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Old 08-16-2005, 11:32 PM   #31 (Print)
MattDing
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I'll submit that although it's not about the actual post count number, the counts are the crux of the matter.

The arbitrary decision that these posts aren't worthy of granting you credit for a "real post" is what bothers me. Who are they to say that I didn't contribute substantially enough for credit. Again, if this was just the Sobriety thread, I'd be able to see it better. But there is a lot of compassion and thought put into posts in threads such as Thinking. So when someone's relative is sick or a member helps another member who's having a bad day, it's worth less than if I ask the SOAK about a good brand of tampons?

If that isn't ultimately divisive to the community, I'll be very, very surprised.
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Old 08-16-2005, 11:42 PM   #32 (Print)
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Yeah. What MattDing said.

I don't care about my post count. Slash if it you want... bring me down to 30, I wouldn't care. My participation here will be noted and remembered in other ways, not by some silly number.


That said, this unilateral move sends an insulting and contradictory message to the folks that have put a lot of heart into this place.


How very "efficient."
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Old 08-16-2005, 11:46 PM   #33 (Print)
Francesco
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Goodbye TCF.

Unless someone can give me a good reason to hang around, I'm not coming back.

It was nice to be here, and we put up with different points-of-view with an open mind sometimes, or with a grin-and-bear it attitude. We know that a privately owned public forum cannot please everybody all the time. And moderators are unpaid volunteers who try to use their best judgment, even if it puts them at odds with some members. Decisions in such a place often get made without discussion amongst the membership, those who support the site and look at its ads and refer new visitiors to it.

I have been visiting this forum since summer of 1999, and joined in early October 1999 when I had questions about my new TiVo. I formed a bond with this place that was very special to me, and as the years passed, this place became a part of my life - it's not often you make friends as close as the ones I've made here. Faces may have changed around here, some old-timers' posting tailed off while new members took the place by storm. A very vibrant online community by any measure.

And yet, somehow I feel that today it is less of a community than even yesterday.

I find myself asking, "What's the point?" I feel like I've been punched in the stomach by someone who doesn't want me - or my friends - to hang around. And you know what? It stinks. I see no reason to hang around where I'm not wanted.

Good bye. See you around, friends.

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Old 08-16-2005, 11:52 PM   #34 (Print)
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I think everyone needs to cool down a bit and read this:

http://www.shirky.com/writings/group_enemy.html

You'll quickly realize history repeats itself over and over and over...

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Old 08-16-2005, 11:58 PM   #35 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MattDing
I'll submit that although it's not about the actual post count number, the counts are the crux of the matter.

The arbitrary decision that these posts aren't worthy of granting you credit for a "real post" is what bothers me. Who are they to say that I didn't contribute substantially enough for credit. Again, if this was just the Sobriety thread, I'd be able to see it better. But there is a lot of compassion and thought put into posts in threads such as Thinking. So when someone's relative is sick or a member helps another member who's having a bad day, it's worth less than if I ask the SOAK about a good brand of tampons?

If that isn't ultimately divisive to the community, I'll be very, very surprised.


Well said. I agree with it being divisive.

Look at who is complaining here? Those with high post counts, some in excess of 10,000. Others who have been long time members, like myself, who have been here for 5 years.

These are the people that create the Birthday threads

These are the people who create the podcasts to help us all become more of a community.

These are the people that travel across the country to meet up with each other and proudly proclaim that we met online at this forum.

These are people who will open up their home for you if you are in their city.

These are people who will come to the rescue a fellow forum member if their car breaks down or their flight gets rerouted or cancelled.

They are, in my opinion, the heart and soul of the forum. Moving these threads here are making them feel like exiles.

And no matter how the announcement was worded or what the true motivation is I can say that it feels like we are being punished. Not a good feeling at all.

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Old 08-17-2005, 12:10 AM   #36 (Print)
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I can understand the desire of a separate Gaming forum but putting the "long" threads in there and out of Happy Hour seems like exiling them.

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Old 08-17-2005, 12:12 AM   #37 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saturn
I think everyone needs to cool down a bit and read this:

http://www.shirky.com/writings/group_enemy.html

You'll quickly realize history repeats itself over and over and over...


I'm sorry, I'm going to need an executive summary. That's a TOME you're pointing us to. One that does not engage the reader..

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Old 08-17-2005, 12:15 AM   #38 (Print)
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Maui makes a good point.

Let's not forget, people were annoyed with the "never-ending" beep thread, too.

(You just know it would have been banished to this "less annoying" ghetto before it reached it's 4th page.)

Meanwhile, that was one of the most beautiful (not to mention, amusing) displays of "community" this forum could ever hope to achieve, and it landed us a cover story article in a city newspaper:




David, I'm sure you've contemplated that this community has somehow grown beyond it's original goal. The Happy Hour has become unlike any other forum on the net, and you (currently) have a very unique, smart and creative blend of contributors and a captive audience.

Is it your intention to diffuse that growth, and alienate those that have participated with kind-hearted enthusiasm? I can't imagine that to be the case.

I know that running a forum of this size can be a very tricky business. It may even feel like you're grabbing a untamed tiger by the tail. But please know that unilaterally creating a dumping ground for these "never-ending" threads has upset some of the people that helped create the atmosphere that have made this place what it is today.

Seriously, it's not about post count. It's about being made to feel unwelcome.
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Old 08-17-2005, 12:54 AM   #39 (Print)
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I agree with leaving the "never-ending threads" in the HH where they belong. I also think that post counts should be consistent. Leaving them on in one part of the forum and off in another is just poor form. David, I know that you don't like post counts at all--why don't you just turn them off globally?

I am also curious as to why we think that a forum dedicated to "fun and games" is going to work this time around when the Funny Farm (the precurser to our beloved HH) was such a miserable failure.

But mostly, I'm just sad that so many folks are hurt by this change. I don't typically participate in the meta-threads, but I know that folks that do are feeling unwelcome in the HH. And that's not cool.

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Old 08-17-2005, 01:06 AM   #40 (Print)
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I always try to welcome the new people in HH. I guess I wasn't doing a good enough job. Sigh.
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Old 08-17-2005, 01:09 AM   #41 (Print)
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Abolish post counts if people are uptight about them... I do see how people can think some members post drivel and nonsense for the sole purpose of padding theirs. SO mayhap turning them off will reveal that we just enjoy seeing one anothers drivel and nonsense.

As for a seperate forum... I think one dedicated for fun and games is fine.... Put in an arcade, give us some Pong and some Space Invaders... But what does that have to do with the length of any particular thread? If the thread is of general interest (or entertainment) and isn't a game but rather an outpouring of enjoyment of one anothers personalities... Why harm does it do being left where it was born and thrived??

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Old 08-17-2005, 01:11 AM   #42 (Print)
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Is this really a "games area", like how was that new xbox game, or is meant to be a games area, like forum games, like guessing what movie, etc...

I don't think it's meant to be about video games.

Also, doesn't a 5000 post thread take up the same amount of room on your screen than a 1 post thread?

-smak-

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Old 08-17-2005, 01:14 AM   #43 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maui
Well said. I agree with it being divisive.

Look at who is complaining here? Those with high post counts, some in excess of 10,000. Others who have been long time members, like myself, who have been here for 5 years.

These are the people that create the Birthday threads

These are the people ....

Better than I said it in the Goodbye thread. Excellent post, Maui.

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Old 08-17-2005, 03:16 AM   #44 (Print)
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Will YAMM threads be moved here, thereby dropping the post count of the author to below YAMM levels?

There's something deliciously enjoyable about that. This forum might not be so bad after all...
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Old 08-17-2005, 03:51 AM   #45 (Print)
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I for one welcome our new "Area for fun & games" overlords.

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Old 08-17-2005, 05:54 AM   #46 (Print)
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And to take the Drinking out of the Happy Hour!? What gives...

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Old 08-17-2005, 08:15 AM   #47 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maui
Look at who is complaining here? Those with high post counts, some in excess of 10,000. Others who have been long time members, like myself, who have been here for 5 years.

These are the people that create the Birthday threads

These are the people who create the podcasts to help us all become more of a community.

These are the people that travel across the country to meet up with each other and proudly proclaim that we met online at this forum.

These are people who will open up their home for you if you are in their city.

These are people who will come to the rescue a fellow forum member if their car breaks down or their flight gets rerouted or cancelled.

They are, in my opinion, the heart and soul of the forum. Moving these threads here are making them feel like exiles.

And no matter how the announcement was worded or what the true motivation is I can say that it feels like we are being punished. Not a good feeling at all.


But based on what you said here, Maui, I get a bad feeling about it. I read your post and immediately came to the conclusion that you say the people with high post counts or "years of service" mean more to TCF than the rest of us. I am not sure if that was the intent, but that is the impression I have. There are many of us who try and exhibit the same characteristics as you state with far less posts count or years of service. I am not wanting to get in a debate on the "clique" factor, but I honestly feel there are times there is one.

And I am NOT one of the people who lobbied for the changes...

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Old 08-17-2005, 08:29 AM   #48 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chapper1
And I am NOT one of the people who lobbied for the changes...

Hey, can I join your clique?


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Old 08-17-2005, 08:33 AM   #49 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dswallow
Hey, can I join your clique?




Sure Doug!!!

Maybe now I will have a euphoric feeling of self worth...


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Old 08-17-2005, 08:34 AM   #50 (Print)
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Chapper,

I can see why you would think that by the way I worded that but it was not my intent. I do not believe anyone is more important than anyone else. And most that know me personally know that I downplay my importance or value almost obsessively.

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Old 08-17-2005, 08:35 AM   #51 (Print)
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So when I have a really brilliant and post-inspiring thread idea, should I just post it here since it will soon be really long (and annoying to some)? Or do I post it back there and wait to hope it gets moved here?

I liked the long threads back in HH, personally.

I didn't PM a moderator about that, but since our opinions can change things, I'd like to cast my vote for having them back there.

I certainly wasn't in any clique, but I did enjoy seeing what people were thinking and drinking.

And the beep? My favorite thread ever.
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Old 08-17-2005, 08:37 AM   #52 (Print)
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Hi All...

Thanks for the thoughts. Here are some answers that may or may not help some of you.

The area was made for over time we have received requests asking for a special thread game forum. More or less asking for one place to stop for each of the game thread. It was a good idea but we did not do it for quite some time for their were not a lot of them happening.

As of late we received a few more requests and then some people saying "Up's up with some of these people and these long threads that are just nothing." "One word posts?". "Post Count Padding?". All in all the choice was made, seeing we had enough gaming going on, to start an area where members can stop in and enter into the fun. Even new members can see a fun game forum and enter in.

On post counts, well, that was my choice. Simple fact, some people DO LOOK at post counts as a way to judge others in a post they may read. This is more so for new users to the site. If you do not think people do not look at it and judge by it, well, you are sadly mistaken. A lot of you members with higher level post counts have not only have them that high from actual posts that have been made over time, but from one word posts in a lot of these thread games that more or less mean nothing in the scheme of things. So with the knowledge of how people view post counts, mostly new users, I made the choice to not let them happen in this area. Sure I can remove them...but let me tell you that you will then see people at each other on that issue to. Not matter what I do, ALWAYS will have people who do not like it.

To the people who say "Thats it' I'm gone!". I feel bad for you for to leave a site over a new forum area and post counts?!?!? To leave a site for you do not agree with a change like this. I guess it is not the site you will hurt, but others that may like you.

Remember, I do things on this site that I feel is right for the site. I always have on this site and others that I operate. Each one is doing very, very well as you can see if you stop in on them. Some of you come off as I am doing this to hurt the site. Hello...Why would I?

Sorry...Going to be blunt now which is not like me usually. Want to make the choices and pay the bills that come with a site like this? Please, someone make me a 6 figure offer. For what some of you fail to remember is that I am the one that put my family on the line when I run sites like this. You all, as some of you so threat, can always go to another site. I can not. I also am sorry to say that I feel that some of you think the site is alive because of you or just some of you. If you really look at the numbers, the the site could loose 100's of people and would continue. Would it be different without some of you....sure it would. I also would miss some of you. Would it fail though? Nope. People would still come to the site. People would still make friends. And people would still hang around after they talked about TiVo. (The reason they come in the first place for the most part.) (Average New Registrations Per Day (30 day average): 72)

All in all, thanks for the thoughs on this. I do hope the section does play a part on the site as a place to stop in for some fun. I should, for I see all the thread moved here, most have been posted to today.

Thank you all for listening. I really did not mean to rant.

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Old 08-17-2005, 08:40 AM   #53 (Print)
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Maui,
I have seen references on how you conduct yourself and I feel if there were more people like that around, we would be in great shape. Maybe since you were the one who posted that, you were in the line of fire, so to speak. But I know of instances where people have been looking for volunteers to participate in podcasts or the like and new posters, such as myself, were among the first to repsond or IM the OP. Later to find out that spot seemed filled with the same people that always seem to dot the TCF landscape. That gives me an indication that there was some "cliquish" qualities in play...

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Old 08-17-2005, 08:43 AM   #54 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chapper1
But based on what you said here, Maui, I get a bad feeling about it. I read your post and immediately came to the conclusion that you say the people with high post counts or "years of service" mean more to TCF than the rest of us.

They don't mean more, but they certainly are the ones that build that sense of community a little more than others. I hardly posted for 3 1/2 years but I read the forum most every day along with the my regular news. I came to know these people, their humor, their squabbles, their achievements, their offbeat thoughts. It was because of these threads, though I didn't participate in many of the long ones, that I started posting more and made a few friends along the way.

The frequency of their posts does add to the community simply because you've come to expect to see them there. Its familiar and it's nice and they do build it more than others.

Sure there are people who get on each other's nerves but I've never met a larger, more open group of people, both online and in person.

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Old 08-17-2005, 09:20 AM   #55 (Print)
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I think it's natural for people to bond with others they are most familiar with...what's wrong with that?

I just went to my first meet and there are clearly people there who've been with each other many times and get along very well...but newcomers were welcomed and treated with love and warmth...that is how everyone behaves in all these threads...

maybe I don't belong to a "clique" so I'm missing the ramifications of this...but what difference does the location of a thread makes? I don't like the new forum because now I have to look in one more place for an interesting thread...

and why are people's avatars now missing?



p.s. terrible post...thoughts are all over the place...I guess I'm very confused...

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Old 08-17-2005, 09:31 AM   #56 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anubys
p.s. terrible post...thoughts are all over the place...I guess I'm very confused...

Maybe we can get a subforum for those so at least they'll be more organized.
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Old 08-17-2005, 10:25 AM   #57 (Print)
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David,

I think the biggest complaint is the Never-ending threads being moved here. I am sure there is some post padding happening in them but there are just as many, no, probably far more legitimate posts in a thread like "What Are You Thinking" than there are post padding posts.

It appears that by moving those threads here you have thrown the baby out with the bathwater so to speak and have punished many for the crimes of the few. Nobody sets out to create a neverending thread. Based on the fickle nature of the forum it is impossible to predict which ones will take off and which will not.

You say that people pay attention to post counts and I believe they do also, even if they do not want to admit it. I think that if there is one thing I can not be accused of in my 5 plus years here it would be that I was a post whore. I lost 300 plus posts and I can easily live with that but the manner in which I lost them insinuates that I was part of some thread whose sole purpose was post padding or was part of a thread that was more fluff than any other thread in Happy Hour.

Again, my position is that by including the never ending threads you have thrown the net too wide and have punished many who never think about post padding

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Old 08-17-2005, 10:41 AM   #58 (Print)
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So now we have a "Fun House" and a "Happy Hour"... how in the world do we decide what goes where?

Does the Happy Hour mean all posts will be available for an hour then closed or moved to the Fun House?

This seems crazy having two "off topic" type forums.
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Old 08-17-2005, 11:05 AM   #59 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfer2003
So now we have a "Fun House" and a "Happy Hour"... how in the world do we decide what goes where?

Does the Happy Hour mean all posts will be available for an hour then closed or moved to the Fun House?

This seems crazy having two "off topic" type forums.


Well, I think there really is a difference between what's intended for the two forums, and there is confusion by the two titles. But I think "Fun House" is a fairly good name, but maybe a better name would be "Fun and Games House". "Happy Hour" maybe isn't such a good name. Both are off topic forums, but Happy Hour is more than just happy talk. There are lots of SOAK and help threads in there. Also, relaying of interest life experiences.

Well, Happy Hour maybe isn't too bad a name, but not all the threads there are happy.

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Old 08-17-2005, 11:06 AM   #60 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfer2003
So now we have a "Fun House" and a "Happy Hour"... how in the world do we decide what goes where?

Strange thing is, I have previously inadvertently called the "Happy Hour" forum the "Happy House" forum.
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