throwback to TOS... very cool.


One thing that bothered me was that I though pyramid was the card game they played on TOS. Wasn't the full contact basketball originally called triad?

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Old 08-07-2005, 12:25 PM   #67 (Print)
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Cylons and writing misdirection

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmymac
Well, the cylons are modeled on humans so you would expect them to be similar. I'm sure the writers also are purposely writing in things to make viewers think that certain characters might be cylons. The writing on this show is very good. As I've mentioned up thread is I was struck just how similar Ellen and Six's behaviors are. For some reason it stood out in this episode. I doubt it's by accident.


I've been thinking at times that Ellen is a Cylon but now I think she's not; however I think she has a hidden agenda -- perhaps something to do with Tom Zarek whom she seems to have connected with a few episodes back in season 1.

OTOH I think one of the characters we see a lot of *is* a Cylon ... by his/her proximity to some bad events. One of my co-workers pointed this out to me near the end of Season 1 and now looking back (and watching current events unfold) I think my co-worker is right.

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Old 08-07-2005, 12:40 PM   #68 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by getbak
This week's episode convinced me more than ever that Ellen is Tigh's "Six", whether she's a cylon or not. As has been suggested, I wouldn't be at all surprised if Ellen turns out to be a more-aged version of the Six model.
We're obviously meant to think that she may be a Cylon but I'm not swallowing the bait as it's too obvious.

I think what's going to happen is she's going to *not* be a Cyclon but she'll get busted for her manipulations and whatnot and will be *accused* of being a Cylon; maybe even tossed out the airlock (either literally or figuratively).

Maybe maybe she'll get tossed out of the airlock and we *won't* know for sure one way or the other whether it was justified. Tigh losing his wife to such a witchhunt could would be an interesting story arc.
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Old 08-07-2005, 12:45 PM   #69 (Print)
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I know I sound like a broken record...but Ellen is drawn to power like a moth to a flame...she's as human as can be...

Gaeta, on the other hand...

interesting how he covered for Duela (I hope I got the name right) isn't it? that is exactly what a spy would do...he allowed things to get worse for the fleet (and possibly starting a civil war) while gaining an advantage in the process ...

and now, she's indebted to him and owes him a favor...a master stroke if he were a cylon...

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Old 08-07-2005, 01:04 PM   #70 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anubys

Gaeta, on the other hand...

interesting how he covered for Duela (I hope I got the name right) isn't it? that is exactly what a spy would do...he allowed things to get worse for the fleet (and possibly starting a civil war) while gaining an advantage in the process ...

and now, she's indebted to him and owes him a favor...a master stroke if he were a cylon...


Yep, that's who I think is a Cylon too ... he's "screwed up" (isolated the fleet at the start of Season 2), been in the right position to get info... didn't he "ignore" (saying that he was thinking it was some upgrade and not questioning it) the Cylon listening device way back when (I think that was back in the Miniseries)?

Too bad, I really liked him. But this series is some of the truest to tragedy (in the classic Greek sense) I've ever seen in a TV series.

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Old 08-07-2005, 01:05 PM   #71 (Print)
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Oh and keep in mind that he was the one who put up the firewall ... which worked almost to the second (normal TV drama, or planned that way?) ... he pulled the plug but it still got through and disrupted things when the Toasters boarded.

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Old 08-07-2005, 01:17 PM   #72 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anubys
interesting how he covered for Duela (I hope I got the name right) isn't it? that is exactly what a spy would do...he allowed things to get worse for the fleet (and possibly starting a civil war) while gaining an advantage in the process ...

and now, she's indebted to him and owes him a favor...a master stroke if he were a cylon...



He could have done it because he thought it was the right thing to do. He doesn't seem too thrilled with Tigh's "leadership."

At this point, anybody could be a cylon and I'm sure the writers are purposely throwing in stuff to make viewers suspect various characters.
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Old 08-07-2005, 01:29 PM   #73 (Print)
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On good drama

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmymac
He could have done it because he thought it was the right thing to do. He doesn't seem too thrilled with Tigh's "leadership."

At this point, anybody could be a cylon and I'm sure the writers are purposely throwing in stuff to make viewers suspect various characters.


However, if it's well-written drama (and I think it is), there should be some line of evidence to back up the revelation when it happens -- in hindsight the character's behaviors to that point should, in hindsight, be explainable in a new light -- it shouldn't just feel like Ron Moore rolled a 20-sided die to decide who the Cylon was.

I've heard J. Michael Stracynski paraphrase Anton Chekov (I believe it was) who said that, in good drama, if a gun is shown in Act One it needs to be fired by Act 3; conversely, if a gun is fired in Act Three, it needs to have been shown by Act Two (obviously an oversimplification and, it being a paraphrase, perhaps the original quote was better, but I got the idea of what he was getting at).

As a counterpoint, some of the more poorly-written Star Trek (of various stripe) episodes featured a "we're all going to die in 5 minutes ... oh wait ... Geordi's visor (or Data's arm, or some part of Engineering) operates on the same Quantum Iambic Pentameter (or substitute your favorite three random words never strung together in that context before) Principle that the aliens are using to pin us/kill us, so we'll just reverse the polarity of ours..." now you've never heard of this before, it's just sort of pulled out of the writers' butts, it's not an established part of the show.

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Old 08-07-2005, 02:14 PM   #74 (Print)
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Another possibility is that Boomer fed Baltar bad info. We know she's conflicted. There could be any number of Cylons in the fleet.
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Old 08-07-2005, 02:19 PM   #75 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WinBear
I don't think different bodies so much as grown to different ages. They are very similar looking. In fact, it wouldn't take too much suspension of disbelief to think they are both Number Six at different ages.


I disagree. Other than being blonde and thin, they don't look much alike at all. Six is at least a good six inches taller than Ellen, has a completely different look to her face (not just a younger face) and has a much more voluptuous body.

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Old 08-07-2005, 02:26 PM   #76 (Print)
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I really wonder what's going to happen if Caprica Boomer comes back to "rescue" Helo and Starbuck and then returns to the fleet with them. It's clear the Chief still had feelings for Bondage Boomer and was horrified to hear that she was going to become a lab rat. He was obviously moved when she said she loved him before she died. Helo has already shown that he still has feelings for Caprica Boomer. Could be an interesting plot line if it comes to pass.

On another note, I think Billy is going be next Spylon. Why? Cuz there hasn't been a case of a human woman falling in love with a male Cylon yet. He and Dee are good candidates...

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Old 08-07-2005, 03:48 PM   #77 (Print)
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What about Galactic Boomer, do you think she was able to "jump" to another Cylon as she "died"?
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Old 08-07-2005, 04:01 PM   #78 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nowandthen
What about Galactic Boomer, do you think she was able to "jump" to another Cylon as she "died"?


I'm curious to see if Caprica Boomer will have all the knowledge of Galactica boomer.
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Old 08-07-2005, 04:11 PM   #79 (Print)
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This is huge.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chronatog7
As a side note, I just finished seeing the mini (again) and I was wondering
- What happened to Boxy?
- Helo's wound cleaned up pretty good in forty something days?
- I wonder who left the note about the other cylons to Adama?
- It was interesting that the person that certified the President was a Priest.


I was hoping someone would answer your third question by now. I too just finished watching the mini-series on DVD after originally only seeing it in the edited NBC version back in January or thereabouts. I can't remember if the "note left in Adama's room" scene was in that version as well and it just didn't register or if it wasn't in this edited version at all, but it was one of the biggest jaw-dropping moments in the entire mini-series for me.

Who left that note?!?!

I guess I could try and track down that scene again to see if Lee Adama ever went into the room in that scene or how long Commander Adama was in the cabin before Lee came knocking. Maybe it was just the notes left over from the last Cylon strategy session that Commander Adama was hosting in his cabin with 6, Boomer and several other Spylons in the fleet. I mean, his reaction wasn't exactly a "red alert" kind of reaction. Maybe he IS a cylon after all...

I also think it said "There are only 12 cylon models in the fleet" or something similar. What does "only" mean in this case and again, who left that note?!?!

Sorry if this has been answered already in a long-ago thread after the mini-series originally aired, but I couldn't find it. To risk sounding like even more of a broken record, does anyone have any theories as to who left and why, plus what it all means for the future?
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Old 08-07-2005, 04:18 PM   #80 (Print)
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Originally Posted by hereafter
I also think it said "There are only 12 cylon models in the fleet" or something similar. What does "only" mean in this case and again, who left that note?!?!

It said "There are only 12 Cylon models." Nothing about the fleet.

Also nothing about whether that's all Cylons or just Spylons, but didn't Six say something about that?

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Old 08-07-2005, 07:29 PM   #81 (Print)
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Isn't it funny how one little plot point that the writers changed from the last series (the human looking cylons) can have such a HUGE impact on the series itself? I mean, this is arguably the most significant change ans perhaps the largest stroke of genius I think the new writers could have had.

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Old 08-07-2005, 07:34 PM   #82 (Print)
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So Tighe thinks Chief is a Cylon because he associated with one. I wonder what the ramifications would be if Ellen were to be exposed to be a Cylon.

This is a very well written show. Can they send a writer or two to Atlantis?
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Old 08-07-2005, 08:02 PM   #83 (Print)
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Does anyone know what happened to the podcast for episode 203? I kept waiting for it but it is not there even now that 204 is.


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Old 08-07-2005, 08:09 PM   #84 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmymac
Or she could be one herself and programmed to destroy any other models that fall into human hands.



That was the first thing I thought of after the shock wore off but her obvious affection(obsession?) for the chief is just as believable an explanation..

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Old 08-07-2005, 08:25 PM   #85 (Print)
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*sigh* No more Bondage Boomer

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Old 08-07-2005, 08:53 PM   #86 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sbourgeo
One thing that bothered me was that I though pyramid was the card game they played on TOS. Wasn't the full contact basketball originally called triad?


In one of the podcasts I think he mentions that the writers got the two games confused and reversed.

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Old 08-07-2005, 09:57 PM   #87 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TivoGeezer
Does anyone know what happened to the podcast for episode 203? I kept waiting for it but it is not there even now that 204 is.


In the newest podcast (204), the executive producer who records them says he was on vacation last week and will come back to that episode at some point.
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Old 08-07-2005, 10:12 PM   #88 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fl_Gulfer
We think the show is going straight down the toilet, I think mostly due to Edward James Almost saying he would stay on the show if they started introducing alien Beings and stuff. There is no excitement and its just a soap opera, and the jumping around between story-lines. It will never live up to the original BSG I doubt if the show will last with the writers they have now. [Just our opinion so don't flame.]
Huh?

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Old 08-07-2005, 10:49 PM   #89 (Print)
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Quote:
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Isn't it funny how one little plot point that the writers changed from the last series (the human looking cylons) can have such a HUGE impact on the series itself? I mean, this is arguably the most significant change ans perhaps the largest stroke of genius I think the new writers could have had.


In all fairness to Galactica 1980, they had a two-parter with a human-looking Cylon ("The Night the Cylons Landed"...I think). The current writers have just taken it further.

Ellen is a great character- I really hated her in this episode. I think that Boomer's murderer (what's-her-face that Baltar "saved" on Kobol) is more likely to be a cylon. She refused to attack the Toasters on Kobol...she killed Boomer to prevent her from being properly examined ("psychological testing")...or to cause all of her memories to be downloaded to another Boomer copy....it's at least a possibility.

Added: Come to think of it, Six warned Baltar that his group would turn on each other on Kobol, and maybe it was because she knew that there was a Spylon among them, who would act to further her/the Cylon plans for Baltar.

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Old 08-08-2005, 12:34 AM   #90 (Print)
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Speaking of Star Trek loved the 'don't give me that technobable' line Tigh said to Baltar.
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